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Tim Gratz

Who was QJ/WIN

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On 5/5/2018 at 2:37 PM, Michael Clark said:

Ok.

You said: "Who ordered the hit? I believe the pecking order is Pentagon first, in this case the US Army. "

 

 

 

 

You have to look to see who gained the most by the assassination of JFK and that person is LBJ.  He ordered the hit.  

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2 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

You have to look to see who gained the most by the assassination of JFK and that person is LBJ.  He ordered the hit.  

I’ve read the info on LBJ and Clark. It seemed convincing at the time. 

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48 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I’ve read the info on LBJ and Clark. It seemed convincing at the time. 

It should sound convincing because it's the truth.

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34 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

It should sound convincing because it's the truth.

I guess we can all just buy a pig and take-up truffle-hunting now.

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On 5/6/2018 at 6:39 PM, Michael Clark said:

I guess we can all just buy a pig and take-up truffle-hunting now.

I don't understand your farm-fed humor.  Ed Clark did everything for LBJ and he was a very powerful man in Texas.

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1 hour ago, David Boylan said:

QJ WIN is listed as Jose Marie Andre Mankel - http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov9-2017/104-10061-10115.pdf (page 17)

Also lists WI ROGUE as David Tzitzichvilli. This doc has listings of Crypts and aliases. David Philips as - Walter Bracton, Micheal Choadan, Paul Langevin, David Paddock.

Even though it’s hard for me to make sense out of these multiple pages I think I see the links between QJWIN and Mankel, and WIROGUE and Tzitzivilli or however that name is spelled. Other documents are less clear about whether the latter is the real name of WIROGUE or another alias. 

I’ve said several times on the Forum that the name Mankel is mentioned only (as far as I can tell) as the receiver of CIA payments for QJWIN ‘s services. It’s not even clear that QJWIN applies to one individual, as there were QJWIN offices in several cities. Sorry I’m fuzzy on the exact details. Bottom line is I’m not convinced we’ve gotten to the bottom of QJWIN, and it seems really important to me since it relates to Harvey and ZRRIFLE. 

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3 hours ago, David Boylan said:

QJ WIN is listed as Jose Marie Andre Mankel - http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov9-2017/104-10061-10115.pdf (page 17)

Also lists WI ROGUE as David Tzitzichvilli. This doc has listings of Crypts and aliases. David Philips as - Walter Bracton, Micheal Choadan, Paul Langevin, David Paddock.

David,

 

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but look at page 70 of the document you posted:

 

employees, agents or informants:

Laverne Crafard and James Earl Ray. my, my, my.

 

Steve Thomas

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1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but look at page 70 of the document you posted:

 

employees, agents or informants:

Laverne Crafard and James Earl Ray. my, my, my.

 

Steve Thomas

I saw that. Is Laverne Larry’s real name? 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Laverne Crafard

From Spartacus:

 In October, 1963, Ruby employed Crafard as a handyman at the Carousel Club. The day after the assassination of John F. Kennedy Crafard had a meeting in a Dallas garage with Ruby and George Senator. Later that day Crafard left Dallas and went to stay with his sister in Michigan. Mark Lane argues in Rush to Judgment (1966) that Crafard was "one of Ruby's closest companions during the weeks preceding the assassination" and claims that his flight from Dallas following the assassination was highly suspicious.

Joachim Joetsen:

While I cannot go into the matter at any length here I shall briefly outline some of the points of evidence which I have developed in Oswald: The Truth. In the first place, the Warren Report itself notes that 'Ruth Paine testified that Crafard's photograph bears a strong resemblance to Oswald.'

Secondly, the Report recounts an episode in which a Dallas electronics salesman, Robert K. Patterson, and two of his associates expressed the belief that they had seen Ruby in the company of Oswald, enter their store. The Commission however, established that Ruby's companion on this occasion was Larry Crafard.

Thirdly, about half a dozen people testified, or told the police or the FBI, that they had seen a person resembling Oswald at the Carousel Club, while the real Lee Harvey Oswald, according to the Commission, never set foot there

Gaeton Fonzi:

 Commission chairman Earl Warren himself, with then Representative Gerald Ford at his side, was interviewing a barman, Curtis LaVerne Crafard. Crafard had worked at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club before he was seized by FBI men as he was hightailing it out of town the day after the assassination, having told someone, "They are not going to pin this on me!"

In the interview, Warren asks Craford what he did before he was a bartender.

"I was a Master sniper in the Marine Corps," Craford answered.*

The next question that Warren immediately asked was: "What kind of entertainment did they have at the club?"

"my, my, my", Steve, is one way to say it. Holy S@#! is another.

Edited by Robert Harper
add few words

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16 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I saw that. Is Laverne Larry’s real name? 

Paul,

 

In his WC testimony, he's listed as Curtis Laverne Crafard.

 

Steve Thomas

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3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but look at page 70 of the document you posted:

 

employees, agents or informants:

Laverne Crafard and James Earl Ray. my, my, my.

 

Steve Thomas

Oh My! I can’t wait to read this one!

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Posted (edited)

Uh, just for context, is this not just a list of items including names that the HSCA investigators compiled to make requests against and to look for information...like a huge shopping list.  Please correct if I'm mistaken - you might also want to double check the very first time Ray shows up with his Raoul story....

Not that I'm trying to spoil anybody's fun but it would be good for the thread to elaborate on what this document really is..

 

Edited by Larry Hancock

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1 hour ago, Robert Harper said:

From Spartacus:

 In October, 1963, Ruby employed Crafard as a handyman at the Carousel Club. The day after the assassination of John F. Kennedy Crafard had a meeting in a Dallas garage with Ruby and George Senator. Later that day Crafard left Dallas and went to stay with his sister in Michigan. Mark Lane argues in Rush to Judgment (1966) that Crafard was "one of Ruby's closest companions during the weeks preceding the assassination" and claims that his flight from Dallas following the assassination was highly suspicious.

Joachim Joetsen:

While I cannot go into the matter at any length here I shall briefly outline some of the points of evidence which I have developed in Oswald: The Truth. In the first place, the Warren Report itself notes that 'Ruth Paine testified that Crafard's photograph bears a strong resemblance to Oswald.'

Secondly, the Report recounts an episode in which a Dallas electronics salesman, Robert K. Patterson, and two of his associates expressed the belief that they had seen Ruby in the company of Oswald, enter their store. The Commission however, established that Ruby's companion on this occasion was Larry Crafard.

Thirdly, about half a dozen people testified, or told the police or the FBI, that they had seen a person resembling Oswald at the Carousel Club, while the real Lee Harvey Oswald, according to the Commission, never set foot there

Gaeton Fonzi:

 Commission chairman Earl Warren himself, with then Representative Gerald Ford at his side, was interviewing a barman, Curtis LaVerne Crafard. Crafard had worked at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club before he was seized by FBI men as he was hightailing it out of town the day after the assassination, having told someone, "They are not going to pin this on me!"

In the interview, Warren asks Craford what he did before he was a bartender.

"I was a Master sniper in the Marine Corps," Craford answered.*

The next question that Warren immediately asked was: "What kind of entertainment did they have at the club?"

"my, my, my", Steve, is one way to say it. Holy S@#! is another.

Robert (and Steve) - this is astounding. I was aware of his resemblance to Oswald, but thanks Robert for the specific links. That his name comes up in a document about CIA assets and cryptonyms is really new to me. And a Marine sniper? I guess I’ll have to reconsider my view of Oswald being at the Carousel Club. Garrison thought he had been seen there in the company of a dark complected man with a scar over his left eye (David Morales?). So now we have the possibility that Morales and Crafard were seen there,and that Crafard was a CIA asset. 

 

32 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Uh, just for context, is this not just a list of items including names that the HSCA investigators compiled to make requests against and to look for information...like a huge shopping list.  Please correct if I'm mistaken - you might also want to double check the very first time Files tried to pedal his story....

Not that I'm trying to spoil anybody's fun but it would be good for the thread to elaborate on what this document really is..

 

I agree. I looked through the doc start to finish twice. It appears to be questions HSCA was asking, and partial answers from CIA. is that correct? So who wrote the names Crafard and Ray? You’re not spoiling anyone’s fun btw. 

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