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John Dolva

A joyful and prosperous Christ Mass to all.

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A very precious Christmas to all. To all friends and enemies, to the deathrow prisoner, to the princess, to the hobo, to the lone buddha, to the dictator, to the serial killer, to the ordinary, to the extraordinary, to the muslim, to the jew, to the atheist, to all gods children.

Jesus died for all of our sins.

Those who CHOOSE to believe in him will have everlasting life.

He loves all. There is no shadow to his turning. The recognition of him as your superior is the beginning of an irrevocable translation into his kingdom which is not of this earth yet is in your heart forever. He need not love you more, you only have to acknowledge his love for you. He has always loved you. He has never stopped loving you and he never will. He sets you free according to the best of human traditions. Your future is your choice. Let him drive. He's good, in fact perfect, but will always let you drive the moment you ask for or make a move to take the wheel. He gives you total freedom and offers total protection.

This is the opiate of the people, and it does not deny altruism. It makes each of us responsible for each other. There is no greater love than to recognise his supreme qualities and to emulate them. There is no greater tribute than a conscious attempt to walk in hs footsteps, truly, as he did. In his essence.

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(Seeing as there is no Religion Forum Subject) : in the same spirit : a wish for a great New Year for one and all, outernationally.

May the new year be blessed with peace, reconciliation and redemption.

Redemption song

Old pirates, yes, they rob I;

Sold I to the merchant ships,

Minutes after they took I

From the bottomless pit.

But my hand was made strong

By the hand of the Almighty.

We forward in this generation

Triumphantly

.

Won't you help to sing

These songs of freedom

'Cause all I ever have:

Redemption songs;

Redemption songs.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;

None but ourselves can free our minds.

Have no fear for atomic energy,

'Cause none of them can stop the time.

How long shall they kill our prophets,

While we stand aside and look? Ooh!

Some say it's just a part of it:

We've got to fullfil the book.

Won't you help to sing

These songs of freedom-

'Cause all I ever have:

Redemption songs;

Redemption songs;

Redemption songs.

---

/Guitar break/

---

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;

None but ourselves can free our mind.

Wo! Have no fear for atomic energy,

'Cause none of them-a can-a stop-a the time.

How long shall they kill our prophets,

While we stand aside and look?

Yes, some say it's just a part of it:

We've got to fullfil the book.

Won't you help to sing

These songs of freedom? -

'Cause all I ever had:

Redemption songs -

All I ever had:

Redemption songs:

These songs of freedom,

Songs of freedom.

ROBERT NESTA MARLEY (R.I.P)

(Burned so bright, died too young.)

JAH Rule's OK!

Edited by John Dolva

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Until the life of the terrorist is held to be as precious as the life of the terrorized, the terror will continue.

Blessings to you, John.

Charles Drago

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Charles D. : "Until the life of the terrorist is held to be as precious as the life of the terrorized, the terror will continue."

Bless you, Charles.

(As usual, you catch and eloquently and simply express: the Heart of the matter.)

___________

(as I understand it)

LOVE, not the sentimental jealousy ridden possessive kind, but that of a parent for a wayward child. Altruism.

Water on the fire. Not petrol.

As Sinead O'Connor (crew cut cause she really IS is so physically beautiful and want people to see her, not her exterior, quoting Robbie (Rasta Dreadlocks), introduced by Kris Kristofferson at tribute to Bob ( 'my religions are a'changin' ' (why not?)) Zimmermann:

Until...

"...Until the philosophy which hold one race superior

And another

Inferior

Is finally

And permanently

Discredited

And abandoned -

Everywhere is war -

Me say war.

That until there no longer

First class and second class citizens of any nation

Until the colour of a man's skin

Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes -

Me say war.

That until the basic human rights

Are equally guaranteed to all,

Without regard to race -

This a war.

That until that day

The dream of lasting peace,

World citizenship

Rule of international morality

Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued,

But never attained -

Now everywhere is war - war...."

( http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/sinead.jpg )

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Seeing as a point made in another topic was clearly understood (thank you) and this elaboration touches on the spiritual it's probably better off here. (Buzz, good on you, being allergic to alcohol myself, (ie a pisshead) and finally over the last few years realising the only solution is to not touch the stuff and finding myself not missing it. my sympathies and congratulations for working to a solution)

Part of the following sounds as if I know what I'm talking about, however, it's more of having had a taste and thus coming to a knowing of sorts.

Ram Das (part of the 60's crowd) found a reputed Enlightened (ie the conscious had grown to encompass the sub-conscious, IOW a total self realisation or 'seeing things as they truly are') man in northern India who was offered and drank a bottle of LSD, and merely found it 'interesting'.

Jack Cassady and co tried 'growing' by overloading on sensory input, with little success. Others have tried other means. The Kool Aid Acid tests, The Bus, The Merry Pranksters, et.c. which merely provided a glimpse into the possible. However, ultimately dependent on substance use and therefore impermanent.

2500 tears ago, after doing nothing for nine hours, one moonlit May night, Siddhartha re-found or re-understood 'the path', the middle path, moderation, equanimity, equa animus, shalom, (described in the ancient Vedas, but the meaning lost and ritual (by any other name, religion smells just the same), Buddhahood. Permanently. One of the first things he said was 'all is fire', 'all is misery', 'all is pain'. People who asked him what enlightenment is like (the uprooting of the fundamental causes, and ending the replanting of them, or letting their seed fall on barren ground), got no answer beyond 'it is to be Experienced', (What is experienced? : lack of ignorance, the illumination of all that is within the mind body phenomena), and only spoke of the Path (Eightfold Noble Path, The Path Less Travelled) to that experience. People asked him 'is there a god' and (in Pali, his language, different grammar, structure et.c.) would only say 'there is no god' ie. 'the concept of no-god exists'. Otherwise these were not matters he discussed. (It somehow reminds me of a story of a person seeing another carrying a big bundle of firewood tied to the back, and having the perception to see this person was also supremely enlightened and asking what it's like to become enlightened (ie knowing 'self' and 'other' sans tinted glasses). The bundle carrier laid down the bundle, saying nothing. The questioner : "What is it like after becoming elightened?", The bundle carrier, again saying nothing, picked up the bundle and walked on.)

Having sat drugfree, no talking, no doing, for hours over many days, under proper instructions from quaified teachers, I can proclaim : there is a point where all pain reaches a crescendo and then dissolves completely then to a one pointed being here and nowness, at which the illusion of self and solidity, (ie one can see through things that otherwise seem solid which is almost exclusively space anyway) falls away, ie a dip into the river of life without ego, or a momentary raising of ones sight above the illusion that is called reality, is attainable (and worthwhile), Yet, one finds precious few who understand a single word of the description. One basically stops talking about it, or, as Buzz's persona deals with it, gets pissed off and hits out. Perfectly understandable. A-theists, theists, a-gnostics, gnostics, sceptics et.c. et.c. all can come to a universal self knowledge where belief is irrelevant, ie. there is an Ultimate Truth hidden beyond the Un-Believable, a no-mind space, Nibbana, And no explanation or thinking, reasoning, gets one there. However, personally walking the path, not just looking at a map, does. And that is something no-one can do for anyone else. Thus, those who have percieved it realsise the futility of describing it, but can point the way towards it.

Buzz sounds to me like a typical person who has experienced something 'unbelievable' and simply lacks the knowledge to describe it, or repeatedly experiences the frustration of trying to. It doesn't make him a xxxx. It makes him ignorant (in the sense of being intelligent, but lacking in certain knowings) Ditto, others are ignorant (including self), not stupid in the sense of lacking the capacity to think, but lacking in essential knowings and wisdoms through the fullness of Experience. Not vicarious but direct.

Aaauuuummmm..(Om) without breaks, from deepest base to highest top, open, the Gordian knots sliced asunder. The Snake coiled at the base, when the path is aligned, strikes upwards, takes flight, cleansing, healing, and the light of truth shines like a polished mirror reflecting the sun. The ancient sign of healing of the snakes coiled around a sword, locating the 'chakras', the winged mirror.. One dies, becomes a once returner, melds with that which is : the all knowing, everpresent, all powerful godhead.

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Seeing as a point made in another topic was clearly understood (thank you) and this elaboration touches on the spiritual it's probably better off here. (Buzz, good on you, being allergic to alcohol myself, (ie a pisshead) and finally over the last few years realising the only solution is to not touch the stuff and finding myself not missing it. my sympathies and congratulations for working to a solution)

Part of the following sounds as if I know what I'm talking about, however, it's more of having had a taste and thus coming to a knowing of sorts.

Ram Das (part of the 60's crowd) found a reputed Enlightened (ie the conscious had grown to encompass the sub-conscious, IOW a total self realisation or 'seeing things as they truly are') man in northern India who was offered and drank a bottle of LSD, and merely found it 'interesting'.

Jack Cassady and co tried 'growing' by overloading on sensory input, with little success. Others have tried other means. The Kool Aid Acid tests, The Bus, The Merry Pranksters, et.c. which merely provided a glimpse into the possible. However, ultimately dependent on substance use and therefore impermanent.

2500 tears ago, after doing nothing for nine hours, one moonlit May night, Siddhartha re-found or re-understood 'the path', the middle path, moderation, equanimity, equa animus, shalom, (described in the ancient Vedas, but the meaning lost and ritual (by any other name, religion smells just the same), Buddhahood. Permanently. One of the first things he said was 'all is fire', 'all is misery', 'all is pain'. People who asked him what enlightenment is like (the uprooting of the fundamental causes, and ending the replanting of them, or letting their seed fall on barren ground), got no answer beyond 'it is to be Experienced', (What is experienced? : lack of ignorance, the illumination of all that is within the mind body phenomena), and only spoke of the Path (Eightfold Noble Path, The Path Less Travelled) to that experience. People asked him 'is there a god' and (in Pali, his language, different grammar, structure et.c.) would only say 'there is no god' ie. 'the concept of no-god exists'. Otherwise these were not matters he discussed. (It somehow reminds me of a story of a person seeing another carrying a big bundle of firewood tied to the back, and having the perception to see this person was also supremely enlightened and asking what it's like to become enlightened (ie knowing 'self' and 'other' sans tinted glasses). The bundle carrier laid down the bundle, saying nothing. The questioner : "What is it like after becoming elightened?", The bundle carrier, again saying nothing, picked up the bundle and walked on.)

Having sat drugfree, no talking, no doing, for hours over many days, under proper instructions from quaified teachers, I can proclaim : there is a point where all pain reaches a crescendo and then dissolves completely then to a one pointed being here and nowness, at which the illusion of self and solidity, (ie one can see through things that otherwise seem solid which is almost exclusively space anyway) falls away, ie a dip into the river of life without ego, or a momentary raising of ones sight above the illusion that is called reality, is attainable (and worthwhile), Yet, one finds precious few who understand a single word of the description. One basically stops talking about it, or, as Buzz's persona deals with it, gets pissed off and hits out. Perfectly understandable. A-theists, theists, a-gnostics, gnostics, sceptics et.c. et.c. all can come to a universal self knowledge where belief is irrelevant, ie. there is an Ultimate Truth hidden beyond the Un-Believable, a no-mind space, Nibbana, And no explanation or thinking, reasoning, gets one there. However, personally walking the path, not just looking at a map, does. And that is something no-one can do for anyone else. Thus, those who have percieved it realsise the futility of describing it, but can point the way towards it.

Buzz sounds to me like a typical person who has experienced something 'unbelievable' and simply lacks the knowledge to describe it, or repeatedly experiences the frustration of trying to. It doesn't make him a xxxx. It makes him ignorant (in the sense of being intelligent, but lacking in certain knowings) Ditto, others are ignorant (including self), not stupid in the sense of lacking the capacity to think, but lacking in essential knowings and wisdoms through the fullness of Experience. Not vicarious but direct.

Aaauuuummmm..(Om) without breaks, from deepest base to highest top, open, the Gordian knots sliced asunder. The Snake coiled at the base, when the path is aligned, strikes upwards, takes flight, cleansing, healing, and the light of truth shines like a polished mirror reflecting the sun. The ancient sign of healing of the snakes coiled around a sword, locating the 'chakras', the winged mirror.. One dies, becomes a once returner, melds with that which is : the all knowing, everpresent, all powerful godhead.

the choice: into the teeth of eternity one trembling or, into eternity clutched to the warm bosum of ones higher power.....

Edited by David G. Healy

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