Jack White Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 While the limo travels half a block, a middle aged man outraces it, gets ahead of it to take photos. Wow...what speed! Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 While the limo travels half a block, a middle aged man outraces it,gets ahead of it to take photos. Wow...what speed! Jack So what now, is Willis supposed to be lying about what he did and is now part of the conspiracy despite his always saying that at least one shot came from in front of the limo! The things you come up with, Jack ... (sigh) Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) While the limo travels half a block, a middle aged man outraces it,gets ahead of it to take photos. Wow...what speed! Jack So what now, is Willis supposed to be lying about what he did and is now part of the conspiracy despite his always saying that at least one shot came from in front of the limo! The things you come up with, Jack ... (sigh) Bill Miller It is sad that serious questions such as this study present draw only stupid responses like the above. I have posed a serious MATH question. I am disappointed that "Miller's" is the only reply. Consider this: My thought is that SOMETHING SLOWED THE MOTORCADE allowing Willis time to make his run. Could it have been the "wide turn" which is not seen in Zapruder? Maybe to straighten back up, the limo and QM stopped and backed up a few feet...of course not seen in other films. Willis could not run a block faster than a car going half a block! You do the math. He would have to run TWICE AS FAST AS THE CAR TO TRAVEL THE SAME DISTANCE, right? So if the car was going 11 mph, Willis would have to run 22 mph to catch it, right? Well...I looked it up on the internet: "the benchmark is the 100 meter, and Asafa Powell is definitely the fastest man in the world. 36.88 km/hour or 22.9 miles per hour" And Willis was running through a heavy crowd, as seen in Dorman. In fact, he is shown in Dorman shooting his number 3 photo on the corner of Main and Houston, with a heavy crowd of people between him and Elm...and the limo was already halfway to Elm. The question to be asked is not how fast Willis could run, BUT "WHAT SLOWED THE MOTORCADE ENOUGH FOR HIM TO CATCH UP WITH IT?" Serious questions deserve serious answers. Jack Edited March 5, 2008 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Bailey Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Good Point Jack!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Coumans Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Good Point Jack!!! Agree! Good point Jack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Jack, Very interesting. First question to all, if known. Is this Willis taking his #3 from Muchmore's movie? The (inset) is Willis' #3. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Jack,Very interesting. First question to all, if known. Is this Willis taking his #3 from Muchmore's movie? The (inset) is Willis' #3. chris Thanks, Chris...I could not isolate that frame that clearly. Yes, I think it is Willis. You will also find him in Dorman. How about doing that one for us. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Jack, Here's 2 frames from Dorman, since the frame with Willis (red arrow) is really poor. Inset is Willis#2. Also, from Muchmore, I believe this is Willis crossing her LOS to shoot his #2. As this occurs about 2 seconds before the limo gets to where it is in Willis#2. A confirmation would help. chris Edited March 6, 2008 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) I have posed a serious MATH question. I am disappointed that "Miller's"is the only reply. Consider this: My thought is that SOMETHING SLOWED THE MOTORCADE allowing Willis time to make his run. Could it have been the "wide turn" which is not seen in Zapruder? Maybe to straighten back up, the limo and QM stopped and backed up a few feet...of course not seen in other films. Willis could not run a block faster than a car going half a block! You do the math. He would have to run TWICE AS FAST AS THE CAR TO TRAVEL THE SAME DISTANCE, right? So if the car was going 11 mph, Willis would have to run 22 mph to catch it, right? Well...I looked it up on the internet: What a load of ............ . Phil Willis and his wife had been around for years ... did you ever present this nonsense to them ... of course not. How about Rosemary ... ever take this silliness to her ... probably not? Have you ever timed the limo from Houston to Elm in the assassination films and have someone try and duplicate Willis's run ... I doubt it. Was it not Brehm who said that after the President came onto Houston that he carried 'little Joe' to where we see him in the Zapruder film. So after all this time - why now are you asking such things ... have not there always been an uniformed gullible audience to play to in the past years when these witnesses were alive? And what slowed the limo down ... you must be joking - right? Could one imagine the limo not slowing down for the turn onto Elm Street ... that way you could be claiming that someone was rushing the turn to get JFK killed quicker. (sigh~) Bill Miller Edited March 6, 2008 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 I have posed a serious MATH question. I am disappointed that "Miller's"is the only reply. Consider this: My thought is that SOMETHING SLOWED THE MOTORCADE allowing Willis time to make his run. Could it have been the "wide turn" which is not seen in Zapruder? Maybe to straighten back up, the limo and QM stopped and backed up a few feet...of course not seen in other films. Willis could not run a block faster than a car going half a block! You do the math. He would have to run TWICE AS FAST AS THE CAR TO TRAVEL THE SAME DISTANCE, right? So if the car was going 11 mph, Willis would have to run 22 mph to catch it, right? Well...I looked it up on the internet: What a load of ............ . Phil Willis and his wife had been around for years ... did you ever present this nonsense to them ... of course not. How about Rosemary ... ever take this silliness to her ... probably not? Have you ever timed the limo from Houston to Elm in the assassination films and have someone try and duplicate Willis's run ... I doubt it. Was it not Brehm who said that after the President came onto Houston that he carried 'little Joe' to where we see him in the Zapruder film. So after all this time - why now are you asking such things ... have not there always been an uniformed gullible audience to play to in the past years when these witnesses were alive? And what slowed the limo down ... you must be joking - right? Could one imagine the limo not slowing down for the turn onto Elm Street ... that way you could be claiming that someone was rushing the turn to get JFK killed quicker. (sigh~) Bill Miller "Miller" is completely DENSE. This is NOT about the credibility of Willis or Brehm! It is about HOW THEY HAD TIME TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR FEATS! They could not have gone fast enough UNLESS THE MOTORCADE SLOWED! Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you station yourself at first? Were you at the corner, you say? Mr. WILLIS. At the corner of Houston and Main. Mr. WILLIS. I remained there until I got the shot of the President approaching the turn onto Houston Street, and being a personal friend of then Vice President Lyndon Johnson, we were anxious to get him in one, and did. Then I took a picture as they turned onto Houston Street. Then another one from the rear after they proceeded down Houston approaching the turn they were to make onto Elm. Then I immediately ran across the plaza, raced over to Elm Street and stationed myself on the curb in front of the Texas School Book Depository. Mr. LIEBELER. You were there when the motorcade made a left turn on Houston and went down Elm Street; is that correct? Mr. WILLIS. Yes; and I photographed the President. I was standing in front of the curb, as is shown in Life magazine, on the edge of the street, and I photographed the presidential car at not more than 10 feet because I didn't get the front or the rear of the car. I just got the occupants in the center. I was that close. So Willis is at the corner of Houston/Main when he takes #3. Myers did a in-depth sync comparison among the various films. The frame we have from Muchmore with Willis in it, Myers has occuring at 26.77 sec. before frame 313. Which means: Willis has 16 seconds to get to his position at frame 133 in Zapruder's film, from the time he takes picture#3 on the corner of Houston/Main. All preliminary of course. Doesn't take into account any frame excision's from Zapruder. Distances needed!!! chris Edited March 6, 2008 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you station yourself at first? Were you at the corner, you say? Mr. WILLIS. At the corner of Houston and Main. Mr. WILLIS. I remained there until I got the shot of the President approaching the turn onto Houston Street, and being a personal friend of then Vice President Lyndon Johnson, we were anxious to get him in one, and did. Then I took a picture as they turned onto Houston Street. Then another one from the rear after they proceeded down Houston approaching the turn they were to make onto Elm. Then I immediately ran across the plaza, raced over to Elm Street and stationed myself on the curb in front of the Texas School Book Depository. Mr. LIEBELER. You were there when the motorcade made a left turn on Houston and went down Elm Street; is that correct? Mr. WILLIS. Yes; and I photographed the President. I was standing in front of the curb, as is shown in Life magazine, on the edge of the street, and I photographed the presidential car at not more than 10 feet because I didn't get the front or the rear of the car. I just got the occupants in the center. I was that close. So Willis is at the corner of Houston/Main when he takes #3. Myers did a in-depth sync comparison among the various films. The frame we have from Muchmore with Willis in it, Myers has occuring at 26.77 sec. before frame 313. Which means: Willis has 16 seconds to get to his position at frame 133 in Zapruder's film, from the time he takes picture#3 on the corner of Houston/Main. All preliminary of course. Doesn't take into account any frame excision's from Zapruder. Distances needed!!! chris I was not aware of Myers' chart. The block is 200 feet, as I recall, plus about 30 feet west on Elm. 200 feet in 16 seconds = 12.5 feet per second. Does anyone have Bond 1, 2 and 3? Cutler shows them made of this scene. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you station yourself at first? Were you at the corner, you say? Mr. WILLIS. At the corner of Houston and Main. Mr. WILLIS. I remained there until I got the shot of the President approaching the turn onto Houston Street, and being a personal friend of then Vice President Lyndon Johnson, we were anxious to get him in one, and did. Then I took a picture as they turned onto Houston Street. Then another one from the rear after they proceeded down Houston approaching the turn they were to make onto Elm. Then I immediately ran across the plaza, raced over to Elm Street and stationed myself on the curb in front of the Texas School Book Depository. Mr. LIEBELER. You were there when the motorcade made a left turn on Houston and went down Elm Street; is that correct? Mr. WILLIS. Yes; and I photographed the President. I was standing in front of the curb, as is shown in Life magazine, on the edge of the street, and I photographed the presidential car at not more than 10 feet because I didn't get the front or the rear of the car. I just got the occupants in the center. I was that close. So Willis is at the corner of Houston/Main when he takes #3. Myers did a in-depth sync comparison among the various films. The frame we have from Muchmore with Willis in it, Myers has occuring at 26.77 sec. before frame 313. Which means: Willis has 16 seconds to get to his position at frame 133 in Zapruder's film, from the time he takes picture#3 on the corner of Houston/Main. All preliminary of course. Doesn't take into account any frame excision's from Zapruder. Distances needed!!! chris I was not aware of Myers' chart. The block is 200 feet, as I recall, plus about 30 feet west on Elm. 200 feet in 16 seconds = 12.5 feet per second. Does anyone have Bond 1, 2 and 3? Cutler shows them made of this scene. Jack Jack, 1 mph=1.46 ft per sec. So not counting the extra 30+ ft on Elm, I believe that's about 9mph running. Pretty sure Willis shows up in the Bell and Martin films. Will check that tomorrow. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 "Miller" is completely DENSE. This is NOT about the credibility of Willis or Brehm! It is about HOW THEY HAD TIME TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR FEATS! They could not have gone fast enough UNLESS THE MOTORCADE SLOWED! Jack Jack, is life so boring that you feel this stuff is important? Yes, had the limo been racing towards the TSBD like it was going to a fire, then Willis could not have kept up with the car. But JFK was wanting exposure and wanted the crowds to see their President. The turn from Houston onto Elm isn't a mere right turn ... its far greater than that. Greer had to slow the car down just to make the turn and from what some witnesses had said ... he almost hit the curb anyway. So thanks for pointing out the obvious as if it was some big mystery why the limo had to slow the car down, thus allowing Phil Wills to get to Elm in time to snap another photo. And by the way, Jack ... lets talk about how dense I am. In your initial postings to this thread you were not drawing attention to a slow moving limo like you are now doing. Instead you were trying to make it appear as if Phil Willis was running too fast ... I believe you said, "Wow ... what speed!" Below is exactly what you said and implied ........................... "While the limo travels half a block, a middle aged man outraces it, gets ahead of it to take photos. Wow...what speed! Jack" Then in your caption you ask, "Amazing! How is this possible!" So you make it out like this 'middle-aged man' was super fast and now you are acting like its a simple matter of the limo going slow enough to allow Willis to beat it as if that was your position all along. So is there anyone now who doesn't understand that a human can run faster than a slow moving car preparing to make a 120+ degree turn. Top notch stuff, Jack ... simply top notch!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 "Miller" is completely DENSE. This is NOT about the credibility of Willis or Brehm! It is about HOW THEY HAD TIME TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR FEATS! They could not have gone fast enough UNLESS THE MOTORCADE SLOWED! Jack Jack, is life so boring that you feel this stuff is important? Yes, had the limo been racing towards the TSBD like it was going to a fire, then Willis could not have kept up with the car. But JFK was wanting exposure and wanted the crowds to see their President. The turn from Houston onto Elm isn't a mere right turn ... its far greater than that. Greer had to slow the car down just to make the turn and from what some witnesses had said ... he almost hit the curb anyway. So thanks for pointing out the obvious as if it was some big mystery why the limo had to slow the car down, thus allowing Phil Wills to get to Elm in time to snap another photo. And by the way, Jack ... lets talk about how dense I am. In your initial postings to this thread you were not drawing attention to a slow moving limo like you are now doing. Instead you were trying to make it appear as if Phil Willis was running too fast ... I believe you said, "Wow ... what speed!" Below is exactly what you said and implied ........................... "While the limo travels half a block, a middle aged man outraces it, gets ahead of it to take photos. Wow...what speed! Jack" Then in your caption you ask, "Amazing! How is this possible!" So you make it out like this 'middle-aged man' was super fast and now you are acting like its a simple matter of the limo going slow enough to allow Willis to beat it as if that was your position all along. So is there anyone now who doesn't understand that a human can run faster than a slow moving car preparing to make a 120+ degree turn. Top notch stuff, Jack ... simply top notch!!!! Now "Miller" tries his hand at psychoanalysis! Wotta guy! He has no idea what I have in mind when I write! He cannot detect "tongue-in-cheek". When I said WOW, it was to indicate something impossible...not that Willis had superhuman speed. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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