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Ashton Gray

There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat

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JFK+TIE+BULHOLE.jpg

...This is a nick rather than a hole in the tie, right?

...If you rotate the above photo 90 degrees clockwise (as you did in the GIF that follows), as a tie goes horizontally around the knot, that would put the blood-stain (and burn mark I would argue), slightly on the back side of the knot. IF the nick were on the side. Small potatoes, that. I just wonder if this closeup photo of the tie on JFK was THAT morning, because it looks like the nick and stain(s) should be one vertical row of icons to JFK's left.

Hi, Roy. Yes, that is a nick, not a hole (the latter assertion being just more disinformation), and what you have suggested is a perfectly reasonable possibility—not small potatoes at all. I originally attempted to do that version, too, but because of extremely compressed time, I only did the animation that I posted. Attempting to "stretch" the flat tie-with-nick image so that it conforms to the "knot" shape, while trying NOT (pun unavoidable) to prejudicially distort evidence, and trying to get the icons to properly align, is an enormously time-consuming and tedious task. If no one else will do it, I promise that I will get back to it as soon as I can find breathing time. Perhaps now that the banshees have been banned from my view, I will be able to. Although there are also other complications that arose in attempting to do it the way you suggest, which I will take up later.

Thanks for your interest and rational discussion.

Ashton

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Roy, I'm replying separately to two separate parts of your message:

...this topic is great about clarifying the bullet wound that is, was, and always will be in JFK's throat.

Cliff Varnell #757: Linda Willis testimony, "...first turned from waving,...grabbed his throat and kind of slumped forward."

Nellie Connally: "It was just a frightening noise and it came from the right. (Trans: it passed by HER right. She didn't know the origin. I believe this shot, the first to hit inside the limo, came from the South Knoll, Over Greer's left ear, might have nicked the roof support, making "a frightening noise" [along with the sonic boom] and causing it to land lower than the gunman was sighting, into "lower anterior third" of JFK's neck, instead of his head. OR just because Greer was slowing so much, THAT could have made the bullet lower than intended.)

Nellie (cont.): she turned right "and saw the President as he had both hands at his NECK." "no utterance, no cry" (She didn't hear him exclaim "My God, I'm hit" because the "frightening noise" briefly deafened her OR she was scared temporarily deaf OR she was l***g)

Nellie finish: "...and he just sort of slumped down." Which corroborates Linda Willis and everyone else who saw him

The statement that there was a "bullet wound" in JFK's throat is prejudicial and biased. It has never been proven. There was a wound in JFK's throat, period. It is impossible, by all the laws of physics, that it could have been from a bullet or missile.

Every single witness who testified that JFK clutched or grabbed at his throat—and they can be counted on the fingers of one hand—did so ONLY AFTER THEIR TESTIMONY HAD BEEN PREJUDICED BY PERRY'S FALSE CLAIM TO THE WORLD, IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE, THAT THERE HAD BEEN A BULLET ENTRANCE WOUND TO JFK'S THROAT.

I'm going to repeat that so that no one reading here, no matter how dull or IQ challenged, can ever claim not to know it:

Every single witness who testified that JFK clutched or grabbed at his throat—and they can be counted on the fingers of one hand—did so ONLY AFTER THEIR TESTIMONY HAD BEEN PREJUDICED BY PERRY'S FALSE CLAIM TO THE WORLD, IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE, THAT THERE HAD BEEN A BULLET ENTRANCE WOUND TO THE THROAT.

Now anyone who comes again into this thread parroting those PREJUDICED witness statements, and does not acknowledge that those "eyewitness" accounts were PREJUDICED BY PERRY'S CLAIM, will join Prudhomme and Varnell in less time than it took for JFK's clenched fists to fly up IN FRONT OF HIS FACE, because to refuse to acknowledge the PREJUDICE that Perry had created is unspeakable dishonesty with the facts.

Ashton

Edited by Ashton Gray

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I'm going to repeat that so that no one reading here, no matter how dull or IQ challenged, can ever claim not to know it:

Every single witness who testified that JFK clutched or grabbed at his throat—and they can be counted on the fingers of one hand—did so ONLY AFTER THEIR TESTIMONY HAD BEEN PREJUDICED BY PERRY'S FALSE CLAIM TO THE WORLD, IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE, THAT THERE HAD BEEN A BULLET ENTRANCE WOUND TO THE THROAT.

In which Ashton Gray performs a Vulcan Mind Meld with the Dealey Plaza witnesses and declares their sworn statements invalid on no rational basis whatsoever other than the say so of Ashton Gray.

Perry had some mystical power over Linda Willis, Nellie Connally, and Clint Hill?

Only because Ashton Gray's Pet Theory depends on it.

Similar to his certainty that the brace wrapped around JFK's waist caused the hands to reflexively move in front of the throat.

It is because Ashton Gray sez so.

Interesting fact: Gray has no problem with Specter hectoring witnesses to describe a hypothetical throat exit wound but any testimony inconvenient to Gray's Pet Theory is PREJUDICED.

So JFK's killers wanted to set Oswald up as the lone assassin?

So why create a fake wound in the throat which the lone assassin could not have possibly inflicted?

You actually think this nonsense thru, Ashton?

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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Here is likely the best evidence of the throat wound being an exit wound for a bullet, a fragment of a bullet, or a component of a type of frangible bullet. This is from Lt. Richard Lipsey, aide to General Wehe, who sat through almost the entire autopsy and enbalming procedure, 12-15 feet from JFK's corpse, and who was able to listen to the entire autopsy discussion between Humes, Finck and Boswell,

"Q: Getting back to the entrances you just stated one exit you believed was on the right hand side of the head. Now what about the other entrances, what about the corresponding exits if there were any? Let's clarify that a little more. For starting, one…

LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously, was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet -- pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet."

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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Here is likely the best evidence of the throat wound being an exit wound for a bullet, a fragment of a bullet, or a component of a type of frangible bullet. This is from Lt. Richard Lipsey, aide to General Wehe, who sat through almost the entire autopsy and ebalming procedure, 12-15 feet from JFK's corpse, and who was able to listen to the entire autopsy discussion between Humes, Finck and Boswell.

Excuse me?

Lipsey was in the gallery if he was in the autopsy room at all.

"Q: Getting back to the entrances you just stated one exit you believed was on the right hand side of the head. Now what about the other entrances, what about the corresponding exits if there were any? Let's clarify that a little more. For starting, one…

LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously, was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet -- pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet."

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JFK+TIE+BULHOLE.jpg

...This is a nick rather than a hole in the tie, right?

...If you rotate the above photo 90 degrees clockwise (as you did in the GIF that follows), as a tie goes horizontally around the knot, that would put the blood-stain (and burn mark I would argue), slightly on the back side of the knot. IF the nick were on the side. Small potatoes, that. I just wonder if this closeup photo of the tie on JFK was THAT morning, because it looks like the nick and stain(s) should be one vertical row of icons to JFK's left.

Hi, Roy. Yes, that is a nick, not a hole (the latter assertion being just more disinformation), and what you have suggested is a perfectly reasonable possibility—not small potatoes at all. I originally attempted to do that version, too, but because of extremely compressed time, I only did the animation that I posted. Attempting to "stretch" the flat tie-with-nick image so that it conforms to the "knot" shape, while trying NOT (pun unavoidable) to prejudicially distort evidence, and trying to get the icons to properly align, is an enormously time-consuming and tedious task. If no one else will do it, I promise that I will get back to it as soon as I can find breathing time. Perhaps now that the banshees have been banned from my view, I will be able to. Although there are also other complications that arose in attempting to do it the way you suggest, which I will take up later.

Thanks for your interest and rational discussion.

Ashton

This is assuming, of course, that whatever caused the nick was moving in the same direction as the nick is long. If this was the tail of the tie, which all of the evidence clearly points to it being, it would have been the piece that passed through the knot, and would not have been part of the "wrapping" of the knot.

Imagine this section being the segment that poked out the narrow bottom of the knot, squeezing this part so that the "nicked" section was folded over.

Instead of the projectile passing lengthwise through the nick, the projectile was as wide as the nick is long, and the segment that was nicked was folded over and sticking out.

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P.S.

Banshees banned from my view, Ashton? Wow, what a great researcher you are. Anything that doesn't agree with your theory, just close your eyes, plug your ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!"

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Here is likely the best evidence of the throat wound being an exit wound for a bullet, a fragment of a bullet, or a component of a type of frangible bullet. This is from Lt. Richard Lipsey, aide to General Wehe, who sat through almost the entire autopsy and ebalming procedure, 12-15 feet from JFK's corpse, and who was able to listen to the entire autopsy discussion between Humes, Finck and Boswell.

Excuse me?

Lipsey was in the gallery if he was in the autopsy room at all.

"Q: Getting back to the entrances you just stated one exit you believed was on the right hand side of the head. Now what about the other entrances, what about the corresponding exits if there were any? Let's clarify that a little more. For starting, one…

LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously, was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet -- pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet."

READ Lipsey's interview, Cliff. There was no gallery. Lipsey clearly states there was only a railing separating him from JFK, and that he was 12-15 feet away from the corpse.

I suppose you are going to call Lt. Lipsey a xxxx now. Is that what you mean by "...if he was in the autopsy room at all"?

Anyone that fouls up your pet theory, dismiss him as a xxxx. Great research methods, Cliff. Almost as impressive as Ashton's research methods, but not quite.

From the HSCA interview of Lt. Richard Lipsey, January 18, 1978:

"Q: Were you in the positions to be able to hear any conversations among the doctors?

LIPSEY: Yeah, I was, but truthfully, I paid attention to what I wanted to pay attention to. it was one of those deals where I was curious how many times he'd been shot, or where he'd been shot. Medical definitions of what type of wounds they were, and whatever, I tuned all that out probably. I didn't know what they were talking about and I just didn't care. I should have cared more-- I wish now I could have taped it, if possible.

No. I really don't know…I heard their conversations. I was interested in the parts I wanted to be interested in. It's been too long to recall the other parts of their conversations.

Q: I'd like to stop the tape in order to change sides. The time is 12:17.

-----------------------

Time is 12:18 beginning the tape again.

Q: Getting back to the question that he just asked you. In terms of feet, how close were you to the table where the autopsy was being performed? Were you right behind?

LIPSEY: When you walked in the autopsy room from the back door where they brought the body in, you turned left down a very little short hallway. Had the doors right there. When you walked in there was sort of a like a little spectator's gallery, on the right there were several chairs on the right with a railing in front. The table was in front of that. I would say I was about as far as from that jacket, maybe, from the doctors, approximately about 12-15 feet."

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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Here is likely the best evidence of the throat wound being an exit wound for a bullet, a fragment of a bullet, or a component of a type of frangible bullet. This is from Lt. Richard Lipsey, aide to General Wehe, who sat through almost the entire autopsy and ebalming procedure, 12-15 feet from JFK's corpse, and who was able to listen to the entire autopsy discussion between Humes, Finck and Boswell.

Excuse me?

Lipsey was in the gallery if he was in the autopsy room at all.

"Q: Getting back to the entrances you just stated one exit you believed was on the right hand side of the head. Now what about the other entrances, what about the corresponding exits if there were any? Let's clarify that a little more. For starting, one…

LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously, was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet -- pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet."

READ Lipsey's interview, Cliff. There was no gallery. Lipsey clearly states there was only a railing separating him from JFK, and that he was 12-15 feet away from the corpse.

I suppose you are going to call Lt. Lipsey a xxxx now. Is that what you mean by "...if he was in the autopsy room at all"?

Anyone that fouls up your pet theory, dismiss him as a xxxx. Great research methods, Cliff. Almost as impressive as Ashton's research methods, but not quite.

This is hilarious coming from a guy who says all the Dealey Plaza close proximity witnesses, Parkland throat entrance wound witnesses, and any number of Bethesda autopsy witnesses got it wrong.

Cherry pick much, Robert?

Present your proof there was a wound in the upper neck other than the testimony of one guy.

Present your proof Lipsey attended the autopsy.

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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Here is likely the best evidence of the throat wound being an exit wound for a bullet, a fragment of a bullet, or a component of a type of frangible bullet. This is from Lt. Richard Lipsey, aide to General Wehe, who sat through almost the entire autopsy and ebalming procedure, 12-15 feet from JFK's corpse, and who was able to listen to the entire autopsy discussion between Humes, Finck and Boswell.

Excuse me?

Lipsey was in the gallery if he was in the autopsy room at all.

"Q: Getting back to the entrances you just stated one exit you believed was on the right hand side of the head. Now what about the other entrances, what about the corresponding exits if there were any? Let's clarify that a little more. For starting, one…

LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously, was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet -- pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet."

READ Lipsey's interview, Cliff. There was no gallery. Lipsey clearly states there was only a railing separating him from JFK, and that he was 12-15 feet away from the corpse.

I suppose you are going to call Lt. Lipsey a xxxx now. Is that what you mean by "...if he was in the autopsy room at all"?

Anyone that fouls up your pet theory, dismiss him as a xxxx. Great research methods, Cliff. Almost as impressive as Ashton's research methods, but not quite.

This is hilarious coming from a guy who says all the Dealey Plaza close proximity witnesses, Parkland throat entrance wound witnesses, and any number of Bethesda autopsy witnesses got it wrong.

Cherry pick much, Robert?

Present your proof there was a wound in the upper neck other than the testimony of one guy.

Present your proof Lipsey attended the autopsy.

Don't you mean LOWER neck, Cliff?

From the WC testimony of Dr. Malcolm Perry:

"Mr. SPECTER - Dr. Perry, you mentioned an injury to the trachea.

Will you describe that as precisely as you can, please?

Dr. PERRY - Yes. Once the transverse incision through the skin and subcutaneous tissues was made, it was necessary to separate the strap muscles covering the anterior muscles of the windpipe and thyroid. At that point the trachea was noted to be deviated slightly to the left and I found it necessary to sever the exterior strap muscles on the other side to reach the trachea.

I noticed a small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side. I could see the endotracheal tube which had been placed by Dr. Carrico in the wound, but there was evidence of air and blood around the tube because I noted the cuff was just above the injury to the trachea."

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Interview with Paul O'Connor with William Law "In the Eye of History,"
2005. From Doug Horne's AARB report Volume IV, page 1018.

<quote on, emphasis added>

Law asked O'Connor specifically which high-ranking personages were present at the autopsy.

O'Connor: I remember there was Admiral Burkley, the President's personal physician. He came in and was very agitated --giving

orders to everybody, including higher ranking officers.

Law: What kind of orders?

O: Be prepared to do what I tell you to do, when I tell you to do it.

L: So he, in effect, assumed command?

O: He was entirely in command over admirals, over generals. I remember one general who was sitting in the gallery. It was a teaching morgue and
we had a big gallery.
I remember Curtis LeMay sitting there with a big cigar in his hand.

L: How did you know it was Curtis LeMay?

O: I knew Curtis LeMay by seeing him before and by the big cigar he smoked all the time.

L: What was his manner when you saw him?

O: Nonchalant. Kind of , "well, let's get this show on the road."

<quote off>

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Here is likely the best evidence of the throat wound being an exit wound for a bullet, a fragment of a bullet, or a component of a type of frangible bullet. This is from Lt. Richard Lipsey, aide to General Wehe, who sat through almost the entire autopsy and ebalming procedure, 12-15 feet from JFK's corpse, and who was able to listen to the entire autopsy discussion between Humes, Finck and Boswell.

Excuse me?

Lipsey was in the gallery if he was in the autopsy room at all.

"Q: Getting back to the entrances you just stated one exit you believed was on the right hand side of the head. Now what about the other entrances, what about the corresponding exits if there were any? Let's clarify that a little more. For starting, one…

LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously, was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet -- pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet."

READ Lipsey's interview, Cliff. There was no gallery. Lipsey clearly states there was only a railing separating him from JFK, and that he was 12-15 feet away from the corpse.

I suppose you are going to call Lt. Lipsey a xxxx now. Is that what you mean by "...if he was in the autopsy room at all"?

Anyone that fouls up your pet theory, dismiss him as a xxxx. Great research methods, Cliff. Almost as impressive as Ashton's research methods, but not quite.

This is hilarious coming from a guy who says all the Dealey Plaza close proximity witnesses, Parkland throat entrance wound witnesses, and any number of Bethesda autopsy witnesses got it wrong.

Cherry pick much, Robert?

Present your proof there was a wound in the upper neck other than the testimony of one guy.

Present your proof Lipsey attended the autopsy.

Don't you mean LOWER neck, Cliff?

No, I'm citing Lipsey:

<quote on>

LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the neck.

<quote off>

Lipsey is your guy. What proof do you have JFK was shot in the upper neck?

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Do you recall Humes' autopsy report stating there was an entrance wound next to the EOP?

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Do you recall Humes' autopsy report stating there was an entrance wound next to the EOP?

Do you recall Humes concluding that that shot exited the throat?

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Of course not, Cliff. He concluded the upper back shot exited the throat. Do you believe that one?

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