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Tim Gratz

Who was QJ/WIN

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2 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Paul,

 

This was posted by Bill Simpich in the Education Forum on June 29, 2014:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/10942-who-was-qjwin/?page=3

“I think the documents cited here resolve the identify of QJ/WIN as Jose Mankel (while recognizing that "Mankel" may not have been his true name, as shown in this ARRB memo: https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=60509&relPageId=3

 

Steve Thomas

 

 

That's this thread.

Also, Tim Gratz opens this thread up suggesting Mankel.

I guess we are trying to figure out who Mankel is as well. 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

That's this thread.

Also, Tim Gratz opens this thread up suggesting Mankel.

I guess we are trying to figure out who Mankel is as well. 

Yes that is correct.ive yet to find a biography of Mankel, and as even Simpich says, we are not sure Mankel is his real name.

Edited by Paul Brancato

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1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

Other documents suggest that Roselli actually used the QJ/WIN crypt/account to pay Roselli...up to the point where Roselli was taken out of the Castro assassination project in 1963.  The crypt appears to have been used for multiple people over time, just one more layer of cover, more in terms of accounting than payment than operational in the case of Roselli.  And operationally it was hidden under ZR/RIFLE

Larry - I’ve read this before. Since the most important CIA released files mentioning Mankel as QJWIN do so in the context of payments made to that name, it seems like there is still a layer of subterfuge. Maybe you can refresh my memory - I recall reading that there was an office handling QJWIN operations or payments located in Los Angeles. 

Does anyone have non CIA info on Mankel?

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2 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Roselli and QJWIN worked together, per Harvey..

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/157-10004-10136.pdf

Wasn’t Henry Manfredi one of Siragusa’s FBN agents?

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Michael - I think QJBANNER - 1 is the same Arnold M. Silver, the COS in Luxembourg. If it is, and if QJ refers to Spain, it may be a cryptonym only used by Silver in the context of Spain. 

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Paul, from memory - and Newman would be the proper source on this - that crypt was used for payments out of a variety of offices and over a number of years.  I do recall an LA office use, a couple of uses in Europe and of course its use to pay off Roselli but that was out of HQ not a station or field office. I know of no non-CIA info on Mankel.  Apparently John has more info on the crypt but he is immersed in his books right now and I've not been able to break through to him...

And yes, there were a couple of layers of subterfuge as you say, you always have to deal with who is assigned a crypt and in some instances they may be reused over time, then you have the actual security files on the individual which have to have a true name somewhere as to the personnel files. And then you have the operational crypts, normally made up for specific projects.  But when people like Harvey and Angleton get really sneaky they hide new projects within old ones and under other covers...like putting ZR/RIFLE under Staff D.  Harvey's notes even comment that the people that really know how to hide things are Angleton and the Office of Security.

Wish I could be of more help, I'll continue trying to find out more information from Newman.

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On 6/23/2018 at 5:12 PM, Michael Clark said:

QJWIN related to Spain, speculatively... in bold.

It's interesting that the respondent has a "Pavlovian" response of "Spain" with regard to QJWIN, yet the "QJ" portion of that Cryptonym has no other mates, "QJ" is unique. Either we are missing multiple, or numerous, "QJ" Cryptos, or QJWIN is very likely related to Spain, or the respondent is being deceptive. 

It could also be that I am not very good at this.......

I think Halley was Theodore Shackley

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On 9/10/2007 at 3:36 AM, Tim Gratz said:

Does anyone have information on QJ/WIN? Does he have an e-mail address so John can invent him to join the Forum? Kidding aside, your opinions on QJ/Win would be appreciated.

On a lighter note:

 

QJ/WIN was David Atlee Phillips aka Maurice Bishop.

 

HSCA Vol. X pp. 38-39

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1212#relPageId=42&tab=page

 

"Veciana has never assumed that Maurice Bishop was a true name. At one point of their early meetings in Havana, Veciana noticed a Belgian passport which Bishop had in his open briefcase. Examining it when Bishop left the room briefly, Veciana made a quick note of it on a scrap of paper. Veciana kept that scrap of paper and showed it to Senator Schweiker's investigator. The name on that paper was "Frigault".

 

Early Origins of the Frigault family

https://www.houseofnames.com/frigault-family-crest

"The surname Frigault was first found in Normandy (French: Normandie), the former Duchy of Normandy. "

 

Just across the road from Luxembourg and Belgium, wouldn't you say?

 

hahaha

 

Steve Thomas

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On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:22 AM, David Boylan said:

QJ WIN is listed as Jose Marie Andre Mankel - http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov9-2017/104-10061-10115.pdf (page 17)

Also lists WI ROGUE as David Tzitzichvilli. This doc has listings of Crypts and aliases. David Philips as - Walter Bracton, Micheal Choadan, Paul Langevin, David Paddock.

It's rare for a CIA officer to have more than one alias.  The officer usually uses  his real first name and then goes to an old phone book and picks a last name.  The officer has to learn a backstory to the point the he himself actually believes it.  It's imperative because if he ever gets caught and interrogated, he cannot slip one little bit on his backstory, also called a "legend".  He even has to be able to lie to everyone he meets, including his family, friends, kids and wife.  It's a lonely, depressing life which leads to lots of drinking in many cases.  It really is a matter of life and death in clandestine work.

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This isn’t about the cia agent, rather it’s about the use of aliases. Agents can have multiple, and cryptonyms. 

For interesting reading there is a new book out called The Skorzeny Papers. The author thinks Skorzeny might have been QJWIN. 

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I would note that we now actually have records showing that certain types of CIA officers may have different alieas over the years, depending on their tasking and especially where they serve at a given time.  We know of several for David Phillips and for David Morales as examples.  Each alias had a back stop, some minimal some much better developed.  Beyond that each had multiple pseudos for document purposes depending on individual assignments. And of course some programs and projects had multiple crypts associated with individuals...it seems much more common to find crypts assigned to projects. Which may mean that multiple individuals over time could be working  under the same crypt, if nothing else for payroll and budgeting purposes.

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David - Ganis, author of the Skorzeny Papers, makes a pretty good case for Skorzeny being QJWIN, but also allowing for the idea that the cryptonym may refer to more than an individual. 

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Posted (edited)

No doubt Paul....  for this paper and this moment, these associations have been offered...

I'm surprised that LITAMIL/9's real name is listed...  any idea when these docs were created?, (EDIT: FEB 1978)

as he was on the edge a great deal of the time and was burnt out by the mid 60's...  he was regularly seen as THE greatest source of info from inside that embassy and for the social activities of AZCUE...

868723708_LITAMIL-9WITHALVAREZ-PEREZANDJIMENEZ.thumb.jpg.0c60e348dd5fea1677676619ac393d68.jpg

900421330_Cryptonymsandaliasesside-by-sidepage2.thumb.jpg.4ba2b0512d36d5bb4d8168726c8eaa20.jpg

Edited by David Josephs

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