Jump to content
The Education Forum
  • Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! PLEASE CLICK ON THIS TITLE FOR INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION!:   06/03/2017

      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team
John Simkin

Beware: The Douglas/Janney/Simkin Silver Bullets

Recommended Posts

The author of this article, Kenneth J. Dillon, suggested that I might be interested in the possibility that the KGB was involved in the death of Mary Pinchot Meyer:

http://www.scientiapress.com/findings/kgbmeyer.html

When this writer was serving in the Department of State in the 1980s, a CIA officer told him that the KGB had murdered Kennedy's girlfriend. The KGB had made the murder look like a sexual attack that went awry, but CIA found out that in fact it was a KGB job.

How CIA learned this is not clear. The information could have come from a Soviet defector. CIA was evidently reluctant to reveal what it knew, so the case has gone officially unsolved for 43 years. Now this writer has taken a closer look at the case and considers that the American public's right to know its own history overrides any lingering concerns about revealing sources and methods, both very old by now.

The simplest, most telling explanation would be that Meyer knew something very damaging to the KGB, so it decided to eliminate her. A KGB contact in a D.C. neighborhood would serve as a cut-out who hired Crump to murder Meyer in a way that looked like a sexual assault that went bad. Crump was instructed to act dumb and even like a plausible sexual attacker, yet could remain confident that no D.C. jury would find him guilty as long as he safely disposed of the murder gun. Crump would presumably never know that it was the KGB that was paying for his work as a contract killer.

There is no specific reason to think that the Meyer murder was connected to the assassination of Kennedy. It would seem much more likely to be linked to what Meyer had been doing as a confidante of Kennedy during his presidency. However, the Meyer case suggests that the KGB was engaged in some way in Kennedy's personal life--to spy on him, to influence him, to blackmail him, or to get revenge on him for the humiliation of the Soviet Union in the Cuban missile crisis of 1962. This last motive could also have led the KGB to arrange for the assassination of Kennedy, and the use of a cut-out and contract killer in that case would have paralleled their use in the Meyer murder. However, the Kennedy assassination is a notoriously tangled and controversial affair, so it seems more prudent to treat the Meyer case as related only to Kennedy's time in office.

The theory that the KGB hired Crump to murder Meyer makes excellent sense of the available evidence regarding the case. Crump was a violent, ruthless man. His lingering in the vicinity of the crime strongly suggests that he wanted to be arrested. His weeping and other behavior were nothing more than acting. He was a contract killer who, according to this theory, did the bidding of the KGB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, et al,

I would submit that the only way to understand this report is to base analysis on the rejection of monolithic appreciations of "KGB," "CIA," and other commonly over-simplified entities -- including governments.

We are a species predisposed to factionalizing.

Were there not, within the Cuban government c. 1963, proponents of the Soviet line aligned against Maoists?

Were there not, within the KGB and the Politburo c. 1963, deep fractures (Khrushchev's moderates v. Andropov's hardliners)?

Were there not, within the CIA c. 1963, "Yankees" and "Cowboys"?

How might JFK had educated MM (sorry, too confusing; Mary Meyer, not [for the purposes of this thread only] Marilyn Monroe) about this deep political complexity?

Charles

Edited by Charles Drago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would submit that the only way to understand this report is to base analysis on the rejection of monolithic appreciations of "KGB," "CIA," and other commonly over-simplified entities -- including governments.

This is of course true. However, I find it difficult to believe that KGB agents would have assassinated JFK or Mary Meyer. I do find it interesting that a member of the State Department should push this story of KGB involvement in the death of Meyer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Tiers of the JFK Assassination Cabal: (if I had to focus on JFK: The Final Solution)

1) The Intel Brains: The so-called Suite 8F or The Georgetown CIA Crowd (Dulles, Cline, Wisner, Angleton) possessing a certain combination of Race Hygiene and Eugenical Master Race Arrogance with a distinct preference for Anglophile Policies with a Unitarian flavor a la George Michael Evica and his recent book: A Certain Arrogance. After all Wickliffe Draper was Mr. Unitarian in Hopedale and Mr. Mississippi within The Mississippi Sovereignty Commission and The James Eastland SISS crowds.

2) The Facilitators: The American Security Council and WACL crowds and Wickliffe Draper's Pioneer Fund clustered as The Richard Condon Manchurian Candidate Group called the Gang of Five: Anastase Vonsiatsky, Ray S. Cline, Jim Angleton, Robert Morris, and Charles Willoughby the last four of whom were also in The American Security Council as well. They were the cutout layer to protect the Georgetown CIA Master Race crowds. Vonsiatsky, Draper, Gerald L K Smith and The Canadian Anti Communist League crew (CACL) were also involved with The Winnipeg Airport Giesbrecht crowds via Cline and WACL.

3) The Perps: Robert Emmett Johnson, Mitchell Werbell III, Homer S. Echevarria, Col. Robert F. Baird and Rip Robertson along with the Brown University classmates trio: E. Howard Hunt, George Lincoln Rockwell and Anastase Vonsiatsky the first five were collectively known as Tommy's Boys by Mary Ferrell's informant (a deliberate cutout to make it look like a rogue operation). The shooters were first selected and trained by Col. Ulius L. Amoss from Baltimore using MKULTRA ManCand techniques in either Tsingtao, Harbin or Mukden where Cline was during WW II then they were taken over by Ray S. Cline in 1961 after Amoss died. Cline used some of these people to murder Archbishop Oscar Romero and Benito

Aquino much later when he was head of WACL, as well killing many, many others and running Death Squads too.

4) The Money Layer: Wickliffe P. Draper of The Pioneer Fund and the Baltimore Intel Agency cutouts started first by Col. Ulius L. Amoss who ran over 3,000 Intel Agents at one time, via his Intelligence Services of Information which included his GramTrade Corporation and later yet another Metals Processing Company in Baltimore which was a cutout for the CIA which was later active during the Iran Contra money laundering operations as well according to a Bank of Maryland Trust Officer who went whistle blower during the Iran Contra investigations. These Baltimore operations were orginally based around Baltimore's H. L. Mencken and his American Mercury wherever it was located and published over the years but long after he had sold it. Mercury was referenced in The Giesbrecht Incident when it was in Wichita, KS and it ended up on West 57th Street in New York City near Draper's penthouse in Manhattan.

Any questions?

Edited by John Bevilaqua

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would submit that the only way to understand this report is to base analysis on the rejection of monolithic appreciations of "KGB," "CIA," and other commonly over-simplified entities -- including governments.

This is of course true. However, I find it difficult to believe that KGB agents would have assassinated JFK or Mary Meyer. I do find it interesting that a member of the State Department should push this story of KGB involvement in the death of Meyer.

Again, I would suggest that if we are to penetrate the JFK assassination to its deepest levels, we must appreciate the KGB and CIA -- for starters -- as balkinized entities. We agree, John, that neither agency as they are conventionally defined assassinated Kennedy or Meyer. There were no meetings in Langley or Moscow at which the hits appeared on official agendas.

But powerful interests on both sides of the Iron Curtain were similarly threatened by JFK, and their facilitators -- described elsewhere as "a treasonous cabal of hard-line American and Soviet intelligence agents whose masters were above Cold War differences" -- were, in my estimation, significantly involved in both murders.

Charles

Edited by Charles Drago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would submit that the only way to understand this report is to base analysis on the rejection of monolithic appreciations of "KGB," "CIA," and other commonly over-simplified entities -- including governments.

This is of course true. However, I find it difficult to believe that KGB agents would have assassinated JFK or Mary Meyer. I do find it interesting that a member of the State Department should push this story of KGB involvement in the death of Meyer.

Exactly, John. State Department 80's=Reaganite. CIA 80's=Casey devotee. Both would seem to have a vested interest in keeping the name of Ronald Reagan alive as the killer of that great evil--communism. Both are prone to blame the KGB for everything. They probably believe Helms' line that Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone were unwitting agents of the KGB as well.

The KGB would have NO motive to kill Mary Meyer. She was the mother of Cord Meyer's children. The KGB and CIA observed certain codes of conduct. You can kill double-agents. You take agents alive and swap them back. You don't kill each other's wives. Would they want Meyer to start killing their wives on the streets of Moscow? Heck, no. The whole idea that the KGB would kill Meyer on the streets of Washington is IDIOTIC, and this guy is a fool for believing whatever spook said as much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Tiers of the JFK Assassination Cabal: (if I had to focus on JFK: The Final Solution)

1) The Intel Brains: The so-called Suite 8F or The Georgetown CIA Crowd (Dulles, Cline, Wisner, Angleton) possessing a certain combination of Race Hygiene and Eugenical Master Race Arrogance with a distinct preference for Anglophile Policies with a Unitarian flavor a la George Michael Evica and his recent book: A Certain Arrogance. After all Wickliffe Draper was Mr. Unitarian in Hopedale and Mr. Mississippi within The Mississippi Sovereignty Commission and The James Eastland SISS crowds.

2) The Facilitators: The American Security Council and WACL crowds and Wickliffe Draper's Pioneer Fund clustered as The Richard Condon Manchurian Candidate Group called the Gang of Five: Anastase Vonsiatsky, Ray S. Cline, Jim Angleton, Robert Morris, and Charles Willoughby the last four of whom were also in The American Security Council as well. They were the cutout layer to protect the Georgetown CIA Master Race crowds. Vonsiatsky, Draper, Gerald L K Smith and The Canadian Anti Communist League crew (CACL) were also involved with The Winnipeg Airport Giesbrecht crowds via Cline and WACL.

3) The Perps: Robert Emmett Johnson, Mitchell Werbell III, Homer S. Echevarria, Col. Robert F. Baird and Rip Robertson along with the Brown University classmates trio: E. Howard Hunt, George Lincoln Rockwell and Anastase Vonsiatsky the first five were collectively known as Tommy's Boys by Mary Ferrell's informant (a deliberate cutout to make it look like a rogue operation). The shooters were first selected and trained by Col. Ulius L. Amoss from Baltimore using MKULTRA ManCand techniques in either Tsingtao, Harbin or Mukden where Cline was during WW II then they were taken over by Ray S. Cline in 1961 after Amoss died. Cline used some of these people to murder Archbishop Oscar Romero and Benito

Aquino much later when he was head of WACL, as well killing many, many others and running Death Squads too.

4) The Money Layer: Wickliffe P. Draper of The Pioneer Fund and the Baltimore Intel Agency cutouts started first by Col. Ulius L. Amoss who ran over 3,000 Intel Agents at one time, via his Intelligence Services of Information which included his GramTrade Corporation and later yet another Metals Processing Company in Baltimore which was a cutout for the CIA which was later active during the Iran Contra money laundering operations as well according to a Bank of Maryland Trust Officer who went whistle blower during the Iran Contra investigations. These Baltimore operations were orginally based around Baltimore's H. L. Mencken and his American Mercury wherever it was located and published over the years but long after he had sold it. Mercury was referenced in The Giesbrecht Incident when it was in Wichita, KS and it ended up on West 57th Street in New York City near Draper's penthouse in Manhattan.

Any questions?

Here is St. John Hunt on his father in Rolling Stone just in case anyone is having trouble with the concept

of Hunt and Rockwell hitting it off as early as the time frame betwee 1936-1940 at Brown University...

E. Howard said, "Deaths? What deaths?" Like Saint says, he never felt guilt about anything: "He was a complete self-centered WASP who saw himself as this blue blood from upstate New York. 'I'm better than anybody because I'm white, Protestant and went to Brown, and since I'm in the CIA, I can do anything I want.' Jew, n**ger, Polack, Wop -- he used all those racial epithets. He was an elitist. He hated everybody."

And as far as the Rockwell mentor Gerald L K Smith:

"The Kennedys are nothing but whore mongering, whisky swigging fake Catholics, who want to take away this

country from the White, Christian Patriots like you and me and hand it over on a silver platter to the N**gers, Kikes, Wops and Spics."

Wow and Evica called this only A Certain Arrogance?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James DiEugenio has returned to his attack on me. This time he includes Rex Bradford in his criticism of people who run websites and forums. It comes in a review of Legacy of Secrecy by Lamar Waldron with Thom Hartmann.

http://www.ctka.net/2009/legacy_secrecy.html

What was the reason for the RFK cover-up? According to them one of the reasons was whether or not drug trafficking played a role in the case. (Read it yourself on p. 680) See, the LAPD acted then and now "not as part of a massive orchestrated cover-up, but to avoid embarrassment and scandal for the department." (p. 686) If you read Lisa Pease's review of An Open and Shut Case you will see that what caused the cover-up. It was the probable 14 shots fired that night when Sirhan's weapon could only fire eight. Further, the acoustics tape indicates the shots came from two directions and therefore from at least two assassins. And Sirhan was not one of the assailants of RFK. Because if he was, they would not have had to substitute the bullet evidence at the Wenke Panel hearings. Which is what the evidence indicates happened. Incredibly, the book does not even mention those proceedings supervised by Judge Wenke. Which would be like discussing the JFK case and never mentioning the HSCA. Further, and perhaps even more shocking, the work done on the newly discovered audio tape of the shooting by sound technician Phil Von Pragg is also never discussed. Even though the cable TV special based on this key discovery was broadcast a year before the book came out.

And how do the authors support the nonsense they write about these two cases? By using authors like Gerald Posner in the King case and Dan Moldea in the RFK case.

Their section on Watergate is just as outlandish. They say that the whole motivation behind the two year scandal was Nixon's attempt to get the Inspector General's Report on the CIA-Mafia plots. When that seems like thin gruel (because Nixon is not in the report), they shift over to the Inspector General's Report on the Bay of Pigs operation. (pgs 716-17) The point of all this thrashing about? The usual. The arrests at the Watergate were not engineered by Helms and the CIA. (p. 720) Even though, as Jim Hougan has proven in Secret Agenda, CIA agents James McCord and Howard Hunt deliberately sabotaged the break-in that night. And there are two sources-one through Hougan and one through Washington lawyer Dan Alcorn— that say Helms was alerted to the arrests as they happened.

I don't want to leave the impression that the book is utterly worthless. It's not quite that horrendous. There are some good tidbits in it. For instance, a CIA agent actually reviewed Edward Epstein's book Inquest when it was published. And this became the model for the famous "Countering the Critics" CIA memorandum prepared for Helms. (p. 380) There is a good description of how LBJ, Earl Warren, and Hoover plotted against the critical movement. (pgs 356-61) The authors note how quickly Johnson shifted the tone and attention in South Vietnam after Kennedy's death. (p. 275) Finally, they show that it was Arlen Specter who actually composed Dave Powers' false affidavit about where the direction of the shots came from in Dealey Plaza. (p. 308)

Unfortunately, that's about it for the positives. Which is a really bad batting average for a book of over 800 pages. Yet none of the travesty listed above stops people like Rex Bradford and John Simkin from having Waldron do interviews on their web sites. Which makes me think the assassinations are really more of a business interest for these two entrepreneurs than a pursuit of historical truth.

Let me conclude with one last point. One which I actually was not going to bring up at all. But I have to. Because, near the end, the authors bring it up themselves. Some of the supporters of Ultimate Sacrifice, like Mark Crispin Miller, have said that I accused Waldron of being some kind of agent in my review of that book. I did not. If you read the review carefully, I was talking about Gus Russo in that regard. And I have analyzed the Russo issue at length in my essay "Who is Gus Russo?" But the authors go out of their way to address this charge by saying that they "want to make it clear that they have never worked for the CIA." (p. 768) This may be technically true. But it is not the whole story. And we know this from the proverbial Horse's Mouth. A few years ago, Hartmann was giving a talk in Lancaster, Pennsylvania about one of his many other books. Two JFK researchers were in attendance, Jerry Policoff and Steve Jones. They were both taken aback by one of his early statements. He admitted quite openly to having past ties to both the CIA and corporate America. The question then becomes: If he was open about that then, why is he being disingenuous about it now? To give Legacy of Secrecy the credibility it does not have on its own? Another question: Does Waldron know about this? Or is he just along for the ride?

It seems Rex and myself are being attacked as we have allowed Lamar Waldron to defend his theories on our websites. If Jim bothered to read what I have said about Lamar’s books he would know that I totally disagree with his theory of the Mafia being involved in the assassination of JFK. But that does not seem to matter. What he objects to is that I have given a platform to Lamar's views. He then goes on to argue that the reason why Rex and I grant Lamar this freedom of expression is that it is “really more of a business interest for these two entrepreneurs than a pursuit of historical truth.” I cannot speak for Rex but this forum does not make any money at all – in fact, it costs me a considerable amount of money to run the forum. Even if I did make money out of the forum, it does not in itself invalidate the attempt to allow people to express their own thoughts on the case. Anyway, what is the difference between a person who runs a forum or website from a writer of books? Does the fact that Jim receives royalties from the books he writes leave him open to the criticism that he is more interested in making money than in obtaining “historical truth”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I objected to John was that you and others here actually took the Waldron/Hartmann thesis seriously for awhile after the first book came out.

It was not until months later that you began to question it.

I thought it was absolutely bizarre from the first moment I heard of it. I then expressed those reasons in my first review, and then in my second over Legacy of Secrecy.

That is not true. I met Lamar Waldron in Dallas before the book was published. I found him a genuine and likeable character and wanted to like the book. However, that was not possible. However, I willingly gave him space on the forum to debate his book. Lamar was a victim of a CIA disinformation campaign. These "leaked" documents completely changed the direction of his work. He constantly told me that the CIA would officially release documents that would support his story. This never happened and as a result he was descredited. He is not the first researcher to suffer from so-called friends within the CIA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×