The vanishing pool of blood

[Denny Zartman]

8 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Testimony of Malcolm Couch

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/couch.htm

Mr. BELIN - This pool of blood - about how far would it have been north of the curbline of Elm Street as Elm Street goes under the expressway?
Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - well, from Elm Street, you mean, itself?
Mr. BELIN - Yes. This is from that part of Elm Street that goes into the expressway? 

Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - 50 to 60 feet, and about 10 to 15 feet from the corner of the Texas Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN - It would be somewhere along that park area there?
Mr. COUCH - Right.

Mr. BELIN - Was there anything else you noticed by this pool of blood?
Mr. COUCH - No. There were no objects on the ground. We looked for something. We thought there would be something else, but -
Mr. BELIN - There was nothing?
Mr. COUCH - Huh -uh.

Okay, for the purposes of discussion here, I'm going to refer to these liquids reportedly observed by Couch and Coley as "pools of blood", while acknowledging the possibility they were something else entirely.

I still don't have a mental picture of exactly where the Couch pool of blood was seen. The area 50 or 60 feet north of the curb of Elm as Elm goes under the overpass seems to be in the railroad yards and parking area and is still at least 40 feet from the southwesternmost corner of the TSBD by my informal reckoning. The Coley pool of blood does seem to be about 50 feet north of the Elm curbline and would be described as being "somewhere along that park area there", but that area isn't under the overpass. I don't think there actually is a park area directly under the overpass anyway, so maybe I'm just overthinking this. I still want to try and be sure that we're not talking about two different pools of blood.

Can anyone help clarify for me where they believe the Malcolm Couch pool of blood was?

[Denny Zartman]

16 hours ago, Ken Rheberg said:

 

Malcolm Couch has two oral histories archived at the Sixth Floor Museum.  One was taken in 1989, the other in 2007.  The latter addresses, in detail, the pool of blood issue .  A 40 page PDF document of this history can be obtained for a relatively small charge.  I don't have my copy yet, but I plan to obtain one soon.  I hope it clears up many questions that you and others have about this subject.  It's extremely important, in my opinion.  I don't believe David Belin did a very good job of making clear for all of us down through the years what Couch was trying to say.

 

Hi Ken,

Is there a way to obtain a pdf of Couch's oral history online? From what I see, according to the Sixth Floor website, many of the oral histories aren't for sale and are only available to be examined in person at the museum.

[Michael Clark]

1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

Okay, for the purposes of discussion here, I'm going to refer to these liquids reportedly observed by Couch and Coley as "pools of blood", while acknowledging the possibility they were something else entirely.

I still don't have a mental picture of exactly where the Couch pool of blood was seen. The area 50 or 60 feet north of the curb of Elm as Elm goes under the overpass seems to be in the railroad yards and parking area and is still at least 40 feet from the southwesternmost corner of the TSBD by my informal reckoning. The Coley pool of blood does seem to be about 50 feet north of the Elm curbline and would be described as being "somewhere along that park area there", but that area isn't under the overpass. I don't think there actually is a park area directly under the overpass anyway, so maybe I'm just overthinking this. I still want to try and be sure that we're not talking about two different pools of blood.

Can anyone help clarify for me where they believe the Malcolm Couch pool of blood was?

I marked up a photo but I cannot post it. I can send it to someone if they will post it.

[Denny Zartman]

Deleted pictures.

Edited April 16 by Denny Zartman

[Sandy Larsen]

On 9/21/2018 at 2:43 AM, Ken Rheberg said:

 

I spoke with Malcolm Couch a few years before he died.  He told me it wasn't a pool of blood he saw that day.  It was brain matter.

Ken

 

It must have been quite a large chunk of brain matter for Couch to have recognized it. I mean, how does one recognize brain matter without the folds?

 

[Denny Zartman]

Here are two interesting bits of information.

WC Hearing Volume 21, Pg 214, Parkland hospital nurse Bertha Lozano:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=238&tab=page

Quote

A technician came to the desk and asked me to expect a private patient who was bleeding.

...

Blood technicians came to ask me who "Mr. X" was who did not have an ER number. Hematology also came with the same problem and was told the same thing.

WC Hearing Volume 21, Pg 259, Parkland hospital administrator Charles Price:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=283&tab=page

Quote

While talking with Mrs. Nelson, one of the Secret Service men who had been bruised or had a minor injury came to me and asked if there was another way out of the building.

 

[Ray Mitcham]

9 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

While talking with Mrs. Nelson, one of the Secret Service men who had been bruised or had a minor injury came to me and asked if there was another way out of the building.

Why would a secret service man want to know if there was another way out fo the building? Strange.

[Denny Zartman]

4 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Why would a secret service man want to know if there was another way out fo the building? Strange.

This is only a guess, but maybe he did not want his or someone else's injury to be seen by reporters? If Coley is to be believed, the FBI certainly didn't want any evidence of that blood pool's existence to be made public.

[Ken Rheberg]

On 9/23/2018 at 9:53 AM, Denny Zartman said:

Hi Ken,

Is there a way to obtain a pdf of Couch's oral history online? From what I see, according to the Sixth Floor website, many of the oral histories aren't for sale and are only available to be examined in person at the museum.

 

I don't believe the Oral History PDF's are available online.  Just give Museum Curator Stephen Fagin a call to place an order for the transcript.

 

[Robin Unger]

Darnell frame showing cops looking at a pool of liquid on the ground

Edited September 26, 2018 by Robin Unger

[John Butler]

Sandy Larsen   

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Posted Sunday at 06:03 PM

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 4:43 AM, Ken Rheberg said:

 

I spoke with Malcolm Couch a few years before he died.  He told me it wasn't a pool of blood he saw that day.  It was brain matter.

Ken

 

It must have been quite a large chunk of brain matter for Couch to have recognized it. I mean, how does one recognize brain matter without the folds?

 

--------------------

I am by no mean an ammunition or rifle expert.  I just rely on things I learned in the military long ago.  Any powerful type of ammunition, such as the 7.62 mm Nato round or the 30.06 (M1 round), is capable of producing an extraordinary wound such as President Kennedy's.

The bullet once it enters the brain creates thousands of atmospheres of pressure due to hydrostatic shock.  The brain consists mostly water.  The round moving through the skull creates a cone of force which is responsible for the large, somewhat circular exit wound near the occipital protuberance in the rear of the skull.

I suspect that the material from the brain that was ejected would be mostly liquid.  If you are a believer in the Zapruder film that plume of blood seen at about z313 to perhaps z317 has to have gone somewhere to the ground.

If the pool of blood is real and at the SW corner of the TSBD, it is another suggestion that the President's head wound could have occurred earlier than folks think.

[Michael Cross]

On 9/24/2018 at 5:07 AM, Ray Mitcham said:

Why would a secret service man want to know if there was another way out fo the building? Strange.

Fake SS in Dealy that day.  Perhaps one of them.

[Michael Clark]

 

Quote

Gerry,

...

When Kennedy was shot in the side of the head with the .45 by the guy on the stairs at the North Knoll [Cuban exile - any hints as to whom would have been THAT good with a .45? I've reviewed a lot of INTERPEN, Life magazine, Bayo stuff, and other photos, but I'm stuck], did someone then stick him like a prize pig, or shoot him, behind the retaining wall, and then load his body in a car behind the monument? Or did he manage to get away clean?

If the answer is yes, he was taken out according to plan, what did they do with the body? Put it in the trunk and then get the hell out of Dodge? Did the SS drive him away?

If no, is he still alive today, and do you have any idea how I might reach him?

Sorry - last question. Was it the plan to sit down after the action for those in Dealey Plaza? Just sit down and wait until the commotion ends? I noted that the signalman for the guy on the steps also sits down after the action, which is why I asked. I have no clue who he is either - he doesn't look Cuban anyway. It wasn't Roy was it?

Any information appreciated. Hope this email finds all well with you.

Kind regards,

Lee Forman

 

I am wondering what Lee was referring to here. He was a good researcher. I don’t think he would have posted this if he did not have something worth pursuing.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Michael Clark

[Ken Rheberg]

On 9/22/2018 at 5:58 PM, Denny Zartman said:

 

Thanks for the information. I didn't see Couch's oral history on the Sixth Floor Museum's YouTube channel. I will definitely look into getting a pdf of his interview soon as well. . .

 

 

Denny,

Could you give us an update on how your efforts are going in obtaining a PDF document of Couch's 2007 oral history from the Sixth Floor Museum?  If you've changed your mind for any reason about doing this, then let us know and I'll be glad to step in and request a copy.  On the other hand, if you're in the process of proceeding as you indicated above, please indicate what Couch had to say about the "brain matter" (mistakenly called a "pool of blood" by Belin) that he saw that day. Hopefully, this will answer some questions and clarify how his story fits in with the stories of Jerry Coley and Jean Hill.  It could also open up a whole new, but fascinating, can of worms.

Ken

Edited October 1, 2018 by Ken Rheberg

[Denny Zartman]

20 hours ago, Ken Rheberg said:

 

Denny,

Could you give us an update on how your efforts are going in obtaining a PDF document of Couch's 2007 oral history from the Sixth Floor Museum?  If you've changed your mind for any reason about doing this, then let us know and I'll be glad to step in and request a copy.  On the other hand, if you're in the process of proceeding as you indicated above, please indicate what Couch had to say about the "brain matter" (mistakenly called a "pool of blood" by Belin) that he saw that day. Hopefully, this will answer some questions and clarify how his story fits in with the stories of Jerry Coley and Jean Hill.  It could also open up a whole new, but fascinating, can of worms.

Ken

Hi Ken,

I just spoke with the manager of the reading room at the Museum, and she said she would e-mail me with further information on how to order the oral history. Hopefully I'll be able to get it soon.