Medical Treatment in your country

[John Dolva]

Interesting, John. I wish I had met your wife when you were in Perth so that any well wishing would register if you passed it on. However having expressed my sympathies elsewhere and prayers are never far behind (I know you're an a-theist, but I'm not) I'll leave it at that. Nevertheless the revival of spirit, rallying et.c., albeit under continuing difficult circumstances, is great news.

Judith is also an atheist. My sister was a nurse and she says many people become very religious when they realize they are going to die. Judith was brought up as a staunch Roman Catholic and so I don’t suspect she will change. It takes a lot of psychological and emotional courage to abandon a faith that relies heavily on brainwashing. At the time she lost the approval of her mother, who she idolized. After that, there is no going back.

I don't think god's much into brown-nosing.

I do remember you telling me about your wifes rather horrid religious 'upbringing'. Not surprised she'd recoil from it as a whole. "there is no going back" maybe so, you know her, she does, I don't, still 'never say never' is apt.

The religiosity of persons near death, or even while at burials or sunday church while living it up at other times is indeed a feature of humanity. However, Newton who wrote "Amazing Grace", after turning from slavery and then devoting a life to righting wrongs personifies (IMO) true conversion.

Mind control or brain washing takes many forms from nationalism (hail to the chief, god save the queen et.c.(and her fascist regime (Sid Vicious, "Never mind the Bolloks, We're the Sex Pistols")) to subtler forms through all inputs throughout life, from school and peer pressure, the media, politicians, cops and robbers, parents, and teachers of course.

Every two hours a twin tower full of starving children fall down, yet Moneyed Ones get all the attention. Hypocrisy abounds.

I understand that something like 50 percent of german POW's in Britain put Hitler as their religion, and the other half 'nature'. During the Nuerenberg trials many of those awaiting death sentence reverted to Lutheranism.

Having been born in a Lutheran nation (sweden) I'm aware of the traditional belief that the Pope is Satan personified. Myself, having an ex-nazi as father (who named one of his greatest achievements in later life as pi..ing on the grounds of Hitlers Eagles Nest, suposedly a great insult in that part of the world) and an atheist mother, I never set foot in a church building more than a few times, and some of that in later life was because as a drunkard I found it's a nice quiet place to sip booze. Going from a-theism to 'couldn't care lessism', flirting with 'a-gnosticism', 'trotskyism', then 'buddhism' (even though in truth there is no such thing, it's merely in its true form a technique of meditation, however like christanity it becomes over time something different from the original, it turns into religions and churches (bodies of believers, into buildings and rituals)) and perhaps today into a communist christian, change is a true feature of nature, unlike pigheadedness. In oz I've had a number of ex-catholic-school girlfriends whose teachers would be quite shocked at how they turned out, (not me though. it was a pleasure) in spite of the Catholic dogma 'give me a child for seven years and we'll give you a catholic for life'.

What horrified me more was the pope castigating Liberation Theologians in South America while blessing Rodney King beaters, the 'finest', in the US. Ditto Bush's 'belief' contrasted to his genocidal back and fore ground (Nazi wealth, Mid East slaughters).

Anyway, spirit and revival is different from spiritual revival, which I think you're getting at here.

On topic: There are matters of interest (IM(Humbled)O, (perhaps a rougher undergarment or some scourging is in order)) in your post : a repeated response:

"On a more dispassionate level, your descriptions of the treatment sequences, living wills et.c. opens a lot of cans of worms.

examples:

My elderly mother had a slight localised blood clot in her brain that caused a loss of short term memory. (recovery seems to have been near complete-ed) Added to that her smashed up leg and shoulder from a car accident places her at her age in a precarious position. As there is a shortage of funds, peole like her are 'prioritised'. The fact that pre-accident (a year ago) she was (at 83) part of a troupe of belly/line dancers going around to old people homes showing that age does not equal disability, ie she is physically much younger than the average. However to get that through to the doctors is a problem.

Personally I was misdiagnosed for six odd years as I presented far too late and the doctor (ordinary GP) merely saw the symptoms and prescribed acordingly. In 'the good ole boy' doctor farternity, a doctor rarely questions another, so ignorantly I complied with this diagnosis which followed me around as I moved around. Only recently I've been fortunate to consult a specialist who had the courage to question the diagnosis, shift the class of medication and within 2 weeks remarkable signs of recovery started. So, suffering from side effects from unnecessary medication, one of which at one point led to a suicide attempt, six years later, fatter and older, hope and drive has returned. The specialist suffered from a backlash from the referring non-specialist who stopped sending him cases. However the specialists integrity and courage in the face of this entrenched systemic relationship between doctors + their diagnosis, I believe, will stand him in good stead in the long run.

Had I bindly 'followed doctors advice' and trusted in some kind of 'doctoral infallibility', who knows where one would be today. Which brings on (among others) subjects like living wills, euthanasia, hope and suicide."

Edited January 8, 2008 by John Dolva

[Guest David Guyatt]

I have some appreciation for the difficulties and heartache you are suffering. My thoughts are also with you and your family, John.

David

[John Simkin]

Mind control or brain washing takes many forms from nationalism (hail to the chief, god save the queen et.c.(and her fascist regime (Sid Vicious, "Never mind the Bolloks, We're the Sex Pistols")) to subtler forms through all inputs throughout life, from school and peer pressure, the media, politicians, cops and robbers, parents, and teachers of course.

I agree. Apparently, in the 1930s a large number escaped the Roman Catholic church by joining the Communist Party, then under the control of Stalin. It was said that someone brought up under an authoritarian regime need to replace it with something that has a similar structure.

[John Dolva]

Mind control or brain washing takes many forms from nationalism (hail to the chief, god save the queen et.c.(and her fascist regime (Sid Vicious, "Never mind the Bolloks, We're the Sex Pistols")) to subtler forms through all inputs throughout life, from school and peer pressure, the media, politicians, cops and robbers, parents, and teachers of course.

I agree. Apparently, in the 1930s a large number escaped the Roman Catholic church by joining the Communist Party, then under the control of Stalin. It was said that someone brought up under an authoritarian regime need to replace it with something that has a similar structure.

I wonder if the reverse is also true. Do people brought up in non-authoritarian regimes, when changing, change to some other non-authoritarian structure?

I suspect that some brought up in authoritarian regimes, whether it be catholic schools or dictatorships, sometimes find a need to replace it, when changing, to something non-authoritarian? Perhaps it has to do with the generation gap flip-flops referred to in another topic? Or simple human nature?

___________

BTW are you sure that "in the 1930s a large number escaped the Roman Catholic church by joining the Communist Party". I ask because it somehow doesn't make sense.

As the main initial (balance of power in the old reichstadt) and lasting enemy of Hitler was was Bolchevism (OP Barbarossa etc) and the Commies in Germany were the first against the wall, and given the partial Roman Catholic complicity with the Fascist regimes, and considering cowardice and collaborationism as a fairly common human trait, particularly under such brutal regimes, let alone authoritarian, that it would be more likely that 'Communists' fled to Catholicism?

Edited January 8, 2008 by John Dolva

[John Simkin]

Judith is making slow progress. Unfortunately, her kidneys have not yet started working. The doctors in the specialist unit have been very good. There is always a doctor available to talk about the treatment that Judith is having and appear to accept that they are accountable for their actions.

The nursing is less good. About 75% of them are foreign immigrants. They tend to be more caring than the British born nurses. I suspect this is more about culture. Those from the underdeveloped word have grown up in a world where you automatically help those around you. The Philippine and Chinese nurses are especially good. The European born nurses seem to think of it as more of a job. It has definitely given me a new perspective on immigration. Maybe it is not only their labour we need.

[Craig Lamson]

Judith is making slow progress. Unfortunately, her kidneys have not yet started working. The doctors in the specialist unit have been very good. There is always a doctor available to talk about the treatment that Judith is having and appear to accept that they are accountable for their actions.

The nursing is less good. About 75% of them are foreign immigrants. They tend to be more caring than the British born nurses. I suspect this is more about culture. Those from the underdeveloped word have grown up in a world where you automatically help those around you. The Philippine and Chinese nurses are especially good. The European born nurses seem to think of it as more of a job. It has definitely given me a new perspective on immigration. Maybe it is not only their labour we need.

You are all still in our thoughts and prayers John. Keep up the good fight.

[John Simkin]

You are all still in our thoughts and prayers John. Keep up the good fight.

Judith came home from hospital yesterday. Her kidneys are still not working and she is having to go to hospital three times a week for dialysis. This is a major problem because she cannot take the anti-cancer drugs until her kidneys start working again.

[Dawn Meredith]

You are all still in our thoughts and prayers John. Keep up the good fight.

Judith came home from hospital yesterday. Her kidneys are still not working and she is having to go to hospital three times a week for dialysis. This is a major problem because she cannot take the anti-cancer drugs until her kidneys start working again.

John That is wonderful that she has rallied enough to come home. Hopefully her kidneys will resume functions and she can continue with the anti- cancer medication.

Dawn

[Guest David Guyatt]

The doctors in the specialist unit have been very good. There is always a doctor available to talk about the treatment that Judith is having and appear to accept that they are accountable for their actions.

I was interested in this observation, John. My own experience has led me to treat doctors with some caution so far as them accepting responsibility goes, and I never accept a prescription for medication without first researching the contra indications before agreeing to take such. Even so, situations arise that are not easily apparent to the patient. One situation was a cocktail of medicines that needed to be reviewed by the hospital pharmacist to ensure there were no conflicts involved. The pharmacist ran her eye over everything and approved the suggested prescription - only for me to have to point out that there was a very dangerous conflict involved. I have found that doctors rarely if ever read the notes of their colleagues from other departments and the danger is that they treat a condition as "their" part only, and not you as a whole.