JFK: Inside the Target Car

[William Kelly]

It would seem that, in light of the SA/NAA tests, which latter did not apparently fall within the "exact" match of the bullets from the batch CE399, et al., were made from (but theoretically could have come from nearby batches), if we are going to be so specific, and since we want a different rifle to be used, is there anyone here (or anywhere else you can think of) who can suggest exactly what weapon, ammunition, manufacture and batch that we should use to validate the test?

The courts have already determined that Guinn's NAA bullet matching theory is junk science. Bullet lead is not like human DNA, so it is not possible to say what caliber of bullet gave rise to the fragments found in JFK's head or Connally's body.

The theory that 399 and the limo fragments were planted is a theory that has come back to life with the debunking of NAA.

C'mon, specifics, y'all!!! Don't gripe if someone else didn't demonstrate something to your satisfaction if you don't know just what it is that will make you satisfied!

The Discovery people are entitled to do any experiments it pleases them to do, but they would have impressed a lot more people if they had used a little bit of logic and included a pistol shot from the knoll instead of a rifle shot. A rifle is much more high-powered than a pistol, so since this is still a free country (until the Socialists take over in January) I feel entitled to point out how naive the Dicovery Channel people are.

It is my impression that the tests were staged to give them the results that they wanted. The high-powered rifle from the GK is a dead giveaway to that. Nobody ever said that LHO fired the fatal headshot from the GK. That, in Gary Mack's language, is what that test proved conclusively.

The use of wind in the SN test was another artifice. It was designed to give them as big a spatter range as possible, to try to emulate Z313.

The dummy heads were not cheap, so they didn't have much room for repeats. However, we still have to wonder if there were additional tests done which they are not discussing because they didn't get the results they were looking for.

Ironically, Bill Kelly, who seems more concerned about the number of threads initiated on this show than the implications of the tests they ran, might do well to assess these tests in terms of the action he wants to pursue against the govt. If all of the accompanying documentation were made available regarding these tests, there could be sufficient impetus gained to move that objective forward, based on the damage inflicted on the dummy head by the M/C from both the GK and the SN positions, not to mention the fact that the SN test challenges the existing drawings, diagrams and x-rays used by the WC and HSCA to represent JFK's head.

Is this the thread on the show or the press release?

There are no implications on the tests they ran, and there is a lot more material available to move the objective foreward than these show and tell games. There's real forensic evidence that will be used in court, not BS like this.

I'd like to know how much this production cost and who the producer was who paid for it?

If there is a serious attempt at forensic analysis of the "target car" then the results should be capable of being introduced into court. Laws were broken when the car and the victim's body were removed from Texas without forensic study and autopsy.

Blood splatter analysis should be used, but also scalp and bullet fragment splatters must be followed.

How did the bullet fragments get to where they were - under the front window trim, in the back seat, hitting the curb by Tague (if it wasn't a full missed bullet)?

And how did a piece of JFK's head fly onto the "target car" trunk as retreived by Jackie O, and how did a huge piece of JFK's skull fly 30 feet behind and to the left to the curb?

And then there's the evaluation of the blood splatter on the motorcycle windshield and face of the motorcycle escort to the left rear of the "target car."

And if these tests conclusively demonstrate that the shots came from the Sixth Floor window of the TSBD, then how do they put Oswald behind the trigger? And if Oswald is the shooter, then there is no question there was a conspiracy because Oswald fits the profile of an operational pawn who wasn't crazy, but part of a covert network.

I would like to see a computerized test developed of a moving target the size of JFK as seen from the perspective of the shooter in the Sixth Floor Sniper's Nest, as seen from the TSBD window.

The head being the bull's eye and the back being a hit, and eleminating everything else including the car and the other passengers from the target, and just move the head and shoulders along as it would be seen by the sniper, both in real vision and with scope.

Then we will have an idea of the skill necessary to do the shot(s).

How about a video game to see who can duplicate the Sixth Floor Sniper?

BK

[Jack White]

It would seem that, in light of the SA/NAA tests, which latter did not apparently fall within the "exact" match of the bullets from the batch CE399, et al., were made from (but theoretically could have come from nearby batches), if we are going to be so specific, and since we want a different rifle to be used, is there anyone here (or anywhere else you can think of) who can suggest exactly what weapon, ammunition, manufacture and batch that we should use to validate the test?

The courts have already determined that Guinn's NAA bullet matching theory is junk science. Bullet lead is not like human DNA, so it is not possible to say what caliber of bullet gave rise to the fragments found in JFK's head or Connally's body.

The theory that 399 and the limo fragments were planted is a theory that has come back to life with the debunking of NAA.

C'mon, specifics, y'all!!! Don't gripe if someone else didn't demonstrate something to your satisfaction if you don't know just what it is that will make you satisfied!

The Discovery people are entitled to do any experiments it pleases them to do, but they would have impressed a lot more people if they had used a little bit of logic and included a pistol shot from the knoll instead of a rifle shot. A rifle is much more high-powered than a pistol, so since this is still a free country (until the Socialists take over in January) I feel entitled to point out how naive the Dicovery Channel people are.

It is my impression that the tests were staged to give them the results that they wanted. The high-powered rifle from the GK is a dead giveaway to that. Nobody ever said that LHO fired the fatal headshot from the GK. That, in Gary Mack's language, is what that test proved conclusively.

The use of wind in the SN test was another artifice. It was designed to give them as big a spatter range as possible, to try to emulate Z313.

The dummy heads were not cheap, so they didn't have much room for repeats. However, we still have to wonder if there were additional tests done which they are not discussing because they didn't get the results they were looking for.

Ironically, Bill Kelly, who seems more concerned about the number of threads initiated on this show than the implications of the tests they ran, might do well to assess these tests in terms of the action he wants to pursue against the govt. If all of the accompanying documentation were made available regarding these tests, there could be sufficient impetus gained to move that objective forward, based on the damage inflicted on the dummy head by the M/C from both the GK and the SN positions, not to mention the fact that the SN test challenges the existing drawings, diagrams and x-rays used by the WC and HSCA to represent JFK's head.

Is this the thread on the show or the press release?

There are no implications on the tests they ran, and there is a lot more material available to move the objective foreward than these show and tell games. There's real forensic evidence that will be used in court, not BS like this.

I'd like to know how much this production cost and who the producer was who paid for it?

If there is a serious attempt at forensic analysis of the "target car" then the results should be capable of being introduced into court. Laws were broken when the car and the victim's body were removed from Texas without forensic study and autopsy.

Blood splatter analysis should be used, but also scalp and bullet fragment splatters must be followed.

How did the bullet fragments get to where they were - under the front window trim, in the back seat, hitting the curb by Tague (if it wasn't a full missed bullet)?

And how did a piece of JFK's head fly onto the "target car" trunk as retreived by Jackie O, and how did a huge piece of JFK's skull fly 30 feet behind and to the left to the curb?

And then there's the evaluation of the blood splatter on the motorcycle windshield and face of the motorcycle escort to the left rear of the "target car."

And if these tests conclusively demonstrate that the shots came from the Sixth Floor window of the TSBD, then how do they put Oswald behind the trigger? And if Oswald is the shooter, then there is no question there was a conspiracy because Oswald fits the profile of an operational pawn who wasn't crazy, but part of a covert network.

I would like to see a computerized test developed of a moving target the size of JFK as seen from the perspective of the shooter in the Sixth Floor Sniper's Nest, as seen from the TSBD window.

The head being the bull's eye and the back being a hit, and eleminating everything else including the car and the other passengers from the target, and just move the head and shoulders along as it would be seen by the sniper, both in real vision and with scope.

Then we will have an idea of the skill necessary to do the shot(s).

How about a video game to see who can duplicate the Sixth Floor Sniper?

BK

The name of the video game is JFK RELOADED.

Google the title to learn more.

Jack

[William Kelly]

It would seem that, in light of the SA/NAA tests, which latter did not apparently fall within the "exact" match of the bullets from the batch CE399, et al., were made from (but theoretically could have come from nearby batches), if we are going to be so specific, and since we want a different rifle to be used, is there anyone here (or anywhere else you can think of) who can suggest exactly what weapon, ammunition, manufacture and batch that we should use to validate the test?

The courts have already determined that Guinn's NAA bullet matching theory is junk science. Bullet lead is not like human DNA, so it is not possible to say what caliber of bullet gave rise to the fragments found in JFK's head or Connally's body.

The theory that 399 and the limo fragments were planted is a theory that has come back to life with the debunking of NAA.

C'mon, specifics, y'all!!! Don't gripe if someone else didn't demonstrate something to your satisfaction if you don't know just what it is that will make you satisfied!

The Discovery people are entitled to do any experiments it pleases them to do, but they would have impressed a lot more people if they had used a little bit of logic and included a pistol shot from the knoll instead of a rifle shot. A rifle is much more high-powered than a pistol, so since this is still a free country (until the Socialists take over in January) I feel entitled to point out how naive the Dicovery Channel people are.

It is my impression that the tests were staged to give them the results that they wanted. The high-powered rifle from the GK is a dead giveaway to that. Nobody ever said that LHO fired the fatal headshot from the GK. That, in Gary Mack's language, is what that test proved conclusively.

The use of wind in the SN test was another artifice. It was designed to give them as big a spatter range as possible, to try to emulate Z313.

The dummy heads were not cheap, so they didn't have much room for repeats. However, we still have to wonder if there were additional tests done which they are not discussing because they didn't get the results they were looking for.

Ironically, Bill Kelly, who seems more concerned about the number of threads initiated on this show than the implications of the tests they ran, might do well to assess these tests in terms of the action he wants to pursue against the govt. If all of the accompanying documentation were made available regarding these tests, there could be sufficient impetus gained to move that objective forward, based on the damage inflicted on the dummy head by the M/C from both the GK and the SN positions, not to mention the fact that the SN test challenges the existing drawings, diagrams and x-rays used by the WC and HSCA to represent JFK's head.

Is this the thread on the show or the press release?

There are no implications on the tests they ran, and there is a lot more material available to move the objective foreward than these show and tell games. There's real forensic evidence that will be used in court, not BS like this.

I'd like to know how much this production cost and who the producer was who paid for it?

If there is a serious attempt at forensic analysis of the "target car" then the results should be capable of being introduced into court. Laws were broken when the car and the victim's body were removed from Texas without forensic study and autopsy.

Blood splatter analysis should be used, but also scalp and bullet fragment splatters must be followed.

How did the bullet fragments get to where they were - under the front window trim, in the back seat, hitting the curb by Tague (if it wasn't a full missed bullet)?

And how did a piece of JFK's head fly onto the "target car" trunk as retreived by Jackie O, and how did a huge piece of JFK's skull fly 30 feet behind and to the left to the curb?

And then there's the evaluation of the blood splatter on the motorcycle windshield and face of the motorcycle escort to the left rear of the "target car."

And if these tests conclusively demonstrate that the shots came from the Sixth Floor window of the TSBD, then how do they put Oswald behind the trigger? And if Oswald is the shooter, then there is no question there was a conspiracy because Oswald fits the profile of an operational pawn who wasn't crazy, but part of a covert network.

I would like to see a computerized test developed of a moving target the size of JFK as seen from the perspective of the shooter in the Sixth Floor Sniper's Nest, as seen from the TSBD window.

The head being the bull's eye and the back being a hit, and eleminating everything else including the car and the other passengers from the target, and just move the head and shoulders along as it would be seen by the sniper, both in real vision and with scope.

Then we will have an idea of the skill necessary to do the shot(s).

How about a video game to see who can duplicate the Sixth Floor Sniper?

BK

The name of the video game is JFK RELOADED.

Google the title to learn more.

Jack

Hey Jack,

That's pretty neat. How did I miss that one for Christmas in 2004?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/jfkreloa...8&mode=news

But their news release has more errors than the Discovery Channel news release on the Target Car.

"The game, JFK Reloaded, offers a single-player experience that casts gamers in the role of convicted assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, who, by most accounts, was the sole sniper who shot and killed President John F. Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963."

The game is laid out much better than Dale Meyers junk, but it should be adaptable and upgraded to make it more usefull as a matrix model for understanding what really happened rather than a game of skill.

Teddy's "despicable" remark was also applied to the Sixth Floor when they put in the live web cam from the sniper's nest, and that doesn't seem so despickaple now.

There are arcade games that have life-size rifles shooting into a gameboard, that could include the necessity of ejecting the shells, but just lining up the target and pushing the trigger makes it difficult enough.

There's an idiot radio talk show host, Dennis Prager, who recently talked about his trip to Dallas and visit to the Sixth Floor and he ragged on an on about how easy a shot like that was, and offered to take such a shooting test to prove it, if one could be devised.

I'd like to take him up on that bet.

Looking forward to hearing from Gary Mack on this, as I am dissapointed that he seems to think that the Discovery program came up with something new and important.

BK

By Curt Feldman, GameSpotPosted Nov 22, 2004 6:19 pm PT Putting gamers in the role of Lee Harvey Oswald has put the game's makers in the hot seat.

The game's developer is calling it a "docu-game," but most of the press surrounding the release of the $9.95 downloadable game from Scottish developer and publisher Traffic Management is calling it utterly bad taste.

The game, JFK Reloaded, offers a single-player experience that casts gamers in the role of convicted assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, who, by most accounts, was the sole sniper who shot and killed President John F. Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Reacting to news of the game, a spokesman for John F. Kennedy's only living brother, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, called the game "despicable."

The developer said in a statement that it took a "10-man team seven months to research and six months to program an accurate re-creation of the surroundings and events of November 22, 1963. ... Painstakingly detailed, the reconstruction enables players to examine the challenges that faced Oswald and determine on their own if he was, in fact, the only shooter on that fateful day."

Sen. Kennedy's spokesman, David Smith, told the Associated Press he had no comment on whether the senator's family intended to block sales of the game. Apparently, the game does not carry an ESRB rating.

Edited November 19, 2008 by William Kelly

[Pamela Brown]

It would seem that, in light of the SA/NAA tests, which latter did not apparently fall within the "exact" match of the bullets from the batch CE399, et al., were made from (but theoretically could have come from nearby batches), if we are going to be so specific, and since we want a different rifle to be used, is there anyone here (or anywhere else you can think of) who can suggest exactly what weapon, ammunition, manufacture and batch that we should use to validate the test?

The courts have already determined that Guinn's NAA bullet matching theory is junk science. Bullet lead is not like human DNA, so it is not possible to say what caliber of bullet gave rise to the fragments found in JFK's head or Connally's body.

The theory that 399 and the limo fragments were planted is a theory that has come back to life with the debunking of NAA.

C'mon, specifics, y'all!!! Don't gripe if someone else didn't demonstrate something to your satisfaction if you don't know just what it is that will make you satisfied!

The Discovery people are entitled to do any experiments it pleases them to do, but they would have impressed a lot more people if they had used a little bit of logic and included a pistol shot from the knoll instead of a rifle shot. A rifle is much more high-powered than a pistol, so since this is still a free country (until the Socialists take over in January) I feel entitled to point out how naive the Dicovery Channel people are.

It is my impression that the tests were staged to give them the results that they wanted. The high-powered rifle from the GK is a dead giveaway to that. Nobody ever said that LHO fired the fatal headshot from the GK. That, in Gary Mack's language, is what that test proved conclusively.

The use of wind in the SN test was another artifice. It was designed to give them as big a spatter range as possible, to try to emulate Z313.

The dummy heads were not cheap, so they didn't have much room for repeats. However, we still have to wonder if there were additional tests done which they are not discussing because they didn't get the results they were looking for.

Ironically, Bill Kelly, who seems more concerned about the number of threads initiated on this show than the implications of the tests they ran, might do well to assess these tests in terms of the action he wants to pursue against the govt. If all of the accompanying documentation were made available regarding these tests, there could be sufficient impetus gained to move that objective forward, based on the damage inflicted on the dummy head by the M/C from both the GK and the SN positions, not to mention the fact that the SN test challenges the existing drawings, diagrams and x-rays used by the WC and HSCA to represent JFK's head.

Is this the thread on the show or the press release?

There are no implications on the tests they ran, and there is a lot more material available to move the objective foreward than these show and tell games. There's real forensic evidence that will be used in court, not BS like this.

I'd like to know how much this production cost and who the producer was who paid for it?

If there is a serious attempt at forensic analysis of the "target car" then the results should be capable of being introduced into court. Laws were broken when the car and the victim's body were removed from Texas without forensic study and autopsy.

Blood splatter analysis should be used, but also scalp and bullet fragment splatters must be followed.

How did the bullet fragments get to where they were - under the front window trim, in the back seat, hitting the curb by Tague (if it wasn't a full missed bullet)?

And how did a piece of JFK's head fly onto the "target car" trunk as retreived by Jackie O, and how did a huge piece of JFK's skull fly 30 feet behind and to the left to the curb?

And then there's the evaluation of the blood splatter on the motorcycle windshield and face of the motorcycle escort to the left rear of the "target car."

And if these tests conclusively demonstrate that the shots came from the Sixth Floor window of the TSBD, then how do they put Oswald behind the trigger? And if Oswald is the shooter, then there is no question there was a conspiracy because Oswald fits the profile of an operational pawn who wasn't crazy, but part of a covert network.

I would like to see a computerized test developed of a moving target the size of JFK as seen from the perspective of the shooter in the Sixth Floor Sniper's Nest, as seen from the TSBD window.

The head being the bull's eye and the back being a hit, and eleminating everything else including the car and the other passengers from the target, and just move the head and shoulders along as it would be seen by the sniper, both in real vision and with scope.

Then we will have an idea of the skill necessary to do the shot(s).

How about a video game to see who can duplicate the Sixth Floor Sniper?

BK

This was the thread on the press release. My hope was that we could track this offering of the ongoing coverup here on the internet, and on tv, through the events of the anniversary, where undoubtedly Gary Mack will be popping up on various news programs with his theory about the tests. Curious to see just who else (beside NBC/MSNBC) will blindly try to help him hype the tests.

The program was developed by Creative Differences in LA; Robert Erickson, who did the other programs in this JFK group, was the on-site producer. There was another producer in LA; Erik, I think. The budget was quite sizeable -- the heads cost about $50K each, and so on. Having the team traveled to Dearborn, MI, Dallas, Adelaide too I believe, and ended up doing the test outside of LA.

The show was done per the specs of the Discovery Channel, who approved their budget as well as the development of the show. It is only natural that DC wanted something new and exciting in the show. The test initially seemed like a great idea, with the possibility of generating new information. At the same time, it was risky, because those involved were staring into the abyss that is the myth of the WCR.

Many times they must have butted up against the differences between, say, HSCA and WC information, not to mention the Z-film and everything else. I believe they stood on the edge of accomplishing something meaningful; but then capitulated, rather than charging ahead fearlessly. It is my impression that this happened after Gary Mack became closely involved. The focus of the test seemed to change from something somewhat objective to something to devastate the CT's. I do believe there is valuable information in the tests; just not what anyone anticipated. Claiming they had re-done the WCR may have been the intent from the start, and I may have just been too naive to realize it.

I agree that the show focused on only the blood spatter rather than all of the evidence. A valid question might be "how did they manage to claim they duplicated the spatter in Z313 when they failed to duplicate the positioning in Z312? But I imagine that would go right over their heads.

Another factor may be the Harper fragment, which they seemed to feature. That was found the following day, so how can anyone say for sure where it landed?

Agreed, nothing is said about conspiracy in this show; nothing is demonstrated. I find Gary Mack's claims on that level to be illogical. The tests are about the effect of an M/C from different positions. Based on what the show discussed, anyone could have pulled the trigger. (Of course, nobody saw LHO with the M/C after his return to Dallas. And no test was done on the M/C to prove it had ever been fired.) That Gary is pushing the 'no conspiracy' idea causes us to ask if he thinks everyone is just supposed to blindly follow the lead of a false piper, without logic or reason?

Edited November 20, 2008 by Pamela McElwain-Brown

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JFK: INSIDE THE TARGET CAR (DISCOVERY CHANNEL)

November 16, 2008

Reviewed by David W. Mantik, MD, PhD

Subject: Another attempted reenactment of the JFK murder

Protagonists: Gary Mack, Adelaide T&E Systems, two JFK witnesses, two

forensic experts, and a marksman (Michael Yardley)

Evidence analyzed: blood spatter patterns

Intrinsic assumptions:

a single shot hit JFK in the head

this shot struck at Zapruder frame 313

the limousine traveled at 7-8.5 mph at this instant

this shot entered at the posterior head site selected by the HSCA (not the Warren Commission site)

the Zapruder film has not been altered

the only examined shooting sites were

the sixth floor window

the grassy knoll

Outside the domain of this experiment:

a head shot from anywhere else

any shots to JFK's body or to John Connally

any shots that missed

a second head shot

other evidence in the case

Implicit and Explicit Conclusions (of the Discovery Channel):

JFK was hit only once in the head (from the rear)

this shot came from the sixth floor window

Oswald fired this shot

the Warren Commission got it right

A Brief Summary of What They Did

The narrator begins by implying that the program will prove that the Warren Commission (WC) was correct, i.e., that a lone gunman did it, with the clear insinuation that Oswald was the man. (Of course, that's logically impossible: Oswald was not firing at the test site. No shooting at a range could ever determine who fired at JFK.)

In my view, the most that this experiment can claim is a truly simple conclusion: the blood spatter pattern matched a posterior head shot. Also in my view, hardly any serious critic of the WC would disagree with this conclusion, especially not anyone who has examined JFK's skull X-rays. (I have long agreed that no grassy knoll shot hit JFK.) Once this simple statement is accepted, the program can only follow a downhill trajectory, which it promptly proceeds to do.

Mack and Michael Yardley, the designated marksman, first inspected three candidate sites in Dealey Plaza for frontal gunmen. The grassy knoll on the south side was ruled out because only two to three inches of JFK's head were visible above the windshield. (They had positioned a similar vehicle with riders at the supposed kill site on Elm St.) The south side of the overpass was next eliminated because the shot would have pierced the windshield. (But no one mentioned the multiple eyewitnesses who reported that the windshield had been completely pierced or the Ford Motor Company employee who said he received the windshield at the Ford plant with just such a hole.)

The north side of the overpass (the same side as the traditional grassy knoll) was greeted with genuine interest by the marksman: “Not a difficult shot. I would keep an open mind on this position.” Mack's sole objection to this site was that eyewitnesses would have seen such a shooter. (See my comments below on that.) Not surprisingly, that is the last we hear of this site.

With guidance from that man for all seasons (Gary Mack), Adelaide T & E Systems constructed a JFK crash test dummy, including head and torso, with a connecting neck. By their report, this yielded an accurate anatomic replica of the biological tissues of the head.

Under Mack's guidance, a stationary limousine mock-up was positioned on a shooting range in Sylmar, California, to match the conditions of Elm St. Even a huge fan was employed to simulate a 25 mph breeze. This was intended to take into account a head wind of 15-20 mph, superimposed on a limousine speed of 7-8.5 mph. The dummy was inserted to mimic JFK's position and orientation.

For the traditional grassy knoll shot (while in Dealey Plaza), Yardley had noted that it was a possible shot, i.e., there was just enough time to track the limousine. At the Sylmar range, Yardley fired two shots, the first with a soft point round (a Winchester). This bullet exploded the entire skull. On the other hand, a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet (full metal jacket) created a large exit hole on the left side of the skull, leaving the rest of the skull largely intact. The program notes that Jackie would have been struck by such a bullet. They conclude, therefore, that no grassy knoll shot was fired. (That it might merely have missed was not entertained at this point, though Mack finally mentions that option near the end of the program.)

For the posterior head shot, Mack marked the target site on the skull. Oddly enough, despite all of the incessant homage paid to the WC throughout the show, Mack did not choose the WC site. Instead he chose the site selected by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), which is much higher. This higher site was quite adamantly denounced by the pathologists. (Of course, no one on the program commented on either of these paradoxes.) The simulated posterior shot blows off the top right of the skull and widely scatters debris. Some even falls on the front of the windshield and a large chunk falls on the trunk. Simulated brain seems to scatter widely around the limousine interior, though I actually saw little on the inside of the right rear door or on the back of the right front seat—the two sites that the show emphasizes as prominent blood scatter sites in real limousine. (Of course, no one notices that the head snap is absent at the shooting range—on what was supposedly the best model used to date.)

Two JFK witnesses (who had observed the actual limousine) viewed this test evidence (in photographs) and agreed that the spatter pattern matched what they had seen on November 22, 1963. (It would have been truly admirable if they had first been shown a wrong blood spatter pattern, just to see how flexible they were; curiously, the experiment shows debris going in nearly all directions; it is therefore not at all clear just how a wrong pattern would look.) Photos of the limousine in the garage in Washington, DC, just after midnight, are then shown. Blood stains are chiefly seen on the seat; the narrator admits that blood spatter evidence is hard to see in these images. (Of course, that means that the two eye witnesses now become the sine qua non in the key argument of the entire program. If their recollections are mistaken, the total show collapses.)

Two forensic experts are then invited to view the simulated blood spatter evidence in the mock-up. During the time interval that they agree that the spatter pattern indicates a shot from the rear, the graphics extend a trajectory to an image of the sixth floor window—even though the experts say nothing about this. The experts then identify a hole in the dashboard, in front of the driver's seat. (That bullet would have passed through the body of the driver, but no one comments on this. Likewise, no one asks about the appearance of the bullet after the shooting.) The forensic experts then suggest that the bullet's path could, in principle, be traced backward in a straight line through this dashboard hole and the entry in JFK's head. (I would note that the trajectory would have been different for the actual WC entry site, i.e., the one that Mack did not choose. Of course, that was all left unsaid.) And no one questions whether the bullet might have been diverted from a straight line by its impact with the skull. Mack then asks if they could reach this same conclusion without the hole in the dashboard. The experts merely reply that the forward scattering of debris is consistent with a shot from the rear. Neither of them ever mentions the sixth floor window, or Oswald for that matter, despite the overlying graphics.

The narrator concludes that the WC was right all along—it was Oswald from the sixth floor window. In fact this implication recurs with clocklike regularity throughout the program—amazingly, even before the experiment is shown. Gary Mack's final comment, though, was a surprising hedge: “…the shot that killed President Kennedy…did come from behind and apparently [emphasis added] from the sixth floor window….” Mack also adds a totally gratuitous comment that does not follow from this specific experiment: “I haven't seen anything that counters the official story—that Kennedy was shot from behind from above.”

A Brief Summary of What They Did Not Do

Their chief oversight was not to think. Such incompetence must be laid at the feet of the producer/director, Robert Erickson, and perhaps Gary Mack, since he appears to have served as expert consultant. After all, Mack seems to direct the project while on film and he feels free to offer unwarranted comments, which were not excised.

Though the casual viewer might be tempted to think otherwise after viewing this program, none of these statements were proven in this program:

(1) A shot came from the sixth floor window.

(2) Oswald fired this shot.

(3) There was only one head shot.

(4) There was no shot from the grassy knoll (i.e., a missed shot).

(5) No other shots missed.

(6) The windshield remained intact (i.e., no piercing shot).

(7) The Zapruder film is reliable.

(8) The limousine did not halt at the fatal moment.

(9) A shot from the north overpass (the storm drain site) was excluded.

(10) Only one shot hit JFK in the body (below the head).

As we have noted above, despite the apparent care to achieve an accurate simulation, the targeted site on the posterior head (chosen by Mack) was not the WC's site. If the WC site is ignored, how then can anything be concluded about the WC? The narrators served their own purposes well to avoid that entire quagmire.

The radical disagreement (between the WC and the HSCA) about the entry site of the posterior head shot—as well as the pathologists' vehement disagreement with the HSCA (whose entry site Mack chose)—is totally ignored in the program. Furthermore, no one cites any of the numerous Parkland physicians who actually viewed JFK's head; none of these specialists reported the entry site that Mack chose. (Their often-handwritten reports are still easily accessible in the Warren Report). In fact, and this is truly beyond belief, no one who saw JFK's actual head (not merely photos of it) ever reported seeing the site that Mack chose. Even the pathologists agreed with that conclusion. Finally, there is Lattimer's shooting experiment with an authentic human skull, which yielded quite a different result from this program—but he targeted the WC site (see Gary Aguilar's discussion and figure in Murder in Dealey Plaza, p. 185).

The program cites Hargis, a motorcycle man, as struck by debris. What is not noted, however, is that he was struck so hard that he thought it was a bullet. Moreover, the follow-up car (the Secret Service car) also collected a great deal of debris; that is also ignored. Both of these facts are, of course, arguments for a second head shot—but from the front.

The matter of the second head shot is really the chief issue in this entire discussion. That issue has been extensively discussed elsewhere (see my prior essays in Fetzer's books) but, of course, was never addressed in this program. The reader should sift through the astonishing compendium of evidence that supports such a second shot, even including eyewitnesses, maps, tables, and documents in the WC itself. Newsweek (22 November 1993, pp. 74-75) even published a photograph of Dealey Plaza (from WC data) that showed quite a different site on Elm St for the fatal head shot. In my view, that location is likely where the second head shot hit JFK—much closer to the storm drain.

The best location for the origin of this second head shot is the storm drain on the north side of the overpass. It was possible for a shooter to stand well inside this drain, even to park a vehicle over the drain, and for the gunman to fire between the slats in the wooden fence. Because of the way the fence was (and still is) angled at this point, it would have been difficult for anyone actually on the grassy knoll, or on the overpass, to see any activity in the storm drain, which is quite contrary to Mack's statement. In fact, that was my biggest surprise when I first visited this site: I felt quite alone, totally invisible to persons on the knoll or on the overpass. It was even possible then to crawl for a long distance through the drain and emerge far away in a river bed. Quite extraordinarily, photographs taken immediately after the assassination show a large crowd at precisely this site, including Robert MacNeil. My own observations of the skull X-rays had suggested to me a shot from about this direction—and that was before I discovered this photograph with MacNeil.

The final irony of this Discovery program is the reliance placed on eyewitnesses—there are just two and it is, after all, 45 years later. Of course, the program had no choice: because the Secret Service bucket brigade had done its job so well at Parkland Hospital, the program could present no objective evidence of blood spatter from the actual crime scene. On the other hand, WC critics (even including some who are not conspiracy theorists) often rely on the statements of eyewitnesses made immediately after the event—especially when virtually all agree. The limousine stop at about frame 313 is the best example of this. However, lone gunman theorists repeatedly remind us that eyewitnesses cannot be trusted and that their comments should simply be ignored. Now that the shoe has shifted, will anyone notice?

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Reflections on "JFK: Inside the Target Car"

(1) It assumes the film is authentic. In that case, the simulations

ought to include the "back and to the left" motion seen in the film.

Instead, they cut off the showing of the film at frame 313, so it is

never seen by the audience.

(2) None of the witnesses in Dealey Plaza reported seeing the "back

and to the left" motion, which is another proof that the film is not

authentic. Mack mentions that it is not part of the reconstruction in

passing, as though it were insignificant.

(3) The simulation does include brains and gore bulging out toward the

front, which is also seen in frames after 313. But Roderick Ryan, an

expert in special effects, told Noel Twyman that they had been painted

in and are not authentic, an observation that has been confirmed by

David W. Mantik's study of the medical evidence.

(4) No witness, including Jackie, reported brains and gore bulging out

toward the front. More than forty, including Jackie, reported a

massive defect to the back of his head, where his brains had been blow

out to the left rear.

(5) The blood spray was also shown as it appears in frame 313, but

Roderick Ryan also observed that, it too, had been painted in, an

observation that has been confirmed by John Costella's study of the

film and the dissipation of the spray.

(6) The first frontal shot location to the far south side of the TUP

was not a suitable location for a shot, in the judgment of the

designated shooter. But no one I know has ever suggested that

location was one of the actual firing locations.

(7) The second location in the vicinity of the south side above-ground

sewer was thought to be a suitable location for a shot, but he said he

would have to shoot through the windshield. So they moved to the

north side without taking a shot.

(8) But, as Mack must know, the shot to JFK's throat appears to have

been fired through the windshield from this very location. See, for

example, the study by Doug Weldon in MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA.

(9) The third location in the vicinity of the north side above-ground

sewer is currently inaccessible, so they moved forward. The shooter

said it was a good site for a shot, but Mack overruled him, claiming

witnesses would have heard it but didn't. So no shot was taken from

here, either.

(10) The shooter said that Mack should not take for granted that a

shot did not come from this location, since there had to have been

many distractions. The study by David W. Mantik in MURDER

substantiates this as the most probable location. For the second

time, no shot was fired from a probable shooting location.

(11) They moved to the picket fence and fired a shot from there, which

Mack said would have killed Jackie. The shooter said that showed

there was no shot from the picket fence, but Mack added, "unless he

missed", which is also what I and others also take to have been the

case.

(12) Then they tried from the "assassin's lair" on the 6th floor

and--guess what?--everything worked out, thereby "confirming" the

official account. And they corroborated it with an analysis of the

blood spray as consistent with a shot from that location. Except, of

course, the brains and gore bulging out toward the front and the blood

spray in the film were special effects.

This is an excellent example of the method of "selection and

elimination"--selecting the evidence that agrees with a predetermined

conclusion and eliminating the rest. It was just too risky to even

try shots from the north and south sewer openings, which the shooter

thought were "doable", but Mack could not take the chance of lending

any weight to the best supported analysis of the shot sequence. So he

finessed them.

Jim

Edited November 20, 2008 by James H. Fetzer

[Chris Davidson]

What they didn't show.

If it wasn't mentioned previously.

chris

[Pamela Brown]

Thanks, Jack.

That confirms they did at least one test they didn't put into the show. The clip is no longer available; no surprise.

Based on this unauthorized clip that briefly appeared at youtube we can confirm that there were at least four tests done using four heads. The test that was left out showed very little damage to the head, not inconsistent with that shown in the x-rays and photographs.

It also only makes sense that they would have done pre-tests of some sort, perhaps using watermelons, or something else inexpensive (the heads were supposedly 50K apiece). That would have given them additional information regarding the general effect of shots from the different positions using different types of firearms.

Therefore, whatever was put into the final program would have been only what they wanted the viewers to see, not all the information they had.

Here is a bit of the 4th shot test from the DC News site:

http://dsc.discovery.com/video/player.html...leId=2932239001

Edited November 21, 2008 by Pamela McElwain-Brown

[Wade Rhodes]

Wow a fourth test was done...Gary Mack answers these questions here -

http://blogs.discovery.com/jfk/2008/11/gary-mack-answe.html

Edited November 21, 2008 by Wade Rhodes

[Pamela Brown]

We know there were at least four tests done. They should have done a test from the GK with a handgun. In addition, they should have done preliminary tests to give them an idea of how the different angles worked and to prepare for possible problems when they used the very expensive heads.

The results of the fourth test are at least, if not more, interesting than those of the other tests, as the headwound at least bore some resemblance to that shown on the x-rays and autopsy photos. This is the test that might have leant some small credence to a shot from the rear. Why, then, was it left 'on the cutting room floor'? Apparently because the shooter hit an 'incorrect' point of entrance? But who knows exactly where the entrance was? Isn't that is something still open to debate? Is this just Mack-speak for 'we didn't want to open that Pandora's box'?

Here is the DC's link:

What else was left on the cutting room floor or worse, has disappeared into a black hole?

Did anyone capture a copy or stills of the fourth shot clip in its brief appearance at youtube?

Edited November 21, 2008 by Pamela McElwain-Brown

[Pamela Brown]

Gary Mack's statements in the Q&A on TTC are worth some objective scrutiny as they show how he minimizes issues that are really significant, such as the acknowledged 4th head test which he calls a 'missed shot' and the fact that the neck on the dummy was rigid, thus forcing only an approximation of what actually happened. Notice how he sidesteps the issues of where the bullet(s) went -- hint -- they tore through the car! He manages to tiptoe between the raindrops and seems to expect everyone to allow him to do that:

Q: Why didn’t your test include Kennedy being knocked back and to the left as seen in the film?

A: That movement, which is so obvious in the Zapruder film, was a separate response. We only tested the initial effect of the bullet striking the skull and where the blood spatter went. For test-to-test consistency, it was important to have the heads mounted in the exact same position each time, so we mounted them on a rigid platform.

Q: I noticed that Jackie Kennedy was not in the right position with regard to Kennedy in your Dealey Plaza test.

A: She wasn’t and we didn’t catch it at the time. At the moment of the fatal shot, Jackie’s head was in front of JFK, whereas our actor’s head was behind him. However, that error had no bearing on the purpose of the recreation in Dallas. The only actor who needed to be seated correctly was JFK, and he was perfectly placed. After all, we were only trying to show whether or not a sharpshooter could see his target -- Kennedy -- from the various locations.

Q: You said you had four target skulls, but I only saw three of them being shot. What happened to the missing target?

A: The “cutting room floor,” as they say, removed for time and clarity by Discovery. Their decision was reasonable, as there wasn’t enough time to include everything. The show’s producers and I very much wanted the scene to be shown; for that reason, it will be included in the DVD release of the show. But you can also see it below, as posted to YouTube or you click the hyperlink to see it on the Discovery Channel News site. For that shot, fired from behind, Michael missed the spot on the skull slightly, resulting in damage on the right side of the skull. Nevertheless, the blood spray pattern was very similar to the second attempt from our Depository window.

Q: So what happened to the bullets you fired? Were they examined after the shots?

A: Michael Yardley fired four times, but only one bullet was recovered. One bullet, of course, fragmented as it was designed to do. Two of the other three were never found. The two bullets fired from behind went through the target and continued through the mock limousine and struck the ground. One went off down the gun range and the other lodged under the tire of the wind machine. It was significantly deformed, but that could have happened when it struck the ground first.

Q: So the bullets that hit the head did not fragment like Oswald’s did?

A: No, and that was quite a surprise. Carcano bullets are military, metal jacketed bullets designed not to fragment upon impact. Oswald’s did, but ours did not. We do not know why that happened.

Q: Why did you choose such odd colors for the brain interior?

A: We did not want to use red, since that would have been rather gross to watch. And we couldn’t use a clear liquid since that wouldn’t show up on camera. For best visibility on television, we used bold colors that were easy to see. The HD version of the show has clearer images than the regular TV version.

Q: Why did you use a Mannlicher Carcano rifle for the grassy knoll shot? Wouldn’t a gunman there use something smaller or less noisy?

A: As mentioned by our narrator, we could have used almost anything, since we were dealing with a hypothetical situation. We decided on an identical rifle to Oswald’s because, if he had been framed for the assassination (Oswald claimed he was “a patsy”), it seems likely that another gunman would use the same ammunition. If a different weapon were used, investigators would find that evidence and conclude there were two guns. A conspiracy to frame Oswald would want investigators to think there was only one gun.

Q: How do you really know the wind was blowing straight at the car? I know you referenced the weather bureau data, but maybe the wind gusts came at an angle?

A: A home movie by Marie Muchmore, taken from the other side of the street from Zapruder, shows the moment of the fatal head shot. Eyewitness Jean Hill appears near the limousine and her coat is blown directly to her right, thus indicating the precise direction of the wind at that moment in time.

Q: I noticed that your depository shot severely damaged the top right of the target skull, but that’s not what happened to Kennedy. Why the difference?

A: Although our test shot struck very, very close to the actual bullet entry hole, no such test can be absolutely exact. What’s more important is the effect of the bullet and whether or not the blood spatter matches the film of the actual shooting or not.

Q: Why did you ignore the "magic bullet theory" that Kennedy and Connally were both wounded by one bullet?

A: We tackled that theory in the third of four Unsolved History programs for the Discovery Channel. In that program, Beyond the Magic Bullet, the producers concluded that the "magic bullet" was possible, though the results may not have been as conclusive as the test in "JFK: Inside

http://blogs.discovery.com/jfk/2008/11/gary-mack-answe.html

[Wade Rhodes]

"Q: So the bullets that hit the head did not fragment like Oswald’s did?

A: No, and that was quite a surprise. Carcano bullets are military, metal jacketed bullets designed not to fragment upon impact. Oswald’s did, but ours did not. We do not know why that happened."

[Pat Speer]

Wow a fourth test was done...Gary Mack answers these questions here -

http://blogs.discovery.com/jfk/2008/11/gary-mack-answe.html

Thanks Wade. I just took a look...and the test confirms EVERYTHING I've been saying. The explosion of bone from this tangential shot re-produces Z-313, almost exactly. The beveling of bone seen on the simulated head is a keyhole entry, and matches the beveling on the Harper fragment almost exactly. There can be no doubt now that the bullet hitting Kennedy at 313 was a tangential shot impacting at the supposed exit location. Dr. Clark was right.

[Pamela Brown]

"Q: So the bullets that hit the head did not fragment like Oswald’s did?

A: No, and that was quite a surprise. Carcano bullets are military, metal jacketed bullets designed not to fragment upon impact. Oswald’s did, but ours did not. We do not know why that happened."

And that result, of course, should have opened the door to the question 'what kind of bullet would have fragmented'?

[Pamela Brown]

Wow a fourth test was done...Gary Mack answers these questions here -

http://blogs.discovery.com/jfk/2008/11/gary-mack-answe.html

Thanks Wade. I just took a look...and the test confirms EVERYTHING I've been saying. The explosion of bone from this tangential shot re-produces Z-313, almost exactly. The beveling of bone seen on the simulated head is a keyhole entry, and matches the beveling on the Harper fragment almost exactly. There can be no doubt now that the bullet hitting Kennedy at 313 was a tangential shot impacting at the supposed exit location. Dr. Clark was right.

Wait just a moment, Pat. Did you not notice that there is actual no point of entry? That conflicts with the existing WC drawings, not to mention the x-rays and autopsy photos, doesn't it?

Also, did you happen to notice that the dummy head was not in the Z312 position? That then opens the door to the question, 'if the head were in the Z312 position and the results were that shown in this clip, where did that shot come from'?

A third question might be to ask why, since we know the DC and Gary Mack have shamelessly cherrypicked and misrepresented information in order to suit their agenda, would they not feature this test prominently in their show instead of attempting to minimize it?

Edited November 21, 2008 by Pamela McElwain-Brown