Was CE399 "Planted"?

[Ken Davies]

My apologies, it is Mr. Josephs! 

[David Josephs]

KD - 

Taking it a step further, for that bullet to match C2766's barrel, it was fired from C2766 at some point.

When and where?

The "bullet(s)" brought to Frazier could have been place-holders for the rifle that would arrive later, from which they could fire a shot and retrieve the bullet... although that does fell a bit too thought out at this point.  CE399 would already have to be in Rowley's possession to insure a connection between the rifle, the shot and the man.  
C2766 was used to create this bullet in the weeks/months prior.  Would C2766 have shown up in Vallee's arsonal?      

And if the bullet in Parkland was not ce399 as we know it, the bullet described either fell out of the men or their clothes... or it was wrongly planted.  

The SBT had not yet been created.  If we agree a bullet existed at Parkland, we also must agree that bullet is gone.  

If that bullet was pointed as remembered it would suggest a 2nd shooter, the Castro-backed conspiracy... Phase 1 of Peter Scott's explanation. When that was so quickly changed to the Lone shooter...  we see the remnants in the evidence of them removing the 2nd of who knows how many shooters...  by removing the bullet evidence as well as the shot from the front evidence in the autopsy we cleanly and neatly have ALL the evidence pointing to our man Oswald.  

btw.. Chief Rowley with CE399 given to Todd for the FBI also has an 8mm "film" taken by Zapruder before anyone else in DC does. This is a full 20 hours before the NPIC has it Saturday with Dino B. and 2 days before SA Bill Smith delivers a 16mm version to the NPIC, again, but this time to Homer and team.

If they would look us in the eye and tell us CE399 did what it did, what could be done to the film with 20 extra hours?

Oh, The Evidence...

[Michael Clark]

Ok guys, instead of picking on the funny accent of a suburban upstate New Yorker, who didn't grow-up around guns, can you speak to my point about a round-nosed bullet being an "odd-ball" round (or should I say "Aught-ball" )? That was my point and, as I said, I'm no expert.

Cheers,

Michael

[Micah Mileto]

Found this video of staff from the National Archives showing the actual container used to carry CE 399. The top of the container has it's own set of written initials.

 

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 2/27/2017 at 7:13 PM, David Josephs said:

KD - 

Taking it a step further, for that bullet to match C2766's barrel, it was fired from C2766 at some point.

When and where?

The "bullet(s)" brought to Frazier could have been place-holders for the rifle that would arrive later, from which they could fire a shot and retrieve the bullet... although that does fell a bit too thought out at this point.  CE399 would already have to be in Rowley's possession to insure a connection between the rifle, the shot and the man.  
C2766 was used to create this bullet in the weeks/months prior.  Would C2766 have shown up in Vallee's arsonal?      

And if the bullet in Parkland was not ce399 as we know it, the bullet described either fell out of the men or their clothes... or it was wrongly planted.  

The SBT had not yet been created.  If we agree a bullet existed at Parkland, we also must agree that bullet is gone.  

If that bullet was pointed as remembered it would suggest a 2nd shooter, the Castro-backed conspiracy... Phase 1 of Peter Scott's explanation. When that was so quickly changed to the Lone shooter...  we see the remnants in the evidence of them removing the 2nd of who knows how many shooters...  by removing the bullet evidence as well as the shot from the front evidence in the autopsy we cleanly and neatly have ALL the evidence pointing to our man Oswald.  

btw.. Chief Rowley with CE399 given to Todd for the FBI also has an 8mm "film" taken by Zapruder before anyone else in DC does. This is a full 20 hours before the NPIC has it Saturday with Dino B. and 2 days before SA Bill Smith delivers a 16mm version to the NPIC, again, but this time to Homer and team.

If they would look us in the eye and tell us CE399 did what it did, what could be done to the film with 20 extra hours?

Oh, The Evidence...

David,

I agree that the bullet found by Darrell Tomlinson at Parkland was NOT CE 399. As to whether the original bullet was planted, well remember that Tomlinson found it on a stretcher that could not reasonably be associated with either Connally or Kennedy. It was likely on the stretcher of a small boy who was admitted to the ER shortly before the limo arrived. This little boy had suffered a pretty bloody injury from a playground accident, as I recall. In any event, the way Tomlinson described it, the bullet he found was tucked under the mattress and emerged only after he bumped that stretcher with another stretcher. 

It seems impossible that the Tomlinson bullet could have wound up tucked under the stretcher of either man if it just fell out of their clothes or their bodies.

No, I think it is safe to say that bullet, whatever it was, was planted. 

While we all focus on Jack Ruby's probable presence at Parkland at that moment, Harold Weisberg wrote long ago that an anti-Castro Cuban activist, one of the most vehement anti-JFK Cubans in Dallas, was working as an orderly at Parkland. Predictably, the FBI did nothing to identify this man, let alone question him.

Someone planted that bullet, and it was switched later by the FBI for CE 399. (The fact that no one in Dallas identified the TSBD rifle on Friday afternoon as the infamous 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano is relevant. That rifle was not identified as the MC until after it was in the hands of the FBI, late Friday night/early Saturday morning. Was it switched too? Oh, you betcha!)

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

...remember that Tomlinson found it on a stretcher that could not reasonably be associated with either Connally or Kennedy.

When evaluating Darrell Tomlinson's statements and interviews over the years, it couldn't be more obvious that he really had no idea which stretcher he found the bullet on. In one interview, he says he found the bullet on the Connally stretcher; in another interview, he says it was the other stretcher.

Tomlinson's best answer (the one he gave Arlen Specter in 1964) is this one....

"I'm not sure."

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/10/Darrell C. Tomlinson Interviews

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

I agree that the bullet found by Darrell Tomlinson at Parkland was NOT CE 399. As to whether the original bullet was planted, well remember that Tomlinson found it on a stretcher that could not reasonably be associated with either Connally or Kennedy. It was likely on the stretcher of a small boy who was admitted to the ER shortly before the limo arrived. This little boy had suffered a pretty bloody injury from a playground accident, as I recall. In any event, the way Tomlinson described it, the bullet he found was tucked under the mattress and emerged only after he bumped that stretcher with another stretcher. 

It seems impossible that the Tomlinson bullet could have wound up tucked under the stretcher of either man if it just fell out of their clothes or their bodies.

No, I think it is safe to say that bullet, whatever it was, was planted. 

While we all focus on Jack Ruby's probable presence at Parkland at that moment, Harold Weisberg wrote long ago that an anti-Castro Cuban activist, one of the most vehement anti-JFK Cubans in Dallas, was working as an orderly at Parkland. Predictably, the FBI did nothing to identify this man, let alone question him.

Someone planted that bullet, and it was switched later by the FBI for CE 399. (The fact that no one in Dallas identified the TSBD rifle on Friday afternoon as the infamous 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano is relevant. That rifle was not identified as the MC until after it was in the hands of the FBI, late Friday night/early Saturday morning. Was it switched too? Oh, you betcha!)

I agree with this. Good analysis. I wonder if there is more information about this "anti-Castro Cuban activist" supposedly working at Parkland that day. I also wonder if the bullet first found was intended to match up with the Mauser apparently first found on the sixth floor before it transformed into the Mannlicher-Carcano.

[Micah Mileto]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

When evaluating Darrell Tomlinson's statements and interviews over the years, it couldn't be more obvious that he really had no idea which stretcher he found the bullet on. In one interview, he says he found the bullet on the Connally stretcher; in another interview, he says it was the other stretcher.

Tomlinson's best answer (the one he gave Arlen Specter in 1964) is this one....

"I'm not sure."

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/10/Darrell C. Tomlinson Interviews

 

Tomlinson's statements were 50/50, but O. P. Wright broke the tie. Wright told Richard Johnsen and Josiah Thompson it was the other stretcher.

[Paul Jolliffe]

9 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

I agree with this. Good analysis. I wonder if there is more information about this "anti-Castro Cuban activist" supposedly working at Parkland that day. I also wonder if the bullet first found was intended to match up with the Mauser apparently first found on the sixth floor before it transformed into the Mannlicher-Carcano.

Here is Harold Weisberg's testimony to the Grand Jury in New Orleans on April 28, 1967 (as part of the Clay Shaw case.) On page 58 of the attachment (page 56 of the printed pages) Weisberg talks about  Walter McChann, a Catholic priest and spiritual adviser to the Cuban community in Dallas, and a friend to Sylvia Odio. Weisberg testified that McChann gave the name of the anti-Castro Cuban who worked as an orderly at Parkland to the FBI, but they buried it. 

According to Weisberg, this Cuban "of very bad character who is blackmailing other Cubans, extorting money from them, threatening them, and you know the story of this bullet - and couldn't possibly have the history - it was found in the hospital - by an orderly at the hospital - and Liebeler didn't even ask for the man's name. Father McChann was never called as a witness. Nobody ever said give us the payroll list of Parkland Hospital and Father McChann was given this list of names. . . .  Mrs. Castorr - said oh yes, I think I remember something about that, I think they had to get rid of him and ship him back to Miami . . ." 

(Weisberg hints that this unidentified Cuban was probably Sergio Arcacha Smith, and I agree with him.)

Denny, Weisberg's testimony was recorded verbatim, so it reads a little incoherently, as does any literal written transcription of a conversation. But if you go through it, you will find some gems.

For example, Weisberg highlights the role played by the uninvestigated "Col. Caster", a man who was "keeping the Cuban people stirred up", according to L.C. Connell, a social worker in Dallas who was well - acquainted with Sylvia Odio and Father McChann. (As usual, neither the FBI nor the Secret Service was able to identify, locate and interview this man. After all, they were only investigating the murder of the president - they couldn't be expected to use the phone book, could they? No, instead an ordinary housewife from Oklahoma, Mrs. Shirley Martin, was able to do what neither the FBI nor the Secret Service could accomplish: find the mysterious "Col. Caster.")

At the end of his book "Oswald in New Orleans" (another gem well worth slogging through) Weisberg actually interviewed L. Robert Castorr in Washington D.C. Castorr denied having anything to do with the above, and left open the possibility that his name had been used by others. Weisberg did not reach any firm conclusions in print. One of my regrets is that in my phone conversations with him in his final decade, I did not ask Weisberg about Castorr. 

I am hopeful (but not optimistic) that in his papers at Hood College - now somewhat accessible at the Harold Weisberg Archive - he left behind some written clue.

https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/garr/grandjury/pdf/Weisberg.pdf

[Steve Thomas]

19 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

 

At the end of his book "Oswald in New Orleans" (another gem well worth slogging through) Weisberg actually interviewed L. Robert Castorr in Washington D.C. Castorr denied having anything to do with the above, and left open the possibility that his name had been used by others. Weisberg did not reach any firm conclusions in print. One of my regrets is that in my phone conversations with him in his final decade, I did not ask Weisberg about Castorr.

Paul,

 

Here are some notes I have about Castorr. He is one of those Reserve Colonels that have made this case so interesting to me:

Merrill's Marauders, China/Burma connection, oil and gas industry, anti-Castro Cubans... the list goes on.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch from St. Louis, Missouri

October 2, 1967 Page 16.

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/142274942/

 

The Federal Government is attempting "to make you a scapegoat for . . . high food prices, " members of the Missouri Retail Grocers Association were told today. ' L. Robert Castorr, assistant to the president of the National Federation of Independent Business, told the grocers at their convention here that consumers are "paying through the nose because of the labor and tax policies" of the Government He urged grocers to place advertisements indicating the exact amount of money taken by taxes for each item sold. Castorr also urged the independent grocers here to oppose "the advent of the cooperative store." He said that the co-operative concept is ...”

 

The Express from Lock Haven, Pennsylvania ·

November 18, 1969

Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/5749791/

 

The formation of National Taxation, Inc., was announced today as a non-profit organization of taxpayers and taxpayer organizations with the declared aim of providing a voice in Washington for "the guy who pays the bill." Elected president was Col. L. Robert Castorr, retired army officer and former executive of the United States Chamber of Commerce and regional supervisor of the National Federation of Independent Business. Castorr said the so-called revolt of the taxpayers is "the greatest grassroots movement of our times." Taxpayer pressure cannot bring instant tax relief, he said in a statement, but "can slow the spending spree and over a period of time can restore fiscal responsibility." Taxaction's 18-member board of governors includes Dr. Emerson P. Schmidt, former chief economist of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce; E. Edward Stephens, tax lawyer and columnist; Arthur B. Brandt Jr., Bloomfield Hill, Mich., Dr. William Steuart McBirnie, Glendale, Calif., and Dr. Hans Senn- holz, economist at Grove City College, Pa.

The Cincinnati Enquirer from Cincinnati, Ohio

June 23, 1966

Page 23

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/104334059/

 

WASHINGTON A National Federation of Independent Business official Monday charged that the National Commission on Food Marketing has failed-in its authorized purpose to find why food prices go up while farmers get less of the increase. L. Robert Castorr, retired Air Force colonel and assistant to the president of the organization, in a prepared address before the Pennsylvania Retail Grocer's Association, has likened the commission's task to a certain bungling government researcher. The researcher, Colonel Castorr . said, trained an eight-legged flea to Jump over a matchstick on command. Then, progressively pulled off a pair of legs of the flea, until the flea failed to respond when told to jump. The researcher raised his voice, but without response from the flea. "So this staff researcher then prepared a report to the Congress stating that fleas with only two legs are completely stone deaf," Colonel Castorr said. . He warned the grocers to beware of efforts to make the retailers ' "scapegoats" in the controversy over the spread in prices (between what the) consumer pays and the farmer receives. He noted that 42 states levy inventory taxes, declaring that the "farmer is not told that such a tax increases the spread between farm and consumer price. The housewife is not told this increases her grocery bill. It is quite doubtful that the National Commission on Food Marketing will explain this either." In addition, Colonel Castorr contended that the commission report which Is due July 1, would not explain that in a unionized food store it may cost the store one-third as much as it gets for the can of food in order to pay a boy union wages to stock the goods on shelves. Critical of the "truth in packaging" proposals, Colonel Castorr suggested .placing on packaging the tax and labor costs as well, efforts to end "special deal packs" from "monoply-minded manufacturers."

From David Boylan in the Education Forum 5/18/2006

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/6807-john-singlaub-and-the-chinese-connection/&page=2

John Singlaub and the Chinese Connection

LUCIEN CONEIN

Lucien Emile Conein (born, November 29, 1919), a veteran of the French Foreign Legion, described his military career: "Starting as a recruit I September 1941, was advanced to a Non-Commissioned Officer in 1942, and later chosen for Officer Candidate School February 1943. Graduated and commissioned 2nd Lieutenant February (OSS) on July 26, 1943. Served European Theater of Operations October 1943, to December 1944. Parachuted behind enemy lines in civilian clothes, France, August 1944. Transferred China, Burma, India Theater, February 1945. Assigned German occupation February 1947 to August 1953, as an intelligence officer. 1953 to 1956 served as U.S. Military advisory group, Vietnam, as intelligence and operations officer."

The Mexia Daily News from Mexia, Texas · Page 1

November 7, 1957

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/11876796/

Mexia Man Receives Appointment Earl McKeilh, (center) is pictured with L. Robert Castorr, of Dallas, Southwestern division manager of the National Federation of Independent Business, and Si N. Meadow, district manager of the organization from Austin.

“Earl McKeith was coming out of a local bank Tuesday and came face to face with a man who was one of his fellow Army officers in the early thirties. Earl didn't recognize him but L. Robert Castorr, of Dallas, immediately grabbed Earl's arm and said "I know you." Mr. Castorr. who is now a- colonel in the Active Reserve serving as inspector and advisor to the 90th Division in Texas., and Mr. McKeith, a Reserve. Army captain, were first lieutenants when they served with each other in the Second Infantry Division. They last saw each other in 1930. Col. Castorr served with Merrill's Marauders in Burma during World War II.” “Mr. Meadow was accompanied to Mexia by L. Robert Castorr, the Southwestern division manager for the National Federation of Independent Business. Mr. Castorr formerly served in the U. S. Army with Mr. McKeilh.”

From David Boylan in the Education Forum May 18, 2006

 

 

 

 

“And the Burma connection. I had some info (but lost it ) that Nestor Sanchez was also in Burma. Here's some notes on two others that were in Burma:

Harold Weisberg’s Grand Jury testimony on the History matters website. – Col Castorr. Harold describes Castorr as “political agent who is keeping the Cuban people stirred up.” And “Father McChann tells the Secret Service that Col. Castorr’s actions are consistent with that of an intelligence agent.” Castorr was L. Robert Castorr of Dallas, Texas and Arlington, Virginia (and Maryland)

Harold also noted that “Col. Castorr who was a friend of General Walker told a mutual friend that he was involved in a sideline of running guns to Cuba – a profitable sideline – and this is all part of the Odio story.””

Posted by Greg Parker in the Reopen the Kennedy Case Forum May 30, 2010

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t57-the-parkland-cuban-colonel-l-robert-castorr

“Although she (Lucille Connell) did not mention the Parkland Cuban, she did pass on the information that General Edwin Walker and Colonel [Robert] Castorr had been "trying to arouse the feelings of Cuban refugees in Dallas against the Kennedy administration policies." Harold Weisberg picked up on these leads in the 1960s.”

Governor Price Confers with L. Robert Castorr... with photo (1958)

The Denison Press (Denison, Tex.), Vol. 30, No. 52, Ed. 1 Friday, June 20, 1958 Page: 4 of 22
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth329083/m1/4/
 

May 8, 1998November
20, 1998





January 27, 1998December 31, 1998

Registrations by Lobbyists

An article from CQ Almanac 1970

Following is a list of persons and organizations that filed lobby registrations from Dec. 23, 1969 (the date of adjournment of the First Session of the 91st Congress) to Jan. 3, 1971 (the date of adjournment of the Second Session of the 91st Congress)

 

NATIONAL TAX ACTION INC., 1033 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. Filed 1/16/70.

Registered for itself.

Legislative interest—“Appropriations, taxation and economy in Government. In general, opposed to increased spending without more economy. Favor less international commitments, and less taxation.”

Expenses—“Anticipated, $100 each for two agents, totaling $200 monthly to cover expenses.”

Lobbyist—L. Robert Castorr, president, same address as employer. Filed 1/16/70.

Legislative interest—“Economy in Government.”

Compensation and expenses—“Anticipated $100 monthly to cover expenses and fees.”

Previous registrations by lobbyist—None.

Lobbyist—Robert M. Bartell, vice president, same address as employer. Filed 1/16/70.

Legislative interest—“Economy in Government.”

Compensation and expenses—“Anticipated $100 monthly to cover expenses and fees.

Previous registrations by lobbyist—None.

These were the first three registrants for the employer.

Washington Post Obituary Sunday, April 10, 2005; Page C09

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40644-2005Apr9_4.html?noredirect=on

L. Robert Castorr, 92, a retired executive with a number of business groups and a retired colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve, died April 7 after a heart attack at National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda.

Mr. Castorr, a resident of Bethesda, was born in Detroit and enlisted in the Army Reserve at age 18 in 1930. He served in the Civilian Conservation Corps for a year, then after further military training and education moved to active duty in 1940.

During World War II, he served in North Africa and in the Burma campaign as an infantry combat commander. After the war ended, he briefly served as chief of staff and spokesman for Gen. George C. Marshall at the Pentagon. He left active duty in 1947 but stayed in the reserves until 1973.

Mr. Castorr worked as a field manager for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and as national field manager and assistant to the president for the National Federation of Independent Business, handling legislation and public relations, through the 1960s. He later moved to the Small Business Administration, where he was assistant to its president and oversaw its program for retired executives. In later years, he worked for himself as an international trade consultant.

Mr. Castorr was an official with the World Conference of Mayors during the 1980s. He served as an officer with the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, the Knights of Malta, and was a member of the Order of St. Stanislas, a philanthropic organization.

His first two marriages, to Dorothy Castorr and Gertrude A. Castorr, ended in divorce.

Survivors include his wife of 30 years, Dorothy Vasco Castorr of Bethesda; two sons from his second marriage, William Castorr of Battle Creek, Mich., and John Castorr of Dallas; two brothers; five grandchildren; and seven great-grandchildren.

 

Steve Thomas

 

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Paul,

 

Here are some notes I have about Castorr. He is one of those Reserve Colonels that have made this case so interesting to me:

Merrill's Marauders, China/Burma connection, oil and gas industry, anti-Castro Cubans... the list goes on.

 

Thanks Steve. So Castorr was an Army Reserve intelligence spook who spent a lot of time in the 50's in Vietnam. His job in Dallas - to keep the anti-Castro Cubans stirred up -  probably didn't require a whole lot of work on his part: they hated Castro anyway. I bet he was more of a liaison, reporting back to Army Intelligence than a provocateur. 

I mentioned Castorr earlier not as a particularly promising path to the conspirators, but instead as an example of the failure of both the FBI and the Secret Service to do any real digging. They didn't know about Castorr because they didn't want to know.

As to the main point of this thread - was CE 399 planted? - well, we now know that the HSCA had very strong suspicions that an unidentified Secret Service agent planted the bullet!

"Further development of Pool's testimony may confirm that a Secret Service agent was for a significant period of time close enough to the elevator to plant a bullet; may lead to an identification of that agent; and will reveal the superficiality of the Warren Commission's approach (N.B. 6 H 131, where Tomlinson switches briefly from I to we; no one asked him what he meant by we)."

All five pages of this document from the Weisberg Archives are worth reading in full:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/P Disk/Pool Nathan/Item 01.pdf

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe