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Kathleen Collins

The blond Oswald in Mexico

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Guest Tom Scully

Well, Robert, thank God for that. Getting back to your intriguing post about Charles William Thomas, his efforts to document and convey what he gathered in Mexico City from his unique vandage point, his dismissal from the State Dept, his subsequent suicide, the response of his widow which prompted what appeared to be a bribe by Macomber to shut her up via a job offer at State just one pay grade below her late husband's, and Macomber's history and seemingly untouchable status, what is your opinon?

Do you think if I continue to pile on coincidence upon coincidence amongst this connected, small group, at some point will it become glaring enough to prompt one of them to attempt a public rationalization?

Isaac Don Levine claimed he heard about Bouhe's connection to Oswald via an in passing, confidential heads up from a stranger, Joseph B. Ford, brother of Declan Ford. Levine then gushes in his book about how he had heard all about Bouhe's Dallas accountancy career via his mother, Elsa Bouhe. Levine had translated her manuscript (in 1934), describing her five year imprisonment by Stalin. I've established tht Elsa died in 1957. BTW, Bouhe made several trips to France after WWII. The last one I found was a return through Montreal in 1959. Elsa's naturalization application states that her husband, Alexander Bouhe died in 1911. George, as George Bouchay, worked for his passage from Hamburg to NY in 1924, and sister Irene was detained for lack of a visa when she attempted to enter New York from France in 1934. An uncle, her mother Elsa's brother, was named as next of kin with an address in Paris.

Bouhe's last Social Secuirty payment went to an address in Plainfield, NJ.

The small group, Macomber, Alexander Ellis, GHW Bush, Ernie Byfield, Jr., Tom Devine, can be connected now through Stewart Dyckman to Bouhe.

Wasn't it problematic enough that Bush and Devine could be directly connected to DeMohrenschildt?

Levine tried to present that it was perfectly plausible that his memories of Boule and his career, a man he had never met, would all come rushing back at the mere mention of Bouhe's name, although Bouhe's mother had been dead more than six years and Levine was closest to her back in 1934, well before George became a Dallas accountant. I still see McCloy and Rockefeller all over these connections, if they are not simply coincidental.

Edited by Tom Scully

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Tom Scully wrote:

Below is a thumbnail of an image file attachment. The image file is of the 1939 Citizenship Naturalization document of George A. Bouhe. It includes the names, addresses and signatures of two sponsors of Bouhe, Stewart Dyckman and Alexander Daniloff. Stewart Dyckman's parents were Willaim A. Dyckman, son of William H. and Naomi Dyckman of Orange, NJ, and Clare M. Stewart, daughter of Douglas Stewart of Ottawa, CA, and granddaughter of a Nova Scotia lumber baron from Scotland. The W.A. Dyckman house is preserved in Dallas.

I expect that Bouhe went to Dallas at the behest of Stewart Dyckman.

Tom, I believe that you fill find material in this post of interest, Bouhe died in October 1980, ostensibly in Dallas, Texas

Would be nice if we had his obit........


Mr. Liebeler.

Where were you born, Mr. Bouhe?

Mr. Bouhe.

I was born in what was then St. Petersburg, now Leningrad, Russia, on February 11 or 24, 1904, and the difference in dates is because we had the Julian and Gregorian calendar, and I have a baptismal certificate showing, February 11.

Mr. Liebeler.

Under the old Russian calendar?

Mr. Bouhe.


Mr. Liebeler.

That would be February 24 under the present day calendar?

Mr. Bouhe.


Mr. LIEBELER, Tell us when and how it came that you came to the United States.

Mr. Bouhe.

During the years 1920 through 1923 back in Petrograd, Russia, while I was finishing my high school there, which was called the Gymnasium, although it had nothing to do with athletics, I was working for the American Relief Commission as an office boy.

It was an association to which the American Congress allocated, I think, $100 million for the relief of the starving population of Russia.

The Hon. Herbert Hoover was Chairman of that Commission. He sent American executives to Russia to set up branch

offices in several cities, including what was then already Petrograd, and I, speaking English, was an office boy.

When we finished that thing, I got a little letter of thanks which is now here framed, which is my great pride and joy, in which it says to George Alexandrovich Bouhe, in gratitude and recognition of his faithful efforts to assist the American Relief Commission in its efforts to relieve the suffering of the hungry population in Russia.

Mr. Liebeler.

After you worked for the American Relief Commission, did that lead to your coming to the United States?

Mr. Bouhe.

That is correct. My association with some of the supervisors which were American executives led to numerous discussions with them, including, the now deceased Prof. Frank Colder of Stanford University, Gen. William Haskell, who later commanded the National Guard; one of my supervisors said, "Why don't you come to America?" So after the office closed sometime in August 1923, more or less, I applied for a passport to leave Russia but was refused. Then I went across the little river separating Soviet Russia from Finland in the middle of September at night, and it was cold, and got out.

Mr. Liebeler.

You went into Finland and came to the United States?

Mr. Bouhe.

Through Germany and then to the United States in April 1924.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you eventually become an American citizen?

Mr. Bouhe.

I became an American citizen on or about June 1939.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you continue your education when you came to the United States?

Mr. Bouhe.

Not regularly and not formally. I was working for 13 years for what is now the Chase Manhattan Bank, but it had previous mergers. I attended the American Institute of Banking, and that is all I did there, which is not much.

Mr. Liebeler.

Let me ask you where you learned English, Mr. Bouhe.

Mr. Bouhe.

At home. At the age of 5 to age of 7, I had a French governess. At the age of 7 to 9, I had a German governess. At the age of 10 to maybe 11, I had an English governess.

Mr. Liebeler.

You got your first acquaintance with English through the English governess, is that correct?

Mr. Bouhe.


Mr. Liebeler.

Your formal education in the Soviet Union was confined to the gymnasium, is that correct?

Mr. Bouhe.

That's correct, which is slightly over the high school here, but it was what is called classical, namely because they taught us Latin and Greek.

Mr. Liebeler.

When did you first come to Dallas?

(Mr. Jenner entered the room.)

Mr. Liebeler.

(continued). Mr. Bouhe, this is Mr. Jenner.

Mr. Bouhe.

On July 4, 1939.

born 1904

George Bouhe died at the age of 76 in Dallas, I cannot find an obituary.

DOD October 1980


Sources: WC Report (281-2, 400-1, 716-8, 720-3, 742); WC 8 (355-78); WC 26, p. 760; CE 2807; CD 87 SS 641, p. 6; CD 205, pp. 397-398, 589, 591, 593, 598, 744; CD 206, pp. 157, 166-167, 173; CD 385 (248); CIA 665-281; HSCA Vol. XI (243); HSCA Vol. XII (75, 379); Accessories After the Fact, Meagher (XXXI, 245); Conspiracy, Summers (226); Legend, Epstein (169-71, 200)


Comments: Lived across street from Ruby who lived at 4727 Homer. Self-appointed "nursemaid" to Dallas Russian community. Attended Declan Fords' party 12/28/62.

below from


First Name: George

Middle Name:

Last Name: Bouhe

Name Suffix:

Birth Date: 11 February 1904

Social Security Number: 129-12-0860

Place of Issuance: New York

Last Residence: Dallas, Dallas, Texas

Zip Code of Last Residence: 75206

Death Date: October 1980

Estimated Age at Death: 76

Mrs. Dyckman's Funeral Planned;

Dallas Morning News; Page: 8;

Date: 11-15-1952;

Funeral Services will be held at 3:30 p.m. Saturday at Sparkman-Brand Chapel

2115 Ross, for Mrs. William S. Dyckman, 4602 Gilbert who died while on a

visit to her son Stewart Dyckman in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, Monday.

Mrs. Dyckman was seventy-six, she was a native of Oxford, Nova Scotia and

had been a resident of Dallas for forty-five years. Her husband who died in 1948,

was in the real estate business here. She was a member of the Episcopal Church

of the Incarnation.

Besides her son, Mrs. Dyckman is survived by two daughters Mrs. W. B. Newsome

of Dallas and Mrs. J.G.W. Thomas of Lowell, Mass., a brother Alan Stewart of

Ottawa, Canada and ten grandchildren.

The Rev. C. Gresham Marmion, Jr., pastor of the Episcopal Church of Incarnation,

will be in charge of the services. Burial will be at Hillcrest Memorial Park.

Pallbearers are:Emory Martin, Virgil Hooks, Jr., Lawson Goggans, Jr.,

George F. Cox, E.J. Piguet, Jack C. Swain, George Bouhe and

H.S. Ralston

He wrote a letter to the Dallas Morning News

Letters from Readers;

Dallas Morning News;

Date: 06-24-1954;

Page: 2;

Reds First Jet

To the Dallas News

In the interest of truth and true history, let me correct the story

which appeared in The News, June 20, to the effect that Nikolai

Ivanovich Kibalchich invented the jet airplane. The report went

on to state that this same Kibalchich threw the bomb that killed

Czar Nicholas II in 1881.

Kibalchich and a group of terrorists threw a bomb which killed

Alexander II, the Liberator. The killers were tried— my

grandfather was on the prosecuting staff— and executed.

Czar Nicholas II, the last czar, was killed with his family

by the Bolsheviks in 1918 by a firing squad in

Ekaterinburg, Russia. I hope his killers will be executed

some day.




Dallas Connections Harvard Club

Dallas Morning News, page 12

January 15, 1960

Dallas Morning News

John G. Penson is Nominated by Alumni Group

chairman of the Dallas Committee, a Program for Harvard College and President

of the Harvard Club of Dallas


Chicago Tribune (IL) - December 28, 1961


Deceased Name: Frieda J. Penson, nee Behrendt

Frieda J. Penson, nee Behrendt, Dec, 26, beloved wife of George E.; loving mother of Mrs. Donald L. [Eunice M.] Behrman; dear sister of Marie W. and Minna E. Behrendt, and the late Mrs. Emma Kube. Resting at the Tews Funeral Home, 79th street and Phillips avenue, until 11 a.m., Friday. Then to lie in state in Our Redeemer Lutheran church, 6430 Harvard avenue. Services 1:30 p.m. Interment Bethania. Memorials to Our Redeemer Lutheran church will be appreciated. SO 8-6959

Dallas Morning News, page 21

March 19, 1964

Dallas Morning News

Dean to Address Dinner Meeting of Harvard Club

Dr. Franklin L. Ford, dean of the faculty of Arts and Sciences at Harvard University

will be the principal speaker at the Harvard Club of Dallas dinner meeting at

6:15 pm, April 2, in the Marriot Motor Hotel......


Dallas Morning News, The (TX) - June 3, 2005

Deceased Name: PENSON ,


PENSON, , COLONEL (Retired) DAVID 88, died on Sunday, May 29 of respiratory failure in Fairfax, Virginia. He joined the Seventh Regiment of the New York National Guard in 1939. This unit was federalized in 1940 as the 207th Anti-Aircraft Regiment and was stationed at Camp Stewart, Georgia and later at Newport, Rhode Island. After serving in every enlisted grade from Private to First Sergeant, he was commissioned a Second Lieutenant in the Coast Artillery and joined the 492nd Automatic Weapons Battalion, deploying with them to North Africa. He subsequently served in Italy, participating in the Rome-Arno and North Apennines Campaigns and served for a period with the Brazilian Expeditionary Force in Italy. After World War II, Col. Penson served as Headquarters Commandant, Adak, Alaska. He was integrated into the Regular Army as an Artilleryman in July 1946. He served as a United Nations Observer in Palestine in 1948 with subsequent assignments at Fort Bliss and Fort Sill. He was transferred to the Adjutant General Corps in 1950. His first AG assignment was with the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg. Subsequent AG assignments followed with Headquarter V Corps in Germany. Headquarters U.S. Army Europe' Army Security Agency, Arlington, Virginia; Department of the Army, Washington, D.C., AG MAAG, Vietnam; Comptroller, TAGO, Department of the Army and finally AG, U.S. Army Engineer Center at Fort Belvoir. Col. Penson completed both the Artillery and Adjutant General Corps Advanced Courses, and Regular Courses, Command and General Staff College and the Armed Forces Staff College. His awards include the Bronze Star Medal, the Legion of Merit and the Combat Infantryman's Badge. Retiring from active duty as a Regular Army Colonel in 1971 after serving over thirty years, he subsequently served six years on the staff of Army Emergency Relief, a non-profit organization whose mission is to assist financially Army Personnel in emergency situations. Col. Penson is survived by his daughter, Barbara Drake of Annandale, Virginia; his son, David S. Penson of Fairfax, Virginia; his brother, John G. Penson of Dallas, Texas; five grandchildren and five great grandchildren. OB6 Obituaries, Notices

Dallas Morning News, The (TX) - January 4, 2008

Deceased Name: DYCKMAN , STEWARTDied peacefully in his 98th year.

DYCKMAN, STEWARTDied peacefully in his 98th year. He was predeceased by his wife, "Timmie" Winifred and his grandson, Peter Machida. He is survived by his son, Alan Dyckman of Seattle; daughters: Dr. Helen (Norm) Machida of Calgary; Anne (Ron) Cudmore of Ireland; and Claire Dyckman of Seattle. He will also be missed by his sister, Frances Newsome of Dallas and his grandchildren: Rob and Heather Machida, Kris and Mark Cudmore, and Chantae Dyckman. Born in Dallas to a Canadian mother and American father, Stewart had fond memories of a Texas childhood with summers in Ontario, four years at Harvard, a bachelor decade in New York City, where he met his wife Timmie, and some years in Dallas before moving to Calgary, Alberta, Canada with his young family in 1952. He was a graduate of Highland Park High School. His passions were family, family travel and camping, farming, hunting, fishing, dancing, and creative discourse or "snip" with his grandkids. He trained in the U.S. Calvary and served as a Lieutenant Commander in the US Navy in the Pacific. His business career included Chase Manhattan Bank, the Republic National Bank of Dallas, Proctor and Gamble, and almost thirty years with Norcen in Calgary. Stewart loved teaching Sunday School in Calgary and in Seattle; sponsored several families to the US and Canada; and visited the elderly during his retirement years in Seattle. He felt most thankful for a very full life. In lieu of flowers memorial donations may be made directly to the charity of your choice. A Celebration of Stewarts life will be held on Saturday, January 5, 2008 at 12:00 pm at Sparkman/Hillcrest Northwest Highway Chapel., Dignity Memorial Sparkman Hillcrest 7405 W. Northwest Hwy. Dallas (214) 363-5401 OB6 Obituaries, Notices

Fort Worth Star-Telegram (TX) - May 18, 2009

Deceased Name: Mary Elizabeth Penson

ARLINGTON -- Mary Elizabeth Penson passed away Saturday, May 16, 2009, at the age of 91.

Service: 4 p.m. Tuesday at First Jefferson Unitarian Universalist Church in Fort Worth.

Mrs. Penson was born Sept. 14, 1917, in Riverside, Ill.

Mrs. Penson taught high school English and creative writing in De Kalb, Ill., for 17 years before retiring and moving to Texas with her husband, Jack, who preceded her in death in 1987. An avid writer and author of children's books, she was an active member of the Society of Children's Books Writers and Illustrators as well as the American Association of University Women.

Noted author and former student, Richard Powers, wrote of her: "She was a consummate teacher, teaching by shrewd trust and vibrant example, and the chief thing that she taught me, year after year, in countless ways, is how good a thing life is, despite everything."

Survivors: Mrs. Penson is survived by her children, John Penson of College Station, Bonnie Genung of Dallas, Marjorie Anderson of Arlington and James Penson of Arlington; eight grandchildren; and one great-grandchild.

Moore Funeral Home-N. Davis Drive

Arlington, 817-275-2711

View and sign guestbook at


Star-Ledger, The (Newark, NJ) - April 28, 2011

Deceased Name: Robert A. Dyckman

President and CEO of Holmes Protection, Inc., 82


Robert A. Dyckman, 82, died Tuesday, April 26, 2011, at Ashbrook Nursing Home in Scotch Plains, N.J., after a lengthy illness.

The funeral will be from Memorial Funeral Home, 155 South Ave., Fanwood, N.J., on Saturday at 10 a.m. followed by a Funeral Mass at Immaculate Heart of Mary R.C. Church, Martine Avenue, Scotch Plains, at 11 a.m. Cremation will be private. Visitation will be at the funeral home on Friday from 6 to 9 p.m. For additional information or to express condolences, please visit www.fanwoodmemorial.com.

Born in Ossining, N.Y., Mr. Dyckman lived in East Windsor, N.J., and Southwest, Fla., for many years before moving to the Chelsea in Fanwood, N.J., in 2005.

Mr. Dyckman was a veteran, having served in the 43rd infantry division of the U.S. Army.

Prior to retirement he was president and chief executive officer of Holmes Protection, Inc., a national protective security corporation with headquarters in New York City.

He was a member of the Philadelphia and New York City Rotary clubs; a director of the Pittsburgh Fire Protection Co.; a vice president and director of the New York Westside Association; a member of the Sales Executive Club; the International Police Chiefs Association; the National Law Enforcement Association, and the Knights of Columbus.

He was predeceased by his wife, Patricia A. Dyckman. Surviving are his four sons, Mark and his wife, Becky, of Chicago, Ill., Robert and his wife, Susan, of Fanwood, N.J., Matthew and his wife, Kirsten Madison, of Alexandria, Va., and William of Naples, Fla. Also surviving are his three grandchildren, Megan, Kelly, and Bobby.

In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to New Eyes for the Needy (www.neweyesfortheneedy.org).

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After a couple of decades of researching the JFK assassination, I am personally of the belief that Robert E. Webster was the Mexico City mystery man. I cannot prove it, and according to the documents he was still in the Soviet Union, not to return to the United States until January 1964. So like a lot of topics, consensus, does not even enter the equation; it is just my opinion. But I suppose I am fortunate, I don't have enough of a reputation to tarnish in the first place......lol

If there is any interest see CD 340 and the oswaldsmother.blogspot, which has one of the few photos of

Webster on the net. I don't know whom runs the website, but I have to think they are good, at today's first glance


Edited by Robert Howard

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Oh hell Lee, don't sell yourself short, they're more than interesting. I have been following them with considerable interest, Pugibet.... the guy is definitely a 'cog in the old wheel,' to say the least. The Stoneleigh Hotel is also more than just the usual, it's just that for me all you can glean is that it was 'a popular place for JFK related figures to meet'.....maybe I am missing something.

The Sheraton Hotel is another, Oswald is seen with D. A. Phillips there as Veciana is entering.....would make a nice scene in a movie.

Getting back to Pugibet....

The question I keep asking myself is did Pugibet have a connection with Jean Souetre, or any of that crowd?

One wonders....

I don't know if you're interested but here is an article that describes the untimely demise of some of the players from that whole era, I was going to post it on the Pugibet thread, but what the heck.....

Regarding Robert E. Webster, I just think he is the perfect candidate, his description is roughly the same, and since he was one of the core group of defectors [Webster, Oswald, Sloboda, Dutkanicz, Ricciardelli] he would have been vulnerable to being blackmailed, as Oswald also was into doing something he might be reluctant to do. In Oswald's case, and this is just for the sake of argument, he could have been blackmailed by Hosty into informing for the FBI, by threatening to make "visits to your place of employment," as the proverbial hammer.

Webster could have, if I am correct, not even known why he was being asked to go to the Embassy and say "I am trying to go to obtain a visa"...but in overall response to your question, it is just my opinion, and I cannot offer a laundry list of proof, it is more of a hunch.

October 29, 1972

World Drug Ring Reported Cracked

PARIS (UPI) - President Nixon’s top narcotics agent,

Nelson Gross, said Saturday police around the world

have smashed a multi-million dollar drugs network

called the “Latin American connection,” which supplied

almost a third of the U.S. heroin consumption.

He said the previously un-announced crackdown,

which involved the killing of a top leader, had

resulted in a dramatic shortage of heroin on the

American eastern seaboard and a steep rise in the price

of narcotics.

“The conspiracy accounted for almost a third of

the annual U.S. consumption of heroin,” Gross said.

“By breaking this underworld ring, police have dealt

the Latin-American connection a deadly blow from

which it might never recover.”

Gross, who is senior adviser and coordinator for

international narcotics matters in the United States

told newsmen the connection started in Marseille

in Southern France.

Drugs were ferried from there by plane, boat and auto

to South America, where they were moved across the

Mexican border into the United States.

“This was a cooperative effort involving the French and

American police and anti-narcotics agencies from other

countries,” Gross said.

He said he called on Interior Minister Raymond Marcellin

Friday to convey the American Government’s thanks for

France’s part in smashing the network.

Describing the police crackdown “as a story that has not been

told before.” Gross said it involved the killing of one top

smuggler, the arrests of the alleged ringleader and six of his

chief aides and the detention of 32 lower rank traffickers.

He said this action followed:

Paul Karamian was extradited to the United States where he is

awaiting trial.

Lucian Sarti, wanted in France on murder charges, was killed

in a shootout with police in Mexico

Jean Paul Angeletti, also wanted in France on murder

charges, was extradited to France where he is wanted on

murder charges.

Renzo Rogai, wanted by Italian police was extradited

to Italy.

Joseph Sereni was arrested in Venezuela with 35

pounds of heroin.

Frances Chiapi, an alleged murderer and 32 traffickers

were arrested in Argentina and 99 pounds of heroin


Christian David, wanted in France on murder

charges was arrested in Rio de Janeiro, when 60 kilos

of heroin were found in a boat.

On Aug, 8, August Ricord, alleged leader of the

network, was arrested in Paraguay and extradited to

New York, where he is in jail.

(Antoni Guerini another Marseille mob figure, had died in 1967]

Years later, Nelson Gross himself would have a brush with destiny not terribly unlike the persons he was speaking of in the above press release, as his obituary clearly shows......


South Florida Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale, FL) - September 27, 1997

A generation ago, Nelson Gross reigned as a bold power broker and crafty political strategist in New Jersey's Republican Party. He helped steer the 1968 presidential nomination to Richard Nixon and a year later managed William Cahill's successful campaign for governor. But his political fame and authority fell as rapidly as they had soared. In 1974, Mr. Gross was convicted on federal charges relating to campaign financing and served six months in prison He then abandoned politics, retreating to his native Bergen County and living far from the spotlight. He managed a small real estate business and operated the Binghamton Ferryboat, a riverfront restaurant in Edgewater, N.J., on an old Hudson River ferryboat that he and a friend, James Demetrakis, converted in 1975. Last Wednesday morning, Mr. Gross vanished after withdrawing $20,000 from a bank near the restaurant and his law office. He was last seen driving with two men in his 1990 grey BMW sedan. His body was found on Wednesday on the east bank of the Hudson River. For the past 20 years, Mr. Gross saw little of old political friends as he and his wife, Noel, lived quietly and comfortably in homes in Saddle River, N.J.; Bridgehampton, N.Y., and Palm Beach. He maintained an athlete's trim, which dated from his teen-age days as an all-county tackle on Teaneck High School's football team, by jogging regularly and playing golf. Golfing friends say he belonged to the Atlantic Golf Club in Bridgehampton and to the Medalist Golf Club in Hobe Sound. Days before he vanished, acquaintances said, Mr. Gross had returned in good spirits from a golfing vacation in Scotland. Although Mr. Gross had long forsaken politics, Noel Gross remained active in the party. She is now chairwoman of the New Jersey Racing Commission. Nelson Gerard Gross was born on Jan. 9, 1932, and grew up in Bergen County, his eventual political power base. After graduating from Yale University and Columbia Law School, he joined the Englewood law firm run by his father, Albert. He served briefly as an assistant U.S. attorney and quickly became active in Bergen County's Republican Party as a protege of the county chairman, Walter Jones. He was elected to a term in the state Assembly in 1961 at age 29 and five years later engineered a coup to replace Jones. Mr. Gross, strong-willed and disciplined, quickly built himself into a force in the state Republican Party. In addition to his wife, he is survived by a son, Neil, of Saddle River; his father, Albert, of West Palm Beach, and two brothers, Paul and Michael, both of Hillsdale, N.J.

Ahh, the Nixon Administration......those were the good old days, eh.....

Edited by Robert Howard

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Yeah, I have a thing or two to add but the reason I wanted to make another post is that I need to make a correction to the date Webster returned to the United States; Amidst all of the materials I was looking at today probably in a book, I had read Webster returned to the United States in January 1964.

That would be incorrect.

Some researchers may be familiar with the Washington Post Saturday June 9, 1962 issue with the headline:



below is an excerpt....

Oswald is the third American in less than two months to return home after planning to settle in the Soviet Union. Robert E. Webster of Zelienople, Pa., who gave up his citizenship, left for the United States as an immigrant last month. David Johnson, a Philadelphia railroad worker, and his wife and twin sons returned after becoming disillusioned in one week with the Soviet Union.

Hey, if Webster is my candidate for the Oswald impostor, I have to correct the impression he was in the USSR in early October 1963, [Mexico City] especially if he wasn't. There were five defectors, mentioned in my earlier post......Two of them had a connection to service in the military in Germany. Sloboda and Dutkanicz. Specifically, they were both in Army Intelligence, both had defected within days of each other, and both had been recruited by the KGB before their defections.

See pgs. 184-186 Oswald and The CIA - John Newman.

I think in the threads about CUSA and General Walker National Zietung, et cetera the aforementioned usually is not mentioned.

Just in case anyone is keeping track.... :)

Edited by Robert Howard

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I am normally very reticent about making claims these days, which is why anyone that knows me, knows how unusual it is for me to go out on a limb and say I believe Robert E. Webster is the person who was impersonating Oswald in Mexico City.

This was not some spur of the moment type of decision, but I still admit the possibility I could be wrong.

At any rate, below is just, what got me started.

I will continue after the document below, which I do not believe is exactly a well known Warren Commission document.

Commission Document 340 - FBI Gazur Report of 21 Jan 1964 re: JFK Assassination Oswald/Robert E. Webster

ROBERT EDWARD WEBSTER, a United States citizen who defected to the U.S.S.R. during the Fall of 1959 and who eventually returned to the United States as an immigrant, 5/62 on 1/17/64, advised he had no contact whatsoever with LEE HARVEY OSWALD although while in U.S.S.R. heard during late 1959 that OSWALD defected to the U.S.S.R.


January 21 1964 Mr ROBERT EDWARD WEBSTER Room 11 In-City Motel, Main Street, Wellsville, Ohio advised he had no contact whatsoever with LEE HARVEY OSWALD. He stated his only knowledge of OSWALD was limited to his having overheard conversation between two Americans mentioning Oswald at the American National Exhibit in Russia during the latter months of 1959, to the effect that OSWALD had defected from the United States to live in Russia. Webster said he could not recall the identities of the persons who were involved in that conversation. He said OSWALD’s name was never mentioned to him by anyone in the U.S.S.R., or in the United States.

WEBSTER stated that after his defection from the United States during the Fall of 1959, he lived common-law with VERA IVANOVNA PLATONOVA at Kondratievski, Prospect, House #63 Apartment 18, Leningrad, K-197, U.S.S.R., and was employed as a plastics technician by the Soviet Government at the Plastics Institute of Leningrad, where he earned approximately $270 per month (the equivalent to as scientists pay in the U.S.S.R.) until he decided to return to the United States.

WEBSTER stated that on August 18, 1960, a baby girl was born from his aforementioned common-law relationship, and he later adopted this child which was named SVETLANA ROBERTOVNA VEBSTER. He said he occasionally sends money to the U.S.S.R. for the support of this child and occasionally receives a letter from the mother of this child who continues to reside in the Soviet Union.

He explained that during 1960, a letter written by his father convinced him that he should return to the United States and face his responsibilities. He added his mother at that time suffered a nervous breakdown over his defection to Russia. He said he first applied for permission to leave Russia about August of 1960 and was advised in October of 1960 that such had been refused. He re-applied for permission to leave during October 1961, and received notification that such had been approved in March 1962. He said that it took the United States Government a couple of months to grant him a visa to enter the United States as an immigrant. He advised he plans to become a naturalized United States citizen after the expiration of a waiting period which will conclude about 1967. WEBSTER stated that upon re-entering the United States in May 1962 he had been employed by the Luger Boat Company, Minneapolis, Minnesota for about one month as a foreman and then came to Wellsville, Ohio where he has been employed for approximately one year by Wesco Manufacturing Company as a plastics technician.

Webster stated that since he left the U.S.S.R., he has had no contact with any official of the U.S.S.R., and no pressure of any type had ever been exerted on him by VERA PLATONOVA to cause him to commit any act on behalf of the U.S.S.R

Webster advised he is 35 years of age and appeared to be approximately 5’7,” 145 lbs., blond hair, blue eyes and of fair complexion and medium build.


That, is actually just the beginning, in a manner of speaking. Refreshing memories, it is a fact that Marina Oswald one referred to her husband as once working for the RAND Corporation, when in fact, it was Robert E. Webster who had worked for RAND.

It is also a fact that Marina ostensibly met Robert E. Webster before she met Lee Oswald, it is also a fact that

a notation in Robert E. Webster's files has an odd EE designation, whereas none of the other defectors, there were twelve in that general time frame, five were mentioned previously on this thread, had that designation, although it may be in reference to his immigration status.

The document below, although just an excerpt is also noteworthy, along the same lines.



Found in: Miscellaneous CIA Series

4. For the October 1978 HSCA request the following was done.

- - the files of three radio plants in Minsk were searched again for 00 reports from a US re-defctor; no hits.

--the Minsk Town Folder was searched for a similar document no hits

--the biographic files were searched for information on Robert E Webster there was one hit (in the

Consolidated File under R.E. VEBSTR) - - an FBIS article (from the U.S.S.R Daily Report of

26 May 1960 pages BB 29-31) on a speech by Webster then a USSR citizen working in the

Leningrad Polymerization Institute.

RIF#: 104-10302-10003 (10/17/78) CIA#: CIA-DI-FILES

It is difficult sometimes to keep all of the KGB/CIA intelligence and counterintelligence intrigues from that time period in mind and having to keep that in the back of your mind while remembering everything else.....But I think this is beyond important, even if there are a lot of skeptics about this particular ID I have settled on.....

Edited by Robert Howard

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I think we all know how it's confusing in Mexico City - was Oswald in the consulates, or was he impersonated?

I noticed a piece of evidence that may make the analysis easier. Could we kick this one around?

If Jack Childs/SOLO was telling the truth...a big if...about Fidel being told after 11/22 that Oswald came into the Cuban

embassy and on his way out shouted, "I'm going to kill Kennedy", that would explain a lot. Because the Oswald

character would have been told "you're in the wrong place - go to the consulate".

Castro said that when Oswald "stalked in and walked in and ran out that it itself was a suspicious movement, because nobody comes to

an Embassy for a visa (they go to a Consulate)." See Hosty's book at 277, or to the second document below.

There's support from a surprising quarter. Teresa Proenza, the cultural attache, also reported being approached by Oswald in the embassy, and passed him on to someone higher in rank - that certainly wasn't Duran, who was lower in rank and worked in the consulate.

Here's the very first document, a 6/11/64 26-page SOLO report that is constantly referenced...

http://vault.fbi.gov...part-60-of/view (p. 86 is the page about LHO, 19 of 26)

written by ACB of the NY field office to the Director, starting at page 68.

"(Castro) said Oswald was involved. Our people in Mexico gave us the details in a full report

of how he acted when he came to Mexico to their embassy. He said first of all nobody goes

that way for a visa. Second, it cost money to go that distance. He stormed into the embassy,

demanded the visa and when it was refused to him headed out saying I'm going to kill Kennedy

for this."

Now here's the second document, on the next day, 6/12/64. This follow-up is from JDO at the

NY field office to the Director, where Childs is quizzed at great length about anything else

he might know about Oswald in Mexico City. Hosty has a copy of it in his book at 276-278, the

FBI website has it at http://vault.fbi.gov...rt-59-of-1/view (pp 58-59) This makes it clear

that the man called Oswald visited the Cuban Embassy - not the Consulate!

"I was told this by my people in the Embassy - exactly how he (OSWALD) stalked in and walked in and

ran out. That in itself was a suspicious movement, because nobody comes to an Embassy for a visa (they go to a Consulate.)"

"The informant stated that the implication was that Oswald came running in like a "mad man" demanding a visa and immediately the

people in the Embassy suspected that something wrong - why go to the Soviet Union through Cuba?"

"he yelled on his way out "I'm going to kill that bastard. I'm going to kill Kennedy".

"(Jack Childs) was of the opinion that the Cuban Embassy people must have told Oswald something to the effect that they were sorry

that they did not let Americans into Cuba because the US government stopped Cuba from letting them in and that is when Oswald

shouted out the statement about killing Kennedy."

By the way, Beatrice Johnson (the CPUSA liaison to the Cuban Communist Party) and and Fidel's physician and aide Rene Vallejo were with Castro and Childs in the conversation. According to Sylvia Duran - although she never referred to her by name - Beatrice Johnson was someone Oswald should have contacted if he was serious about wanting to go to Cuba. AS Beatrice Johnson was the CPUSA liaison to the Cuban Communist Party, working with those two parties were

the way Sylvia told LHO that most people from the USA use to go to Cuba.

Here's the third document, a memo from Baumgartner to Sullivan on 6/12/64. Note how the story wobbles:

"Castro reportedly stated, 'our people gave us the details in a full report of how he (Oswald) acted when he came to Mexico to their

embassy (uncertain whether he means Cuban or Russian embassy)."

The fourth document, Hoover's famous memo to Rankin on 6/17/64, scrubs away

1) any reference to the Cuban consulate, or

2)"my people" at the Embassy,

3) the man called Oswald running in "like a mad man", or

4) the people in the embassy suspecting something was wrong, or

5) the man calling JFK a "bastard".

In short, it erases Fidel's astonishment that Oswald went to the embassy instead of the consulate.

The FBI and CIA chiefs weren't about to let Rankin know all that.

It sounds like this was an entirely separate incident than the three incidents that Duran had with "Oswald" at the consulate. This is a fourth incident, with "Oswald" at the Cuban Embassy.

This could have even involved Claude Capehart (or whoever the blond man was) at the embassy on September 26. The CIA got two quick photos of this guy as he rushed in and out of the embassy at 1:30.

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4476&relPageId=2 (the 1:30 visit)

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=4476&relPageId=3 (see photos 23 and 24)

This 9/26 event had nothing to do with Duran or Azcue.

Or the embassy visit could have been an event after LHO's three visits to the Cuban Consulate on Sept 27.

The photos of the Cuban embassy during Oswald's stay were ordered by the HSCA right after Fidel's testimony on April 3.


What do you think?

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Due to time constraints, I can't post the new material I have, but will later this weekend, but I wanted to give a heads-up to others who are interested in this thread that the new post didn't go unnoticed on my part. I do suggest to Bill Simpich that he look into documents pertaining to Mexico City ie Soviet Embassy, regarding Elmer N. Lindsey on June 24-25, 1963 there........

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Yes, my thinking is informed in part by Arnaldo Fernandez's article at the CTKA site, which is excellent. His focus is

to prove wrong Brian Latell's thesis that Castro knew in advance that JFK was to be assassinated and refrained from giving the US

government any warning.

In both the CTKA article and an earlier Miami Herald article, Fernandez illustrates that even if you rely on the Childs documents, Latell's claim that Castro knew about the assassination in advance can be easily proven as untrue. Latell relies on the second of the two FBI interviews with Childs, saying that this shows that Castro knew in advance. Fernandez points out that a careful review of the memo reveals that it says on its face that Fidel did not learn about the supposed Oswald visit to the Cuban Embassy until "embassy personnel, who dealt with Oswald...apparently had made a full, detailed report to Castro after President Kennedy was assassinated.” To see the document, look at http://vault.fbi.gov...rt-59-of-1/view (pp 58-59)

Fernandez cites the best arguments why the Childs documents may not be kosher:

"As Newman writes, the problem with the Childs Report as issued to Hoover is that there is no specificity in it: Who were the diplomats who heard this threat? On what day was it made? How was it communicated from Mexico City to Havana? And how could the CIA not have known about it with all their audio surveillance installed? (Newman, p. 428) But beyond that, in a private interview Newman gave to Jim DiEugenio in San Francisco, the former intelligence analyst showed him the actual Childs report as given to Hoover. Newman told DiEugenio that, because he had seen hundreds of such informant reports, he could tell by the formatting that it was a forgery."

All those are good questions, and I have the greatest respect for the work of both Newman and Fernandez. But on the central question of whether or not the Childs documents are forged, it would be quite a lot of work for anyone to pull off. See the first two of the four documents in my previous post, which are the original reports made by Childs to the New York FBI office - I can't see any formatting differences.

Furthermore, even if the two New York documents were both forged, there are still documents three and four in my previous post to explain - the Baumgartner-Sullivan and Hoover-Rankin correspondence, both of which refer to Childs' reported threat by Oswald to kill Kennedy. I will seek out John Newman and discuss this with him directly.

As mentioned in my previous post, there is also a fifth document that calls out for analysis. That is the report of conversation of Betty Mora - which is hearsay, like the Childs story. I should add that Mora's story came from two Mexican informants, and Childs was a highly trusted informant whose material traditionally went directly to the President himself. Mora's story was that cultural attache Teresa Proenza met Oswald at the Embassy and turned him over to a supervisor because she didn't speak English.

This is why I'm encouraging discussion - I wasn't convinced that the Childs story held up at first, but these five documents need to be addressed.

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The usual assumption is that the first Oswald sighting happened on Friday, Sept. 27, shortly after his bus arrived in Mexico City. However...

A HSCA chronology I came across states that Azcue met a blond man in a light blue "Prince of Wales" suit at the Cuban Embassy on Thursday, Sept. 26, at about 1 pm.

Photos 23 and 24 depict a man leaving the embassy for the consulate at 1:30 pm. One of these photos matches the photo circulated by the HSCA, which they obtained ten days after Azcue testified. Can you tell what kind of suit he's wearing? (I can't.)

Some have identified this blond man as Claude Capehart - who may have also been known as George Damon - a known impersonator of both CIA agents and Cuban exiles- which was taken at Sept 26 at about 1:30 pm according to the CIA log.

There's a picture of this man because he went to the embassy before he was sent to the consulate. The embassy cameras worked, but the cameras aimed at the Cuban consulate were not functional until Sept 27 at the very earliest.

There is some support in the record for a visit by a man named Oswald on Sept. 26. A note on this HSCA chrono looks like it's drawn from a statement from Azcue himself. The staff reminds Azcue during his public testimony that in a previous interview he told them that he thought that he met Oswald one or more days before the Sept 27 visa application. Azcue admits that it's possible.

These notes also indicate that Azcue stated in his interview before his public testimony that Oswald visited "the day before the application was signed". Again, as the application was signed on Sept 27, that would mean that Azcue saw Oswald for the first time on Sept 26. The notetaker admits that it's possible an Oswald impersonator might have visited before Oswald actually arrived - although doubting it because it would be bad tradecraft. The interview was on 4/1/78, does anyone have a copy?




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RECORD NUMBER : 180-10117-10118






TO : [No To]


DATE : 04/01/1978

PAGES : 17









DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/14/1993

COMMENTS : English translation in folder 1 of 4. Includes two (2)

copies in Spanish. Box 289.


Well, it seems pretty apparent that according to the layout presented at NARA Azcue's testimony was [at one time?]

document wise, split into 4 segments. I run across changed RIF numbers and titles all the time. I have looked

for the testimony in question, and am at a loss for why it is so hard to find, unless the 4/1/78 date is not actually

the case, which seems doubtful.

The only other thing I can think of is that the CIA definitely had an interest in recruiting Senor Azcue even before the assassination....see

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm)/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (microfilm - reel 2: Artime - Barker)/

NARA Record Number: 104-10163-10014



Seems odd his deposition testimony for 4/1/78 is so hard to find.

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Robert, thank you for posting this. I'll order a copy from the archives. MFF did a great job copying from the archives, I think they copied the most important 20% of the documents, which is a lot. For whatever reason they have only a few of "the numbered files" from the HSCA.

I've written a lot on the attempt to recruit Azcue in 63. Maybe I should post some of it in a new thread on the forum.


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The usual assumption is that the first Oswald sighting happened on Friday, Sept. 27, shortly after his bus arrived in Mexico City. However...

A HSCA chronology I came across states that Azcue met a blond man in a light blue "Prince of Wales" suit at the Cuban Embassy on Thursday, Sept. 26, at about 1 pm.

Photos 23 and 24 depict a man leaving the embassy for the consulate at 1:30 pm. One of these photos matches the photo circulated by the HSCA, which they obtained ten days after Azcue testified. Can you tell what kind of suit he's wearing? (I can't.)

Some have identified this blond man as Claude Capehart - who may have also been known as George Damon - a known impersonator of both CIA agents and Cuban exiles- which was taken at Sept 26 at about 1:30 pm according to the CIA log.

There's a picture of this man because he went to the embassy before he was sent to the consulate. The embassy cameras worked, but the cameras aimed at the Cuban consulate were not functional until Sept 27 at the very earliest.

There is some support in the record for a visit by a man named Oswald on Sept. 26. A note on this HSCA chrono looks like it's drawn from a statement from Azcue himself. The staff reminds Azcue during his public testimony that in a previous interview he told them that he thought that he met Oswald one or more days before the Sept 27 visa application. Azcue admits that it's possible.

These notes also indicate that Azcue stated in his interview before his public testimony that Oswald visited "the day before the application was signed". Again, as the application was signed on Sept 27, that would mean that Azcue saw Oswald for the first time on Sept 26. The notetaker admits that it's possible an Oswald impersonator might have visited before Oswald actually arrived - although doubting it because it would be bad tradecraft. The interview was on 4/1/78, does anyone have a copy?

I think the gaunt-looking "chinless wonder" guy in the top two photos could be wearing the Prince of Wales suit, but not the so-called "Claude Capeheart" guy in the bottom two photos (who appears not to even be wearing a suit).


The guy in the top photos also looks like he is very thin and has sunken cheeks and an aquiline nose, as described in the document. https://www.maryferr...312&relPageId=2

Question: How tall was Capeheart? Sylvia Duran said the Oswald character she dealt with was about the same height as she was, i.e. "160 to 162 cm" (5' 3" to 5' 3.75") http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/HSCA/DURAN.TXT

--Tommy :sun


Edited by Thomas Graves

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This is not a complete document, but I did go to the trouble of including some rather pertinent data.

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 40/

NARA Record Number: 104-10110-10377



Birth: 15 Ocotber 1924, Omeka, Oklahoma

Marital Status: Robert Mary Nee: BALTEY b. 2 Dec

1922, Winsboro, La.; Address: Same as Subject.

Parents: Capehart, Henry Hayes b. 15 Oct 1876, Stamps,

Arkansas; Deceased.

Capehart, Laura Jefferson; Nee: GARBROUGH;

b. 1 April, 1873, Memphis Tennessee; Deceased

Children: Capehart, Neal Henry; b. 11 Aug. 1953 Bakersfield,

California; Add: Box 7011 Reno, Nev.

Military: September 43-July 46, U.S. Army Sergeant # 39145469

Claude Barnes Capehart aka Claude Buster Capehart

Social Security 566-22-5896

Date Added: June 1973

I believe there is a photo of someone in front of the TSBD who looks like Claude Capehart. I have been unable to find it, but if I recall, it bears a resemblance to these embassy photos. Anyone have a copy of that photo and can post it? This Capehart thread is interesting and Jim D did a story on Claude Capehart in his publication Probe V4 #1 entitled "The Capehart Caper"

I couldn't upload the Jim Murray photo but here's link to it on Robin Unger's great website:



Hi Thomas,

I missed this earlier, for whatever reason, but the above link is dead -- is this the photo?:


This picture was snapped right after the assassination in front of the TSBD. The guy on the left walking thru looks familiar.

He looks like this man at the Cuban Embassy:


What do you think? cool.gif

-- Zach


Unfortunately your images didn't "take".



Well, it's been two years later now, and I see that your photos have "taken."

Yes, that upper photo is the one I was referring to. IMHO, the blond haired guy on the far left of the upper photo does strongly resemble the blond haired guy photographed at the Cuban Embassy / Cuban Consulate in Mexico City on October 26, 1963 (your lower photo).

I don't know what to make of Sylvia Duran's description of the Oswald character she dealt with at the Cuban Embassy / Cuban Consulate on October 27th, 1963. She said he was blond, blue or green-eyed, skinny, and short. She said he was the about the same height as she was, "160 to 162 cm" (5' 3" to 5' 3 3/4").


I wonder how tall Claude Capehart was?

Here's a William Allen photo showing the "Claude Capehart" figure (I think) on the far left, behind the big guy with the stick. Does "Capehart" have something in his right hand? An umbrella?


edited and bumped

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Hey Tommy,

Thanks for reviving this classic thread. Glad you got to see the images.

One thing to remember about Duran is that she has a 'soft file' with the Agency, so I don't put much stock into the specifics of her testimony.

George Damon aka Claude Barnes Capehart was around 6'1".

Great find on the image; I've never noticed that before. I don't think he matches TUM's description we see in the images, but very interesting nonetheless. Nice work.


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