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Ashton Gray

There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat

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This thread is wandering all over the place in a manner unresponsive to

Ashton's initial proposition:

THE NECKTIE WAS IN THE PATH OF ANY BULLET FROM THE FRONT.

All messages which do not address that proposition are off-topic in my

opinion.

I am still looking for the slide I showed the HSCA in 1978 illustrating

this same thing, and will send it to Ashton when I find it, and he

may post it as a comparison to his illustration.

There is NO POSSIBILITY that a frontal bullet pierced the collar.

There is a very slight possibility that a glass sliver penetrated the

collar causing a "slit" in the fabric...but very slight.

I suggest that all responses to Ashton stick to the proposition that

a bullet did not penetrate the necktie.

Jack

*********

From Jack.....

B...

I protest that the image I asked Bernice to post has been

deleted. On my screen, the only thing below Bernice's message

is a large white square with nothing in it. It was the two slides

I showed the HSCA regarding NO HOLE IN THE TIE KNOT, in

response to Ashton's thread. I can conceive of no reason to

censor this image.

Jack

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Jack White Posted Today, 06:03 AM

QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Oct 23 2007, 04:58 AM)

QUOTE(Jack White @ Oct 22 2007, 08:30 PM)

This thread is wandering all over the place in a manner unresponsive to

Ashton's initial proposition:

THE NECKTIE WAS IN THE PATH OF ANY BULLET FROM THE FRONT.

All messages which do not address that proposition are off-topic in my

opinion.

I am still looking for the slide I showed the HSCA in 1978 illustrating

this same thing, and will send it to Ashton when I find it, and he

may post it as a comparison to his illustration.

There is NO POSSIBILITY that a frontal bullet pierced the collar.

There is a very slight possibility that a glass sliver penetrated the

collar causing a "slit" in the fabric...but very slight.

I suggest that all responses to Ashton stick to the proposition that

a bullet did not penetrate the necktie.

Jack

*********

From Jack.....

B...

I protest that the image I asked Bernice to post has been

deleted. On my screen, the only thing below Bernice's message

is a large white square with nothing in it. It was the two slides

I showed the HSCA regarding NO HOLE IN THE TIE KNOT, in

response to Ashton's thread. I can conceive of no reason to

censor this image.

Jack

Jack, Please ask Bernice to try again.

I would be really surprised if someone had altered the post, besides, when this is done it will say someting like (in bold print, small font, at the bottom of the post): "last edit by FIRSTNAME LASTNAME time, date".

EDIT: Just viewed Bernice's post with the photo attachments from you Jack. Looks fine on my computer?!?!

Edited by Antti Hynonen

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A slightly different view of JFK's bloody shirt with some damage visible below the collar button.

Courtesy of FBI?

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Jack White Posted Today, 06:03 AM

QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Oct 23 2007, 04:58 AM)

QUOTE(Jack White @ Oct 22 2007, 08:30 PM)

This thread is wandering all over the place in a manner unresponsive to

Ashton's initial proposition:

THE NECKTIE WAS IN THE PATH OF ANY BULLET FROM THE FRONT.

All messages which do not address that proposition are off-topic in my

opinion.

I am still looking for the slide I showed the HSCA in 1978 illustrating

this same thing, and will send it to Ashton when I find it, and he

may post it as a comparison to his illustration.

There is NO POSSIBILITY that a frontal bullet pierced the collar.

There is a very slight possibility that a glass sliver penetrated the

collar causing a "slit" in the fabric...but very slight.

I suggest that all responses to Ashton stick to the proposition that

a bullet did not penetrate the necktie.

Jack

*********

From Jack.....

B...

I protest that the image I asked Bernice to post has been

deleted. On my screen, the only thing below Bernice's message

is a large white square with nothing in it. It was the two slides

I showed the HSCA regarding NO HOLE IN THE TIE KNOT, in

response to Ashton's thread. I can conceive of no reason to

censor this image.

Jack

Jack, Please ask Bernice to try again.

I would be really surprised if someone had altered the post, besides, when this is done it will say someting like (in bold print, small font, at the bottom of the post): "last edit by FIRSTNAME LASTNAME time, date".

EDIT: Just viewed Bernice's post with the photo attachments from you Jack. Looks fine on my computer?!?!

Thanks, Antti...but on my computer...SIX HOURS LATER, the image is not there, and

in fact, THE ENTIRITY OF PAGE THREE HAS DISAPPEARED EXCEPT FOR A SINGLE

POSTING! All the other pages in the thread are just fine, except for page three, which

contains Bernice's image. I am forced to believe that someone is messing around

with me using some computer technology not recognized by the forum, forcing me to

register constant complaints about messages not appearing.

Jack

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Jack White Posted Today, 11:26 AM

Thanks, Antti...but on my computer...SIX HOURS LATER, the image is not there, and

in fact, THE ENTIRITY OF PAGE THREE HAS DISAPPEARED EXCEPT FOR A SINGLE

POSTING! All the other pages in the thread are just fine, except for page three, which

contains Bernice's image. I am forced to believe that someone is messing around

with me using some computer technology not recognized by the forum, forcing me to

register constant complaints about messages not appearing.

Jack

Sorry Jack, I don't know how to help you. I can see all pages just fine and can also see the attachments. Perhaps you can try another computer somewhere sometime? I bet your troubles will disappear with that trick.

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Antti (and others) re the photo you posted.

I cannot see any hole completely through the shirt.

Am I missing something?

Are there any photos of the tie?

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(Posting Jack White's slides prepared for HSCA)

From Jack.....

B...

Thanks very much Jack, and thank you, Bernice, for posting them. Very interesting set of images.

Ashton

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A slightly different view of JFK's bloody shirt with some damage visible below the collar button.

Courtesy of FBI?

Thanks, Antti, for the image.

Ashton

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Jack White Posted Today, 11:26 AM

Thanks, Antti...but on my computer...SIX HOURS LATER, the image is not there, and

in fact, THE ENTIRITY OF PAGE THREE HAS DISAPPEARED EXCEPT FOR A SINGLE

POSTING! All the other pages in the thread are just fine, except for page three, which

contains Bernice's image. I am forced to believe that someone is messing around

with me using some computer technology not recognized by the forum, forcing me to

register constant complaints about messages not appearing.

Jack

Sorry Jack, I don't know how to help you. I can see all pages just fine and can also see the attachments. Perhaps you can try another computer somewhere sometime? I bet your troubles will disappear with that trick.

Antti...I just checked again and page three of this thread is still missing.

You seem to be a reasonable man. Stop and ask yourself some reasonable

questions.

WHY IS ONE PAGE, AND ONLY ONE PAGE, MISSING FROM THIS THREAD?

Why are no pages missing from any other threads? Why can other persons

see this page and Jack White cannot? Why is it a page which I prepared

specially for the benefit of Ashton and asked Bernice to post...and as soon

as she posted it I checked, and the image space was blank, and now the

entire page three is empty except for ONE message? Are these not

interesting questions?

Along with these questions, ask yourself why seven messages posted by

Jack White cannot be seen on his computer, yet moderators insist that

none of his messages have been deleted.

Do you not see a pattern here targeting an individual, provoking protests

which make Jack White appear to be a trouble maker?

I am not making any of this up!

Jack

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If your favorite indoor sport is trying to figure out or "prove" whether the purported bullet wound that "everybody knows" was in John F. Kennedy's throat was an inny or an outty, this article is useless to you, so please pass on by and find something else to do.

It doesn't work that way around here.

But out of respect for you, Brother Ashton, I will simply note

a far more compelling counter-argument and withdraw.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u3uH7FHjCeQ

Well, I guess it's only fitting that such snake-handling faith-based front-shot fervor would be the work product of somebody named "Jesus."

If that's "respect" for me, I think I've had about all the respect I can absorb, so count me out of the "Brother"hood.

The G. Jesus Hairball Cough-Up video is garbage. The only reason I'm responding to this nonsense at all is an attempt to keep any more people from falling into the endless punji pits dug by the "Front Shot Faithful."

Gil Jesus didn't bother to look past what he wanted to see, and is too damned blinded by religious zeal to notice that at all relevant times in the little snippet of the Zapruder film that he latched onto like a snapping turtle and wouldn't let go of, Kennedy's tie is hidden by the right side of his coat as a result of his right arm being held up high, as, e.g., Zapruder 237 shows:

zapruder237coat-tie.jpg

And, as night follows day—while Front Shot Faithful hold hands and sing "I Shall Not Be Moved" and two choruses of "He Was Clutching at His Throat"— the continuity of the film, once Kennedy's right arm comes down and the right side of the coat is no longer blocking the view of the tie, proves conclusively to anybody who gives a tinker's dam about the truth that the tie, at all relevant times, has been sitting right where it would be expected:

zapruder253coat-tie.jpg

zapruder255coat-tie.jpg

zapruder256coat-tie.jpg

I'm not responding to any more of this junk. If anybody wants to discuss any rational aspects of the evidence, let me know.

Meanwhile, I've made my record.

Ashton

Edited by Ashton Gray

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Jack White Posted Today, 12:40 PM

Antti...I just checked again and page three of this thread is still missing.

You seem to be a reasonable man. Stop and ask yourself some reasonable

questions.

WHY IS ONE PAGE, AND ONLY ONE PAGE, MISSING FROM THIS THREAD?

Why are no pages missing from any other threads? Why can other persons

see this page and Jack White cannot? Why is it a page which I prepared

specially for the benefit of Ashton and asked Bernice to post...and as soon

as she posted it I checked, and the image space was blank, and now the

entire page three is empty except for ONE message? Are these not

interesting questions?

Along with these questions, ask yourself why seven messages posted by

Jack White cannot be seen on his computer, yet moderators insist that

none of his messages have been deleted.

Do you not see a pattern here targeting an individual, provoking protests

which make Jack White appear to be a trouble maker?

I am not making any of this up!

Jack

Jack, I can see your frustration and definitely there is a pattern. However, there is nothing that I know of that I can do to change this. Now, this thread is about "There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat", lets try and keep it on topic. Thanks.

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Antti...I just checked again and page three of this thread is still missing.

You seem to be a reasonable man. Stop and ask yourself some reasonable

questions.

WHY IS ONE PAGE, AND ONLY ONE PAGE, MISSING FROM THIS THREAD?

Why are no pages missing from any other threads? Why can other persons

see this page and Jack White cannot? Why is it a page which I prepared

specially for the benefit of Ashton and asked Bernice to post...and as soon

as she posted it I checked, and the image space was blank, and now the

entire page three is empty except for ONE message? Are these not

interesting questions?

Along with these questions, ask yourself why seven messages posted by

Jack White cannot be seen on his computer, yet moderators insist that

none of his messages have been deleted.

Do you not see a pattern here targeting an individual, provoking protests

which make Jack White appear to be a trouble maker?

I am not making any of this up!

Jack

I would say somebody try to drive you crazy. Go to an Internet cafe log in with your password and name and have a look. If you can see the images there, somebody plays with your IP.

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I'm suggesting the possibility that a device similar to the piercing needle I pictured above could have been employed, and in very short order indeed. I am suggesting that if some similar device had been used—either during the removal of the clothing, or even before it was removed, by sliding such a device between the shirt plackets under the tie—it would have produced a wound consistent with descriptions by all eyewitnesses.

I believe that if such a device had in fact been used, it most likely would have been employed to administer a large quantity of some kind of toxin that would have been completely unsuspected, yet known to be fatal, and for which there was no existing test for detection in a human.

You could be right. Having a backup contingency like this is logical because the planners could not be certain that a kill shot would be made.

Assuming toxin was administered, then the SS would be my chief suspect.

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Double-post from forum time-out. Please delete. Actual post immediately below.

Edited by Ashton Gray

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The "Anti-Ashton" in the rakish green beret has resurrected—for about the sixtieth time, in yet another thread where he posts message after message after message talking to himself—his DOA "case" that a bullet fragment exited the throat of John F. Kennedy, causing what the resident intelligence agent from the Green Berets calls "The Anterior Neck Wound".

Now, I will be the first to admit that the resident Green Beret spook's long dialogs with self are so disjointed and confusing that it practically is impossible for any mere mortal to figure out what the hell he's raging on with himself about. But I have made a very close study of his strident claims, so please allow me to blow away pages and pages of smoke for you, and pages and pages about missing tree limbs, and allow me to bring his key piece of "evidence" for his claims about what made the hole in John F. Kennedy's throat out here to you in a petri dish held with long tongs for you to view. So here it is, and please pay very close attention:

...[W]hen the HSCA went to re-examine the JFK evidence...the cone-shaped; flat-based; 0.9grain weight fragment had disappeared.

:unsure::blink:

Now, I know what you're thinking: "Waaaaaaaaaaait a minute," you're thinking to yourself. "Ashton is pullin' our leg here! He's holding out an empty petri dish with long tongs. That ain't what old Purvis is claiming made the hole in John F. Kennedy's throat!"

Welllll...yes. I'm afraid it is. Yes, I'm afraid that it's another no-see-um. It is a not-ness. It is a no-thing. It's a "poofy." What you see in the proffered petri dish—which is nothing—is the precise thing around which our resident government intelligence agent has whipped up a perfect storm of forum pages running into the high hundreds if not thousands of pages.

And who do we have to thank for the only apparent record ever of the existence—or purported existence—of any such "cone-shaped; flat-based; 0.9grain weight fragment" having been part of the actual detritus from the shooting, upon which purported bullet fragment the resident intelligence agent now hangs his green beret, and which purported bullet fragment the resident spook claims made the hole in JFK's throat?

Why, the Warren Commission, of course, run by the most vicious party-line CIA ghouls who ever plagued the ground they walked on.

If that patented spook-generated no-see-um ain't good enough for you, Warren Commission Exhibit 840—where the purported fragment once allegedly resided before disappearing into thin air—is a patented spook-gimmick twosie: there's one photo of "CE 840" showing three fragments (without in-photo ruler or in-photo labeling), and another "CE 840" image showing only two fragments (with in-photo ruler and in-photo labeling).

And despite all the hundreds (or thousands) of spooky pages raging on and on and on and on and on about a no-see-um that purportedly made a hole in John F. Kennedy's throat, the laws of physics still remain: just as no bullet could have entered JFK's throat at the claimed location without going through fifteen layers of tie fabric and four layers of shirt fabric, no bullet possibly could have exited JFK's throat at the claimed location without going through fifteen layers of tie fabric and four layers of shirt fabric.

There was no bullet wound in John F. Kennedy's throat. Period.

Ashton Gray

Edited by Ashton Gray

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