SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS: Truth or Obfuscation?

Jack White · January 16, 2010

Nobody know what the "Dallas" windshield looked like. It was used as a template to make

a replacement windshield and numerous duplicates for the SS.

Oh, I forgot. You do not believe witnesses.

Jack

Doug Weldon · January 16, 2010

Hello Martin!
Thanks for being so patient. Analog life has been putting a serious dent in my cyber time.

John Hunt communicated with Josiah. I don't think there was a published formal study but Tink would know for sure.

Later on I contacted John because I had the same questions about the HSCA photos. He told me that to his knowledge the photos he used weren't published anywhere. That he had gone to the National Archives and scanned the photos there in the HSCA holdings. He also generously provided me with some additional, more detailed scans that I'd be happy to share with you. You're right. They're nothing like the HSCA photos at Mary Ferrell in terms of detail and quality. I could not tell just by looking at the scans if they are simply much better scans of the HSCA photos seen at MF or if they are scans of photos that aren't available online but in the HSCA archives. Also, on line, I am unable to locate any information about the details of the photo shoot. Time/conditions/who...? That's one of the reasons why I put additional windshield work on hold until I could get to the Archives and sort some of this out for myself.

Another reason I wanted to get to the Archives before proceeding was important information from Tony Marsh. The FBI image of the windshield crack that everyone is using is a print that Mr. Marsh had made from a copy negative he obtained from the Archives. Mr. Marsh made it clear that the appearance of the cracks changed depending on the exposure settings he selected for his prints and that the print that's in general circulation represents a version of how the cracks looked but not the only possible version. He also could not recall if the copy negative from the Archives was a copy of a print or a copy of a negative.

In fact, I decided that more work at the Archives was necessary because of something you discovered! As you know, the Archives has periodically re-photographed the windshield. Some of those photos are at Mary Ferrell and the amazing Robin Unger brought them to general attention at his photo archive on Duncan's site. As you remember, there was something odd about those photos, they seem to be split and then re-pieced together. It was you that noticed the cracks and shadows had changed because different parts of the windshield were backed by different materials. The fact that the shadows and cracks changed so much just because a different backing was used made me realize that one had to be very, very careful in comparing photos and reaching conclusions about the windshield. Therefore my resolution to get to the Archives and try to sort out the photographic record.

I hope this helps - perhaps a good excuse to get you to Washington?

My very best to you,

Jerry

Hi Jerry.
I like to ask you a couple of questions before i went into detail regarding my improved windshield crack study.

It has been said in your/Barb and Josiah's article that:

John Hunt, working from photos he obtained in the Archives, has come up with an ingenious but simple proof that the “windshield switch theory” is wrong. He compared Frazier’s photo of the windshield taken in the wee hours of November 23rd with a later photo of the windshield taken by the HSCA circa 1978:
As Hunt points out, “cracks don’t go away.” If cracks were present in the windshield when photographed by Frazier on November 23rd while the windshield was still attached to the limousine and those cracks are not present in the HSCA windshield in 1978, then we are dealing with two different pieces of evidence. However, the photos show a marked similarity in the position and number of the cracks. The photos indicate that the two windshields are the same and that the Lifton/Fetzer “windshield switch theory” is wrong.

Can you, or anyone else guide me to the original article from John Hunt's windshield study?

I can't find it here nor on Lancer or Google. Is it hidden in alt.assassination groups?

What i like to see is the whole expert's report from John Hunt about this ingenious but simple proof .

Another question i have is.......what is the source of this photograph taken ca. 1978 for the HSCA:

Ok, i can't find it in my files nor on any other online source (Mary Ferrell).

Who made it and for what purpose?

Thank you forward.

As i said, every help is much appreciated.

Martin

Jerry:

I want to understand your point. Are you stating that John Hunt's analysis in your article and that a comparison of the windshield photos is now unreliable? Though I don't believe the first photo is of the Dallas windshield, if these windshields are not the same it would represent conclusive evidence that a shell game was being played. I hope you or Barb will get an opportunity to reply to my previous post. p.21.

My best,

Doug Weldon

Hello Doug,

Yes, that's correct. Right now, I don't think any windshield comparison can be conclusive including Hunt's. If we can gather better data at the Archives it might be possible, but right now I'm certain that we really don't know exactly what it is we're trying to compare. I'll try to look up your post - do you have the post #?

Why do you think the FBI photo is not of the Dallas windshield. Because it doesn't have a hole in it?

Best to you,

Jerry

Jerry:

It is posts #305 , 308 and 314. Things move so fast here it is often difficult to keep up and it sounds like you have been busy. My problem with the FBI photo is that it cannot be authenticated. I hope you get a chance to view my you-tube presentation. It demonstrates the efforts to mask the Altgen's windshield in the area of the spiral nebulae.

My best,

Doug Weldon

Jerry Logan · January 16, 2010

Hello Martin!
Thanks for being so patient. Analog life has been putting a serious dent in my cyber time.

John Hunt communicated with Josiah. I don't think there was a published formal study but Tink would know for sure.

Later on I contacted John because I had the same questions about the HSCA photos. He told me that to his knowledge the photos he used weren't published anywhere. That he had gone to the National Archives and scanned the photos there in the HSCA holdings. He also generously provided me with some additional, more detailed scans that I'd be happy to share with you. You're right. They're nothing like the HSCA photos at Mary Ferrell in terms of detail and quality. I could not tell just by looking at the scans if they are simply much better scans of the HSCA photos seen at MF or if they are scans of photos that aren't available online but in the HSCA archives. Also, on line, I am unable to locate any information about the details of the photo shoot. Time/conditions/who...? That's one of the reasons why I put additional windshield work on hold until I could get to the Archives and sort some of this out for myself.

Another reason I wanted to get to the Archives before proceeding was important information from Tony Marsh. The FBI image of the windshield crack that everyone is using is a print that Mr. Marsh had made from a copy negative he obtained from the Archives. Mr. Marsh made it clear that the appearance of the cracks changed depending on the exposure settings he selected for his prints and that the print that's in general circulation represents a version of how the cracks looked but not the only possible version. He also could not recall if the copy negative from the Archives was a copy of a print or a copy of a negative.

In fact, I decided that more work at the Archives was necessary because of something you discovered! As you know, the Archives has periodically re-photographed the windshield. Some of those photos are at Mary Ferrell and the amazing Robin Unger brought them to general attention at his photo archive on Duncan's site. As you remember, there was something odd about those photos, they seem to be split and then re-pieced together. It was you that noticed the cracks and shadows had changed because different parts of the windshield were backed by different materials. The fact that the shadows and cracks changed so much just because a different backing was used made me realize that one had to be very, very careful in comparing photos and reaching conclusions about the windshield. Therefore my resolution to get to the Archives and try to sort out the photographic record.

I hope this helps - perhaps a good excuse to get you to Washington?

My very best to you,

Jerry

Hi Jerry.
I like to ask you a couple of questions before i went into detail regarding my improved windshield crack study.

It has been said in your/Barb and Josiah's article that:

John Hunt, working from photos he obtained in the Archives, has come up with an ingenious but simple proof that the “windshield switch theory” is wrong. He compared Frazier’s photo of the windshield taken in the wee hours of November 23rd with a later photo of the windshield taken by the HSCA circa 1978:
As Hunt points out, “cracks don’t go away.” If cracks were present in the windshield when photographed by Frazier on November 23rd while the windshield was still attached to the limousine and those cracks are not present in the HSCA windshield in 1978, then we are dealing with two different pieces of evidence. However, the photos show a marked similarity in the position and number of the cracks. The photos indicate that the two windshields are the same and that the Lifton/Fetzer “windshield switch theory” is wrong.

Can you, or anyone else guide me to the original article from John Hunt's windshield study?

I can't find it here nor on Lancer or Google. Is it hidden in alt.assassination groups?

What i like to see is the whole expert's report from John Hunt about this ingenious but simple proof .

Another question i have is.......what is the source of this photograph taken ca. 1978 for the HSCA:

Ok, i can't find it in my files nor on any other online source (Mary Ferrell).

Who made it and for what purpose?

Thank you forward.

As i said, every help is much appreciated.

Martin

Jerry:

I want to understand your point. Are you stating that John Hunt's analysis in your article and that a comparison of the windshield photos is now unreliable? Though I don't believe the first photo is of the Dallas windshield, if these windshields are not the same it would represent conclusive evidence that a shell game was being played. I hope you or Barb will get an opportunity to reply to my previous post. p.21.

My best,

Doug Weldon

Hello Doug,

Yes, that's correct. Right now, I don't think any windshield comparison can be conclusive including Hunt's. If we can gather better data at the Archives it might be possible, but right now I'm certain that we really don't know exactly what it is we're trying to compare. I'll try to look up your post - do you have the post #?

Why do you think the FBI photo is not of the Dallas windshield. Because it doesn't have a hole in it?

Best to you,

Jerry

Jerry:

It is posts #305 , 308 and 314. Things move so fast here it is often difficult to keep up and it sounds like you have been busy. My problem with the FBI photo is that it cannot be authenticated. I hope you get a chance to view my you-tube presentation. It demonstrates the efforts to mask the Altgen's windshield in the area of the spiral nebulae.

My best,

Doug Weldon

Ok Doug, I'm on it. You're right. I've had some issues so I'm a little lost in the threads right now. But we shall overcome.

Jerry

J. Raymond Carroll · January 17, 2010

I'm a little lost in the threads right now. But we shall overcome.
Jerry

No wonder you are a little lost. You ( and many others) keep reposting other people's posts and cluttering up the forum with stuff that is redundant.

Please read the thread on USING THE JFK FORUM

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15256

PS I don't mean to pick you out especially, Jerry, but I expect better from an attorney.

Martin Hinrichs · January 17, 2010

Hello Martin!
Thanks for being so patient. Analog life has been putting a serious dent in my cyber time.

John Hunt communicated with Josiah. I don't think there was a published formal study but Tink would know for sure.

Later on I contacted John because I had the same questions about the HSCA photos. He told me that to his knowledge the photos he used weren't published anywhere. That he had gone to the National Archives and scanned the photos there in the HSCA holdings. He also generously provided me with some additional, more detailed scans that I'd be happy to share with you. You're right. They're nothing like the HSCA photos at Mary Ferrell in terms of detail and quality. I could not tell just by looking at the scans if they are simply much better scans of the HSCA photos seen at MF or if they are scans of photos that aren't available online but in the HSCA archives. Also, on line, I am unable to locate any information about the details of the photo shoot. Time/conditions/who...? That's one of the reasons why I put additional windshield work on hold until I could get to the Archives and sort some of this out for myself.

Another reason I wanted to get to the Archives before proceeding was important information from Tony Marsh. The FBI image of the windshield crack that everyone is using is a print that Mr. Marsh had made from a copy negative he obtained from the Archives. Mr. Marsh made it clear that the appearance of the cracks changed depending on the exposure settings he selected for his prints and that the print that's in general circulation represents a version of how the cracks looked but not the only possible version. He also could not recall if the copy negative from the Archives was a copy of a print or a copy of a negative.

In fact, I decided that more work at the Archives was necessary because of something you discovered! As you know, the Archives has periodically re-photographed the windshield. Some of those photos are at Mary Ferrell and the amazing Robin Unger brought them to general attention at his photo archive on Duncan's site. As you remember, there was something odd about those photos, they seem to be split and then re-pieced together. It was you that noticed the cracks and shadows had changed because different parts of the windshield were backed by different materials. The fact that the shadows and cracks changed so much just because a different backing was used made me realize that one had to be very, very careful in comparing photos and reaching conclusions about the windshield. Therefore my resolution to get to the Archives and try to sort out the photographic record.

I hope this helps - perhaps a good excuse to get you to Washington?

My very best to you,

Jerry

Thanks for the response Jerry.

I see you seeking in the dust as me as well.

We shall ask John Hunt to join here too and yes...it would be very nice if would share the additional, more detailed scans from the 1978 HSCA windshield cracks.

I think we can find a solution to find out if these windshield cracks are the same. Thats not impossible.

And i believe you agree with me on that because you consider to spend a couple of bucks to analyze it from your two trusted professionals.

The good think is they are trying to work it out in CAD. Thats my homeland since 1992.

So, i can cross check, contact this persons if you don't mind.

A comprehensive and conclusive analysis might deserve a seperate Topic i think.

And it will need a very careful examination to come to a common accepted denominator for all parties.

But i think we can achieve it.

A comparison of this two windshield cracks is nevertheless dominated by the following undeniable principal:

The windshield was kicked out at 11/26/63 by the feet of the Arlington Glass men.

And that dominant cross crack should be visible in every photo post to 11/26/63. (Look at the attachement)

I miss that in the HSCA 1978 photo. I know you know it Jerry.

You should consider to save your money because of the known facts.

The only question which remains unanswered to me is: why is this photo existant in the archives and related to the 1978 HSCA files?

For what purpose? Did they used a template to re-create a similar windshield crack?

In the end it's pretty clear to me. We are dealing with two different windshields.

I was never in Washington and i hope to be there at some point.

I think in spring i will do a journey over the ocean.

But Dallas is the major task on my list. But who knows, the archives might be worth to visit.

My best to you

Martin

Jerry Logan · January 17, 2010

No wonder you are a little lost. You ( and many others) keep reposting other people's posts and cluttering up the forum with stuff that is redundant.
Please read the thread on USING THE JFK FORUM

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15256

PS I don't mean to pick you out especially, Jerry, but I expect better from an attorney.

I expect more from myself Mr. Carroll but the flesh is weak and the mind is getting weaker all the time.

I shall endeavor to do better.

Thanks for the observation.

Best regards to you,

Jerry

January 17, 2010

Bernice, Could you post page 436 of the third printing of HOAX (2003) here? I think it would be very helpful. And if it would not be asking too much, please post below it page 350 of http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/ of the final chapter. Thanks!

Nobody know what the "Dallas" windshield looked like. It was used as a template to make
a replacement windshield and numerous duplicates for the SS.

Oh, I forgot. You do not believe witnesses.

Jack

Jack White · January 17, 2010

...

Bernice Moore · January 17, 2010

Bernice, Could you post page 436 of the third printing of HOAX (2003) here? I think it would be very helpful. And if it would not be asking too much, please post below it page 350 of http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/ of the final chapter. Thanks!
Nobody know what the "Dallas" windshield looked like. It was used as a template to make
a replacement windshield and numerous duplicates for the SS.

Oh, I forgot. You do not believe witnesses.

Jack

Thanks Jack i have the first printing...here is the last chapter Jim i cannot screen capture only the one page i am a learning though..so hopefully soon...i know groan.....so they get the whole chapter for free...which is good..imo..go to page 350 all... :lol: ...b i'm trying...Jack i cannot get the chapter nor page 350 up can you do so for dr

.jim many thanks...b...sorry...hopefully next time... go to page 350 of http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/ of the final chapter, 30

Edited January 17, 2010 by Bernice Moore

Jack White · January 17, 2010

Bernice, Could you post page 436 of the third printing of HOAX (2003) here? I think it would be very helpful. And if it would not be asking too much, please post below it page 350 of http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/ of the final chapter. Thanks!
Nobody know what the "Dallas" windshield looked like. It was used as a template to make
a replacement windshield and numerous duplicates for the SS.

Oh, I forgot. You do not believe witnesses.

Jack

Thanks Jack i have the first printing...here is the last chapter Jim i cannot screen capture only the one page i am a learning though..so hopefully soon...i know groan.....so they get the whole chapter for free...which is good..imo..go to page 350 all... ...b i'm trying...Jack i cannot get the chapter nor page 350 up can you do so for dr

.jim many thanks...b...sorry...hopefully next time... go to page 350 of http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/ of the final chapter, 30

On a Macintosh, SCREEN CAPTURE is extremely simple...command/shift/3

Jack

January 17, 2010

Good work, Jack! Now where is Jerry Logan hiding? Come out, come out, wherever you are!

Have I mentioned that Jim discovered when a high-velocity bullet passed though a windshield

it makes the sound of a firecracker? And, as it passes through, it makes a small, spiral nebula

like that seen in the windshield in the Altgens? David Mantik studied Tom Robinson's summary

of the wounds to JFK and regards "the small shrapnel wounds to face" as the effects of small

shards of glass that were dislodged by the bullet as it passed through the windshield. So the

medical, photographic and acoustical evidence converge on a throat wound via the windshield,

where Weldon's scenario has even been confirmed by experiments with high-powered rifles.

...

Edited January 17, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

Doug Weldon · January 17, 2010

Thanks for the response Jerry. :ice