Oswald in Mexico City

[Thomas Graves]

Antti,

[...] I have a document from Raymond A. Warren suggesting it [the 'Mexico Oswald'] may be someone named Yuriy Ivanovich Moskalev.

The forum's attachment feature isn't operational at the moment but when it is, I will post the relevant document.

Cheers,

James

Here's the pdf document by CIA Latin America Division Chief, Raymond A. Warren, that James Richards was trying to post, or at least part of it:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.history-matters.com%2Farchive%2Fjfk%2Fcia%2Frussholmes%2Fpdf%2F104-10413-10077.pdf&ei=EF34UbLAB6j8yAHE74G4Cw&usg=AFQjCNHaTxzIcAcdrHOpOJvAv8dLdpJ_6g&sig2=oCLwIQayggJQgyJEju8x2A&bvm=bv.49967636,d.cGE

According to page 2 of a CIA document which Bill Simpich recently brought to our attention in another thread

( http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17471&page=2 ),

Yuiry Ivanovich Moskalev was born circa 1921, so he would have been about 42 years old in October of 1963 when the photos of Mexico City Mystery Man were taken. Here's the document:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4546&relPageId=2

Another Simpich link shows what Moskalev looked like in 1971 when he was around 50 years old:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4158&relPageId=2

Moskalev does look a lot like the Mexico City Mystery Man, IMHO, especially in the photographs taken on 10/15/63 at the Cuban Embassy / Cuban Consulate:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4172&relPageId=65

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4172&relPageId=67

What do the other members think? Bear in mind that there is a difference of eight years between the photographs taken in 1963 and in 1971.

--Tommy

Edited August 1, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Antti,

[...] I have a document from Raymond A. Warren suggesting it [the 'Mexico Oswald'] may be someone named Yuriy Ivanovich Moskalev.

The forum's attachment feature isn't operational at the moment but when it is, I will post the relevant document.

Cheers,

James

Here's the pdf document by CIA Latin America Division Chief, Raymond A. Warren, that James Richards was trying to post, or at least part of it:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.history-matters.com%2Farchive%2Fjfk%2Fcia%2Frussholmes%2Fpdf%2F104-10413-10077.pdf&ei=EF34UbLAB6j8yAHE74G4Cw&usg=AFQjCNHaTxzIcAcdrHOpOJvAv8dLdpJ_6g&sig2=oCLwIQayggJQgyJEju8x2A&bvm=bv.49967636,d.cGE

According to page 2 of a CIA document which Bill Simpich recently brought to our attention in another thread

( http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17471&page=2 ),

Yuiry Ivanovich Moskalev was born circa 1921, so he would have been about 42 years old in October of 1963 when the photos of Mexico City Mystery Man were taken. Here's the document:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4546&relPageId=2

Another Simpich link shows what Moskalev looked like in 1971 when he was around 50 years old:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4158&relPageId=2

Moskalev does look like the Mexico City Mystery Man, IMHO, especially in the photographs taken on October 15, 1963, at the Cuban Embassy / Cuban Consulate:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4172&relPageId=65

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4172&relPageId=67

What do the other members think? Bear in mind that there is a difference of eight years between the photographs taken in 1963 and in 1971.

--Tommy

bumped

Edited October 6, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

What does it matter?

[Thomas Graves]

What does it matter?

Dear Paul,

Some researchers and students are still wondering whether or not the "Mexico City Mystery Man" photographed outside the Russian Embassy on at least one day in early October, 1963, was GRU agent and "scientist" Moskalev. Bill Simpich believes that Mexico City CIA wanted the Soviets to think that CIA believed the Mexico City Oswald Impersonator was their GRU agent, Moskalev.

If this theory is correct, it would help to explain why it took Mexico City Station so long to send to Headquarters the cable about, and the photos of, "Mystery Man" / (Oswald(?)) as he was leaving the Russian Embassy.

-- Tommy

PS What would you rather talk about?

Edited October 6, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

Garrison - wondering whether the guy with the scar over his left eye accompanied Oswald to Mexico City, and that the pics the CIA had of Oswald were in the company of this (CIA) man, necessitating the photo substitution.

[Thomas Graves]

Garrison - wondering whether the guy with the scar over his left eye accompanied Oswald to Mexico City, and that the pics the CIA had of Oswald were in the company of this (CIA) man, necessitating the photo substitution.

Dear Paul,

OK. What's the title of you're thread going to be? (lol)

-- Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Garrison - wondering whether the guy with the scar over his left eye accompanied Oswald to Mexico City, and that the pics the CIA had of Oswald were in the company of this (CIA) man, necessitating the photo substitution.

Dear Paul,

OK. What's the title of you're thread going to be? (lol)

-- Tommy

Pedro Gutierrez Valencia, a Mexican credit investigator for a Mexico City department store, claimed to have literally bumped into Oswald and a 5' 4", broad-shouldered, 33 year old-looking Cuban with whom Oswald was arguing right outside the MC Cuban Consulate on September 30 or October 1, 1963. He said that Oswald looked about 27 years old and that he saw the Cuban hand Oswald a big wad of American money. (He said nothing, however, about whether or not the guy had a scar on his left eyebrow.) He said they got into a late model Renault and drove away together, with the Cuban behind the wheel.

He said that he remembered the two guys because of the argument they were having (in English) and the because of the handing over of the money during said argument. He said that when he saw photos of LHO in Mexican newspapers a few days after the assassination, he realized that the guy who had received the money was Oswald.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_2121.pdf

(Hint: press F and ctrl at the same time and type in valencia)

FWIW.

-- Tommy

Edited October 6, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

On 7/7/2004 at 2:44 PM, James Richards said:

Hi Justin,

I'm not 100% sure but it could well be. Gerry didn't go into any great detail regarding Saul Sage.

You have probably already seen it, but there is a photo showing Roscoe White and a few Marine buddies. One of the guys is supposedly named Saul and bears some resemblance to our Mexico Oswald. Unfortunately I can not post it due to some technical difficulties with the forum but if you send me your email address through the personal messenger, I will email it to you. I have no idea how to attach photos using the personal messenger feature. I'm just not that bright.

James

Bumped.  The photo James was talking about will be posted here by me, soon.  Hopefully.

[Thomas Graves]

On 10/5/2007 at 7:49 AM, Steve Thomas said:

I think this is the photo people have been referring to:

Steve Thomas

Here's the photo James Richards was referring to in the previous (bumped) post. Could the guy in the foreground be "Mexico City Mystery Man?"  (See two of the CIA photos of MCMM near the bottom of the first page, this thread.)

Edited April 29, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Michael Clark]

21 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Here's the photo James Richards was referring to in the previous (bumped) post. Could the guy in the foreground be "Mexico City Mystery Man?"  (See two of the CIA photos of MCMM near the bottom of the first page, this thread.)

That's Roscoe White, center left, in the T shirt and the familiarly odd stance.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Thomas Graves]

2 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

That's Roscoe White, center left, in the T shirt and the familiarly odd stance.

Thanks, Michael.  

Whether or not that guy with the bump on his wrist (just like the guy who's holding the rifle / carbine in The Back Yard Photos) really is Roscoe White, he's not the guy James Richards was referring to in the photo.

Thanks anyway!

-- Tommy

[Michael Clark]

20 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Thanks, Michael.  

Whether or not that guy with the bump on his wrist (just like the guy who's holding the rifle / carbine in The Back Yard Photos) really is Roscoe White, he's not the guy James Richards was referring to in the photo.

Thanks anyway!

-- Tommy

 

On 7/7/2004 at 5:44 PM, James Richards said:

Hi Justin,

I'm not 100% sure but it could well be. Gerry didn't go into any great detail regarding Saul Sage.

You have probably already seen it, but there is a photo showing Roscoe White and a few Marine buddies. One of the guys is supposedly named Saul and bears some resemblance to our Mexico Oswald. Unfortunately I can not post it due to some technical difficulties with the forum but if you send me your email address through the personal messenger, I will email it to you. I have no idea how to attach photos using the personal messenger feature. I'm just not that bright.

James

 

[Brendan Boucher]

What if the original goal of Oswald's venture to Mexico was indeed to obtain a visa?  The fact that the visa application sent to Cuba in 1963 and seen firsthand by Congressional investigators in the 70's was affixed with Oswald's photograph is strong evidence that he was the individual in and out of the Cuban consulate several times on Sept. 27th.  Is it reasonable to think that equipped with a number of documents displaying his communist bona fides his handlers believed he might actually be able to procure a visa in Mexico for travel to Cuba?  One can imagine the operational possibilities from there if successful. 

 

In this scenario Oswald is shepherded into Mexico City in an unknown fashion, surreptitiously, and is probably there on the 27th only.  Whether he avoided Embassy surveillance, there was no surveillance, or surveillance was buried is really anybody's guess. Having all hope extinguished of receiving a visa though, it was necessary for those with knowledge of the situation to enact a plan B.  Or, in an equally likely scenario the gambit was piggybacked or hi-jacked by those with high level intelligence connections.  I think either would explain the incredibly disjointed goings on from September 28th forward.  And also the unconvincing paper trail, having been made as an afterthought.

 

It has been noted that David Phillips cited Anne Goodpasture with having discovered Oswald at the Cuban Embassy.  It's a pretty puzzling statement considering the events that followed.  But what if this is a nod to a lesser known history?  What if by the morning of September 28th Goodpasture/MEXI/Others have made the connection?  "Holy sh*t!, it's Oswald!!"  They're presented with a golden opportunity.  Silvia Duran and Oswald are duly impersonated Saturday morning with the dead giveaway being that she is referred to as "someone later identified as Silvia Duran".  The transcribers know Silvia Duran's voice. And Oswald did not speak broken Russian.  But anyway it's now entered into the record that "Oswald" has visited both the Cuban and Soviet embassies, and that he would be having further visits.  

 

A good deal of evidence exists that there is at least one missing call that discussed "Oswald's" need for financial assistance but the coup de grace was delivered in the second October 1st phony call that elicited the name Kostikov from the Soviets which was quickly followed by "My Name is Oswald".  Those with knowledge of TUMBLEWEED would make sure their Kostikov knowledge would stay hidden until the appropriate time.  If our Intelligence Agencies had been acting in good faith it's inconceivable that this information would not have set off alarms in early October 1963.  

 

Instead what we have following these events appears to be an enormous charade.  Which actually helps immensely when trying to explain certain actions.  How else can we accept Goodpasture/MEXI equating a phone call with an image from a different date?  And why wouldn't HQ send a picture of Oswald to Mexico City?  If the goal was to make sure the fable coming out of MEXI stayed attached to LHO then it makes sense.  

 

Taking this one step further, and I have no idea whether this was part of the original plan or not, but if we assume Oswald was supposed to be killed in a setup/shootout scenario on the 22nd, then what are the chances a picture of Oswald shows up in Dallas from Mexico in the wee hours of the 23rd?