Usenet Posts of "The Real Deep Throat"

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Is it imitation being the sincerest form of flattery or art reflecting the artist or great minds thinking alike.

Fictions don't have "correct answers."

Fiction does not produce evidence

Fiction doesn't leave a paper trail.

Gary, I would argue that sometimes fiction is dripping with factual content, albeit eclipsed from general view.

I also noted Ashton's response to your question about the identity of the Usenet poster:

Quote

If you want to speculate about my being every pseudonymous character up to and possibly including the Lone Ranger and Spiderman, you'll have to get in line.

Unquote

An evasive reply if ever there was one. It's the sort of question that, if incorrect, is easy-peasy to deny outright -- which begs the question why Ashton declined that option.

Mysteries eh. Don't you love 'em.

David

It truly matters not to me if Ashton is the Lone Ranger, in fact, I'd be disappointed, to say the least, if he were; even more so if he was really plain old Ashton Gray . Ashton's signature has always been, at times, confusing to me and when I seen the above(first 2) lines in the posts of TRDT - the resonance with the signature was immediate. Ashton seems to have met my queries as they were directed - with a smile.

I do find Ashton and the work he has presented both mysterious and intriguing (in a good way and yes I do love a mystery). It is positively a new way of looking at and thinking about events. His writing is first class and is eclipsed only by the diligence of his research and that of the many elves who work equally as diligently providing supporting data. Like you David, Ashton has met my (naive at times) questions with an unflinching resolve to provide the best informative answers and always in good faith and with humour.

The one irksome fact remains; whilst I'm content that the events were not coincidental; was the vast stage called Watergate really necessary to cover the instantiation of a class of mind control? Was the RV contract really the blackest and most covert CIA operation? I might have to do some reading before my next set of daft questions!!!!! Until then Hi ho Silver, away.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Gary Loughran

[Guest David Guyatt]

The one irksome fact remains; whilst I'm content that the events were not coincidental; was the vast stage called Watergate really necessary to cover the instantiation of a class of mind control? Was the RV contract really the blackest and most covert CIA operation? I might have to do some reading before my next set of daft questions!!!!! Until then Hi ho Silver, away.

For your RV/RI reading:

http://www.philipcoppens.com/starconundrum.html

The author, Philip Coppens, has an especial interest (as do I) in the Priory of Sion story -- allegedly another intelligence operation. He likewise is interested in the subject of UFOs, mind control and the occult -- and other intelligence related operations.

They're not nearly as "sexy" as 911 JFK, Watergate etc., but they do pack a knock-down powerful and unique punch. And I warrant that they are more meaningful in the long term than any of the others. Perhaps it's a case of watching the puppet show on the stage rather than looking at the shadows behind the curtain to see how and why the strings are being pulled.

Coppens has never written about WWII black gold mind you, although he is associated with numerous people who have a deep and abiding interest in that subject. And they in his interests.

I wonder why that is?

The foregoing is completely extraneous rambling btw. Naturally.

David

[Dawn Meredith]

This is the sixth and last message of "The Real Deep Throat" in usenet, What Sally Harmony Saw, posted

The reason they corroborated each other, lied for each other, went to jail for penney-ante crimes, and defrauded the entire world is because they were providing themselves with alibis for those fateful last days of May 1972 in order to cover up their REAL crimes committed then - crimes far more vicious, far more heinous, far more odious, shocking, and abhorrent than anything ever uncovered in all the endless annals of Watergate.

Ashton:

Does the poster believe -(if you know) -and do you believe that the Watergate gang corroborated each other, lied for each other etc. because of what some believe occurred Memerial Day weekend? That being the kidnap (murder?) of Ron Hubbard and the theft of his intellectual property by Ingo Swann, and others? Is it the belief that all of Watergate is truly about this event?

(Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question).

Dawn

.

[Guest Gary Loughran]

This is the sixth and last message of "The Real Deep Throat" in usenet, What Sally Harmony Saw, posted

The reason they corroborated each other, lied for each other, went to jail for penney-ante crimes, and defrauded the entire world is because they were providing themselves with alibis for those fateful last days of May 1972 in order to cover up their REAL crimes committed then - crimes far more vicious, far more heinous, far more odious, shocking, and abhorrent than anything ever uncovered in all the endless annals of Watergate.]

Ashton:

Does the poster believe -(if you know) -and do you believe that the Watergate gang corroborated each other, lied for each other etc. because of what some believe occurred Memerial Day weekend? That being the kidnap (murder?) of Ron Hubbard and the theft of his intellectual property by Ingo Swann, and others? Is it the belief that all of Watergate is truly about this event?

(Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question).

Dawn

.

Hi Dawn,

Forgive me for butting in. That is not a stupid question it is one of the key questions to my mind. In essence that is the point, lest you believe in coincidences, we are at.

Regarding theft and murder, I imagine the specifics are left to ourselves to realise - I don't think there'll be a CIA memo appearing anytime soon.

Hope you don't mind the interruption

Gary

Edited October 17, 2007 by Gary Loughran

[Ashton Gray]

This is the sixth and last message of "The Real Deep Throat" in usenet, What Sally Harmony Saw, posted

The reason they corroborated each other, lied for each other, went to jail for penney-ante crimes, and defrauded the entire world is because they were providing themselves with alibis for those fateful last days of May 1972 in order to cover up their REAL crimes committed then - crimes far more vicious, far more heinous, far more odious, shocking, and abhorrent than anything ever uncovered in all the endless annals of Watergate.

Ashton:

Does the poster believe -(if you know) -and do you believe that the Watergate gang corroborated each other, lied for each other etc. because of what some believe occurred Memerial Day weekend? That being the kidnap (murder?) of Ron Hubbard and the theft of his intellectual property by Ingo Swann, and others? Is it the belief that all of Watergate is truly about this event?

(Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question).

Hi Dawn. As Gary Loughran has already opined, that is not a stupid question at all.

Of course I can't speak for "The Real Deep Throat" (TRDT) or what he/she/it believed or didn't believe, and even to address your question I have to uncharacteristically untether myself from my usual berth in the safe harbor of documented fact and sail out onto the stormy waters of all-engines-full speculation, straight into gale-force headwinds. It is adventurous indeed. But I do want to try to give you the best answer I can muster up.

In doing so, I hope to at least begin to barely touch upon Gary's earlier Zen-like question:

The one irksome fact remains; whilst I'm content that the events were not coincidental; was the vast stage called Watergate really necessary to cover the instantiation of a class of mind control?

Before I leave port on this cruise into pea-soup fog and heavy seas, though, I first want to point out the solid fact that none of the posts of TRDT mention L. Ron Hubbard or his intellectual property anywhere at all.

We're now out into open choppy dark waters, visibility near zero, and most of the things I'm about to say are pure speculation and are subject to change at any instant by virtue of new data or new analysis of existing data. If we happen to run into an actual fact bobbing like flotsam in the high seas, I'll be sure and point it out.

Let me restate your question as relevant only to me and what I think:

...do you believe that the Watergate gang corroborated each other, lied for each other etc. because of what some believe occurred Memerial Day weekend? That being the kidnap (murder?) of Ron Hubbard and the theft of his intellectual property by Ingo Swann, and others? Is it the belief that all of Watergate is truly about this event?

My short answer is "no". The long answer is long indeed, and all of it will not be in this post. But I will say that the evidence I have seen in the Remote Viewing Timeline and other places, when compared to the 2004 messages of "The Real Deep Throat" (who doesn't mention Hubbard at all), tend to build, in my mind, a very compelling circumstantial case that the permanent neutralization of Hubbard was an essential prerequisite to CIA's Technical Services Division contract #8473 on 1 October 1972 using three highly trained Scientologists to create their top-secret Remote Viewing program.

That doesn't mean by any stretch that my position is, or ever has been, that "all of Watergate is truly about this event."

Now hold on to the railing—the perfect storm of speculation is dead ahead. Because I further believe:

1. That some combination of the CIA's most infamous Watergate "assets"—including but not necessarily limited to E. Howard and Dorothy Hunt and James McCord—had guilty knowledge in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and, furthermore,

2. That their guilty knowledge was used as the stick to ensure their cooperation in

everything

that Watergate was used to accomplish for CIA, and, furthermore,

3. That while they, themselves, were under a form of blackmail, they were made to appear to be blackmailers of Nixon, and, furthermore,

4. That Richard Nixon knew the actual reason for the Bay of Pigs operation and why E. Howard Hunt and his CIA co-conspirators insured that it was the resounding flop that it was, and, furthermore,

5. That Richard Nixon had uncertain partial knowledge that he could not prove of CIA complicity in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and, furthermore,

6. That Nixon despised L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology and never would have permitted the establishment of the Remote Viewing program the way it was set up by CIA two weeks after the Watergate indictments came down and all klieg lights were pointed straight at the White House.

In support of just #6 above, allow me to invite your attention to the following issuance of L. Ron Hubbard in a Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin dated 24 April 1960:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE

Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

HCO BULLETIN OF 24 APRIL 1960

CONCERNING THE CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENCY

A person named Richard M. Nixon will enter his name this Fall at a convention as a citizen aspiring to the Presidency of the United States. Many Scientologists think he is all right because I once quoted him. This is very far from the facts and I hasten to give you the real story why Richard M. Nixon must be prevented at all costs from becoming president.

Two years ago in Washington this man's name appeared in a newspaper article as uttering an opinion about psychology. I called attention to this opinion as a matter of banal interest in an article.

Shortly two members of the United States Secret Service, stating they had been sent directly by Nixon, entered the establishment of the Founding Church of Washington, D.C., armed with pistols, but without warrant or formal complaint, and with foul and abusive language threatened the girls on duty there.

Hulking over desks, shouting violently they stated that they daily had to make such calls on "lots of people" to prevent Nixon's name from being used in ways Nixon disliked.

These two men stated they were part of Nixon's office and were acting on his express orders. They said that Nixon believed in nothing the Founding Church or Scientology stood for.

Their conduct before the ladies present was so intolerable that Mary Sue, having heard the shouting and curses from her office, had to come and force these men to leave, which they finally did, but only after she threatened to call the police.

As Scientologists were present, much information was obtained, of course, from these agents as to their routine activities. These were not creditable. Nixon constantly used the service against the voteless and helpless people of Washington to suppress the use of his name.

I am informing you of an exact event. It convinced me that in my opinion Nixon is not fitted to be a president. I do not believe any public figure has a right to suppress the use of his name in articles. I do not believe a public figure should enforce his will on writers or organizations by use of the Secret Service. I believe a democracy ceases to exist when deprived of freedom of speech. I do not believe any man closely connected with psychiatry should hold a high public office since psychiatry has lent its violence to political purposes.

Would you please write your papers and tell your friends that Nixon did this and that his actions against private people in Washington cause us to defy his cravings to be president.

It's my hope you'll vote and make your friends vote. But please don't vote for Nixon. Even his own Secret Service agents assure us he stands for nothing we do.

I do not tell you this because Mary Sue came close to serious injury at Nixon's hands. I tell you this because I think psychiatry and all Fascist-Commie forces have had their day.

We want clean hands in public office in the United States. Let's begin by doggedly denying Nixon the presidency no matter what his Secret Service tries to do to us now in Washington. It is better, far better, for us to run the risk of saying this now, while there's still a chance, than to fail to tell you of it for fear of reprisals and then be wiped out without defence by the Secret Service or other agency if Nixon became president. He hates us and has used what police force was available to him to say so. So please get busy on it. I am only telling a few friends.

L. RON HUBBARD

In regard to point #6 above, I rest my case.

With the rest of my speculation standing as such, I also would like to direct your attention to something that SunTzu wrote in "The Art of War":

All warfare is based on deception.

Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.

I know of no better description of what I believe Richard Helms and the CIA in conjunction with its counterpart organizations both in the United States and in the Commonwealth did in 1972 on several fronts at once.

Without great specificity in this rather broad-stroked post, I hope I have begun, at least, to give some inkling of a few of the fronts and strategic purposes—from the viewpoint of CIA, assuming your stomach will stand taking the viewpoint of such criminal cruds—that I believe were involved with and served by the fraud known as Watergate.

But this still leaves unanswered the seminal question of whether some part of the CIA-connected Watergate criminals actually were somewhere else in the world over Memorial Day weekend 1972 permanently neutralizing L. Ron Hubbard.

Of course I don't have the answer. I do remain on record and in lock-step accord with "The Real Deep Throat" and others that there was no "first break-in" at the Watergate over Memorial Day weekend 1972. And it does seem that L. Ron Hubbard did disappear that same weekend—even though a considerable effort was made by a small and odd group of people, every one of them from Commonwealth countries, by the way, to keep up appearances that Hubbard was still alive but "in hiding."

As for where Hunt, Liddy, McCord, and Baldwin actually were and what they actually were doing that weekend, as Gary already so sagely has pointed out, "I don't think there'll be a CIA memo appearing anytime soon."

In lieu of that, I'll bring this short but white-knuckled cruise into a hurricane of speculation to a close with reference to a meeting that took place on or about 24 February 1972, just three months before Memorial Day weekend 1972. It was a meeting between G. Gordon Liddy, E. Howard Hunt, and a "retired" CIA doctor who Liddy says was introduced to him by Hunt as "Dr. Edward Gunn."

Their discussion was about various methods for surreptitiously drugging a person, but developed into a conversation about the real purpose of the meeting: ways of murdering someone undetectably.

To read Liddy's long drawn-out account of this meeting in his miserably autobiographical book "Will" is to realize one is reading the tortured screed of a homicidal maniac attempting to justify his thirst for an excuse to murder.

And who does Liddy claim they were contemplating murdering?

Liddy closes his feverish six pages of homicidal musings this way:

"...Were I...given the instruction from an appropriate officer of the government, I would kill Phillip Agee if it were demonstrated (as it has often been argued) that his revelations have led directly to the death of at least one of his fellow CIA officers, that he intended to continue the revelations, and that they would lead to more deaths. Notice that this killing would not be retributive but preventive. It is the same rationale by which I was willing to obey an order to kill Jack Anderson. But I would do so only after satisfying myself that it was: a ) an order from legitimate authority; b ) a question of

malum prohibitum;

and c ) a rational response to the problem.

...If Hunt's principal was worried, I had the answer.

"Tell him," I said, "if necessary, I'll do it."

—G. Gordon Liddy

Will

Now, it's fine with me if anyone wants to believe the utterly psychotic notion that the person Liddy and Hunt were plotting the murder of that day was a nationally famous columnist.

I don't.

And while I almost surely have not answered your question satisfactorily, I at least have brought you safely back to the dock. Watch your step.

Ashton

Edited October 17, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Ashton Gray]

Was the RV contract really the blackest and most covert CIA operation?

I invite you to search the length, width, and breadth of the oh-so-celebrated mid-1970s Congressionally-staged "exposés" of and "confessions" about the dirty deeds of CIA, including the Rockefeller dog-and-pony show and the vaunted Church Committee—held when the RV program was already three years into operation—and tell me how much you find about the black RV program that during those hearings was being run from the very shadow of the United States Capitol building where the dourly disapproving congressmen sat stinking up tax-bought chairs and decrying CIA hanky-panky.

Let me save you a whole lot of time: you won't find a syllable about it.

Does that answer your question?

Ashton

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Was the RV contract really the blackest and most covert CIA operation?

[snip for brevity]

Let me save you a whole lot of time: you won't find a syllable about it.

Does that answer your question?

Ashton

Yes. I'll also add for clarity - I give due importance to the work you've presented and in no way am I trying to lessen said importance by questioning the assertion; it's an aside to the main subject.

However, generally, I'm left to ponder what else exists that we know nothing about in the realm of all things CIA...things deeper and blacker perhaps..what exactly, I don't know. Can't even guess!! I'll not wrack what little brain I have any further on the subject.

Another question(s) -

Was the allusion to Scientologists/RV made by TRDT, the first time this occurred in relation to Watergate (that you are aware of)?

TRDT makes a strong case in the topic area of each post, ,mainly, though, to say that people didn't do what they said they did - nothing is offered as to why this should be the case. The Watergate fictions are disassembled and it seems nothing remains, not even motive...

The only inkling of something else at play is, of course, the odd footnote tantalisingly dropped by TRDT, which (if the answer to the above question is positive) you have made remarkable progress in giving substantial meaning to.

[John Simkin]

6. That Nixon despised L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology and never would have permitted the establishment of the Remote Viewing program the way it was set up by CIA two weeks after the Watergate indictments came down and all klieg lights were pointed straight at the White House

Nixon had disputes with lots of people. I cannot see the significance of this particular dispute. On your timeline you state:

Monday, 13 April 1953

CIA's Richard Helms

CIA Director Allen Dulles authorizes a new expanded mind-control program, MK-ULTRA, brainchild of Richard Helms, a high-ranking member of CIA's Clandestine Services. E. Howard Hunt is working at CIA headquarters at the time as a "chief of covert operations" under Clandestine Services.

My research suggests that MK-ULTRA was a Allen Dulles/Donald Ewen Cameron project. Dulles was first given the idea by Cameron when he was working for him at the OSS during the Second World War. In 1943 Cameron went to Canada and established the psychiatry department at Montreal's McGill University and director of the newly-created Allan Memorial Institute. It was here that the first mind-control experiments began.

See the following:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKcameronDE.htm

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10798

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9208

[Charles Drago]

"That Richard Nixon knew the actual reason for the Bay of Pigs operation and why E. Howard Hunt and his CIA co-conspirators insured that it was the resounding flop that it was[.]"

Ashton,

You are quite correct to understand the Bay of Pigs affair as a "perfect failure." As such, it stands both as a template for subsequent, similar operations (up to and including the invasion of Iraq, whose happy collaterals, like those in Cuba, somehow unexpectedly failed to welcome the invaders as liberators), and as a Rosetta Stone of sorts for the deciphering of a wide variety of secret agendas and methods.

Charles

Edited October 18, 2007 by Charles Drago

[Ashton Gray]

"That Richard Nixon knew the actual reason for the Bay of Pigs operation and why E. Howard Hunt and his CIA co-conspirators insured that it was the resounding flop that it was[.]"

Ashton,

You are quite correct to understand the Bay of Pigs affair as a "perfect failure." As such, it stands both as a template for subsequent, similar operations (up to and including the invasion of Iraq, whose happy collaterals, like those in Cuba, somehow unexpectedly failed to welcome the invaders as liberators), and as a Rosetta Stone of sorts for the deciphering of a wide variety of secret agendas and methods.

Charles

Charles, this is a theme about which I could write a book. (Wait a minute: in fact, I am writing a book about it.)

I don't want to go too far off into this theme in this particular thread, and it likely deserves its own (if you start it, I'll be there), so all I'll say at the moment is that to read Hunt's "Undercover" and Liddy's "Will" is to marvel that either of them ever got their pants on right-side out. To hear them tell it, it's The Three Stooges Do Political Espionage. Nothing they started ever was finished, and if it was "finished" somehow, it was a complete disaster. And of course the reason is because nothing they claimed they were doing ever was what they actually were doing, so of course none of it ever went anywhere.

Ashton

[Ashton Gray]

Was the allusion to Scientologists/RV made by TRDT, the first time this occurred in relation to Watergate (that you are aware of)?

Hi, Gary.

We still got to pull this taffy apart a little bit. As I said in response to Dawn (who seemed to have the same misapprehension) "The Real Deep Throat" (TRDT) never said anything at all about either Scientology or Scientologists (as such) or L. Ron Hubbard.

TRDT does make an allusion to Hunt and Liddy in relation to CIA's Cleve Backster and Ingo Swann—but never mentions that Swann was a Scientology OT.

TRDT does, in the last message, name both Hal Puthoff and Ingo Swann—but never mentions that both of them were Scientology OTs.

TRDT does point a long bony finger at CIA's Remote Viewing operation as being significantly connected to the Watergate fraud, but never says anything specific about Scientology being a part of it, or about the possibility of the kidnap and/or murder of L. Ron Hubbard having been the actual skulduggery afoot that was being covered up by the Memorial Day weekend Circus of Impossibilities.

TRDT does say that the Watergate principals actually were doing some very dirty work that weekend instead of monkeying around with Cubans at the Watergate. Was it wet work? TRDT doesn't say, but a reference to "the chair" seems to imply strongly that it was not penny-ante.

I hope that lays to rest any further confusion about TRDT having mentioned Scientology or Scientologist per se, because he/she/it did not. TRDT did (correctly) name two Scientology OTs who were central to the CIA's black program, but did not identify them as being Scientology OTs.

Having said all of that, I have to answer that as far as I know, the messages of "The Real Deep Throat" are, indeed, the first time a connection was made between the CIA's top secret Remote Viewing program and what we know as "Watergate." My own personal belief is that TRDT was leaving it to others to finish connecting the dots, and by the time the messages of TRDT appeared, lots of those dots already existed and were connected.

In order to insure that my last sentence above does not sit as a complete mystery, I have started a new topic in this forum: Press Releases of The Public Research Foundation.

That series of investigative reports came out in 1997, and as far as I can determine (so far), represent the first indication of the connection between Scientology and CIA's Remote Viewing program.

That predates the messages of "The Real Deep Throat" by seven years.

TRDT makes a strong case in the topic area of each post, ,mainly, though, to say that people didn't do what they said they did - nothing is offered as to why this should be the case.

The Watergate fictions are disassembled and it seems nothing remains, not even motive...

I can't say that I agree with you from my reading.

I find that TRDT scattered bread crumbs throughout the messages leading to CIA's Remote Viewing program as the underlying motivation.

I also find that TRDT says very bluntly and blatantly that the elaborate Memorial Day weekend idiocies "confessed" to by the perps were told only, as Dawn quoted, "to cover up their REAL crimes committed then - crimes far more vicious, far more heinous, far more odious, shocking, and abhorrent than anything ever uncovered in all the endless annals of Watergate."

I also find that TRDT revisits this theme of a cover-up (the CIA's) wrapped in a false cover-up (purportedly Nixon's and CReeP's):

"GEMSTONE was not an intelligence operation: it was only a COVER for a major intelligence operation."

—The Real Deep Throat

I'll give you this: the monolith in 2001: A Space Odessey ain't nothin' compared to this Watergate-Remote Viewing mess. Hell, that only had six sides. Encountering this is more like bumping into a star-sized one of these floating in space:

I invite you to read the press releases of The Public Research Foundation, and I believe you will find yourself staring deeply into other colorful facets of this giant mystery. But no matter how confusing the facets might at first seem, just as with the Great Rhombicuboctahedra above, they all, indeed, are connected.

Ashton

Edited November 20, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Ashton Gray]

On your timeline you state:

Monday, 13 April 1953

CIA's Richard Helms

CIA Director Allen Dulles authorizes a new expanded mind-control program, MK-ULTRA, brainchild of Richard Helms, a high-ranking member of CIA's Clandestine Services. E. Howard Hunt is working at CIA headquarters at the time as a "chief of covert operations" under Clandestine Services.

My research suggests that MK-ULTRA was a Allen Dulles/Donald Ewen Cameron project. Dulles was first given the idea by Cameron when he was working for him at the OSS during the Second World War. In 1943 Cameron went to Canada and established the psychiatry department at Montreal's McGill University and director of the newly-created Allan Memorial Institute. It was here that the first mind-control experiments began.

Without wishing to detract in any slightest way from the focus on Ewen Cameron's butchery and its influence on the development of CIA's atrocities in relation to mind control, my primary source for characterizing MK/ULTRA as having been "the brainchild of Richard Helms" is a Church Committee report with the windy title of "94TH Congress, 2d Session Senate Report No. 94-755, Foreign and Military Intelligence, Book I, Final Report of the Select Committee To Study Govermental Operation With Respect To Intelligence Activities, which says in pertinent part:

MKULTRA began with a proposal from the Assistant Deputy Director for Plans, Richard Helms, to the DCI, outlining a special funding mechanism for highly sensitive CIA research and development projects that studied the use of biological and chemical materials in altering human behavior. The projects involved:

"Research to develop a capability in the covert use of biological and chemical materials. This area involves production of various physiological conditions which could support present or future clandestine operations. Aside from the offensive potential, the development of a comprehensive ability in this field of covert chemical and biological warfare gives us a thorough knowledge of the enemy's theoretical potential, thus enabling us to defend ourselves against a foe who might not be as restrained in the use of these techniques as we are."

MKULTRA was approved by the DCI on April 13, 1953 along the lines proposed by ADDP Helms.

The actual "brainchild" language pursuant to the above is attributable to Martin Lee and Bruce Shlain in their book (which has almost as windy a title), "Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond."

Ashton

Edited October 18, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Was the allusion to Scientologists/RV made by TRDT, the first time this occurred in relation to Watergate (that you are aware of)?

Hi, Gary.

We still got to pull this taffy apart a little bit. As I said in response to Dawn (who seemed to have the same misapprehension) "The Real Deep Throat" (TRDT) never said anything at all about either Scientology or Scientologists (as such) or L. Ron Hubbard.

TRDT does make an allusion to Hunt and Liddy in relation to CIA's Cleve Bakster and Ingo Swann—but never mentions that Swann was a Scientology OT.

TRDT does, in the last message, name both Hal Puthoff and Ingo Swann—but never mentions that both of them were Scientology OTs.

TRDT does point a long bony finger at CIA's Remote Viewing operation as being significantly connected to the Watergate fraud, but never says anything specific about Scientology being a part of it, or about the possibility of the kidnap and/or murder of L. Ron Hubbard having been the actual skulduggery afoot that was being covered up by the Memorial Day weekend Circus of Impossibilities.

TRDT does say that the Watergate principals actually were doing some very dirty work that weekend instead of monkeying around with Cubans at the Watergate. Was it wet work? TRDT doesn't say, but a reference to "the chair" seems to imply strongly that it was not penny-ante.

I hope that lays to rest any further confusion about TRDT having mentioned Scientology or Scientologist per se, because he/she/it did not. TRDT did (correctly) name two Scientology OTs who were central to the CIA's black program, but did not identify them as being Scientology OTs.

...

I invite you to read the press releases of The Public Research Foundation, and I believe you will find yourself staring deeply into other colorful facets of this giant mystery. But no matter how confusing the facets might at first seem, just as with the Great Rhombicuboctahedra above, they all, indeed, are connected.

Ashton

Hi Ashton,

Point taken and understood. I would like to point out that I used the word allusion with reference to Scientologists (not Scientlogy) with consideration. Mentioning Swann in the way that TRDT does makes little sense - until one realises who Swann was and what he brought to the table of RV - unless one considers it to be an indirect or implied reference. To reiterate, though, point taken and understood.

Now off to this other thread to, likely, be taxed ( a pun? ) and vexed further.

Gary

[Ashton Gray]

Was the allusion to Scientologists/RV made by TRDT, the first time this occurred in relation to Watergate (that you are aware of)?

[Ashton long-winded yap was here: mercifully removed in this reprise by its author.—A.G.]

Hi Ashton,

Point taken and understood. I would like to point out that I used the word allusion with reference to Scientologists (not Scientlogy) with consideration. Mentioning Swann in the way that TRDT does makes little sense - until one realises who Swann was and what he brought to the table of RV - unless one considers it to be an indirect or implied reference. To reiterate, though, point taken and understood.

[Very, very small]>>> Oh.

Heh. Sorry, Gary: didn't mean to beat you senseless with something you already understood. I see now how you were using "allusion" in perfectly proper sense and reference.

Maybe just as well, though, that the point has been put up in neon lights for any who follow and might not understand the subtlety. My opinion is that TRDT probably knew very well what he/she/it was actually pointing a long bony finger toward in the allusions to Swann and Puthoff, so your choice of "allusion" was le mot juste.

Since I'm here, though, and have done my mea culpas for gross overclarification, I think I'm going to take this opportunity to post to this thread two anonymous messages that appeared in several usenet groups in April 2004, about three months after the series posted by "The Real Deep Throat." I've been iffy about posting them because there are some very large assertions in them, many of which have no independent confirmation or documentation whatsoever that I am aware of. On the other hand, they also contain pointers to names and events that decidedly have borne fruit in my own continuing research.

However, between the two messages—the second being a response to the first—they reflect obliquely at times and very directly at other times on the same issues and events that are express or implied in the "Real Deep Throat" series. So here goes, for what it's worth.

This first message, called "28th May 1972," was posted in several usenet newsgroups on 6 April 2004:

From: Frog <FrogRemailer@bigfoot.com>

Message-ID: <OSQARPQ938083.49375@Gilgamesh-Frog.org>

Subject: 28th May 1972

Newsgroups: misc.legal

Date: 6 Apr 2004 11:52:38 +0100

Comments: This message probably did not originate from the above address. It was automatically remailed by one or more anonymous mail services.

Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was taken out on 28th May 1972 by agents working for and with American Central Intelligence under the direction of Richard Helms. The staging area was Morocco. American and Moroccan government assets, transportation and logistics were utilised in the job. CIA assets were assisted by two United States Special Forces agents who had been tasked earlier in Viet Nam for the operation and subsequently had been insinuated into the Scientology organisation in positions close to Hubbard, plus a third distanced from the task. Also assisting were CIA-placed embassy personnel in Morocco, Madrid and Copenhagen, as well as several operatives of the Commonwealth in mission-critical positions within the Scientology organisation.

The job was architected to coincide with the international focus provided by Richard Nixon's trip to Moscow. Because of the extreme nature of the international crime an alibi for the dates surrounding 28th May 1972 was planned and provided by CIA to its senior assets involved in the Hubbard task. The alibi was accomplished using a group of Cuban CIA operatives and served the collateral purpose of eliminating a political figure who would have encumbered CIA plans for the aftermath of the operation.

The alibi for the mission dates relied on self- and mutually-incriminating testimony by the Cubans and by the senior CIA assets concerning more minor illegal activities far away from the staging area where the senior CIA assets had in fact been on and around 28th May 1972, carrying out the Hubbard mission. In order that the alibi be impenetrable it led, as planned, to the conviction of the Cubans, and of the senior CIA assets as well, on criminal charges with minimal penalties under conditions prearranged by Helms et al. All eventually were compensated for their trouble, some of them handsomely. CIA control of the legal matters was coordinated through Gall, Lane, Powell & Kilcullen (later Lane Powell Spears Lubersky LLP).

To commemorate for themselves their successful operation, which culminated in the termination of Hubbard, the principals arranged through Meade Emory of Lane Powell to have the Church of Spiritual Technology incorporated on the tenth anniversary of the task, 28th May 1982, in order that the corporation be final and sole beneficiary of the Hubbard estate under their governance.

Persons still closely associated with intelligence and defence in the United States and even intimately related to the present administration were complicit in the planning and execution of the task itself as well as in the subsequent leveraging and exploitation of Hubbard's material in intelligence and defence programmes and activities internationally.

The second anonymous message, below, was posted on 10 April 2004 in response to the one above. This copy that was sent to me came from alt.politics. Our own Douglas Caddy is mentioned by the poster, along with quite a few other names. I have a note about the Caddy reference at the end:

From: Anonymous <BigappleRemailer@Optonline.Net>

Date: 10 Apr 2004 06:26:36 -0000

Message-ID: <QHFFN85438087.1018055556@anonymous>

Subject: Re: 28th May 1972

Newsgroups: alt.politics

References: <3c3b539a826d094f525209c0f1990c2f@mixmaster.it>

Comments: This message did not originate from the above address. It was remailed by two or more anonymous mail services.

Sun, 4 Apr 2004 George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote:

> Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was taken out on 28th May

> 1972 by agents working for and with American Central

> Intelligence under the direction of Richard Helms. The

> staging area was Morocco. American and Moroccan government

> assets, transportation and logistics were utilised in the

> job. CIA assets were assisted by two United States Special

> Forces agents who had been tasked earlier in Viet Nam for the

> operation and subsequently had been insinuated into the

> Scientology organisation in positions close to Hubbard,

Tabayoyon, Preston

> plus

> a third distanced from the task.

Aznaran, unless there was someone else

You know who did the tasking in Nam, don't you? Same dude who went to Japan and set up Gary Snyder to ghost "Hymn of Asia." (Snyder was thick with the raving psycho Burroughs who murdered his wife in Mexico and got away with it and helped club-foot set up the company's LSD experiments.) Then the same dude tripped the wire that set up "The Plumbers" under Krogh, an Emory buddy from Seattle. You going to take this all the way?

> Also assisting were

> CIA-placed embassy personnel in Morocco, Madrid and

> Copenhagen,

CIA'a Galbraith was part of that lot. Went by William and Jack. Entered the White House on June 16, 1971, on pretext of being one of the "officers of the White House News Photographers Association" who were having a meeting with Nixon that day. This was immediately after Liddy had been moved over to room 16 in the old Exec Office building with the CIA hotline and scrambler under Krogh and Young. Met with Liddy and less than a month later was in Safi Morocco meeting with Starkey and co. over the Meister murder ("suicide"), July 13,1971. Briefing them on what was coming down the pike really. Same day Hassan Deuce executed the leaders of the 1971 coup attempt on tv.

In the '72 Hubbard job Copenhagen was reporting to Pat Gray. Hoover had been taken out by Baldwin on May 2, 1972. Baldwin reported in to McCord the same day. Gray was put in to replace Hoover and was in the loop. McCord sent Baldwin north to Maryland to set up the Wallace hit for two weeks later, on May 15, because Wallace had to be gotten out of the picture or the Hubbard job couldn't go down. They blew it, but Wallace was hurt bad enough that he was out and the Hubbard op got a green light.

> as well as several operatives of the Commonwealth

> in mission-critical positions within the Scientology

> organisation.

Starkey, Kember, Urquhart, Armstrong, Laurel Watson, Kima whoever, Eltringham, Mayo, some others with deep cover.

> The job was architected to coincide with the international

> focus provided by Richard Nixon's trip to Moscow. Because of

> the extreme nature of the international crime an alibi for

> the dates surrounding 28th May 1972 was planned and provided

> by CIA to its senior assets involved in the Hubbard task. The

> alibi was accomplished using a group of Cuban CIA operatives

> and served the collateral purpose of eliminating a political

> figure who would have encumbered CIA plans for the aftermath

> of the operation.

>

> The alibi for the mission dates relied on self- and

> mutually-incriminating testimony by the Cubans and by the

> senior CIA assets concerning more minor illegal activities

> far away from the staging area where the senior CIA assets

> had in fact been on and around 28th May 1972, carrying out

> the Hubbard mission. In order that the alibi be impenetrable

> it led, as planned, to the conviction of the Cubans, and of

> the senior CIA assets as well, on criminal charges with

> minimal penalties under conditions prearranged by Helms et

> al. All eventually were compensated for their trouble, some

> of them handsomely.

The posts of "THE REAL DEEP THROAT" a few months ago blew that whole scam wide open. I read that I knew "uh-oh here we go."

> CIA control of the legal matters was

> coordinated through Gall, Lane, Powell & Kilcullen (later

> Lane Powell Spears Lubersky LLP).

One CIA asset from Gall, Lane, Powell & Kilcullen was Douglas Caddy, very thick with Robert Bennett and Hunt. Caddy was the hook-up to Emory who was connected with Lane Powell while legislation attorney for the Joint Committee on Taxation, which was the same time all this was going down. Emory started the tax litigation ball rolling on the Hubbard groups as soon as Hubbard was in the bag. He got paid off later with the Ass't. Commish job at IRS and ran the whole GO document gag for CIA from there.

> To commemorate for themselves their successful operation,

> which culminated in the termination of Hubbard, the

> principals arranged through Meade Emory of Lane Powell to

> have the Church of Spiritual Technology incorporated on the

> tenth anniversary of the task, 28th May 1982, in order that

> the corporation be final and sole beneficiary of the Hubbard

> estate under their governance.

>

> Persons still closely associated with intelligence and

> defence in the United States and even intimately related to

> the present administration were complicit in the planning and

> execution of the task itself as well as in the subsequent

> leveraging and exploitation of Hubbard's material in

> intelligence and defence programmes and activities

> internationally.

Bush Sr. was deep cover CIA doing the diplomat gig, and got bumped to US ambassador to the U.N. in '72 and was in the loop on the Hubbard job and the embassy traffic on it. So he later got bumped to DCI.

I never thought I'd see the lid come off this one. What I want to know is if Blair is blowing it open because of all the stink on Iraq now or if it's a lower leak. The Brits have their own stink on the Hubbard trick and I don't see the upside.

-=-

This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

About the Caddy reference: In June of last year, I asked Douglas Caddy about Meade Emory, and he replied: "I do not recognize the name of Meade Emory, and for that reason am unaware of any role that he played in whatever matter you apparently have in mind."

There are so many hints, clues, and pointers in the above two posts, when coupled with the messages of "The Real Deep Throat," and when further coupled with the press releases of the Public Research Foundation, that perhaps you can see why I likened it all to the Great Rhombicuboctahedra.

Just one of the events that really has made an indelible impression on me, though, is the 17 August 1972 brutal execution of Muhammad Oufkir, Defense Minister for Morocco—which of course was reported as a "suicide" in the wake of a failed assassination attempt on his boss, King Hussan II, in which Oufkir purportedly was the leader.

In case you're wondering if your eyes failed you, no, none of the messages of "The Real Deep Throat" or the two other posts in this message mention Oufkir by name or this event. It came out of subsequent research, pulling some of the strings whose loose ends hang out in all the above. If, in fact, Moroccon officials had been involved with CIA on such a black and wet operation in late May 1972 as is alleged in the first of the above two posts, it couldn't possibly have been done without Oufkir's participation and knowledge.

Of course the "attempt" on Hussan II (in which the attack planes had been loaded somehow with—wait for it—blanks) and Oufkir's "suicide" (in which he was shot repeatedly from behind, one bullet blowing out one of his eyes and his sunglasses, according to later revelations by an eyewitness) happened right in the middle of "Watergate," after the 17 June 1972 arrests, and almost exactly one month before the indictments were handed down on 15 September 1972.

Just days before Oufkir's "suicide," on 14 August 1972, representatives from CIA's Operational Technology Division (OTD) and Office of Research and Development (ORD) had been busy conducting experiments in extrasensory perception at Stanford Research Institute (SRI) with Scientology OT Ingo Swann under the oversight and coordination of Scientology OT Hal Puthoff. Swann's results were "so startlingly accurate" that the OTD and ORD representatives suggested that the work be continued and expanded. CIA's Sidney Gottlieb reviewed the data, approved another $2,500 work order, and "encouraged the development of a more complete research plan."

Then over in Morocco, Oufkir got his head mostly blown off for him.

I think I'll leave it there for now.

Ashton

Edited October 19, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Guest John Gillespie]

Ashton,

Incredible as this may read, it is great to see that there phizzog on these screens, with apologies to Carl Sandburg. Le Chapeau is another matter. I've been conducting a little remote viewing of my own; you know, like, trying to envision what lies beneath said haberdashery. Truth to tell I see a type of email, er, signature. Yeah, that's it...a verrrrrry loooooong signature.

Now, to the matters at hand. As we've discussed, these cretins who create the plans and handle the other cretins are Master chess players with massive egos and are very sensitive to peer competition. One of their traits, perhaps the most notable, is always trying to one-up each other by accomplishing two or more missions with the same stone. I know; take my bio, please. A familiarity with the works of Victor Marchetti and David C. Martin will provide an appreciation of how and why people like Jesus James Angleton self destructed into sheer madness. It will also give insight into the mindset of Langley.

"Silent Coup:..." and "Secret Agenda:..." were both great books. Somebody's recent posting pooh-poohed the former and added that there was someting they missed, or something was missing, etc. Hougan, on the other hand was very close, apparently, and I apologize for the simplistic nutshell here. He decided to examine the break-in (6/17/72) itself and alluded to things that his investigative expertise regarding the CIA had pushed him towards (As somewhat of an aside, I'll note here that he also referred to the smuggling of gold bullion to Vietnam: first as it involved Mr. Pennington and the second referral involving Nixon. He also seemed to have more than an inkling about the George Wallace assassination attempt. Unfortunately, he didn't want to elaborate.). But in trying to nail down motive and the end game he ended up rationalizing while seemingly having nowhere else to go. Again, sorry for the precis.

Yes, something was missing. AND THIS IS IT, DAMMIT. That's why I jumped right into your corner after the first few dispatches next to that photo only a mother could love.

All The Best,

JG

p.s. I submitted a very nice, though dated, photo of me standing on a slip at Lake Tahoe, circa late Nineties. If we're able to post, see if you can make out the Fredo assassination in the background. But that's for another thread.

Edited October 22, 2007 by John Gillespie