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Thread for Steve, Jan, Kathy and others about 9/11


9/11  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Your take on 9/11

    • It was an "inside job" MIHOP
      4
    • They let it happen on purpose
      3
    • The US Gov't was criminally negligent
      4
    • The US Gov't did not have enough info to prevent the attacks
      8
  2. 2. The Bush et al orchestrated the attacks.

    • Definitely true
      2
    • Probably true
      4
    • Possibly true (about 50/50)
      1
    • Unlikely or definitely not true.
      12
  3. 3. They didn't organize the attacks but let them happen

    • It's more likely the organized the attacks
      2
    • Definitely or probably true
      5
    • Possibly true (about 50/50)
      5
    • Unlikely or definitely not true.
      7


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…I am more of a fence-sitter [re:9/11] at this point,
My own position with regard to 9/11 is that, at this moment in time, I don't think there is sufficient evidence to conclude that any of the major explanations - (very loosely), the official version versus it was allowed to happen versus it was an inside job - are definitely true and explain every piece of evidence. Indeed, I'm probably closest to Peter Dale Scott, in his exploration of "Recurring Patterns in America's Deep Events" here (nb it's a 31-page pdf file):

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/...,911,andWar.pdf

Therefore, I think it's absolutely right for journalists and everyone else to continue searching for and sifting the evidence.

I certainly don't adopt the position of Alexander Cockburn who seems to have genuine disgust for the 9/11 Truth movement:

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/3221

I don't have an aversion to conspiracy, eg, I believe JFK was assassinated at the behest of the ruling cabal(Politico's Industrialists, JCS etc) Watergate was a trap set to catch Nixon, both MLK, and RFK were murdered by the same people who killed JFK, and for much the same reasons...October surprise, some elements of 911 etc, etc, I just don't happen to think that everything is explainable as a Political conspracy is all.

Jan, Kathy Steve and others ‘on the fence’ concerning 9/11, I am curious as to what points concerning 9/11 you have doubts about. I suggest the following: each of you mention your top (up to five) doubts, hopefully you will look over the existent threads to avoid rehash. The partisans of each side can give you their take.

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There is no way Len - or even the mods - can rig this. I highly doubt it would even be possible for John or Andy to do so.

Try voting again. If you can't, then you vote was either recorded, you hit 'submit vote' without making any selections, or there is something wrong with your browser.

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There is no way Len - or even the mods - can rig this. I highly doubt it would even be possible for John or Andy to do so.

Try voting again. If you can't, then you vote was either recorded, you hit 'submit vote' without making any selections, or there is something wrong with your browser.

Nathaniel should have been able to figure out that I have no control over the foru's software. His attack is typical of the "9/11CT" mindset; something goes wrong -"it must be a conspiracy". Disappointing (but not at all surprising) that he would make an accusation before ascertaining the facts. But that's what 'truthers' do in general.

The odd thing though is at this point it says there were 5 votes but only 4 are registered Perhaps Andy or John could set it so that he could vote again.

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I attempted to vote. I got a message that I had not registered a vote

by selecting one or more radio buttons, when I obviously HAD. Apparently

the poll is rigged to reject votes of a certain point of view.

I tried three times. Same result.

Jack

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I don't know what the problem with the poll could be for Jack or Nathaniel. This poll worked normally for me, when I tried moments ago. I was the 7th participant. I suggest you try again, or try another computer from another location. I don't have the means nor the skills to investigate why this may not work for some members.

Antti

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Guest David Guyatt

I recommend, as always, not to vote. :rolleyes:

Taking part in polls, like elections, is simply playing the game of another's choosing...

Yours cynically

David

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Guest Stephen Turner
…I am more of a fence-sitter [re:9/11] at this point,
My own position with regard to 9/11 is that, at this moment in time, I don't think there is sufficient evidence to conclude that any of the major explanations - (very loosely), the official version versus it was allowed to happen versus it was an inside job - are definitely true and explain every piece of evidence. Indeed, I'm probably closest to Peter Dale Scott, in his exploration of "Recurring Patterns in America's Deep Events" here (nb it's a 31-page pdf file):

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/...,911,andWar.pdf

Therefore, I think it's absolutely right for journalists and everyone else to continue searching for and sifting the evidence.

I certainly don't adopt the position of Alexander Cockburn who seems to have genuine disgust for the 9/11 Truth movement:

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/3221

I don't have an aversion to conspiracy, eg, I believe JFK was assassinated at the behest of the ruling cabal(Politico's Industrialists, JCS etc) Watergate was a trap set to catch Nixon, both MLK, and RFK were murdered by the same people who killed JFK, and for much the same reasons...October surprise, some elements of 911 etc, etc, I just don't happen to think that everything is explainable as a Political conspracy is all.

Jan, Kathy Steve and others ‘on the fence’ concerning 9/11, I am curious as to what points concerning 9/11 you have doubts about. I suggest the following: each of you mention your top (up to five) doubts, hopefully you will look over the existent threads to avoid rehash. The partisans of each side can give you their take.

Len, I have purposely ceased commenting on 911 for two reasons, one, I was in danger of being branded a "left gatekeeper" and I don't have Chomsky's intellectual breadth or depth, and two, What was intially a tragedy for thousands of innocent Americans, and laterly hunderds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's, is in danger of becoming a mere parlour game. But, here's my two pence worth.

First, lets seperate out the diasterous Iraqi, and Afgan wars, definately a conspiracy, aided and abetted by Blair and his "Dodgy"(read outright lies ) dossiers, and false claims about Iraqi strike capablity.

THIS, should people choose to see it, is the real conspiracy.

Second, America was warned by at least ten other intel services of what was coming, Putin even tried to speak directly to Bush only days before 911, so any claims of being taken by surprise are, by extention, lies. The Neo cons simply had to sit back, relax (you can always blame incompitence) and wait. It would also be interesting to know how deeply penetrated Al quada were, particularly by the CIA, their old paymasters in Afganistan.

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Guest Gary Loughran

When I posted my poll selections I got the following response from the forum remote viewing software

"Your vote for Jeb Bush is being processed"

I demand a recount.

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Guest Stephen Turner
When I posted my poll selections I got the following response from the forum remote viewing software

"Your vote for Jeb Bush is being processed"

I demand a recount.

:rolleyes:

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In one place let it happen has 1/10 votes; in another let it happen has 50%. Flawed poll

No Peter in one it got 1 vote in the other it got 2. I have no control if someone was inconsistant. Your belief that the "results...don't reflect correctly [your] vote" are probally due to similar confusion.

and anyway a poll shows [if well structured] what we [who care to 'vote'] think - not what happened.

This is what is was meant to reflect

At university I spend much time on the construction of questionaires [polls] and this one lacks what is called internal consistancy. I think Len constructed it this way under MIHOP protocol.

Odd that someone who can't even interpret simple poll results correctlly claims to construct polls. The 1st question was to determine members' views the 2nd and 3rd were to messure how sure they were.

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I started a test poll here on a forum that has been inactive for years.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=12799&st=0

It seems that Nathaniel clicked the "See Poll Results (null vote)" option. I imagine Jack didn't make a selection in one or more of the 3 questions, the software only lets you vote if your make a selection for all 3.

If any of the supposed problems are due to the software rather that Jack, Peter and Nathniel's errors I obviously have no control over that. This didn't stop them from making completely unfounded accusations.

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I started a test poll here on a forum that has been inactive for years.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=12799&st=0

It seems that Nathaniel clicked the "See Poll Results (null vote)" option. I imagine Jack didn't make a selection in one or more of the 3 questions, the software only lets you vote if your make a selection for all 3.

If any of the supposed problems are due to the software rather that Jack, Peter and Nathniel's errors I obviously have no control over that. This didn't stop them from making completely unfounded accusations.

SO LEN ADMITS THE POLL IS RIGGED. Two of the categories HAD NO ANSWERS which I agreed with,

One category had only ONE answer I agreed with. So I voted in just ONE category! So my vote was

not counted.

To be valid, each category should have a NONE OF THE ABOVE response.

So much for honesty.

Jack

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Len, I have purposely ceased commenting on 911 for two reasons, one, I was in danger of being branded a "left gatekeeper" and I don't have Chomsky's intellectual breadth or depth, and two, What was intially a tragedy for thousands of innocent Americans, and laterly hunderds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's, is in danger of becoming a mere parlour game. But, here's my two pence worth.

Me too, Stephen, except in my case it is self preservation, pure and simple. I am not going to come over here and get blasted. I get my fair share on the other forum, which is why I have learned alot of time that to be protective "I keep my visions to myself."(Fleetwood Mac, Rumours)

I am not really happy to come home, and find myself being dragged through the mud.

The Immoderate Moderator.

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