Robert Howard Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Also see google groups "Innocent Patsy - Modesto Bee 1997" I am not sure, but at one time, these documents were Postponed In Full. Not certain about now. AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : DOJ RECORD NUMBER : 179-20004-10045 RECORDS SERIES : CLASSIFIED SUBJECT FILE 129-11, OFFICIAL MAIL SECT. 41 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : FBI FROM : WASHINGTON, DC DATE : 02/27/80 PAGES : 3 DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT SUBJECTS : CAPEHART, CLAUDE; CODE LISTINGS; FORE, GARLAND; BILLINGS, RICHARD CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL DATE OF LAST REVIEW : / / COMMENTS : BOX 61 Hit 2 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10102-10445 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 013652 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : CIA DATE : 12/13/78 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : OUTSIDE CONTACT REPORT SUBJECTS : CIA; FILES; CAPEHART, CLAUDE B. CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/05/93 COMMENTS : Box 239. Hit 3 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10102-10454 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 013661 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : BLAKEY, G. ROBERT TO : BRECKINRIDGE, SCOTT DATE : 12/13/78 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : LETTER SUBJECTS : CIA; FILES; CAPEHART, CLAUDE BARNES CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/05/93 COMMENTS : Box 239. Hit 4 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10109-10150 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 013836 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : FORE, DALE DATE : 12/18/78 PAGES : 3 DOCUMENT TYPE : OUTSIDE CONTACT REPORT SUBJECTS : CAPEHART, CLAUDE; CIA; KENNEDY, JOHN; ASSASSINATION; CONSPIRACY THEORIES; CIA; CHILE CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : OPEN DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/10/93 COMMENTS : Box 242. Hit 5 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10145-10103 RECORDS SERIES : CIA SEGREGATED COLLECTION AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 50-28-01 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : BLAKEY, G. ROBERT TO : BRECKINRIDGE, SCOTT DATE : 12/13/78 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : LETTER SUBJECTS : CIA, FILES; CAPEHART, CLAUDE BARNES CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : 3 CURRENT STATUS : RELEASED WITH DELETIONS DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/25/95 COMMENTS : Box 27 more http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/11th_issue/updates.html http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e68ce16e7b1b77e4/b8b16d1fec6e57be?hl=en&ie= Edited April 19, 2011 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Also see google groups "Innocent Patsy - Modesto Bee 1997" I am not sure, but at one time, these documents were Postponed In Full. Not certain about now. AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : DOJ RECORD NUMBER : 179-20004-10045 RECORDS SERIES : CLASSIFIED SUBJECT FILE 129-11, OFFICIAL MAIL SECT. 41 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : FBI FROM : WASHINGTON, DC DATE : 02/27/80 PAGES : 3 DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT SUBJECTS : CAPEHART, CLAUDE; CODE LISTINGS; FORE, GARLAND; BILLINGS, RICHARD CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL DATE OF LAST REVIEW : / / COMMENTS : BOX 61 Hit 2 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10102-10445 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 013652 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : CIA DATE : 12/13/78 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : OUTSIDE CONTACT REPORT SUBJECTS : CIA; FILES; CAPEHART, CLAUDE B. CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/05/93 COMMENTS : Box 239. Hit 3 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10102-10454 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 013661 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : BLAKEY, G. ROBERT TO : BRECKINRIDGE, SCOTT DATE : 12/13/78 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : LETTER SUBJECTS : CIA; FILES; CAPEHART, CLAUDE BARNES CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/05/93 COMMENTS : Box 239. Hit 4 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10109-10150 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 013836 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : FORE, DALE DATE : 12/18/78 PAGES : 3 DOCUMENT TYPE : OUTSIDE CONTACT REPORT SUBJECTS : CAPEHART, CLAUDE; CIA; KENNEDY, JOHN; ASSASSINATION; CONSPIRACY THEORIES; CIA; CHILE CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : OPEN DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/10/93 COMMENTS : Box 242. Hit 5 of 5 AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10145-10103 RECORDS SERIES : CIA SEGREGATED COLLECTION AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 50-28-01 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : HSCA FROM : BLAKEY, G. ROBERT TO : BRECKINRIDGE, SCOTT DATE : 12/13/78 PAGES : 1 DOCUMENT TYPE : LETTER SUBJECTS : CIA, FILES; CAPEHART, CLAUDE BARNES CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : 3 CURRENT STATUS : RELEASED WITH DELETIONS DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/25/95 COMMENTS : Box 27 more http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/11th_issue/updates.html http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e68ce16e7b1b77e4/b8b16d1fec6e57be?hl=en&ie= Boy I tell you what. Oswald shore do look like a small man compared to them Stetson-wearin' long, tall Texans escortin' him in handcuffs an' all. Look like a wimpy lil' ol' pencil neck geek t' me. Pitiful small man. Edited April 19, 2011 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bartetzko Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 That is not Witt. Jack This is not a complete document, but I did go to the trouble of including some rather pertinent data. Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 40/ NARA Record Number: 104-10110-10377 BIOGRAPHICAL DATA: CAPEHART, CLAUDE BARNES http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=14169 Birth: 15 Ocotber 1924, Omeka, Oklahoma Marital Status: Robert Mary Nee: BALTEY b. 2 Dec 1922, Winsboro, La.; Address: Same as Subject. Parents: Capehart, Henry Hayes b. 15 Oct 1876, Stamps, Arkansas; Deceased. Capehart, Laura Jefferson; Nee: GARBROUGH; b. 1 April, 1873, Memphis Tennessee; Deceased Children: Capehart, Neal Henry; b. 11 Aug. 1953 Bakersfield, California; Add: Box 7011 Reno, Nev. Military: September 43-July 46, U.S. Army Sergeant # 39145469 Claude Barnes Capehart aka Claude Buster Capehart Social Security 566-22-5896 Date Added: June 1973 I believe there is a photo of someone in front of the TSBD who looks like Claude Capehart. I have been unable to find it, but if I recall, it bears a resemblance to these embassy photos. Anyone have a copy of that photo and can post it? This Capehart thread is interesting and Jim D did a story on Claude Capehart in his publication Probe V4 #1 entitled "The Capehart Caper" I couldn't upload the Jim Murray photo but here's link to it on Robin Unger's great website: http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=41&pos=18 --Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bartetzko Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 That is not Witt. Jack This is not a complete document, but I did go to the trouble of including some rather pertinent data. Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 40/ NARA Record Number: 104-10110-10377 BIOGRAPHICAL DATA: CAPEHART, CLAUDE BARNES http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=14169 Birth: 15 Ocotber 1924, Omeka, Oklahoma Marital Status: Robert Mary Nee: BALTEY b. 2 Dec 1922, Winsboro, La.; Address: Same as Subject. Parents: Capehart, Henry Hayes b. 15 Oct 1876, Stamps, Arkansas; Deceased. Capehart, Laura Jefferson; Nee: GARBROUGH; b. 1 April, 1873, Memphis Tennessee; Deceased Children: Capehart, Neal Henry; b. 11 Aug. 1953 Bakersfield, California; Add: Box 7011 Reno, Nev. Military: September 43-July 46, U.S. Army Sergeant # 39145469 Claude Barnes Capehart aka Claude Buster Capehart Social Security 566-22-5896 Date Added: June 1973 I believe there is a photo of someone in front of the TSBD who looks like Claude Capehart. I have been unable to find it, but if I recall, it bears a resemblance to these embassy photos. Anyone have a copy of that photo and can post it? This Capehart thread is interesting and Jim D did a story on Claude Capehart in his publication Probe V4 #1 entitled "The Capehart Caper" I couldn't upload the Jim Murray photo but here's link to it on Robin Unger's great website: http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=41&pos=18 --Thomas That's it. Thanks. Capehart has always been of interest to me as well as Nagell. The sheriff's office in California had a photo of Capehart which they misplaced and they were unable to locate it. I was promised a call if they located it, but never heard back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Bill, Here are both photos and the story: I don't know how Mr. Armstrong got the photos, Jack White may know that story, but these were pictures taken by the Cuban government in the fall of 1963. This man visited the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and called himself Lee Harvey Oswald. On a Friday afternoon on 9/27/63, Oswald arrived at the consulate, he handed them an application to obtain a Cuban visa right there on the spot for a Monday departure on 9/30/63, even though he had no Soviet visa. When Oswald was refused the visa, he acted out and caused an unforgettably boisterous scene. Despite American claims, none of the consulate employees who were present could positively identify Oswald as the person at the Cuban consulate that day. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue was emphatic in testifying that Oswald was not the "dark blond" man angrily demanding an instant visa. on page 646-47 of Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong: The Cuban's description of Oswald Oswald's visit to the Cuban Consulate, and his physical description, were described by Silvia Duran during her interrogation by the DFS on November 23, the day after the assassination. A 10 page statement was signed jointly by Duran and the DFS and was given to the Warren Commission in May 1964, but only after several revisions. The original version of this report, which was given to the CIA station in Mexico City, described Oswald as "blond, short, dressed unelegantly (sic), and whose face turned red when angry." These descriptions were removed before the report was given to the Warren Commission. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue and Silvia Duran remembered the Oswald who visited their consulate had thin, blond hair, stood about 5-foot-6, and was over 30 years old. Azcue saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television after the assassination and said he "did not even resemble" the man who visited the consulate. On April 1, 1978 Azcue was interviewed by the HSCA and said that he would never have identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who visited the Cuban Consulate in Sept. 1963. On Thursday Aug. 3, 1978 Azcue was interviewed on television by CBS evening news reporter Ed Rable. Azcue produced photographs (above) taken in the Cuban consulate, of the man who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald. One photo showed a man in a light colored sweater walking toward the lower left of the picture (left). The second photo was of a man walking toward the right (right). Neither of these photos looked anything like the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy. Duran would go on describe the Mexico City Oswald as having blond hair and blue eyes. In 1978 HSCA investigator Edwin Lopez located and interviewed two CIA assets who worked inside the Cuban Consulate during Oswald's visit. Both people said the person who visited the consulate was not the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy and both told Lopez that they reported this to the CIA station in Mexico City. Thanks for all your great work Bill, Zach Upon reflection, I do not consider the photo on the right to have been taken any sooner than the mid '70s. I base this on the cut of the suit, width of tie and size of knot, and on his hair style. Additionally, if one accepts Duran's description that "Oswald" was blond and short, one should also accept the clothing description. Mr Photo-On-The-Right may not be a fashion plate, but rarely do you see someone dressed in suit and tie being described as "inelegant". It may fit the description of the man on the left, who additionally, looks to me like the type who might just turn red when angry. Otherwise the possibility exists that both photos came from the '70s. If anyone is really interested in showing that this photo could have been taken on the date claimed by Azcue, I'd recommend showing it to an expert in the fashion industry and ask them to try and pinpoint, based on clothing and hairstyle, what era the photo was taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Bill, Here are both photos and the story: I don't know how Mr. Armstrong got the photos, Jack White may know that story, but these were pictures taken by the Cuban government in the fall of 1963. This man visited the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and called himself Lee Harvey Oswald. On a Friday afternoon on 9/27/63, Oswald arrived at the consulate, he handed them an application to obtain a Cuban visa right there on the spot for a Monday departure on 9/30/63, even though he had no Soviet visa. When Oswald was refused the visa, he acted out and caused an unforgettably boisterous scene. Despite American claims, none of the consulate employees who were present could positively identify Oswald as the person at the Cuban consulate that day. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue was emphatic in testifying that Oswald was not the "dark blond" man angrily demanding an instant visa. on page 646-47 of Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong: The Cuban's description of Oswald Oswald's visit to the Cuban Consulate, and his physical description, were described by Silvia Duran during her interrogation by the DFS on November 23, the day after the assassination. A 10 page statement was signed jointly by Duran and the DFS and was given to the Warren Commission in May 1964, but only after several revisions. The original version of this report, which was given to the CIA station in Mexico City, described Oswald as "blond, short, dressed unelegantly (sic), and whose face turned red when angry." These descriptions were removed before the report was given to the Warren Commission. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue and Silvia Duran remembered the Oswald who visited their consulate had thin, blond hair, stood about 5-foot-6, and was over 30 years old. Azcue saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television after the assassination and said he "did not even resemble" the man who visited the consulate. On April 1, 1978 Azcue was interviewed by the HSCA and said that he would never have identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who visited the Cuban Consulate in Sept. 1963. On Thursday Aug. 3, 1978 Azcue was interviewed on television by CBS evening news reporter Ed Rable. Azcue produced photographs (above) taken in the Cuban consulate, of the man who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald. One photo showed a man in a light colored sweater walking toward the lower left of the picture (left). The second photo was of a man walking toward the right (right). Neither of these photos looked anything like the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy. Duran would go on describe the Mexico City Oswald as having blond hair and blue eyes. In 1978 HSCA investigator Edwin Lopez located and interviewed two CIA assets who worked inside the Cuban Consulate during Oswald's visit. Both people said the person who visited the consulate was not the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy and both told Lopez that they reported this to the CIA station in Mexico City. Thanks for all your great work Bill, Zach Upon reflection, I do not consider the photo on the right to have been taken any sooner than the mid '70s. I base this on the cut of the suit, width of tie and size of knot, and on his hair style. Additionally, if one accepts Duran's description that "Oswald" was blond and short, one should also accept the clothing description. Mr Photo-On-The-Right may not be a fashion plate, but rarely do you see someone dressed in suit and tie being described as "inelegant". It may fit the description of the man on the left, who additionally, looks to me like the type who might just turn red when angry. Otherwise the possibility exists that both photos came from the '70s. If anyone is really interested in showing that this photo could have been taken on the date claimed by Azcue, I'd recommend showing it to an expert in the fashion industry and ask them to try and pinpoint, based on clothing and hairstyle, what era the photo was taken. There is something I am a little unclear about. Are the two photographs of the Oswald Mexico City Mystery man from Azcue's photo collection. It seems that has been implied, or stated but I wanted to know for clarity's sake. And if they are not that would seem to make it incumbent to obtain Azcue's photo's, as that would eliminate the possibility of them sitting in a vault at the National Archives till 2039 or whatever. There is one other point, however it is more of a curiosity; The descriptions of this Oswald, particularly the 'face gets red when angry," I am aware the cause of the anger was being informed of the length of time it would take to get a visa exceeded the amount of time the "pretend" Oswald, who apparently knew how long the real Oswald's visa was good for.......Remember the quote ..."unless I used my real name." When Albert Osborne/John Howard Bowen was asked to describe the person sitting next to him NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: SEE FBI 105-82555-1929 pg 3 Found in: FBI Oswald Mexico City File (105-3702) John Bowen trip from Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City Mexico September 26-27 1963 and sat next to a young man described as 29 years of age 5"8 150 pounds thin blond hair dark complexion who appeared to be Mexican RIF#: 124-10029-10337 (UNDATED) FBI#: 105-3702-314 http://www.maryferre....do?docId=61381 I have wondered where did this guy come from, and recalled the account of Sam Newman mentioning coming into the aptly named Newman Building and finding a man in there, who is an electrician, CD 87 page 836 see NEWMAN, SAM ----- Sources: CD 87 SS 517*, pp. 5-6 DTR-00381; HSCA Vol 10, pp. 123-128 Mary's Comments: Owned 544 Camp Street, New Orleans, LA. When shown photograph of LHO, he could not recall ever having seen him. He described a young white male, approximately 22-24, 5' 9-1/2", 185lbs, fair complexion, light brown or blond hair, who spoke with a Spanish accent, who was found unlocking the door to the offices previously occupied by the CRC about ten days to two weeks after CRC left the Newman Building. * CD 87 pages 516-19 are pretty much illegible...and the Mary Ferrell pages seem in error, the page is actually CD 87 page 836] account is also in Oswald and the CIA - Newman What is interesting is Sam Newman was also an electrician.......At any rate, I wonder if these two persons are the same, seemingly a member of the by then dissolved Cuban Revolutionary Council goes to Mexico City to implicate Oswald, there is a sense of logic to it, and the descriptions are not that different. When the Cuban Revolutionary Council fell behind in their rent they kept their set of keys, which is why the unidentified person with blond hair was there in the first place.....I have run across something very similar to this before, concerning a big Hispanic/Latin hanging around the Crescent City Garage/Adrian Alba's place when Oswald was not there, where there were copies of The American Rifleman laid out on the table, in a document I read in the Other Individual's section of the microfiche collection the passage states that "Oswald brought his collection of magazines there." Which leads me to believe it was probably Lawrence Howard, Jr., who facilitated setting up Oswald through Seaport Traders, using the wrong issue of the American Rifleman of course. See CD 75 page 264-66 At any rate I believe the person Sam Newman encountered after the CRC left should be kept in mind, as well as the remote possibility that Azcue's photographs could be obtained, if the ones on this thread are not "those photographs." They are definitely not Maurice Bishop, [joke] If there is any additional thoughts regarding electricians...See NEAL, SAM (IS IT "NEILL"?) Sources: HSCA Vol 9, pp. 595-596, 779, 781 Mary's Comments: Master electrician for NASA. With Robert Ray McKeown when "Oswald" visited McKeown. Sam Neal is a story in itself........ Another issue that I don't believe some researchers realize are the amount of Cuban Embassy personnel, who were actually working for the CIA. There is no indication Miguel Roa was ever turned AMMUG-1 was asked to make inquiries about him when Roa left the DGI in April '64, but I thought the physical description was noteworthy. AMMUG-1 DEBRIEFING REPORT #198: JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ 'ROA (MIGUEL ROA)/ pg 1 Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 21: AMMUG) 1964 JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ ROA 201-730852 The last time that Source saw Subject was in Mexico, D.F. in March of this year RIF#: 104-10239-10199 (09/16/65) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=22080 excerpt from INFORMATION REPORT: MIGUEL ROA SUBJ: AMMUG 1 DISSEMS born about 1935, is 5 feet seven inches tall 1 illegible lbs. has bushy blond hair, white skin, a red face and a thin nose, pseudonym MARCOS-1 ROA is a friend of Manuel VEGA http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=18589 Edited June 12, 2011 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Bill, Here are both photos and the story: I don't know how Mr. Armstrong got the photos, Jack White may know that story, but these were pictures taken by the Cuban government in the fall of 1963. This man visited the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and called himself Lee Harvey Oswald. On a Friday afternoon on 9/27/63, Oswald arrived at the consulate, he handed them an application to obtain a Cuban visa right there on the spot for a Monday departure on 9/30/63, even though he had no Soviet visa. When Oswald was refused the visa, he acted out and caused an unforgettably boisterous scene. Despite American claims, none of the consulate employees who were present could positively identify Oswald as the person at the Cuban consulate that day. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue was emphatic in testifying that Oswald was not the "dark blond" man angrily demanding an instant visa. on page 646-47 of Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong: The Cuban's description of Oswald Oswald's visit to the Cuban Consulate, and his physical description, were described by Silvia Duran during her interrogation by the DFS on November 23, the day after the assassination. A 10 page statement was signed jointly by Duran and the DFS and was given to the Warren Commission in May 1964, but only after several revisions. The original version of this report, which was given to the CIA station in Mexico City, described Oswald as "blond, short, dressed unelegantly (sic), and whose face turned red when angry." These descriptions were removed before the report was given to the Warren Commission. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue and Silvia Duran remembered the Oswald who visited their consulate had thin, blond hair, stood about 5-foot-6, and was over 30 years old. Azcue saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television after the assassination and said he "did not even resemble" the man who visited the consulate. On April 1, 1978 Azcue was interviewed by the HSCA and said that he would never have identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who visited the Cuban Consulate in Sept. 1963. On Thursday Aug. 3, 1978 Azcue was interviewed on television by CBS evening news reporter Ed Rable. Azcue produced photographs (above) taken in the Cuban consulate, of the man who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald. One photo showed a man in a light colored sweater walking toward the lower left of the picture (left). The second photo was of a man walking toward the right (right). Neither of these photos looked anything like the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy. Duran would go on describe the Mexico City Oswald as having blond hair and blue eyes. In 1978 HSCA investigator Edwin Lopez located and interviewed two CIA assets who worked inside the Cuban Consulate during Oswald's visit. Both people said the person who visited the consulate was not the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy and both told Lopez that they reported this to the CIA station in Mexico City. Thanks for all your great work Bill, Zach Upon reflection, I do not consider the photo on the right to have been taken any sooner than the mid '70s. I base this on the cut of the suit, width of tie and size of knot, and on his hair style. Additionally, if one accepts Duran's description that "Oswald" was blond and short, one should also accept the clothing description. Mr Photo-On-The-Right may not be a fashion plate, but rarely do you see someone dressed in suit and tie being described as "inelegant". It may fit the description of the man on the left, who additionally, looks to me like the type who might just turn red when angry. Otherwise the possibility exists that both photos came from the '70s. If anyone is really interested in showing that this photo could have been taken on the date claimed by Azcue, I'd recommend showing it to an expert in the fashion industry and ask them to try and pinpoint, based on clothing and hairstyle, what era the photo was taken. There is something I am a little unclear about. Are the two photographs of the Oswald Mexico City Mystery man from Azcue's photo collection. It seems that has been implied, or stated but I wanted to know for clarity's sake. And if they are not that would seem to make it incumbent to obtain Azcue's photo's, as that would eliminate the possibility of them sitting in a vault at the National Archives till 2039 or whatever. There is one other point, however it is more of a curiosity; The descriptions of this Oswald, particularly the 'face gets red when angry," I am aware the cause of the anger was being informed of the length of time it would take to get a visa exceeded the amount of time the "pretend" Oswald, who apparently knew how long the real Oswald's visa was good for.......Remember the quote ..."unless I used my real name." When Albert Osborne/John Howard Bowen was asked to describe the person sitting next to him NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: SEE FBI 105-82555-1929 pg 3 Found in: FBI Oswald Mexico City File (105-3702) John Bowen trip from Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City Mexico September 26-27 1963 and sat next to a young man described as 29 years of age 5"8 150 pounds thin blond hair dark complexion who appeared to be Mexican RIF#: 124-10029-10337 (UNDATED) FBI#: 105-3702-314 http://www.maryferre....do?docId=61381 I have wondered where did this guy come from, and recalled the account of Sam Newman mentioning coming into the aptly named Newman Building and finding a man in there, who is an electrician, CD 87 page 836 see NEWMAN, SAM ----- Sources: CD 87 SS 517*, pp. 5-6 DTR-00381; HSCA Vol 10, pp. 123-128 Mary's Comments: Owned 544 Camp Street, New Orleans, LA. When shown photograph of LHO, he could not recall ever having seen him. He described a young white male, approximately 22-24, 5' 9-1/2", 185lbs, fair complexion, light brown or blond hair, who spoke with a Spanish accent, who was found unlocking the door to the offices previously occupied by the CRC about ten days to two weeks after CRC left the Newman Building. * CD 87 pages 516-19 are pretty much illegible...and the Mary Ferrell pages seem in error, the page is actually CD 87 page 836] account is also in Oswald and the CIA - Newman What is interesting is Sam Newman was also an electrician.......At any rate, I wonder if these two persons are the same, seemingly a member of the by then dissolved Cuban Revolutionary Council goes to Mexico City to implicate Oswald, there is a sense of logic to it, and the descriptions are not that different. When the Cuban Revolutionary Council fell behind in their rent they kept their set of keys, which is why the unidentified person with blond hair was there in the first place.....I have run across something very similar to this before, concerning a big Hispanic/Latin hanging around the Crescent City Garage/Adrian Alba's place when Oswald was not there, where there were copies of The American Rifleman laid out on the table, in a document I read in the Other Individual's section of the microfiche collection the passage states that "Oswald brought his collection of magazines there." Which leads me to believe it was probably Lawrence Howard, Jr., who facilitated setting up Oswald through Seaport Traders, using the wrong issue of the American Rifleman of course. See CD 75 page 264-66 At any rate I believe the person Sam Newman encountered after the CRC left should be kept in mind, as well as the remote possibility that Azcue's photographs could be obtained, if the ones on this thread are not "those photographs." They are definitely not Maurice Bishop, [joke] If there is any additional thoughts regarding electricians...See NEAL, SAM (IS IT "NEILL"?) Sources: HSCA Vol 9, pp. 595-596, 779, 781 Mary's Comments: Master electrician for NASA. With Robert Ray McKeown when "Oswald" visited McKeown. Sam Neal is a story in itself........ Another issue that I don't believe some researchers realize are the amount of Cuban Embassy personnel, who were actually working for the CIA. There is no indication Miguel Roa was ever turned AMMUG-1 was asked to make inquiries about him when Roa left the DGI in April '64, but I thought the physical description was noteworthy. AMMUG-1 DEBRIEFING REPORT #198: JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ 'ROA (MIGUEL ROA)/ pg 1 Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 21: AMMUG) 1964 JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ ROA 201-730852 The last time that Source saw Subject was in Mexico, D.F. in March of this year RIF#: 104-10239-10199 (09/16/65) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferre....do?docId=22080 excerpt from INFORMATION REPORT: MIGUEL ROA SUBJ: AMMUG 1 DISSEMS born about 1935, is 5 feet seven inches tall 1 illegible lbs. has bushy blond hair, white skin, a red face and a thin nose, pseudonym MARCOS-1 ROA is a friend of Manuel VEGA http://www.maryferre....do?docId=18589 Thanks Robert, BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Bill, Here are both photos and the story: I don't know how Mr. Armstrong got the photos, Jack White may know that story, but these were pictures taken by the Cuban government in the fall of 1963. This man visited the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and called himself Lee Harvey Oswald. On a Friday afternoon on 9/27/63, Oswald arrived at the consulate, he handed them an application to obtain a Cuban visa right there on the spot for a Monday departure on 9/30/63, even though he had no Soviet visa. When Oswald was refused the visa, he acted out and caused an unforgettably boisterous scene. Despite American claims, none of the consulate employees who were present could positively identify Oswald as the person at the Cuban consulate that day. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue was emphatic in testifying that Oswald was not the "dark blond" man angrily demanding an instant visa. on page 646-47 of Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong: The Cuban's description of Oswald Oswald's visit to the Cuban Consulate, and his physical description, were described by Silvia Duran during her interrogation by the DFS on November 23, the day after the assassination. A 10 page statement was signed jointly by Duran and the DFS and was given to the Warren Commission in May 1964, but only after several revisions. The original version of this report, which was given to the CIA station in Mexico City, described Oswald as "blond, short, dressed unelegantly (sic), and whose face turned red when angry." These descriptions were removed before the report was given to the Warren Commission. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue and Silvia Duran remembered the Oswald who visited their consulate had thin, blond hair, stood about 5-foot-6, and was over 30 years old. Azcue saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television after the assassination and said he "did not even resemble" the man who visited the consulate. On April 1, 1978 Azcue was interviewed by the HSCA and said that he would never have identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who visited the Cuban Consulate in Sept. 1963. On Thursday Aug. 3, 1978 Azcue was interviewed on television by CBS evening news reporter Ed Rable. Azcue produced photographs (above) taken in the Cuban consulate, of the man who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald. One photo showed a man in a light colored sweater walking toward the lower left of the picture (left). The second photo was of a man walking toward the right (right). Neither of these photos looked anything like the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy. Duran would go on describe the Mexico City Oswald as having blond hair and blue eyes. In 1978 HSCA investigator Edwin Lopez located and interviewed two CIA assets who worked inside the Cuban Consulate during Oswald's visit. Both people said the person who visited the consulate was not the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy and both told Lopez that they reported this to the CIA station in Mexico City. Thanks for all your great work Bill, Zach Upon reflection, I do not consider the photo on the right to have been taken any sooner than the mid '70s. I base this on the cut of the suit, width of tie and size of knot, and on his hair style. Additionally, if one accepts Duran's description that "Oswald" was blond and short, one should also accept the clothing description. Mr Photo-On-The-Right may not be a fashion plate, but rarely do you see someone dressed in suit and tie being described as "inelegant". It may fit the description of the man on the left, who additionally, looks to me like the type who might just turn red when angry. Otherwise the possibility exists that both photos came from the '70s. If anyone is really interested in showing that this photo could have been taken on the date claimed by Azcue, I'd recommend showing it to an expert in the fashion industry and ask them to try and pinpoint, based on clothing and hairstyle, what era the photo was taken. There is something I am a little unclear about. Are the two photographs of the Oswald Mexico City Mystery man from Azcue's photo collection. It seems that has been implied, or stated but I wanted to know for clarity's sake. And if they are not that would seem to make it incumbent to obtain Azcue's photo's, as that would eliminate the possibility of them sitting in a vault at the National Archives till 2039 or whatever. There is one other point, however it is more of a curiosity; The descriptions of this Oswald, particularly the 'face gets red when angry," I am aware the cause of the anger was being informed of the length of time it would take to get a visa exceeded the amount of time the "pretend" Oswald, who apparently knew how long the real Oswald's visa was good for.......Remember the quote ..."unless I used my real name." When Albert Osborne/John Howard Bowen was asked to describe the person sitting next to him NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: SEE FBI 105-82555-1929 pg 3 Found in: FBI Oswald Mexico City File (105-3702) John Bowen trip from Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City Mexico September 26-27 1963 and sat next to a young man described as 29 years of age 5"8 150 pounds thin blond hair dark complexion who appeared to be Mexican RIF#: 124-10029-10337 (UNDATED) FBI#: 105-3702-314 http://www.maryferre....do?docId=61381 I have wondered where did this guy come from, and recalled the account of Sam Newman mentioning coming into the aptly named Newman Building and finding a man in there, who is an electrician, CD 87 page 836 see NEWMAN, SAM ----- Sources: CD 87 SS 517*, pp. 5-6 DTR-00381; HSCA Vol 10, pp. 123-128 Mary's Comments: Owned 544 Camp Street, New Orleans, LA. When shown photograph of LHO, he could not recall ever having seen him. He described a young white male, approximately 22-24, 5' 9-1/2", 185lbs, fair complexion, light brown or blond hair, who spoke with a Spanish accent, who was found unlocking the door to the offices previously occupied by the CRC about ten days to two weeks after CRC left the Newman Building. * CD 87 pages 516-19 are pretty much illegible...and the Mary Ferrell pages seem in error, the page is actually CD 87 page 836] account is also in Oswald and the CIA - Newman What is interesting is Sam Newman was also an electrician.......At any rate, I wonder if these two persons are the same, seemingly a member of the by then dissolved Cuban Revolutionary Council goes to Mexico City to implicate Oswald, there is a sense of logic to it, and the descriptions are not that different. When the Cuban Revolutionary Council fell behind in their rent they kept their set of keys, which is why the unidentified person with blond hair was there in the first place.....I have run across something very similar to this before, concerning a big Hispanic/Latin hanging around the Crescent City Garage/Adrian Alba's place when Oswald was not there, where there were copies of The American Rifleman laid out on the table, in a document I read in the Other Individual's section of the microfiche collection the passage states that "Oswald brought his collection of magazines there." Which leads me to believe it was probably Lawrence Howard, Jr., who facilitated setting up Oswald through Seaport Traders, using the wrong issue of the American Rifleman of course. See CD 75 page 264-66 At any rate I believe the person Sam Newman encountered after the CRC left should be kept in mind, as well as the remote possibility that Azcue's photographs could be obtained, if the ones on this thread are not "those photographs." They are definitely not Maurice Bishop, [joke] If there is any additional thoughts regarding electricians...See NEAL, SAM (IS IT "NEILL"?) Sources: HSCA Vol 9, pp. 595-596, 779, 781 Mary's Comments: Master electrician for NASA. With Robert Ray McKeown when "Oswald" visited McKeown. Sam Neal is a story in itself........ Another issue that I don't believe some researchers realize are the amount of Cuban Embassy personnel, who were actually working for the CIA. There is no indication Miguel Roa was ever turned AMMUG-1 was asked to make inquiries about him when Roa left the DGI in April '64, but I thought the physical description was noteworthy. AMMUG-1 DEBRIEFING REPORT #198: JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ 'ROA (MIGUEL ROA)/ pg 1 Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 21: AMMUG) 1964 JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ ROA 201-730852 The last time that Source saw Subject was in Mexico, D.F. in March of this year RIF#: 104-10239-10199 (09/16/65) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferre....do?docId=22080 excerpt from INFORMATION REPORT: MIGUEL ROA SUBJ: AMMUG 1 DISSEMS born about 1935, is 5 feet seven inches tall 1 illegible lbs. has bushy blond hair, white skin, a red face and a thin nose, pseudonym MARCOS-1 ROA is a friend of Manuel VEGA http://www.maryferre....do?docId=18589 Thanks Robert, BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martha Moyer Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Bill, Here are both photos and the story: I don't know how Mr. Armstrong got the photos, Jack White may know that story, but these were pictures taken by the Cuban government in the fall of 1963. This man visited the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and called himself Lee Harvey Oswald. On a Friday afternoon on 9/27/63, Oswald arrived at the consulate, he handed them an application to obtain a Cuban visa right there on the spot for a Monday departure on 9/30/63, even though he had no Soviet visa. When Oswald was refused the visa, he acted out and caused an unforgettably boisterous scene. Despite American claims, none of the consulate employees who were present could positively identify Oswald as the person at the Cuban consulate that day. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue was emphatic in testifying that Oswald was not the "dark blond" man angrily demanding an instant visa. on page 646-47 of Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong: The Cuban's description of Oswald Oswald's visit to the Cuban Consulate, and his physical description, were described by Silvia Duran during her interrogation by the DFS on November 23, the day after the assassination. A 10 page statement was signed jointly by Duran and the DFS and was given to the Warren Commission in May 1964, but only after several revisions. The original version of this report, which was given to the CIA station in Mexico City, described Oswald as "blond, short, dressed unelegantly (sic), and whose face turned red when angry." These descriptions were removed before the report was given to the Warren Commission. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue and Silvia Duran remembered the Oswald who visited their consulate had thin, blond hair, stood about 5-foot-6, and was over 30 years old. Azcue saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television after the assassination and said he "did not even resemble" the man who visited the consulate. On April 1, 1978 Azcue was interviewed by the HSCA and said that he would never have identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who visited the Cuban Consulate in Sept. 1963. On Thursday Aug. 3, 1978 Azcue was interviewed on television by CBS evening news reporter Ed Rable. Azcue produced photographs (above) taken in the Cuban consulate, of the man who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald. One photo showed a man in a light colored sweater walking toward the lower left of the picture (left). The second photo was of a man walking toward the right (right). Neither of these photos looked anything like the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy. Duran would go on describe the Mexico City Oswald as having blond hair and blue eyes. In 1978 HSCA investigator Edwin Lopez located and interviewed two CIA assets who worked inside the Cuban Consulate during Oswald's visit. Both people said the person who visited the consulate was not the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy and both told Lopez that they reported this to the CIA station in Mexico City. Thanks for all your great work Bill, Zach Upon reflection, I do not consider the photo on the right to have been taken any sooner than the mid '70s. I base this on the cut of the suit, width of tie and size of knot, and on his hair style. Additionally, if one accepts Duran's description that "Oswald" was blond and short, one should also accept the clothing description. Mr Photo-On-The-Right may not be a fashion plate, but rarely do you see someone dressed in suit and tie being described as "inelegant". It may fit the description of the man on the left, who additionally, looks to me like the type who might just turn red when angry. Otherwise the possibility exists that both photos came from the '70s. If anyone is really interested in showing that this photo could have been taken on the date claimed by Azcue, I'd recommend showing it to an expert in the fashion industry and ask them to try and pinpoint, based on clothing and hairstyle, what era the photo was taken. There is something I am a little unclear about. Are the two photographs of the Oswald Mexico City Mystery man from Azcue's photo collection. It seems that has been implied, or stated but I wanted to know for clarity's sake. And if they are not that would seem to make it incumbent to obtain Azcue's photo's, as that would eliminate the possibility of them sitting in a vault at the National Archives till 2039 or whatever. There is one other point, however it is more of a curiosity; The descriptions of this Oswald, particularly the 'face gets red when angry," I am aware the cause of the anger was being informed of the length of time it would take to get a visa exceeded the amount of time the "pretend" Oswald, who apparently knew how long the real Oswald's visa was good for.......Remember the quote ..."unless I used my real name." When Albert Osborne/John Howard Bowen was asked to describe the person sitting next to him NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: SEE FBI 105-82555-1929 pg 3 Found in: FBI Oswald Mexico City File (105-3702) John Bowen trip from Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City Mexico September 26-27 1963 and sat next to a young man described as 29 years of age 5"8 150 pounds thin blond hair dark complexion who appeared to be Mexican RIF#: 124-10029-10337 (UNDATED) FBI#: 105-3702-314 http://www.maryferre....do?docId=61381 I have wondered where did this guy come from, and recalled the account of Sam Newman mentioning coming into the aptly named Newman Building and finding a man in there, who is an electrician, CD 87 page 836 see NEWMAN, SAM ----- Sources: CD 87 SS 517*, pp. 5-6 DTR-00381; HSCA Vol 10, pp. 123-128 Mary's Comments: Owned 544 Camp Street, New Orleans, LA. When shown photograph of LHO, he could not recall ever having seen him. He described a young white male, approximately 22-24, 5' 9-1/2", 185lbs, fair complexion, light brown or blond hair, who spoke with a Spanish accent, who was found unlocking the door to the offices previously occupied by the CRC about ten days to two weeks after CRC left the Newman Building. * CD 87 pages 516-19 are pretty much illegible...and the Mary Ferrell pages seem in error, the page is actually CD 87 page 836] account is also in Oswald and the CIA - Newman What is interesting is Sam Newman was also an electrician.......At any rate, I wonder if these two persons are the same, seemingly a member of the by then dissolved Cuban Revolutionary Council goes to Mexico City to implicate Oswald, there is a sense of logic to it, and the descriptions are not that different. When the Cuban Revolutionary Council fell behind in their rent they kept their set of keys, which is why the unidentified person with blond hair was there in the first place.....I have run across something very similar to this before, concerning a big Hispanic/Latin hanging around the Crescent City Garage/Adrian Alba's place when Oswald was not there, where there were copies of The American Rifleman laid out on the table, in a document I read in the Other Individual's section of the microfiche collection the passage states that "Oswald brought his collection of magazines there." Which leads me to believe it was probably Lawrence Howard, Jr., who facilitated setting up Oswald through Seaport Traders, using the wrong issue of the American Rifleman of course. See CD 75 page 264-66 At any rate I believe the person Sam Newman encountered after the CRC left should be kept in mind, as well as the remote possibility that Azcue's photographs could be obtained, if the ones on this thread are not "those photographs." They are definitely not Maurice Bishop, [joke] If there is any additional thoughts regarding electricians...See NEAL, SAM (IS IT "NEILL"?) Sources: HSCA Vol 9, pp. 595-596, 779, 781 Mary's Comments: Master electrician for NASA. With Robert Ray McKeown when "Oswald" visited McKeown. Sam Neal is a story in itself........ Another issue that I don't believe some researchers realize are the amount of Cuban Embassy personnel, who were actually working for the CIA. There is no indication Miguel Roa was ever turned AMMUG-1 was asked to make inquiries about him when Roa left the DGI in April '64, but I thought the physical description was noteworthy. AMMUG-1 DEBRIEFING REPORT #198: JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ 'ROA (MIGUEL ROA)/ pg 1 Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 21: AMMUG) 1964 JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ ROA 201-730852 The last time that Source saw Subject was in Mexico, D.F. in March of this year RIF#: 104-10239-10199 (09/16/65) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferre....do?docId=22080 excerpt from INFORMATION REPORT: MIGUEL ROA SUBJ: AMMUG 1 DISSEMS born about 1935, is 5 feet seven inches tall 1 illegible lbs. has bushy blond hair, white skin, a red face and a thin nose, pseudonym MARCOS-1 ROA is a friend of Manuel VEGA http://www.maryferre....do?docId=18589 Thanks Robert, BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martha Moyer Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Bill, Here are both photos and the story: I don't know how Mr. Armstrong got the photos, Jack White may know that story, but these were pictures taken by the Cuban government in the fall of 1963. This man visited the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and called himself Lee Harvey Oswald. On a Friday afternoon on 9/27/63, Oswald arrived at the consulate, he handed them an application to obtain a Cuban visa right there on the spot for a Monday departure on 9/30/63, even though he had no Soviet visa. When Oswald was refused the visa, he acted out and caused an unforgettably boisterous scene. Despite American claims, none of the consulate employees who were present could positively identify Oswald as the person at the Cuban consulate that day. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue was emphatic in testifying that Oswald was not the "dark blond" man angrily demanding an instant visa. on page 646-47 of Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong: The Cuban's description of Oswald Oswald's visit to the Cuban Consulate, and his physical description, were described by Silvia Duran during her interrogation by the DFS on November 23, the day after the assassination. A 10 page statement was signed jointly by Duran and the DFS and was given to the Warren Commission in May 1964, but only after several revisions. The original version of this report, which was given to the CIA station in Mexico City, described Oswald as "blond, short, dressed unelegantly (sic), and whose face turned red when angry." These descriptions were removed before the report was given to the Warren Commission. Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue and Silvia Duran remembered the Oswald who visited their consulate had thin, blond hair, stood about 5-foot-6, and was over 30 years old. Azcue saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television after the assassination and said he "did not even resemble" the man who visited the consulate. On April 1, 1978 Azcue was interviewed by the HSCA and said that he would never have identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who visited the Cuban Consulate in Sept. 1963. On Thursday Aug. 3, 1978 Azcue was interviewed on television by CBS evening news reporter Ed Rable. Azcue produced photographs (above) taken in the Cuban consulate, of the man who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald. One photo showed a man in a light colored sweater walking toward the lower left of the picture (left). The second photo was of a man walking toward the right (right). Neither of these photos looked anything like the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy. Duran would go on describe the Mexico City Oswald as having blond hair and blue eyes. In 1978 HSCA investigator Edwin Lopez located and interviewed two CIA assets who worked inside the Cuban Consulate during Oswald's visit. Both people said the person who visited the consulate was not the man accused of assassinating President Kennedy and both told Lopez that they reported this to the CIA station in Mexico City. Thanks for all your great work Bill, Zach Upon reflection, I do not consider the photo on the right to have been taken any sooner than the mid '70s. I base this on the cut of the suit, width of tie and size of knot, and on his hair style. Additionally, if one accepts Duran's description that "Oswald" was blond and short, one should also accept the clothing description. Mr Photo-On-The-Right may not be a fashion plate, but rarely do you see someone dressed in suit and tie being described as "inelegant". It may fit the description of the man on the left, who additionally, looks to me like the type who might just turn red when angry. Otherwise the possibility exists that both photos came from the '70s. If anyone is really interested in showing that this photo could have been taken on the date claimed by Azcue, I'd recommend showing it to an expert in the fashion industry and ask them to try and pinpoint, based on clothing and hairstyle, what era the photo was taken. There is something I am a little unclear about. Are the two photographs of the Oswald Mexico City Mystery man from Azcue's photo collection. It seems that has been implied, or stated but I wanted to know for clarity's sake. And if they are not that would seem to make it incumbent to obtain Azcue's photo's, as that would eliminate the possibility of them sitting in a vault at the National Archives till 2039 or whatever. There is one other point, however it is more of a curiosity; The descriptions of this Oswald, particularly the 'face gets red when angry," I am aware the cause of the anger was being informed of the length of time it would take to get a visa exceeded the amount of time the "pretend" Oswald, who apparently knew how long the real Oswald's visa was good for.......Remember the quote ..."unless I used my real name." When Albert Osborne/John Howard Bowen was asked to describe the person sitting next to him NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: SEE FBI 105-82555-1929 pg 3 Found in: FBI Oswald Mexico City File (105-3702) John Bowen trip from Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City Mexico September 26-27 1963 and sat next to a young man described as 29 years of age 5"8 150 pounds thin blond hair dark complexion who appeared to be Mexican RIF#: 124-10029-10337 (UNDATED) FBI#: 105-3702-314 http://www.maryferre....do?docId=61381 I have wondered where did this guy come from, and recalled the account of Sam Newman mentioning coming into the aptly named Newman Building and finding a man in there, who is an electrician, CD 87 page 836 see NEWMAN, SAM ----- Sources: CD 87 SS 517*, pp. 5-6 DTR-00381; HSCA Vol 10, pp. 123-128 Mary's Comments: Owned 544 Camp Street, New Orleans, LA. When shown photograph of LHO, he could not recall ever having seen him. He described a young white male, approximately 22-24, 5' 9-1/2", 185lbs, fair complexion, light brown or blond hair, who spoke with a Spanish accent, who was found unlocking the door to the offices previously occupied by the CRC about ten days to two weeks after CRC left the Newman Building. * CD 87 pages 516-19 are pretty much illegible...and the Mary Ferrell pages seem in error, the page is actually CD 87 page 836] account is also in Oswald and the CIA - Newman What is interesting is Sam Newman was also an electrician.......At any rate, I wonder if these two persons are the same, seemingly a member of the by then dissolved Cuban Revolutionary Council goes to Mexico City to implicate Oswald, there is a sense of logic to it, and the descriptions are not that different. When the Cuban Revolutionary Council fell behind in their rent they kept their set of keys, which is why the unidentified person with blond hair was there in the first place.....I have run across something very similar to this before, concerning a big Hispanic/Latin hanging around the Crescent City Garage/Adrian Alba's place when Oswald was not there, where there were copies of The American Rifleman laid out on the table, in a document I read in the Other Individual's section of the microfiche collection the passage states that "Oswald brought his collection of magazines there." Which leads me to believe it was probably Lawrence Howard, Jr., who facilitated setting up Oswald through Seaport Traders, using the wrong issue of the American Rifleman of course. See CD 75 page 264-66 At any rate I believe the person Sam Newman encountered after the CRC left should be kept in mind, as well as the remote possibility that Azcue's photographs could be obtained, if the ones on this thread are not "those photographs." They are definitely not Maurice Bishop, [joke] If there is any additional thoughts regarding electricians...See NEAL, SAM (IS IT "NEILL"?) Sources: HSCA Vol 9, pp. 595-596, 779, 781 Mary's Comments: Master electrician for NASA. With Robert Ray McKeown when "Oswald" visited McKeown. Sam Neal is a story in itself........ Another issue that I don't believe some researchers realize are the amount of Cuban Embassy personnel, who were actually working for the CIA. There is no indication Miguel Roa was ever turned AMMUG-1 was asked to make inquiries about him when Roa left the DGI in April '64, but I thought the physical description was noteworthy. AMMUG-1 DEBRIEFING REPORT #198: JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ 'ROA (MIGUEL ROA)/ pg 1 Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 21: AMMUG) 1964 JOSE MIGUEL FERNANDEZ ROA 201-730852 The last time that Source saw Subject was in Mexico, D.F. in March of this year RIF#: 104-10239-10199 (09/16/65) CIA#: 80T01357A http://www.maryferre....do?docId=22080 excerpt from INFORMATION REPORT: MIGUEL ROA SUBJ: AMMUG 1 DISSEMS born about 1935, is 5 feet seven inches tall 1 illegible lbs. has bushy blond hair, white skin, a red face and a thin nose, pseudonym MARCOS-1 ROA is a friend of Manuel VEGA http://www.maryferre....do?docId=18589 Thanks Robert, BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martha Moyer Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Hi all Have been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. Much time has been spent on describing the Oswald(s) physical features. I have been noticing the clothing described. Where do you suppose the different outfits he was seen in were kept? I attempted a very long "reply" post on my new laptop and, for whatever cause, it disappeared so I am back on my trusty old PC. So if an unfinished post shows up someplace - forgive me. The gist of that post described my searching through all the DPD files which described Lee's belongings taken from his rooming house and the Paine home. Unless Lee was into rummage sales as a sideline much of the described clothing was not in his possession. A few years back I spent several hours searching through reports for any smidgen of evidence suggesting the ownership of a rifle i.e. any type of cleaning supplies, a stray cartridge or two and came up empty. I then looked for the black outfit he wore in the backyard photos - nothing. Marina, in her testimony before the WC, describing when Lee supposedly went to target practice with his rifle: "He used to wrap it up in his overcoat, raincoat" and get on the bus to go to Love Field. No overcoat or raincoat in his possessions. From all accounts - we know Oswald was very frugal so I can't imagine him tossing away articles of clothing. Just a thought - Martha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) hi marty; good to see you. there were not any cleaning supplys to clean a rifle with, that has been threaded in the past, some time ago on here, he had really very few belongings, loved the rummage sale suggestion, perhaps he did visit them, who knows, but too little of not much seems to have not turned up upon research, it appears..thanks for the information. take care best b Edited June 13, 2011 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 fwiw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) fwiw... Thanks for posting the photos Bernice, just between you and me....I have always been of the opinion that this guy is really, I don't want to say inconsequential, but, I mean the whole Mexico City issue boils down to two issues. 1. Was Oswald even in the Soviet and Cuban Embassies in Mexico City, and if not were there any other places in Mexico that Lee Harvey Oswald is generally thought to have been that he wasn't? The Lee Harvey Oswald; not lookalikes, not Harvey Lee Oswald......not Zed, just focusing on Oswald. 2. How involved was the Western Hemisphere's CIA Station involved in setting up Oswald. The answer to the first question, would be a classic example of opinion taking pole position, [to use a racing analogy] over what can honestly be agreed upon. The second question is pretty obvious, at least to me is answered by "they were in it up to their neck", and possibly someday we'll find out how the JMWAVE station and George Joannides fits in........ In light of that I believe the above person is whose photos you graciously posted is a red-herring of sorts...... Lopez the author of the Lopez Report, is allegedly quoted as saying he didn't believe Oswald was even in Mexico City, the real Lee Harvey Oswald said the only time he was in Mexico, was in Tijuana I mean if the real Oswald was never at either Embassy, does it really matter who the MC Mystery man above is......? What do you think Bernice? I might add, I certainly don't think a CIA RobotStar pulse camera would photograph the assassin of JFK, if you know what I mean....... Perhaps the most revelatory aspect of the Mexico City charade, irrespective of the Oswald Cuban Soviet Embassies, is Angleton stealing Win Scott's diary..... FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Section 193 July 9, 1977 Fred Coleman, Fred Burns Coweta, Oklahoma pilot alleges he flew Jack Ruby to Mexico before assassination El Paso. This memorandum reflects the result of an interview with Fred Coleman Route 2 Box 103A Coweta Oklahoma on May 9 1977 The records of the Dallas Texas Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation do not reflect any identifiable information regarding Fred Coleman, Fred Burns or (First Name Unknown) Gonzales [ ] Coweta, Oklahoma, telephone [redacted] voluntarily contacted SA [redacted] at Kips Big Boy Restaurant, located at 37th Street and Memorial, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and provided the following information. [ ] advised that he lived in El Paso, Texas, from approximately 1956 until 1967 and had a partnership in a Chevrolet-Cadillac Agency in El Paso with an individual named [redacted] . [redacted] also advised that he had 51- percent stock in the Crystal-Ray Airport located in El Paso, Texas during this period of time that he lived there. Other jobs held by [redacted] were flight instructor for Southwest Aviation Rangers, Pilot and employee of telephone company. [ ] advised that [ ] introduced him to (first name unknown) Gonzales, a Mexican-male, 5’11”-6’, medium build who wore a pencil-thin mustache, weight approximately 175 pounds and wore very expensive clothing on occasion and at other times casual clothing such as a sports coat. He stated that Gonzales made arrangements for him [ ] to fly individuals across the border from El Paso close to Juarez, Mexico, where these individuals would meet with other persons and then he would fly them back to El Paso. [ ] made many such trips and one of these trips ended up in his plane being crashed in Mexico, somewhere close to Big Bend National Park he advised this incident was written up in the newspapers with the names of the other two individuals. He was not prosecuted for this minor offense. [ ] advised that he made one of his trips from El Paso to near Juarez, Mexico on the same night that FBI agents captured an airline hijacker at El Paso airport [ ] advised that he purchased a B51 airplane for Gonzales sometime in 1962 and flew this airplane off the coast of Florida on a small island for Gonzales. He was supposed to have taken plane to Yucatan, Mexico however he refused to do this and was told to go to the alternate site in Florida. He advised that Gonzales stated this plane was to be used for the efforts to overthrow Fidel Castro in Cuba and that he was offered a job as a pilot by Gonzales and he refused. [ ] advised that approximately one month before the assassination of President John F Kennedy he flew an individual on two occasions from El Paso to Mexico to meet with persons there. This individual he flew from El Paso to Mexico was named Jack (last name unknown). [ ] advised that he did not know at the time but after the assassination of John F. Kennedy when pictures were displayed in various newspapers he advised that this person he flew to Juarez, Mexico was Jack Ruby. He stated that on this second occasion that he flew Ruby to Mexico to meet with an individual he met with a person who looked very much like the photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald. [ ] stated this is the only times that he has met either of these individuals and although he made several flights of this nature after the assassination of Kennedy, he never saw these individuals again. He stated that one month after this assassination, two FBI agents located him in El Paso and asked him if he was involved in smuggling activities between the United States and Mexico via airplane at which point he lied to the FBI agents and told them that he had not been involved in any flights where no flight plan was filed. He advised he did this inasmuch as he felt that he would be prosecuted for illegal activities [ ] stated that the reason he was coming to the FBI with this information at the present time is that he felt that the statute of limitations on any of his illegal activities had passed and he would not embarrass himself or his family by coming forth with information now. Coleman Name [redacted] Sex Male Race White Date of Birth [redacted] Place of Birth Oklahoma, City, Oklahoma Height 5’101/2” Weight 160 Hair Grey Eyes Blue Social Security Number [redacted] Residence Coweta, Oklahoma http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62487&relPageId=69 Here's something else to chew on. the hijacked airliner aspect of his story checks out...but all bets are off after that....... August 4, 1961 (AP) Ex-Convict Foiled in Jet Hijacking; Had Contacted Cuba Mexico Embassy Robert: The Jet was a Continental Airlines 707 indeed at El Paso International Airport His name was Leon Bearden and his son, was Cody Leon Bearden, the father had his jaw broke by an Officer Gilman and J Edgar Hoover said his arrest record dated back 20 years. It might be kindly to point out Lee Harvey Oswald is generally accepted to have been in the Soviet Union re Coleman's allegation he saw "someone who looked like...Oswald......when he flew "Ruby" to "near Juarez." Edited June 13, 2011 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martha Moyer Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Hi B I was being a little "tongue in cheek" with my comments. Sorry! You guys have come up with an amazing amount of info since I was last here. The documents,alone, are just great! Wonderful to see the dedication of the research community is still going strong. My best to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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