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Michael Hogan

David Lifton -- Final Charade

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The key to unraveling this case is to focus on fraud in the evidence. That has been my position for many years--indeed, decades--and it has not changed one bit.

There was demonstrable fraud in Mexico City. In the past you have hinted that your next book would deal with that. Are you still planning to publish Final Charade?

Years ago, when I read that you were working on a new book about President Kennedy's murder, I began anticipating it keenly. I seem to remember that you were going to focus on Lee Oswald.

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The key to unraveling this case is to focus on fraud in the evidence. That has been my position for many years--indeed, decades--and it has not changed one bit.

There was demonstrable fraud in Mexico City. In the past you have hinted that your next book would deal with that. Are you still planning to publish Final Charade?

Years ago, when I read that you were working on a new book about President Kennedy's murder, I began anticipating it keenly. I seem to remember that you were going to focus on Lee Oswald.

When I heard about David working on a new book about LHO I was very excited

If anyone could keep my attention on LHO and his life it would be David Lifton, as I have always said Best Evidence is not only my second favorite book because of what Lifton proves, but also because it is a very enjoyable read

I remember reading Pig On A Leash when I bought TGZFH first before anything else

That got me even more pumped up for Liftons new book

Like Michael I ask te same question, will you publish it?

I will buy a copy as soon as it is avalible

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Here is some interesting stuff by Mr. Lifton:

Just for the record:

As a native New Yorker, and someone who knows the city well, and its media:

I do not believe for a minute--not for a New York minute (as the saying goes)--that the Zapruder film was shown at the Bleeker Street Cinema in December of 1964. That would have been all over the media, and Time-Life's lawyers would have been all over that situation within a day.

Perhaps you are confused.

FYI: David Wolper produced two films in 1964: his Oscar Nominated 1964 film was titled "Four Days in November." That was in black and white, and does contain the Nix film. He also produced "1000 Days: A Tribute to John F. Kennedy."

DSL

Los Angeles, California

1/02/2010 5:15 PM

The Bleeker Street Cinema, and it followed the David Wolper film "1000 Days" which was in black+white. They rolled without comment into the Zapruder. At the time I did not question who was responsible for the showing. I did not realize until later how unusual that was.

There was indeed a small ad in one of the NYC papers, but, there was no press hype over it. I sat in the front row and my obsession with the limo began that evening, watching the limo move into view with the flags flapping in the wind, then watching JFK move from life to death on a large screen.

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Here is some interesting stuff by Mr. Lifton:
Just for the record:

As a native New Yorker, and someone who knows the city well, and its media:

I do not believe for a minute--not for a New York minute (as the saying goes)--that the Zapruder film was shown at the Bleeker Street Cinema in December of 1964. That would have been all over the media, and Time-Life's lawyers would have been all over that situation within a day.

Perhaps you are confused.

FYI: David Wolper produced two films in 1964: his Oscar Nominated 1964 film was titled "Four Days in November." That was in black and white, and does contain the Nix film. He also produced "1000 Days: A Tribute to John F. Kennedy."

DSL

Los Angeles, California

1/02/2010 5:15 PM

The Bleeker Street Cinema, and it followed the David Wolper film "1000 Days" which was in black+white. They rolled without comment into the Zapruder. At the time I did not question who was responsible for the showing. I did not realize until later how unusual that was.

There was indeed a small ad in one of the NYC papers, but, there was no press hype over it. I sat in the front row and my obsession with the limo began that evening, watching the limo move into view with the flags flapping in the wind, then watching JFK move from life to death on a large screen.

1. Wolper produced 32 episodes of the 1954 series OSS: it is inconceivable that the CIA did not take a keen interest in the shaping of the series, not least because of the presence of so many ex-OSS in its own ranks, among them, the most senior.

2. The Wolper documentary Four Days in November, released in October 1964, was made in conjunction with UPI, and debuted just as UPI completed its takeover of Wolper's production company and its (five?) subsidiaries.

3. Four Days is perhaps most remarkable for what it omits - any footage of the presidential limousine turning the corner from Houston on Elm:

"For an hour, the drama built up until the presidential car turned a Dallas street corner and a shot rang out. The screen went blank for several seconds, symbolizing the inability of the mind to grasp what had happened. Then the camera recaptured the frenzy in the Dallas streets — Mrs. Kennedy pulling the Secret Service agent onto the rear of the car, the dash to Parkland Hospital, the blind man’s buff search for a culprit. And then the grief,"

Marlyn E. Aycock (UPI), JFK Assassination Film Holds Guests Spellbound, Kingsport News (Tennessee), 8 October 1964, p.19

4. The absence of any footage of said turn is more than a little curious because according to a UPI despatch from New York in the early hours of Tuesday, November 26, 1963, it had footage of precisely that turn:

The Valley Independent, (Monessen, Pennsylvania), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 5

Film Showing Assassination Is Released

NEW YORK (UPI) — United Press International Newsfilm early today was first on the air with exclusive film showing the assassination of President Kennedy.

The film is 16mm enlarged from 8mm. It was shown on a New York City television station.

The sequence, shot by an amateur photographer in Dallas Friday, begins with motorcycle police coming around the corner followed by the Kennedy motorcade.

The President is then seen leaning over when the bullets strike. Mrs. Kennedy puts her right arm around the President and he slumps out of view. The film then shows a Secret Service agent running toward the car.

The film was shown in slow motion and also stopped at key points in the assassination. The scene was shown four times at different speeds and under different magnifications.

Copies have been rushed to United Press Newsfilm clients all over the world.

My conclusion from the above?

Rather to my surprise, I find Pamela's recollection entirely credible, for this additional reason: The version of the Zapruder fake which, unannounced, followed Wolper's cynical piece of pro-WC hackwork was almost certainly the second version, the one which had removed the left turn from Houston on to Elm. What I suspect she was subjected to was a small scale experiment in perception management, as part of the preparation for introducing the new, improved version of the Zapruder fake.

Paul

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Here is some interesting stuff by Mr. Lifton:
Just for the record:

As a native New Yorker, and someone who knows the city well, and its media:

I do not believe for a minute--not for a New York minute (as the saying goes)--that the Zapruder film was shown at the Bleeker Street Cinema in December of 1964. That would have been all over the media, and Time-Life's lawyers would have been all over that situation within a day.

Perhaps you are confused.

FYI: David Wolper produced two films in 1964: his Oscar Nominated 1964 film was titled "Four Days in November." That was in black and white, and does contain the Nix film. He also produced "1000 Days: A Tribute to John F. Kennedy."

DSL

Los Angeles, California

1/02/2010 5:15 PM

The Bleeker Street Cinema, and it followed the David Wolper film "1000 Days" which was in black+white. They rolled without comment into the Zapruder. At the time I did not question who was responsible for the showing. I did not realize until later how unusual that was.

There was indeed a small ad in one of the NYC papers, but, there was no press hype over it. I sat in the front row and my obsession with the limo began that evening, watching the limo move into view with the flags flapping in the wind, then watching JFK move from life to death on a large screen.

1. Wolper produced 32 episodes of the 1954 series OSS: it is inconceivable that the CIA did not take a keen interest in the shaping of the series, not least because of the presence of so many ex-OSS in its own ranks, among them, the most senior.

2. The Wolper documentary Four Days in November, released in October 1964, was made in conjunction with UPI, and debuted just as UPI completed its takeover of Wolper's production company and its (five?) subsidiaries.

3. Four Days is perhaps most remarkable for what it omits - any footage of the presidential limousine turning the corner from Houston on Elm:

"For an hour, the drama built up until the presidential car turned a Dallas street corner and a shot rang out. The screen went blank for several seconds, symbolizing the inability of the mind to grasp what had happened. Then the camera recaptured the frenzy in the Dallas streets — Mrs. Kennedy pulling the Secret Service agent onto the rear of the car, the dash to Parkland Hospital, the blind man’s buff search for a culprit. And then the grief,"

Marlyn E. Aycock (UPI), JFK Assassination Film Holds Guests Spellbound, Kingsport News (Tennessee), 8 October 1964, p.19

4. The absence of any footage of said turn is more than a little curious because according to a UPI despatch from New York in the early hours of Tuesday, November 26, 1963, it had footage of precisely that turn:

The Valley Independent, (Monessen, Pennsylvania), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 5

Film Showing Assassination Is Released

NEW YORK (UPI) — United Press International Newsfilm early today was first on the air with exclusive film showing the assassination of President Kennedy.

The film is 16mm enlarged from 8mm. It was shown on a New York City television station.

The sequence, shot by an amateur photographer in Dallas Friday, begins with motorcycle police coming around the corner followed by the Kennedy motorcade.

The President is then seen leaning over when the bullets strike. Mrs. Kennedy puts her right arm around the President and he slumps out of view. The film then shows a Secret Service agent running toward the car.

The film was shown in slow motion and also stopped at key points in the assassination. The scene was shown four times at different speeds and under different magnifications.

Copies have been rushed to United Press Newsfilm clients all over the world.

My conclusion from the above?

Rather to my surprise, I find Pamela's recollection entirely credible, for this additional reason: The version of the Zapruder fake which, unannounced, followed Wolper's cynical piece of pro-WC hackwork was almost certainly the second version, the one which had removed the left turn from Houston on to Elm. What I suspect she was subjected to was a small scale experiment in perception management, as part of the preparation for introducing the new, improved version of the Zapruder fake.

Paul

It seemed to me at the time that the copy of the Z-film I saw was not only pretty clear (in sharp contrast to the grainy version showed years later by Geraldo) but that everything in the fatal headshot went backwards. I became convinced upon viewing it that the shot could not have come from the TSBD. As all the controversy began to swirl about the myth the WCR was trying to put forth, no matter how 'logical' anything seemed, it was in conflict with my perception.

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Here is some interesting stuff by Mr. Lifton:
Just for the record:

As a native New Yorker, and someone who knows the city well, and its media:

I do not believe for a minute--not for a New York minute (as the saying goes)--that the Zapruder film was shown at the Bleeker Street Cinema in December of 1964. That would have been all over the media, and Time-Life's lawyers would have been all over that situation within a day.

Perhaps you are confused.

FYI: David Wolper produced two films in 1964: his Oscar Nominated 1964 film was titled "Four Days in November." That was in black and white, and does contain the Nix film. He also produced "1000 Days: A Tribute to John F. Kennedy."

DSL

Los Angeles, California

1/02/2010 5:15 PM

The Bleeker Street Cinema, and it followed the David Wolper film "1000 Days" which was in black+white. They rolled without comment into the Zapruder. At the time I did not question who was responsible for the showing. I did not realize until later how unusual that was.

There was indeed a small ad in one of the NYC papers, but, there was no press hype over it. I sat in the front row and my obsession with the limo began that evening, watching the limo move into view with the flags flapping in the wind, then watching JFK move from life to death on a large screen.

As much as Lifton would like to think he knows it all, he is in this case mistaken. I have been sharing this event since it happened. I also included it in my essay "SS-100-X" in CAR CRASH CULTURE. In fact, I believe I may have sent Lifton a copy.

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It seemed to me at the time that the copy of the Z-film I saw was not only pretty clear (in sharp contrast to the grainy version showed years later by Geraldo) but that everything in the fatal headshot went backwards. I became convinced upon viewing it that the shot could not have come from the TSBD. As all the controversy began to swirl about the myth the WCR was trying to put forth, no matter how 'logical' anything seemed, it was in conflict with my perception.

That's very definitely the second version.

There is a further reason for believing that UPI Newsfilms had, and disseminated widely, the Z fake (version 1), and it’s one that should be familiar to both David Lifton and all readers of his fascinating essay, The Pig on a Leash.*

In that admirable reconsideration of the Z films’ history and authenticity, Lifton twice dwelt on a remarkable feature of Time-Life’s handling of the Z-fake: “In short, it would appear that Life behaved in a manner that what was most unusual, and peculiar for an institution in a capitalist economy: It laid out the equivalent of some $900,000 for a literary asset and then failed to exploit that asset…Life magazine is not an eleemosynary institution” (p.314).

He returned to the same theme later in the essay: “Life seemed to behave in a most extraordinary way: It failed to recoup its investment” (p.351). He went on to observe that even though “social mores were different in 1963, human nature does not change. Life had an extraordinary property – a motion picture film, yet, aside from the publication of a select number of frames, it acted to keep it off the market” (pp.351-2).

Now here’s the oddity (and similarity): Both UPI and WNEW-TV, NY, proved surprisingly modest when it came to celebrating their journalistic scoop. UPI, for example, issued a booklet in December 1963 which included examples of its journalism in the period November 22-26, but which omitted all reference to the assassination film of which it had so proudly boasted in its despatch from New York in the early hours of November 26. And likewise WNEW, which, in conjunction with UPI, produced the LP Four Days That Shocked The World. Again, the silence on the great scoop was deafening.

Modesty, like amnesia, proved surprisingly common amongst the titans of the US media in the wake of November 22.

* Page references from Jim Fetzer (ed.) The Great Zapruder Film Hoax: Deceit and Deception in the Death of JFK (Chicago: Catfeet Press, 2003).

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The key to unraveling this case is to focus on fraud in the evidence. That has been my position for many years--indeed, decades--and it has not changed one bit.

There was demonstrable fraud in Mexico City. In the past you have hinted that your next book would deal with that. Are you still planning to publish Final Charade?

Years ago, when I read that you were working on a new book about President Kennedy's murder, I began anticipating it keenly. I seem to remember that you were going to focus on Lee Oswald.

When I heard about David working on a new book about LHO I was very excited

If anyone could keep my attention on LHO and his life it would be David Lifton, as I have always said Best Evidence is not only my second favorite book because of what Lifton proves, but also because it is a very enjoyable read

I remember reading Pig On A Leash when I bought TGZFH first before anything else

That got me even more pumped up for Liftons new book

Like Michael I ask te same question, will you publish it?

I will buy a copy as soon as it is avalible

Lifton's inability to get his book out may be due to the fact that he does not have sufficient skills to weigh and evaluate Judyth Baker's statements. He has done everything possible to try to destroy her credibility, yet she is documented to have worked with LHO at Reily Coffee in the summer of 1963, and is very persistent and just will not go away. Rather than developing a process that would work, Lifton has apparently stuck his head in the sand.

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The key to unraveling this case is to focus on fraud in the evidence. That has been my position for many years--indeed, decades--and it has not changed one bit.

There was demonstrable fraud in Mexico City. In the past you have hinted that your next book would deal with that. Are you still planning to publish Final Charade?

Years ago, when I read that you were working on a new book about President Kennedy's murder, I began anticipating it keenly. I seem to remember that you were going to focus on Lee Oswald.

When I heard about David working on a new book about LHO I was very excited

If anyone could keep my attention on LHO and his life it would be David Lifton, as I have always said Best Evidence is not only my second favorite book because of what Lifton proves, but also because it is a very enjoyable read

I remember reading Pig On A Leash when I bought TGZFH first before anything else

That got me even more pumped up for Liftons new book

Like Michael I ask te same question, will you publish it?

I will buy a copy as soon as it is avalible

Lifton's inability to get his book out may be due to the fact that he does not have sufficient skills to weigh and evaluate Judyth Baker's statements. He has done everything possible to try to destroy her credibility, yet she is documented to have worked with LHO at Reily Coffee in the summer of 1963, and is very persistent and just will not go away. Rather than developing a process that would work, Lifton has apparently stuck his head in the sand.

Regardless of David Lifton's response to Judyth Baker's story, she has not provided any new witnesses or any new records related to Lee Harvey Oswald, the officially designated Patsy, so she doesn't provide any leads that can be developed that will tell us more about the Patsy or his activities, so why should we pay any attention to her at all?

Bill Kelly

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The key to unraveling this case is to focus on fraud in the evidence. That has been my position for many years--indeed, decades--and it has not changed one bit.

There was demonstrable fraud in Mexico City. In the past you have hinted that your next book would deal with that. Are you still planning to publish Final Charade?

Years ago, when I read that you were working on a new book about President Kennedy's murder, I began anticipating it keenly. I seem to remember that you were going to focus on Lee Oswald.

When I heard about David working on a new book about LHO I was very excited

If anyone could keep my attention on LHO and his life it would be David Lifton, as I have always said Best Evidence is not only my second favorite book because of what Lifton proves, but also because it is a very enjoyable read

I remember reading Pig On A Leash when I bought TGZFH first before anything else

That got me even more pumped up for Liftons new book

Like Michael I ask te same question, will you publish it?

I will buy a copy as soon as it is avalible

Lifton's inability to get his book out may be due to the fact that he does not have sufficient skills to weigh and evaluate Judyth Baker's statements. He has done everything possible to try to destroy her credibility, yet she is documented to have worked with LHO at Reily Coffee in the summer of 1963, and is very persistent and just will not go away. Rather than developing a process that would work, Lifton has apparently stuck his head in the sand.

:lol:

Im positive that Judyth Bakers BS story is the last thing in the world that would hold Lifton back from anything

So not only did you view the Z-film back in 1964 but you also believe Juydth Bakers story?

Let me guess you also believe James Files?

Edited by Dean Hagerman

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The key to unraveling this case is to focus on fraud in the evidence. That has been my position for many years--indeed, decades--and it has not changed one bit.

There was demonstrable fraud in Mexico City. In the past you have hinted that your next book would deal with that. Are you still planning to publish Final Charade?

Years ago, when I read that you were working on a new book about President Kennedy's murder, I began anticipating it keenly. I seem to remember that you were going to focus on Lee Oswald.

When I heard about David working on a new book about LHO I was very excited

If anyone could keep my attention on LHO and his life it would be David Lifton, as I have always said Best Evidence is not only my second favorite book because of what Lifton proves, but also because it is a very enjoyable read

I remember reading Pig On A Leash when I bought TGZFH first before anything else

That got me even more pumped up for Liftons new book

Like Michael I ask te same question, will you publish it?

I will buy a copy as soon as it is avalible

Lifton's inability to get his book out may be due to the fact that he does not have sufficient skills to weigh and evaluate Judyth Baker's statements. He has done everything possible to try to destroy her credibility, yet she is documented to have worked with LHO at Reily Coffee in the summer of 1963, and is very persistent and just will not go away. Rather than developing a process that would work, Lifton has apparently stuck his head in the sand.

B)

Im positive that Judyth Bakers BS story is the last thing in the world that would hold Lifton back from anything

So not only did you view the Z-film back in 1964 but you also believe Juydth Bakers story?

Let me guess you also believe James Files?

So you are comfortable falling prey to the fallacy of false alternatives? Frankly, that speaks volumes.

Judyth is a documented witness to LHO at Reily in NOLA in the summer of '63. Rather than devising a process for weighing and evaluating what she has to say, much less developing even one of his famous hypotheses, Lifton has done everything possible to try to discredit her. In my estimation, the things that happened that involved him and other prominent researchers in this regard were extremely unprofessional.

Judyth was supposed to turn tail and run, never to be seen or heard from again. Though she has had to take refuge outside the US, she is determined to be heard. Whether one agrees with what she has to say or not is a different matter. The issue that I am seeing is that Lifton does not know how to deal with her in his book, just as he does not know how to deal with her in real life. Others, such as Jim Fetzer, Jim Marrs, and Harry Livingstone, have managed to gracefully keep a door open for her whether or not they happen to agree with everything she has to say.

As far as my viewing the Z-film in 1964, I am finding irony in the fact that, other than my description of my experience in "SS-100-X" in CAR CRASH CULTURE (David apparently didn't bother to read the copy I sent him in 2002) I have not published any articles yet on the Z-film, whereas he seems to consider himself an expert and has published a number of articles on or including it. But he is aparently unaware of the underground showings that occurred, and rather than putting his researcher cap back on, prefers to clasp his know-it-all cap firmly to his head. Wonderful.

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So many covert copies of some form of the Z film seemed to be in circulation back

then, I do not find it incredible at all that Pamela may have seen one of the bootleg

copies shown by some enterprising movie house UNTIL authorities found out and

put a stop to it. I do not believe Pamela would LIE about the event; what is

questionable is exactly what version of what film she saw, and why it did not make

big news at the time. I imagine the Z film would have caused a sensation!

Re Judyth, MANY intelligent researchers have been taken in by her story. Pamela

has good company, since my long time friend Jim Marrs also believes Judyth.

However, I would make this observation: EVERY researcher who believes her story

HAS HAD PERSONAL INTERACTION WITH HER at some level. There must be something

very persuasive about talking to her in person, because IN WRITING, her story comes

across as phony as a $6 bill. I prefer to side with the late Mary Ferrell, who probably

investigated her more vigorously than anyone, and found her story fraudulent.

Jack

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So many covert copies of some form of the Z film seemed to be in circulation back

then, I do not find it incredible at all that Pamela may have seen one of the bootleg

copies shown by some enterprising movie house UNTIL authorities found out and

put a stop to it. I do not believe Pamela would LIE about the event; what is

questionable is exactly what version of what film she saw, and why it did not make

big news at the time. I imagine the Z film would have caused a sensation!

Re Judyth, MANY intelligent researchers have been taken in by her story. Pamela

has good company, since my long time friend Jim Marrs also believes Judyth.

However, I would make this observation: EVERY researcher who believes her story

HAS HAD PERSONAL INTERACTION WITH HER at some level. There must be something

very persuasive about talking to her in person, because IN WRITING, her story comes

across as phony as a $6 bill. I prefer to side with the late Mary Ferrell, who probably

investigated her more vigorously than anyone, and found her story fraudulent.

Jack

I agree Jack,

And I'm looking foward to reading Lifton's next book - is there a publication date David? - and he doesn't even have to mention her.

Other than working at the coffee company in the summer of '63, Judyth has not told us anything that gives us a better perspective or understanding of what was going on with Oswald in New Orleans that summer. She has not introduced one new witness that saw or knew him or one new document that leads to anything. So why bother with her at all?

Does David Lifton have a publication date?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

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So many covert copies of some form of the Z film seemed to be in circulation back

then, I do not find it incredible at all that Pamela may have seen one of the bootleg

copies shown by some enterprising movie house UNTIL authorities found out and

put a stop to it. I do not believe Pamela would LIE about the event; what is

questionable is exactly what version of what film she saw, and why it did not make

big news at the time. I imagine the Z film would have caused a sensation!

Re Judyth, MANY intelligent researchers have been taken in by her story. Pamela

has good company, since my long time friend Jim Marrs also believes Judyth.

However, I would make this observation: EVERY researcher who believes her story

HAS HAD PERSONAL INTERACTION WITH HER at some level. There must be something

very persuasive about talking to her in person, because IN WRITING, her story comes

across as phony as a $6 bill. I prefer to side with the late Mary Ferrell, who probably

investigated her more vigorously than anyone, and found her story fraudulent.

Jack

When I viewed the Zapruder I had no idea how rare an event it would end up being. A friend of mine had seen a small ad in one of the tabloid-style NYC papers (not the NYT) and brought it to my attention. I don't recall if it was scheduled for more than one evening, and don't know if it ran for more than one evening. I was there the first night, we were among the first in line, and sat in the front row. It seems whomever did this managed to slide it under the radar, at least once.

I am working to gain more definition on which or whose copy it was that I saw. Although I did not at the time connect Mark Lane to the event, it did seem logical that he might have been involved. However, per Kelin's book, Lane was in LA at that time doing debates with Belli.

As far as Judyth is concerned, I manage to keep an open mind. She seems to know some things that are remarkable, and there are other areas that are almost impossible to corroborate. Also, she seemed not to realize that what she experienced herself was at one level; what she was told, at another. She has muddied the waters somewhat also by trying to be witness and researcher. Hers is a complex situation; yet her tenacity despite the libel, ridicule, and all the dirty tricks, is quite remarkable. I don't think Lee Oswald has a more dedicated champion than Judyth. That speaks volumes to me too.

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So many covert copies of some form of the Z film seemed to be in circulation back

then, I do not find it incredible at all that Pamela may have seen one of the bootleg

copies shown by some enterprising movie house UNTIL authorities found out and

put a stop to it. I do not believe Pamela would LIE about the event; what is

questionable is exactly what version of what film she saw, and why it did not make

big news at the time. I imagine the Z film would have caused a sensation!

Re Judyth, MANY intelligent researchers have been taken in by her story. Pamela

has good company, since my long time friend Jim Marrs also believes Judyth.

However, I would make this observation: EVERY researcher who believes her story

HAS HAD PERSONAL INTERACTION WITH HER at some level. There must be something

very persuasive about talking to her in person, because IN WRITING, her story comes

across as phony as a $6 bill. I prefer to side with the late Mary Ferrell, who probably

investigated her more vigorously than anyone, and found her story fraudulent.

Jack

When I viewed the Zapruder I had no idea how rare an event it would end up being. A friend of mine had seen a small ad in one of the tabloid-style NYC papers (not the NYT) and brought it to my attention. I don't recall if it was scheduled for more than one evening, and don't know if it ran for more than one evening. I was there the first night, we were among the first in line, and sat in the front row. It seems whomever did this managed to slide it under the radar, at least once.

I am working to gain more definition on which or whose copy it was that I saw. Although I did not at the time connect Mark Lane to the event, it did seem logical that he might have been involved. However, per Kelin's book, Lane was in LA at that time doing debates with Belli.

As far as Judyth is concerned, I manage to keep an open mind. She seems to know some things that are remarkable, and there are other areas that are almost impossible to corroborate. Also, she seemed not to realize that what she experienced herself was at one level; what she was told, at another. She has muddied the waters somewhat also by trying to be witness and researcher. Hers is a complex situation; yet her tenacity despite the libel, ridicule, and all the dirty tricks, is quite remarkable. I don't think Lee Oswald has a more dedicated champion than Judyth. That speaks volumes to me too.

IF Judyth was acquainted with Oswald in New Orleans, it was HARVEY, who was on assignment from the CIA.

It was NOT Lee.

It was Harvey killed by Ruby, not Lee.

When Judyth was on forums, I asked her which LHO she knew. She became very abusive when it was suggested

to her that there were two Oswalds. When told that Harvey's time was accounted for at times she claimed to be

with him, she made wild paranoid accusations. Rich DellaRosa banned her from his forum for abusive behavior.

She NEVER offered a single piece of supporting evidence to back her imaginative stories. John Armstrong, who

knows every LHO document by memory, can cite dozens of holes in her tales.

Jack

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