There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat

[Robert Prudhomme]

"To bring the discussion back to Ashton Gray's thread about the JFK throat wound, I will note that given four custom Mannlicher-Carcano rifles, with some firing frangible bullets, we can continue to debate whether JFK's throat wound came from the front of JFK or from a fragment in the back of JFK's neck."

Yes, it is good to come back to the original topic.

On that note, do you know what one of the most interesting paradoxes of the assassination is? It is that a goodly number of the witnesses in front of the TSBD heard three shots, and also heard these three shots coming from the direction of the Grassy Knoll. And yet, what we can glean from the medical evidence tells us there were at least two and possibly three shots originating from behind the limo, with only the head shot originating from somewhere in front of the limo.

Know how they did it? It's quite simple, really. This photo is the giveaway:

If we are to believe the Zapruder film is unaltered, the Altgens 6 photo above, taken by photographer James "Ike" Altgens, was taken at the precise moment frame z255 of the Zapruder film was exposed. If JFK was first hit at z190, and if Zapruder's camera really did expose 18.3 frames per second, this means that the first shot was fired 3.55 seconds before this photo was taken.

I don't know how much time you have spent around rifles being fired but, there is something unique about the M91/38 Carcano short rifle that makes the above photo quite impossible. When the M91/38 Carcano was designed, it was nothing more than an M91 long rifle with a barrel reduced in length. Every part of the action of the M91/38 short rifle is interchangeable with the action of the M91 long rifle. They both even shoot the same cartridge, which is quite unusual in the military world.

For instance, take the American M1 Garand and the M1 carbine.

M1 carbine semi-automatic carbine with 18 inch barrel

M1 Garand semi-automatic rifle with 24 inch barrel

(see next post for image of cartridges)

30-06 (.30 calibre) cartridge for M1 Garand top, .30 calibre cartridge for M1 carbine bottom

While both rifles shoot a .30 calibre bullet, the designers of the M1 carbine took into consideration the shorter barrel of the carbine, and designed a cartridge with far less gunpowder in it. Consequently, like most carbines, the M1 carbine is never seriously thought of as a long range rifle.

Most importantly, though, is the reduction in muzzle blast and muzzle flash. If the larger cartridge was fired in the shorter barrel, there would still be gunpowder burning outside the end of the muzzle, and the muzzle blast would be very loud.

No such consideration was given to the Carcano short rifles and carbines, when the original 31 inch long rifle barrel was reduced to 17 inches in the carbines and 21 inches in the short rifles. No reduction in cartridge size was made, and the carbines and short rifles shoot the same cartridge as the long rifles do.

Despite the efforts of WC apologists over the years to make readers believe the M91/38 short rifle has a very quiet muzzle blast, in order to accommodate the reports of many witnesses likening the first shot to a firecracker, quite the opposite is true. The technicians doing sound testing for the HSCA in Dealey Plaza were astounded that anyone could liken the report of C2766 to a firecracker, as they reported the muzzle blast to be painfully loud and startling, despite the noise of the motorcade and the crowd.

Now, here is something else no one seems to take into consideration. Many people will shoot a rifle, or stand behind someone shooting a rifle, and come away remarking how painfully loud the muzzle blast is. However, standing behind the rifle, they are not getting the full effect of the muzzle blast, and have no idea just how loud it actually is. If you cam imagine this, think of a cone surrounding the path of the bullet, starting at the muzzle of the rifle. This cone would extend out about 45° from the path of the bullet; up and down and to either side. Everything forward of the rifle and within this cone would get the full effect of the muzzle blast of the M91/38, and to liken this sound to a firecracker is to liken a siren to a whisper.

If LHO was pointing an M91/38 from the 6th floor of the TSBD at JFK just as JFK became visiblle from behind the tree, every single onlooker seen on the sidewalk in Altgens 6 would have been inside of this 45° cone of influence and would have been a mere 60-70 feet (20-23 yards) from the muzzle blast when LHO pulled the trigger. As the HSCA technicians observed, the sound would have been painfully deafening, and nothing like a firecracker at all.

What is REALLY baffling is the complete lack of a reaction seen on the faces of the onlookers. Not a single one of them looks like they have just been exposed to one and possibly two (or three) deafening muzzle blasts.

(see next post for image of startle response)

This is what I would expect to be seeing.

The interesting thing about startle reaction (startle response) to an unexpected and very loud noise is that it is mostly involuntary and almost instantaneous.

"Reflexes[edit]

There are many various reflexes that can occur simultaneously during a startle response. The fastest reflex recorded in humans happens within the masseter muscle or jaw muscle. The reflex was measured by electromyography which records the electrical activitiy during movement of the muscles. This also showed the latency response or the delay between the stimulus and the response. Recorded was found to be about 14 milliseconds. The blink of the eye which is the reflex of the orbicularis oculi muscle was found to have a latency of about 20 to 40 milliseconds. Out of larger body parts, the head is quickest in a movement latency in a range from 60 to 120 milliseconds. The neck then moves almost simultaneously with a latency of 75 to 121 milliseconds. Next, the shoulder jerks at 100 to 121 milliseconds along with the arms at 125 to 195 milliseconds. Lastly the legs responds with a latency of 145 to 395 milliseconds. This type of cascading response correlates to how the synapses travel from the brain and down the spinal cord to activate each motor neuron.^[5]"

Now that we know it would have been impossible for the onlookers to have been in the cone of influence of the muzzle blast, and not still be displaying startle responses in Altgens 6, what happened here, and how could the ear witnesses have heard three shots originating from the Grassy Knoll?

The answer may lie in this line from your last post:

"(A.) Morrow claims that during the summer of 1963 he customized four Mannlicher-Carcano rifles at the request of Tracy Barnes (who was passionate about the Bay of Pigs failure) and personally delivered them to David Ferrie in New Orleans."

The question is, just how much did Mr. Morrow customize these four rifles, and what model of Carcano were they? Below is a photo of a suppressor mounted on a bolt action rifle, followed by a cutaway diagram of a similar suppressor:

(see next post for image of rifle mounted suppressor)

While the diagram shows a suppressor for a 9 mm pistol, the construction of a suppressor for a rifle is not much different. Basically, you have a tube that is either threaded onto or clamped onto the barrel of a rifle; sometimes requiring a gunsmith to remove the barrel, put it in a lathe and cut threads on the tip of the barrel.Inside of the suppressor are a series of cone shaped baffles. These baffles allow expanding hot gases from burning gunpowder to cool and expand, thus greatly reducing the volume of the muzzle blast of a rifle and helping to conceal the source of a rifle shot. The mounting of a suppressor on a 6.5mm Carcano M91/41 long rifle would not have been a great technological challenge for Mr. Morrow, if he had the gunsmithing expertise he claimed he did.

However, a suppressor on a rifle shooting a supersonic bullet aids in concealing the source of the shot in another way. As the bullet is moving faster than the speed of sound, it breaks the sound barrier as it leaves the muzzle, creating a small sonic boom. It will continue making a sonic boom all the time it is travelling faster than the speed of sound, and people 300 yards down range will hear the same sonic boom as people standing 10 yards down range, even though both ear witnesses will think the sonic boom they heard is the only one made. It will only stop making a sonic boom once its velocity falls below the speed of sound.

When the bullet passes by any vertical hard objects, such as a building, this constant sonic boom will be reflected off of these hard surfaces, and the echo will travel back to the source of the shot. As the first echoes would have returned to the witnesses in front of the TSBD immediately, and following echoes would have returned in a progression of echoes, the ear witnesses would have heard what sounded like a steady progression of noise coming from toward the Grassy Knoll.

In other words, the use of suppressors on rifles behind the limo tricked witnesses into believing all of the shots came from the Grassy Knoll. This is why no one is displaying a startle response in Altgens 6, why the majority of witnesses in front of the TSBD heard three shots from the Grassy Knoll, and why there could have been only one shot from the front, that being the head shot. The throat wound was the result of a bullet entering the back of the upper neck.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Robert Prudhomme]

In my last post, I exceeded the number of images I was allowed to post.

Here are the ones I deleted:

30-06 cartridge for M1 Garand semi-auto rifle on top, cartridge for M1 semi-auto carbine bottom. Both cartridges are loaded with .30 calibre bullets.

Example of startle response, occurring within half of a second of stimulus, such as a very loud and sudden noise.

Suppressor mounted on bolt action rifle.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Chris Newton]

Hey Robert,

Is this a flash suppressor or a silencer on super soldier Larry Thorne's M16 (third from right, back row)?

I don't know when it was taken but Larry was killed in 65.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hey Robert,

Is this a flash suppressor or a silencer on super soldier Larry Thorne's M16 (third from right, back row)?

I don't know when it was taken but Larry was killed in 65.

It's hard to say, Chris. but it definitely looks like a suppressor. The M16 flash eliminator can best be seen, in this photo, on the muzzle of the guy on our extreme left in the front row. A close up is shown here:

As these soldiers appear to be in a jungle environment, the thing on the end of his barrel could be just an improvised rain cover to keep water from running inside of his barrel, although it seems odd he would be the only one so protective of his weapon. It very likely is a suppressor, and a similar AR-15 mounted suppressor can be seen here:

Edited October 4, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Chris

It just dawned on me that you might have been asking me if this was a suppressor OR a silencer.

The two names are pretty much interchangeable, although the term suppressor is more realistic than silencer, as the sound is never completely silenced.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hey Robert,

Is this a flash suppressor or a silencer on super soldier Larry Thorne's M16 (third from right, back row)?

I don't know when it was taken but Larry was killed in 65.

Just curious Chris. Can you tell us more about this photo?

[Chris Newton]

Just curious Chris. Can you tell us more about this photo?

Robert, I don't have any details other than it was taken in Vietnam probably in 1964 or 65. I'll take a guess that since Larry is back row center that this was his "crew".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_T%C3%B6rni

[Paul Trejo]

Just a reminder again, Paul, that frangible bullets do not "dissolve" inside the human body. I do not believe there is or ever was such a thing as a dissolving bullet although, as I am fond of saying, WTH do I know?

The core of a frangible bullet begins life as shotgun shot (BB's), as in the case of the Glaser Safety Bullet, or metal powder, as in the case of the DRT Ammo frangible bullet. Both mediums are compressed into a solid and then inserted into a bullet jacket.

When the bullets disintegrate in a wound, the core returns to its original form; either BB or metal powder. It is this disintegration and instant arrest of the frangible bullet that transfers all of the bullets' energy to surrounding tissue and does such an incredible amount of damage.

However, the metal BB's or metal powder do not dissolve, and both would show up quite well on an x-ray. For example, the hundreds of dust like particles in the cranium x-rays of JFK that Humes observed, and the "many fragments" Jerrol Custer recalled seeing in the x-ray of JFK's neck that is not the x-ray of JFK's neck in the Archives.

Right, Robert, I had already made that connection between the particles that Bethesda Hospital staff had seen in JFK's brain and neck and the behavior of frangible bullets.

Both you and Cliff had used the phrase, "dissolve" and I thought that was a technical term, so I echoed it -- probably out of context. My intended meaning was to "disintegrate".

The existence and availability of frangible bullets in 1963 makes a significant difference to the way that CTers can interpret the WC testimony.

Also -- the behavior of silencers (suppressors) known in 1963 makes a significant difference.

The long-lost case of the missing bullets in the JFK CTs of the past half-century now seem to show light at the end of these tunnels.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

Just a reminder again, Paul, that frangible bullets do not "dissolve" inside the human body. I do not believe there is or ever was such a thing as a dissolving bullet although, as I am fond of saying, WTH do I know?

The core of a frangible bullet begins life as shotgun shot (BB's), as in the case of the Glaser Safety Bullet, or metal powder, as in the case of the DRT Ammo frangible bullet. Both mediums are compressed into a solid and then inserted into a bullet jacket.

When the bullets disintegrate in a wound, the core returns to its original form; either BB or metal powder. It is this disintegration and instant arrest of the frangible bullet that transfers all of the bullets' energy to surrounding tissue and does such an incredible amount of damage.

However, the metal BB's or metal powder do not dissolve, and both would show up quite well on an x-ray. For example, the hundreds of dust like particles in the cranium x-rays of JFK that Humes observed, and the "many fragments" Jerrol Custer recalled seeing in the x-ray of JFK's neck that is not the x-ray of JFK's neck in the Archives.

Right, Robert, I had already made that connection between the particles that Bethesda Hospital staff had seen in JFK's brain and neck and the behavior of frangible bullets.

Both you and Cliff had used the phrase, "dissolve" and I thought that was a technical term, so I echoed it -- probably out of context. My intended meaning was to "disintegrate".

The existence and availability of frangible bullets in 1963 makes a significant difference to the way that CTers can interpret the WC testimony.

Also -- the behavior of silencers (suppressors) known in 1963 makes a significant difference.

The long-lost case of the missing bullets in the JFK CTs of the past half-century now seem to show light at the end of these tunnels.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul

If what Lt. Richard Lipsey related to the HSCA about JFK's wounds, that being 1) a bullet entrance wound high on the back of JFK's neck with an exit below the larynx and 2) a bullet entrance wound in JFK's upper back with no exit wound, the only way to explain what Lipsey overheard from the Bethesda autopsy doctors is hypothesizing about frangible bullets being used in the assassination.

No other type of bullet could enter JFK's right lung and stop partway through and not leave particles large enough to capture the attention of someone viewing the chest x-rays. (remember the "dirt" observed on the chest x-rays that was, of course, not dirt?).Also, only a frangible bullet, likely a crude early development of this bullet, could impact vertebrae in the neck without a) going right through them or totally destroying the vertebrae.

As I pointed out earlier, further corroboration of frangible bullets being used is Humes' own observation of hundreds of dust like particles of metal seen in the x-rays of JFK's head. It cannot be stressed enough that no bullet, be it an FMJ, a soft point or a hollow point, will ever disintegrate into dust. The most mangled, broken up bullet I have ever seen, even if it is in several fragments, has NEVER turned to dust. This is the clear signature of a frangible bullet, as the cores of these bullets are made by compressing metal powder into a solid.

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Paul

If what Lt. Richard Lipsey related to the HSCA about JFK's wounds, that being 1) a bullet entrance wound high on the back of JFK's neck with an exit below the larynx and 2) a bullet entrance wound in JFK's upper back with no exit wound, the only way to explain what Lipsey overheard from the Bethesda autopsy doctors is hypothesizing about frangible bullets being used in the assassination.

No other type of bullet could enter JFK's right lung and stop partway through and not leave particles large enough to capture the attention of someone viewing the chest x-rays. (remember the "dirt" observed on the chest x-rays that was, of course, not dirt?).Also, only a frangible bullet, likely a crude early development of this bullet, could impact vertebrae in the neck without (a.) going right through them, or (b.) totally destroying the vertebrae.

As I pointed out earlier, further corroboration of frangible bullets being used is Humes' own observation of hundreds of dust like particles of metal seen in the x-rays of JFK's head. It cannot be stressed enough that no bullet, be it an FMJ, a soft point or a hollow point, will ever disintegrate into dust. The most mangled, broken up bullet I have ever seen, even if it is in several fragments, has NEVER turned to dust. This is the clear signature of a frangible bullet, as the cores of these bullets are made by compressing metal powder into a solid.

Robert,

I've been reviewing the WC testimony of Washington DC FBI laboratory experts in their analysis of the ballistics they obtained from the Dallas FBI through the Dallas Police, and of the clothing worn by JFK and Governor Connally in the assassination limo, and of the medical evidence from Parkland and Bethesda.

In particular, Robert Frazier and Cortlandt Cunningham gave scientific, laboratory attention to this physical evidence.

They first admitted that they did not gather the evidence themselves, but were entirely dependent on others to supply them with the proper evidence to analyze.

They secondly admitted some limitations to their analysis, e.g. Govenor Connally's clothes had been cleaned and pressed before they were given to the FBI Laboratory, and the number of shell casings did not match the number of bullets obtained from the Tippit murder, and also, the number of bullet fragments retrieved did not explain the precise wounds reported, and the precise number of dents in the assassination limo.

One of their questions echoes Lipsey -- what happened to the bullets that entered JFK's body? They denied the premise of the SBT, which is that one bullet entered JFK's back, exited his throat, entered Governor Connally making five wounds, and then emerged almost intact (losing only 2 grains of metal) as CE 399.

The SBT failed to explain the Zapruder film position of the bodies, as well as the testimony of Governor Connally and Mrs. Connally about the first bullet that hit JFK. Even ranking members of the Warren Commission refused to accept the SBT.

However -- what puzzled Frazier and Cunningham was this. If a bullet entered JFK's back -- then what the hell happened to it? They had to admit that it must have continued inside the limo -- and then hit something else. But they found only two things damaged in the limo, namely, the inside windshield, which was barely cracked, and a small dent in the chrome above the windshield.

According to Frazier, if a 6.5 mm bullet entered JFK's back and exited his neck, passing only through soft tissue, it would have had enough velocity to puncture a hole in the windshield and travel for a full mile, or until it hit something else. Or, if it hit the chrome above the windshield, it would have easily punctured a gaping hole in the chrome.

Where did the bullet go? That was their biggest puzzle. If it ricocheted off of something else in the limo, that would have been visible to the naked eye -- but they carefully combed every inch of the assassination limo, and found no other dents or damage. This is why they let themselves be browbeaten by Arlen Specter to admit that the SBT was at least possible. No other reason.

As for the clothes of Connally, they had a hole in the back of his coat and shirt, a hole in the front of his coat and shirt, a hole in the right wrist of his shirt, and a hole in top left leg of his trousers. There were fragments in his wrist, and a tiny fragment was left in his left leg.

As for the clothes of JFK, they had only the hole in the back of JFK's coat and shirt, and a hole in the shirt collar below the necktie. Yet this collar hole did not resemble a bullet hole, which at high velocity is always circular. Instead, this was a wide shape, and it showed no metallic residue under a microscope. It could have been made by a bone or some other projectile, he said.

The data about JFK matches what Lipsey overheard at Bethesda. It seems the surgeons at Bethesda encountered the same puzzle -- and they spent extra time looking for the missing bullet. It made no sense to them.

Yet today, fifty-three years later, everything suddenly makes sense when we consider the technology of a frangible bullet in 1963, which was known by ballistics experts, but not yet well-known among surgeons -- even Military surgeons.

The fact that hundreds of metallic particles were found in JFK's brain is the best explanation, IMHO, for the fact that JFK's brain has gone missing for decades. The US Government simply refuses to let the public see it. These metallic particles are proof that a special bullet -- which could not have come from the rifle that shot CE 399 -- was used in the JFK assassination.

Thus, with your theory, Robert, we have significant ballistics evidence of a JFK conspiracy -- more than one rifle. Further, your theory can dispense with the old theory of a necessary shot to JFK's throat.

Did I get that right?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 13, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Paul

If what Lt. Richard Lipsey related to the HSCA about JFK's wounds, that being 1) a bullet entrance wound high on the back of JFK's neck with an exit below the larynx and 2) a bullet entrance wound in JFK's upper back with no exit wound, the only way to explain what Lipsey overheard from the Bethesda autopsy doctors is hypothesizing about frangible bullets being used in the assassination.

No other type of bullet could enter JFK's right lung and stop partway through and not leave particles large enough to capture the attention of someone viewing the chest x-rays. (remember the "dirt" observed on the chest x-rays that was, of course, not dirt?).Also, only a frangible bullet, likely a crude early development of this bullet, could impact vertebrae in the neck without (a.) going right through them, or (b.) totally destroying the vertebrae.

As I pointed out earlier, further corroboration of frangible bullets being used is Humes' own observation of hundreds of dust like particles of metal seen in the x-rays of JFK's head. It cannot be stressed enough that no bullet, be it an FMJ, a soft point or a hollow point, will ever disintegrate into dust. The most mangled, broken up bullet I have ever seen, even if it is in several fragments, has NEVER turned to dust. This is the clear signature of a frangible bullet, as the cores of these bullets are made by compressing metal powder into a solid.

Robert,

I've been reviewing the WC testimony of Washington DC FBI laboratory experts in their analysis of the ballistics they obtained from the Dallas FBI through the Dallas Police, and of the clothing worn by JFK and Governor Connally in the assassination limo, and of the medical evidence from Parkland and Bethesda.

In particular, Robert Frazier and Cortlandt Cunningham gave scientific, laboratory attention to this physical evidence.

They first admitted that they did not gather the evidence themselves, but were entirely dependent on others to supply them with the proper evidence to analyze.

They secondly admitted some limitations to their analysis, e.g. Govenor Connally's clothes had been cleaned and pressed before they were given to the FBI Laboratory, and the number of shell casings did not match the number of bullets obtained from the Tippit murder, and also, the number of bullet fragments retrieved did not explain the precise wounds reported, and the precise number of dents in the assassination limo.

One of their questions echoes Lipsey -- what happened to the bullets that entered JFK's body? They denied the premise of the SBT, which is that one bullet entered JFK's back, exited his throat, entered Governor Connally making five wounds, and then emerged almost intact (losing only 2 grains of metal) as CE 399.

The SBT failed to explain the Zapruder film position of the bodies, as well as the testimony of Governor Connally and Mrs. Connally about the first bullet that hit JFK. Even ranking members of the Warren Commission refused to accept the SBT.

However -- what puzzled Frazier and Cunningham was this. If a bullet entered JFK's back -- then what the hell happened to it? They had to admit that it must have continued inside the limo -- and then hit something else. But they found only two things damaged in the limo, namely, the inside windshield, which was barely cracked, and a small dent in the chrome above the windshield.

According to Frazier, if a 6.5 mm bullet entered JFK's back and exited his neck, passing only through soft tissue, it would have had enough velocity to puncture a hole in the windshield and travel for a full mile, or until it hit something else. Or, if it hit the chrome above the windshield, it would have easily punctured a gaping hole in the chrome.

Where did the bullet go? That was their biggest puzzle. If it ricocheted off of something else in the limo, that would have been visible to the naked eye -- but they carefully combed every inch of the assassination limo, and found no other dents or damage. This is why they let themselves be browbeaten by Arlen Specter to admit that the SBT was at least possible. No other reason.

As for the clothes of Connally, they had a hole in the back of his coat and shirt, a hole in the front of his coat and shirt, a hole in the right wrist of his shirt, and a hole in top left leg of his trousers. There were fragments in his wrist, and a tiny fragment was left in his left leg.

As for the clothes of JFK, they had only the hole in the back of JFK's coat and shirt, and a hole in the shirt collar below the necktie. Yet this collar hole did not resemble a bullet hole, which at high velocity is always circular. Instead, this was a wide shape, and it showed no metallic residue under a microscope. It could have been made by a bone or some other projectile, he said.

The data about JFK matches what Lipsey overheard at Bethesda. It seems the surgeons at Bethesda encountered the same puzzle -- and they spent extra time looking for the missing bullet. It made no sense to them.

Yet today, fifty-three years later, everything suddenly makes sense when we consider the technology of a frangible bullet in 1963, which was known by ballistics experts, but not yet well-known among surgeons -- even Military surgeons.

The fact that hundreds of metallic particles were found in JFK's brain is the best explanation, IMHO, for the fact that JFK's brain has gone missing for decades. The US Government simply refuses to let the public see it. These metallic particles are proof that a special bullet -- which could not have come from the rifle that shot CE 399 -- was used in the JFK assassination.

Thus, with your theory, Robert, we have significant ballistics evidence of a JFK conspiracy -- more than one rifle. Further, your theory can dispense with the old theory of a necessary shot to JFK's throat.

Did I get that right?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul

Yup, pretty close. The only thing I might disagree with is the rifle that fired CE 399 not being able to fire a frangible bullet. Of course, though, three times in six seconds is something entirely different.

I've always believed the FMJ cartridge left in the chamber of C2766 was left there just to help us assume that all the fired bullets were FMJ, too.

Frazier was an interesting subject. I caught him telling a few fibs and misconceptions to the WC, but in many ways I believe he was just as baffled as anyone else by the bullet that "disappeared" in JFK's chest, and that was the subject of such an extensive search at the Bethesda autopsy.

What I believe to be one of the greatest and most overlooked clues are the chest x-rays of JFK that somehow managed to get "dirt" on them. It was pointed out that this "dirt" looked like fragments but was, in actuality, only dirt. This is precisely the evidence I would be looking for in a chest x-ray, if I suspected a frangible bullet.

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Paul

Yup, pretty close. The only thing I might disagree with is the rifle that fired CE 399 not being able to fire a frangible bullet. Of course, though, three times in six seconds is something entirely different.

I've always believed the FMJ cartridge left in the chamber of C2766 was left there just to help us assume that all the fired bullets were FMJ, too.

Frazier was an interesting subject. I caught him telling a few fibs and misconceptions to the WC, but in many ways I believe he was just as baffled as anyone else by the bullet that "disappeared" in JFK's chest, and that was the subject of such an extensive search at the Bethesda autopsy.

What I believe to be one of the greatest and most overlooked clues are the chest x-rays of JFK that somehow managed to get "dirt" on them. It was pointed out that this "dirt" looked like fragments but was, in actuality, only dirt. This is precisely the evidence I would be looking for in a chest x-ray, if I suspected a frangible bullet.

Robert,

OK, this is very interesting. Are you saying that the FMJ bullet in CE2766 was a frangible bullet? That would change everything.

The FBI Lab said that the characteristics of the few bullet fragments found in the limo, in JFK's brain and in Governor's Connally's right wrist matched the characteristics of 6.5 mm. lead bullets, just like CE 399 (the stretcher bullet).

Now, even assuming that CE 399 was planted -- if I presume that these fragments weren't planted -- then one must ask whether a bullet like CE 399 could be part of a clip for a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano at the same time that a frangible bullet was in the clip.

Am I way off base here?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Paul

No. the cartridge found in the chamber of C2766 was definitely a FMJ bullet. C2766 may or may not have been fired that day. All I am saying is that leaving a FMJ cartridge in the chamber of C2766, plus three empty casings of the same brand on the floor, would lead an investigator to believe ALL of the bullets fired at JFK were FMJ.

The interesting thing about the bullet fragments found in the limo is how very small they were. Also, the nose of the jacket of the bullet that struck JFK's head was found by itself. How did the nose of the jacket separate from the rest of the jacket?

What "characteristics" did they find in the bullet fragments that matched them to 6.5mm Carcano bullets? The fact they were all made from lead?

[Robert Prudhomme]

The SBT story and the pristine CE 399 story have a major problem once we get to Connally's wrist and the minute fragments found there.

If a FMJ bullet struck Connally's wrist, there is only one way it could leave fragments of lead in the wrist. Look at these images:

As can be seen, a full metal jacket bullet jacket does not really encompass the lead core entirely. The copper alloy jacket is open at the base of the bullet, exposing the lead core. In the case of the 6.5mm Carcano bullet, this exposed lead base is about 4.5 mm in diameter. There are two reasons for doing this:

1) As part of the manufacturing process, the lead core is inserted into the base of the copper alloy jacket.

2) Leaving the base open makes the FMJ bullet far more humane, and the source of less grievous injuries.

How does it make it more humane? It's quite simple, really.

When a FMJ bullet contacts large bones, it will normally deform and flatten. There are many ways it can deform but all have one thing in common; the deformation will cause the space inside the bullet jacket to become smaller. Lead is so soft and malleable that, at hyper velocities, it will behave almost like a liquid. If the bullet jacket was fully enclosed, the flattening and deforming of the jacket would be trying to compress the lead core into a smaller space and, being uncompressable, a great hydraulic pressure would build up inside of the jacket and rip the bullet apart. At this point, the so called humane FMJ bullet would become something as devastating as a hollow point bullet, and it would make a great and horrible wound.

However, with the open base on the FMJ bullet, we have something that can be thought of as a "pressure relief valve". As the FMJ bullet deforms, pressure will still rise but, instead of reaching critical levels inside the jacket, the lead will merely extrude out the base of the FMJ bullet; the same as if you were squeezing toothpaste out of a tube when you brush your teeth. Many times, FMJ bullets will leave a trail of lead fragments behind them as they pass through bone and tissue.

It would be nice if the fragments found in Connally's wrist could be explained away as bits of lead that were extruded from CE 399 as it struck Connally's wrist but, there is a problem. CE 399 is simply not deformed enough to have raised internal pressures to the point the lead core would start extruding out its base. Sure, the back end of the bullet is a bit out of round, but the overall volume of the inside of the jacket has not been reduced. Another important point is there is no extruded lead seen hanging from the base, as seen in this photo:

This is a test bullet fired by John Lattimer. While John was attempting to convince us of the number of fragments found in Connally not being too many, he inadvertently revealed something even more damning to the case for CE 399. The test bullet shown is what we would expect to see if a bullet had been extruding lead out of its base. The lead has to extrude a certain minimum distance before external forces cause the lead to break off in fragments. Typically, one will see this much lead left hanging out the base.

However, there is a chance the extruded lead from CE 399 did break off just inside the base, leaving what we see here:

If a certain amount of lead must be extruding before external forces cause it to separate, and if the extruded lead from CE 399 broke off inside the base of CE 399, there simply has to be more than 2 grains of lead missing from CE 399. A LOT more.

This is one of the things I love about JFK research. So many of their "experts" thought themselves so clever, and yet, it is their very own evidence that ends up tripping them up.

Now, I don't know if this has occurred to you while I've been rambling on here but, given what we now know about the built-in "pressure relief valve" on a FMJ bullet, has it occurred to you that the bullet that disintegrated inside JFK's head could not have disintegrated, if it was a FMJ bullet?

P.S.

The test bullet in Lattimer's photo does not appear deformed enough to have extruded as much lead as Lattimer claims.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Paul

No. the cartridge found in the chamber of C2766 was definitely a FMJ bullet. C2766 may or may not have been fired that day. All I am saying is that leaving a FMJ cartridge in the chamber of C2766, plus three empty casings of the same brand on the floor, would lead an investigator to believe ALL of the bullets fired at JFK were FMJ.

The interesting thing about the bullet fragments found in the limo is how very small they were. Also, the nose of the jacket of the bullet that struck JFK's head was found by itself. How did the nose of the jacket separate from the rest of the jacket?

What "characteristics" did they find in the bullet fragments that matched them to 6.5mm Carcano bullets? The fact they were all made from lead?

Robert,

I now believe I understand your position more fully. An FMJ bullet -- a Full Metal Jacket -- is unlike the Frangible, disintegrating bullet. An FMJ was remaining in the Oswald CE 139 rifle, and the stretcher bullet, CE 399, is also an FMJ.

So, an illusion had been prepared by the JFK conspirators that the only bullets used were FMJ, and these were the most commonly known bullets by medical experts at the time of the JFK assassination, anyway. Nobody even thought of a frangible bullet, IIRC. (The only fragments found in JFK, on the front seat, and inside Governor Connally's wrist were merely "lead," so they could have come from many types of bullet.)

It is well-known that medical experts, ballistics experts and forensics experts of the WC spent much of their time seeking the bullet that went through JFK's back. Unable to find it anywhere, this was one of the main arguments supporting the SBT. If it isn't in the limo, and it didn't strike anything in the limo, then since it only hit soft tissue in JFK, it had to hit Governor Connally in the back -- because there's no other evidence.

Robert Frazier, ballistics expert, was asked about damage to the JFK limo, and he said there were only two points of damage -- a slight nick in the windshield on the driver's side, and a slight nick in the chrome on the front-seat passenger's side. Yet if a bullet exited JFK's neck only hitting soft tissue, and then hit the windshield, it would have penetrated the windshield and would have flown for a solid mile or until it hit something else. But the windshield was not penetrated, only nicked.

The futile search for the missing bullet fueled the mythology of the SBT. But now, with the data of Frangible bullets, we finally have a plausible solution to a mystery that puzzled all the experts of the Warren Commission.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 14, 2016 by Paul Trejo