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Evgenia Plotnikova-Doumerc

Student's question: Secret Service

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Paul, actually Jones was not the Operations Officer on Nov. 22, he was G2 - as can be demonstrated by the message traffic that went through him and his own messages to the FBI as well as the organization chart which the ARRB obtained. The ARRB investigated the issues of the so called stand down, the action of the 112th and Jones remarks about the possiblity of it being one of his officers who showed the ID behind the fence.

I encourage you to read their extensive investigation and reports which I have published via Lancer on CD. One of the things that they were rather put off by is that several of the things Jones said can simply be shown to be untrue - and they corroborated this by interviews with several 112th Dallas personnel. In fact their own internal memos show that they were left with the question of whether Jones was simply talking off the top of his head, was for some reason making up information or was simply unreliable.

After considerable study I can't answer that any more than they could but I can affirm to you that Jones is a terrible source and the only net effect was that his testimony managed to divert the investigation of the people with ID - a very serious issue. If I knew who actually selected Jones and brought him to the Committees, rather than the actual Commanders of the Dallas office of the 112th and the actual Unit Commander - whose names are well documented in the 112th unit history - I might have an opinion but at the moment it could either have been a mistake, or something else.

-- Larry

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To add to what Larry has said, the ARRB interviewed Lt. Col. Reich, who was commander of the 316th INTC Group in November 1963, and he firmly denied there was any stand down order as claimed by Prouty. When Reich first read Prouty's claim, in Mark Lane's book, he considered taking legal action, and he told the ARRB "that guy (Prouty) has been smoking something." All this is covered in Larry's CD "Keys to the Conspiracy" available from JFK Lancer.

Regarding the Secret Service, the undeniable fact is that JFK was stripped of normal security in Dallas. The number of escorting motorcycles was reduced, those that would normally ride beside the limo were moved back, and where motorcycles would normally flank the limo in front there were none. This action was taken by the Secret Service in a meeting the night before with the Dallas Police, who had planned the normal deployment. As the HSCA put it, these changes made the Dallas motorcade "uniquely insecure." In addition, the press truck that would normally be in front of the limo was eliminated from the motorcade, with the press stuck back where they couldn't see or photograph anything. No one seems to know how this happened! These actions left nothing but open space in front of the limo for snipers from the right, front, or left. McHugh or another JFK military aide who would often ride in the middle of the front seat was also absent from the limo and thus out of any line of fire.

Strange that they went to this trouble to leave JFK completely open to snipers from the front or side, when Oswald behind him was going to do all the shooting!

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To follow up on a point by Ron, there were a couple of very unusual things about he motorcade which can be traced in a direction other than the Secret Service. Ron's point about the Press Truck is extremely important because most political motorcades - which this was - are for the purpose of generating not only exposure but media coverage. Which is why an open truck with ample room for extensive press photography is a fixture of most motorcades. Although I have not studied this from a comparative standpoint (somebody should) my gut feel is also that the Dallas motorcade also uniquely placed JFK way to close to the front of the motorcade. And thirdly, it is now documented that at least two cycles were stripped off the flanks of the Limo at Love field....under instructions of someone who seemed to be associated with the Vice President's security detail.

The reason I bring this up is that the selection of vehicles, positioning and even who rode who where were coordinaed by Jack Puterbaugh who was acting as DNC advance man and who was coordinating with Cliff Carter - Johnson's key aide and the man who in his Johnson library oral history states that he observed a SS man with an automatic wepon look up to the TSBD and prepare to fire back - he just couldn't acquire his target in time.... which of course is easy to show as untrue from DP photographs.

-- just to introduce the thought that there may have been more subtle maneuvering in play on Nov. 22

-- Larry

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Wow...Thanks a lot for all this information. When asking the question I expected that SS perhaps did not do theIR job very well, but I have never expected that they would maneuver in such a way...There was some argueing whether it was in the SS's power to check all the buildings and get their people into every of them. Perhaps not, but to me the other examples of their misfollowing of the instructions are quite shocking!

And I've also got some follow-up question. :D

First, the question about the security again. As I could see from the pictures presidents limo was convertible. Is such kind of a car usual for Presidents' trips as a PR action for the public or was it an exception?

Second, when reading the post of Mr Forman I was a bit surprised by the following quote ''Who did, who decided let's go to Dallas? You've been to Fort Worth, you've got to go to Dallas. That's important because whoever decided that knew some things.'' So, it wasn't the resident's decision to go to Dallas? What were his actual plans in the Texas?

And the last question. I promise, the last :D for this post! May be it is quite a stupid question and I am a bit embarrassed to ask it, but few members of the forum used the abbreviation ''ARRB''. What does this mean? :lol:

And I really wanted to thank everyone one more time, because this is such an interesting reading and all the explanations are a lot easier for me to read than on the Internet. So, thank you for all this fascinating learning! :D

Edited by Evgenia Plotnikova-Doumerc

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ARRB stands for the Assassination Records Review Board. See the post by Doug Horne in the thread "Student Questions: JFK and LBJ" (second page) for an excellent description of the ARRB and its work. Mr. Horne was an ARRB staff analyst.

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Thank you, Mr Ecker!

When I first joined the forum I read all the posts in that thread (,"Student Questions: JFK and LBJ") but I still did not read the new ones, which, I know, is not very good of me! I promise to do this, otherwise I will start to ask this kind of questions with already available on the forum answers. Sorry for that!

Edited by Evgenia Plotnikova-Doumerc

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On the two questions about the Texas Trip, that's is a very long and involved story - essentially starting several months earlier when the President made a trip to west Texas and met with Johnson and others, discussion began at that time of the need for a major political visit to the state as part of the ramp up for the election campaign. Over the next several months the trip grew from first being a visit to NASA in Houston to expand to other cities and speaking engagements as well as a major reception by the Gov. and a night at the Johnson Ranch.

The remark about Fort Worth and Dallas is not very suspicious though, the two cities are very close, long time rivals and it would have been terrible politics to visit one and not the other.

The Johnson camp afterwards tried to portray the whole trip as being one desired by the Kennedy staff to raise money but that is simply not true and in general the Kennedy staff was not happy about the trip and felt forced into it in order to try to pull the factions of the Texas Democratic party back together before the campaign begin. Cliff Carter does a fine job of offering disinformation about the trip in his oral history at the Johnson library, not even being willing to discuss any serious fraction in the state party politics.

As to the Limo, yes JFK always used an open limo for visiblity whenever possible, even on international trips.

-- Larry

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Larry,

You wrote:

After considerable study I can't answer that any more than they could but I can affirm to you that Jones is a terrible source and the only net effect was that his testimony managed to divert the investigation of the people with ID - a very serious issue.

During his HSCA testimony, Jones spoke about intelligence sources within local law enforcement:

Mr. Jones. Our special agents assigned to a military intelligence group were military personnel in most cases, and they would have sources within the police department that would be on the payroll of the police department report to them.

And the source that I received this information from came through a source in the police department through my agent that I considered a source to me.

I happened to stumble across this document in the NARA database:

Have you ever run across information concerning Don Stringfellow?

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : USA

RECORD NUMBER : 197-10002-10369

RECORDS SERIES : HEADQUARTERS FILES, PENTAGON TELECOMMUNICATIONS CENTER

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : COMMANDING GENERAL US CONTINENTAL ARMY COMMAND

FROM :

TO : CINC, US STRIKE COMMAND

TITLE : INFORMATION ON FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE

DATE : 11/26/1963

PAGES : 3

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : MILITARY DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE (SECURITY

RISKS/COUNTERINTELLIGENCE); MILITARY DOMESTIC

SURVEILLANCE (FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE); LEE

HARVEY OSWALD; COLLINS, BARBARA; GIBSON, RICHARD; OSWALD, HARVEY LEE: BACKGROUND INFORMATION, CONNECTION WITH COMMITTEE; MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY; TRAVEL TO USSR, CUBA; OSWALD, MARINA NIKOLAEVNA: SPOUSE; STRINGFELLOW, DON: ASST CHIEF, INTELLIGENCE SECTION, DALLAS POLICE DEPT; MILITARY INTELLIGENCE LIAISON WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT (DALLAS POLICE)

CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/30/1996

COMMENTS : COPY ATTACHED

Steve Thomas

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Steve, I've heard of Stringfellow in general but the only DPD name I see

associated with intel SPOT reports out of Dallas is DPD Captain Dowdy.

By the weekend, Lt. Col. Boyd of the Dallas 112th office had been assigned

to be on site with DPD to get reports directly; he was Deputy Commander

of Region II which included Dallas. His superior in Dallas was Lt. Col.

Roy Pate. Either Pate or Boyd would have been the correct people to have

questioned about what the 112th was doing in Dallas on Nov. 22, not Jones

who is listed as S2 Intelligence Officer. The other candidates would have been

Lt. Col Stanley Greer who was actually the Operations officer or his boss the

Group Commander Col. Williard Mize; both located at 112th headquarters in

San Antonio.

.....Larry

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Larry, Evgenia, et al,

http://www.esi-lifeforce.com/ExecutiveProtection.html

Found this site by strange coicidence, found it very interesting. Training courses on how to provide Executive Protection - 2004 schedule. I wonder how much of the course uses Dealey Plaza as an example of what not to do. There's even a course on limo driving.

If the New Executive Protection Bible exists, makes you wonder about what happen to the old one, and when it was printed.

- lee

PRINCIPLES OF PROTECTION

Principles of Protection consists of the 500 page ESI VIP Protection Manual or CD Rom in Acrobat Format written by ESI staff . It is this ESI VIP Protection Manual that became the foundation of the widely respected published book by Martha Braunig, The New Executive Protection Bible. Also included in this course is The Protection Agent in the Corporate World This course will cover both High Profile Protective Details as well as its opposite Low Profile Covert Security. The course will cover all aspects of advance work, follow-up and limousine procedures, deployment of personnel and the organization of a team detail, working the protectee, and protective hardware. High Profile Protection Details concepts are taken from Secret Service methods and former Secret Service Agents who have operationalized these concepts in private practice. The course covers personal protection services, including dignitary, celebrity and single person protection details.

LESSON INSTRUCTION:

Principles of Protection

Personnel Requirements

Follow-up and Limousine Procedures

Advance Preparations

Deployment of Personnel

Working the Protectee

Protective Intelligence

Communications

Protective Hardware

Organization of Team

Dress and Manner

Protective Techniques

Post Coverage

Protection While Traveling

Protection While Walking

Protection in Assemblies

Protection of Residence

Special Problems

Crowd Control

Handling Cranks and Stalkers

Corporate Executive Protection and Crisis Management

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Lee, actually one of the elements of the WC report was a study of SS protection and I think you will find extensive proposals for changes in procedures.

If you had both pre and post versions of the guidelines I expect you would

find the post much longer and very much different - the JFK assassination

brought a great change in Presidential and even VP protection. One of the

mistakes that can be easily made is to compare protection post 1963 with

what was accepted practice at the time of Dallas.

...and I think that Driver section is a direct response to Greer's lack

of training and preparation.

Very timely comparison to the high level conclusions in the

release of the 911 report today. I expect that you will find many

sentences and paragraphs that would be interchangeable with Presidential

protection circa 1963.

-- Larry

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Very timely comparison to the high level conclusions in the

release of the 911 report today.  I expect that you will find many

sentences and paragraphs that would be interchangeable with Presidential

protection circa 1963.

-- Larry

Yes. To borrow a phrase from the HSCA, America on 9/11 was "uniquely insecure."

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As to the Limo, yes JFK always used an open limo for visiblity whenever possible, even on international trips.

-- Larry

Was his limousine open in Ireland and Berlin?

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Steve, I've heard of Stringfellow in general but the only DPD name I see

associated with intel SPOT reports out of Dallas is DPD Captain Dowdy.

By the weekend, Lt. Col. Boyd of the Dallas 112th office had been assigned

to be on site with DPD to get reports directly; he was Deputy Commander

of Region II which included Dallas. His superior in Dallas was Lt. Col.

Roy Pate. Either Pate or Boyd would have been the correct people to have

questioned about what the 112th was doing in Dallas on Nov. 22, not Jones

who is listed as S2 Intelligence Officer. The other candidates would have been

Lt. Col Stanley Greer who was actually the Operations officer or his boss the

Group Commander Col. Williard Mize; both located at 112th headquarters in

San Antonio.

.....Larry

bump (emphasis added)

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Larry,

You wrote:

After considerable study I can't answer that any more than they could but I can affirm to you that Jones is a terrible source and the only net effect was that his testimony managed to divert the investigation of the people with ID - a very serious issue.

During his HSCA testimony, Jones spoke about intelligence sources within local law enforcement:

Mr. Jones. Our special agents assigned to a military intelligence group were military personnel in most cases, and they would have sources within the police department that would be on the payroll of the police department report to them.

And the source that I received this information from came through a source in the police department through my agent that I considered a source to me.

I happened to stumble across this document in the NARA database:

Have you ever run across information concerning Don Stringfellow?

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : USA

RECORD NUMBER : 197-10002-10369

RECORDS SERIES : HEADQUARTERS FILES, PENTAGON TELECOMMUNICATIONS CENTER

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : COMMANDING GENERAL US CONTINENTAL ARMY COMMAND

FROM :

TO : CINC, US STRIKE COMMAND

TITLE : INFORMATION ON FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE

DATE : 11/26/1963

PAGES : 3

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : MILITARY DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE (SECURITY

RISKS/COUNTERINTELLIGENCE); MILITARY DOMESTIC

SURVEILLANCE (FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE); LEE

HARVEY OSWALD; COLLINS, BARBARA; GIBSON, RICHARD; OSWALD, HARVEY LEE: BACKGROUND INFORMATION, CONNECTION WITH COMMITTEE; MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY; TRAVEL TO USSR, CUBA; OSWALD, MARINA NIKOLAEVNA: SPOUSE; STRINGFELLOW, DON: ASST CHIEF, INTELLIGENCE SECTION, DALLAS POLICE DEPT; MILITARY INTELLIGENCE LIAISON WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT (DALLAS POLICE)

CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/30/1996

COMMENTS : COPY ATTACHED

Steve Thomas

Steve, and Larry and Ron, thanks for your interest in this.

Is this document posted anywhere on the internet?

Thanks

BK

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