Secret Service Destroys Records

[William Kelly]

The destruction of records doesn't mean the information contained in them can't be retreived from another source.

John Newman once remarked about how the government, especially the military, makes double and triplicate copies of all records, so there's a copy of it somewhere, even if another copy is destoryed.

Tom Scully said the fire at the Military Records Center in St. Louis should be looked into, and there is some good stuff about it, especially in the reconstruction of destroyed files.

Here's some of the basics.

As one article about the fire noted: ”Reconstruction of service data in response to requests for information has become a major activity at the center since the fire. This reconstruction is not without precedent. Alexander the Great faced the same problem when, during one of his campaigns, a tent containing valuable records was destroyed by fire and he had them reconstructed by directing his field commanders to supply copies of the orders and other instructions they had received.”

1973 Fire Military Records

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html

On July 12, 1973, a disastrous fire at NPRC (MPR) destroyed approximately 16-18 million Official Military Personnel Files. The affected record collections are described below.

Branch

Personnel and Period Affected

Estimated Loss

Army

Personnel discharged November 1, 1912, to January 1, 1960

80%

Air Force

Personnel discharged, September 25, 1947, to January 1, 1964

(with names alphabetically after Hubbard, James E.)

75%

No duplicate copies of the records that were destroyed in the fire were maintained, nor was a microfilm copy ever produced. There were no indexes created prior to the fire. In addition, millions of documents had been lent to the Department of Veterans Affairs before the fire occurred. Therefore, a complete listing of the records that were lost is not available. Nevertheless, NPRC (MPR) uses many alternate sources in its efforts to reconstruct basic service information to respond to requests.

Here's a really interesting article and analysis of the fire by NARA officials:

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-...ire.pdf

[John Dolva]

Does the article refer to an unusualness of the fire?

[William Kelly]

Does the article refer to an unusualness of the fire?

I read much of the article and never got to the point where what started the fire on the Sixth Floor. How suspicious is that?

It appears electrical/accidental, but the failure of the designers to put in sprinklers because archivists said water was worse than fire was certainly a mistake, since wet documents can be restored while burned ones are gone.

If you read it, let me know how the fire started.

BK

[John Dolva]

MMMM... It's only by considering the circumstances and having read of the existence of a device that has the characteristic of localisation and intense heat. It would be utterly irresponsible of me to describe it in any other way.

[William Kelly]

Besides the destruction of Oswald's DOD file in the 70s, and the destruction of the Secret Service records after the enactment of the JFK Act, does anyone know of any similar deliberate destruction of JFK Assassination records that we should bring to the attention of the House Oversight Sub-Committee?

Thanks,

BK

[John Dolva]

There definitely appears to be a chunk missing from the period in the MSC files (of those that are available).

Who knows where relevant KKK and its investigative wing, the KBI, documentation is.

When Nixon abolished the USPO and replaced it with the USPS in '71 (?) what happened to the USPOs, particularly the PI services, files?

[William Plumlee]

Besides the destruction of Oswald's DOD file in the 70s, and the destruction of the Secret Service records after the enactment of the JFK Act, does anyone know of any similar deliberate destruction of JFK Assassination records that we should bring to the attention of the House Oversight Sub-Committee?

Thanks,

BK

YA! THE PLUMLEE FILES: US ARMY RA 18389060 D-8 FORT BLISS TEXAS 1954-64 AS WELL AS THE FOURTH ARMY RESERVE AND THE 49th ARMORD DIV. TEXAS NATIONAL GUARD; LOVE FIELD, DALLAS TEXAS..... being you asked.

[Thomas Graves]

Besides the destruction of Oswald's DOD file in the 70s, and the destruction of the Secret Service records after the enactment of the JFK Act, does anyone know of any similar deliberate destruction of JFK Assassination records that we should bring to the attention of the House Oversight Sub-Committee?

Thanks,

BK

YA! THE PLUMLEE FILES: US ARMY RA 18389060 D-8 FORT BLISS TEXAS 1954-64 AS WELL AS THE FOURTH ARMY RESERVE AND THE 49th ARMORD DIV. TEXAS NATIONAL GUARD; LOVE FIELD, DALLAS TEXAS..... being you asked.

______________________________________________________

I agree completely. (Good to see you posting again Tosh.)

--Thomas

Edited March 16, 2010 by Thomas Graves

[Terry Adams]

YA! THE PLUMLEE FILES: US ARMY RA 18389060 D-8 FORT BLISS TEXAS 1954-64 AS WELL AS THE FOURTH ARMY RESERVE AND THE 49th ARMORD DIV. TEXAS NATIONAL GUARD; LOVE FIELD, DALLAS TEXAS..... being you asked.

Tosh,

Are you posting your information in an effort to get lost information or just placing it there for us to see? The reason that I am asking is that I am a victim of that 1973 fire. My father was a veteran of WWII. He fought in the Rhineland and France, having been the recipient of a Bronze Star, Silver Star, and three (3) Purple Hearts.

I wrote to the U. S. Army and was told that all records of the army from that time period had been lost in the fire. If anyone here could be of any assistance to me I would be forever grateful. My reason for writing was an effort to determine exactly where my father fought because the Army had admitted to using some form of germ warfare in various parts of Europe during the time that he was stationed there. Since my father died at the age of 51 years old after years of misery and shrinking from 185 lbs to 120 lbs at the time of his death. I might add that he stood at 6' 1" tall, so it is needless to point out how small he was at his passing. I knew that he had been exposed to something strange because approximately seven years before his death, he fell from a standing position and "broke" his hip joint and shoulder joint. I put quotation marks around the word broke to emphasize the results of his fall. The ball joints and bone did not splinter, they were pulverized (as in powder). His name was Carl B. Adams, Corporal COA, 320 Engineer Battalion.

Now, for those here that will say that this has nothing to do with the JFK assassination, I will beg to differ. As a 12 year old boy, I sat with my Dad through that weekend in November, 1963, as we watched in shock and disbelief.

My father stood with his fellow soldiers and personally heard General George S. Patton tell them how proud he was of them and that he would guarantee fresh, clean, dry socks on a regular basis. My father laughingly said that the threads he wore after 55 days on the front line hardly ever were dry or clean and certainly were not fresh. I tell you this little story about his socks only to let you know that he did not blame General Patton for his lack of them, nor did he care, for he was an American patriot, who would have gladly given his life for the cause. MY FATHER TOLD ME ON SUNDAY, NOV. 24, 1963 THAT THERE WAS A CONSPIRACY IN THE DEATH OF HIS PRESIDENT, JOHN F. KENNEDY

[William Plumlee]

YA! THE PLUMLEE FILES: US ARMY RA 18389060 D-8 FORT BLISS TEXAS 1954-64 AS WELL AS THE FOURTH ARMY RESERVE AND THE 49th ARMORD DIV. TEXAS NATIONAL GUARD; LOVE FIELD, DALLAS TEXAS..... being you asked.

Tosh,

Are you posting your information in an effort to get lost information or just placing it there for us to see? The reason that I am asking is that I am a victim of that 1973 fire. My father was a veteran of WWII. He fought in the Rhineland and France, having been the recipient of a Bronze Star, Silver Star, and three (3) Purple Hearts.

I wrote to the U. S. Army and was told that all records of the army from that time period had been lost in the fire. If anyone here could be of any assistance to me I would be forever grateful. My reason for writing was an effort to determine exactly where my father fought because the Army had admitted to using some form of germ warfare in various parts of Europe during the time that he was stationed there. Since my father died at the age of 51 years old after years of misery and shrinking from 185 lbs to 120 lbs at the time of his death. I might add that he stood at 6' 1" tall, so it is needless to point out how small he was at his passing. I knew that he had been exposed to something strange because approximately seven years before his death, he fell from a standing position and "broke" his hip joint and shoulder joint. I put quotation marks around the word broke to emphasize the results of his fall. The ball joints and bone did not splinter, they were pulverized (as in powder). His name was Carl B. Adams, Corporal COA, 320 Engineer Battalion.

Now, for those here that will say that this has nothing to do with the JFK assassination, I will beg to differ. As a 12 year old boy, I sat with my Dad through that weekend in November, 1963, as we watched in shock and disbelief.

My father stood with his fellow soldiers and personally heard General George S. Patton tell them how proud he was of them and that he would guarantee fresh, clean, dry socks on a regular basis. My father laughingly said that the threads he wore after 55 days on the front line hardly ever were dry or clean and certainly were not fresh. I tell you this little story about his socks only to let you know that he did not blame General Patton for his lack of them, nor did he care, for he was an American patriot, who would have gladly given his life for the cause. MY FATHER TOLD ME ON SUNDAY, NOV. 24, 1963 THAT THERE WAS A CONSPIRACY IN THE DEATH OF HIS PRESIDENT, JOHN F. KENNEDY

Terry: In reference to your question: "... Are you posting your information in an effort to get lost information or just placing it there for us to see? ..".

I referenced the Plumlee File because in that file (along with nine other destroyed files of the big fire in Saint Louis) was information concerning specialized ops and the formation of a "test unit" at Ft. Bliss, known as Dog 8 RTC (Recon Training Command) Logan Heights, Ft. Bliss Texas. (1953) This group was also known as, "REDBIRD ONE": All the records of this unit were destroyed in the big fire. What is so strange about this 1953-64 unit was it was not only U.S. Army personal, but U.S Air Force, as well as a Marine unit out of Camp LeJune with names and specialized MOSes of all the operatives were lost in the fire.

All these records, as well as the supporting units and the names thereof, were together in one place (Army, Air Force, Marines; something unheard of for the time) This test unit, some years later, became part of the JM WAVE operations, as well as others, of the CIA's Miami Station in the early sixties. The Redbird team (unit) was a MI team attached to the Pentagon with logistical support from the CIA's covert action group and was involved in Cuban affairs from (1955-59 Castro support--1960-67 Anti-Castro)

Of course these records do not exist so therefore those units or teams never existed. Right? In the year 2003 partial alternate records referencing these ops and their CO's were located at the Texas National Guard at Camp Maybre, Texas outside Austin Texas. One of the Company Commanders of the early Intell companies, HDQ'ed at Dallas;, Texas Love Field, a Captain Edward G. Seiwell and a Cpl. William Plumlee were located. The DD-214's were in that file as well as some of the medical reports, thus proving the military service of those individuals and some of the covert units they were associated with.

Previous letters obtain from Personal which stated that no records could be found from 1953-1998 on various individuals associated with those early specialized operations and its "test group" and were perhaps lost in the, "Big Fire" were erroneous and mis leading to researchers to say the least. Those people did not exist or had never served.

This information was presented to the research community some years ago, but was never investigated or followed up on. It was just discredited and was said that there was no proof that these men or their claimed operations ever existed, because no records could be located and no books had been written about them.

So in answer to your question.., I guess there is no answer because we never existed, nor did those covert MI/CIA operations which were alleged by those involved. If that be the case and proves true, then your father was therefore also wrong and perhaps did not exist. Right?

P.S Here is a file that was released some years after the fire. Two names of military personal were requested in 1981. The report came back "lost in 1973 fire". Some years later, and after years of hard work, the file was found at CIA. After sometime, the file was declassified and the link below will give you the information the CIA released on these two individuals and their OMC unit:

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/omc-op.pdf

Edited March 17, 2010 by William Plumlee

[Guest Tom Scully]

http://americancity.org/magazine/article/a...ngs-mogilevich/

Architecture: Big Bad Buildings

The Vanishing Legacy of Minoru Yamasaki

By Mariana Mogilevich

...While 11,000 people had no choice but to remain in Pruitt-Igoe, the project spawned a grand jury investigation, special committees, sociological studies, and expensive attempts at renovation. Pruitt-Igoe became a laboratory for the study of America’s urban crisis. Though the project’s failure was more extreme, more visible than most, there was no fundamental difference between Pruitt-Igoe and every other site for the punishment-by-architecture that by and large characterized postwar public housing efforts. To be sure, most of these projects were not designed by celebrated architects.

By 1965, Yamasaki lamented publicly that Pruitt-Igoe was “a job I wish I hadn’t done.” It was spectacularly undone not long afterwards. The first building was imploded on July 15, 1972. The following year the site was fenced off and then torn down, the remaining inhabitants relocated to other (comparable, if less infamous) projects. The Pruitt-Igoe site today at 34 vacant acres remains one of the largest development sites in St. Louis.

In Yamasaki’s 1979 autobiography, A Life in Architecture, he admits more than anyone would care to know about his private life, but makes a glaring omission in his inventory of major projects: it was as if Pruitt-Igoe had never happened. Not a peep about it, aside from an allusion to some buildings that were “just plain bad,” but in the end acted as “forceful reminders that we must do more carefully thought-out work in succeeding commissions.” Lest we come to suspect that Yamasaki is whitewashing his career, he admits to other early failures. A building commissioned in 1951 by the Department of Defense was built without a sprinkler system, and then burned in a spectacular fire. That building, the U.S. Military Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, Missouri, housed 38 million individual service records and 4,000 employees. When it was completed in 1956, the six-story concrete and aluminum behemoth was one of the twenty largest buildings in the world.

Less than twenty years later, in July 1973, a fire tore through the building, burning out of control for more than two days. It was the weekend of the official end of the draft, and the news was all bombs and impeachment. Over the previous two years, the Records Center had reported a dozen small fires, all started intentionally. This one, set shortly after midnight on July 12, appeared to be another case of arson. No one died in the blaze, set when only 50 employees were on duty, but sixteen to eighteen million military personnel files, many of them irreplaceable, were lost. Today, the Personnel Records Center informs those seeking information that, as a result of the fire, it cannot provide access to 80 percent of army files on personnel discharged between 1912 and 1960, as well as 75 percent of air force personnel discharged between 1947 and 1964. Information about hundreds of thousands of veterans vanished from the face of the earth. The building survived.

We might expect to find reason for these professional failures in the misfortune of Yamasaki’s private life. Not surprisingly, the architect’s personal history was punctuated by its own string of disasters. He faced the harsh reality of being a nisei during World War II (relocated to the East Coast, Yamasaki escaped internment) and barely escaped death from a bleeding ulcer (just before completion of the Records Center and Pruitt-Igoe). He left his wife and three children, remarried, married again (a Japanese mail-order bride), and then finally remarried his first wife. Somewhere in between was a period of dismal health involving four operations in five months which left Yamasaki addicted to synthetic morphine. But other 20th century American architects were touched by scandal and personal misfortune without detriment to their designs.....

NiST took just under 7 years, after deliberately not gathering any structural steel samples from WTC 7, or increasing its work force to investigate the collapses of WTC 1 and 2, and the 47 story WTC 7, to conclude that WTC 7 collapsed at nearly free fall speed, just after 5:00 pm on 9/11, as a result of fires fueled by "ordinary office contents." NIST claimed that no fire in WTC 7 burned for more than 20 minutes in any one location, before consuming all available combustibles and then rolling on to adjacent, office content "rich" areas.

The 1973 NPRC fire burned initially with no sprinkler system, with a much more abundant fuel source, for a much longer time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/29/nyregion...l?ex=1115092800

By JAMES GLANZ

Published: November 29, 2001

....."Even though Building 7 didn't get much attention in the media immediately, within the structural engineering community, it's considered to be much more important to understand," said William F. Baker, a partner in charge of structural engineering at the architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill. "They say, `We know what happened at 1 and 2, but why did 7 come down?' "

NIST and the World Trade Center

The analysis focused on the WTC 1 and WTC 2. Although no steel was recovered from WTC 7, a 47-story building that also collapsed on September 11, ...

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/NCSTAR1-3index.htm

14. Why is the NIST investigation of the collapse of WTC 7 (the 47-story office building that collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, hours after the towers) taking so long to complete? Is a controlled demolition hypothesis being considered to explain the collapse?

When NIST initiated the WTC investigation, it made a decision not to hire new staff to support the investigation. After the June 2004 progress report on the WTC investigation was issued, the NIST investigation team stopped working on WTC 7 and was assigned full-time through the fall of 2005 to complete the investigation of the WTC towers.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

American Legion published article in 2007 describes possible government motivation to destroy the records and ongoing

efforts to recover damaged records.

It seems like there was dramatically more combustibles fuleing the 1973 fire. and it burned out of control for days, yet there was no structural steel failure described in the following article. Read the details of the punishment by fire the NPRC building took.:

http://nmcb62alumni.org/scanfire19731.pdf

[PDF] The Blaze of 73

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML

Decades ago, a raging fire at the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis ... looked for evidence of arson, but they never ...

...and, if the will had been there in 1973, there was a way.:

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=hal...&lnav=hist0

Seminar Scheduled On Fire Protection .

Milwaukee Journal - Google News Archive - Aug 7, 1970

Automatic Fire Protection. Systems Corporation of Wis consin will sponsor a free sem inar on Halon 130 1 at 1 Tuesday at Holiday inn-west Hulon 1301 is a ...

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&lr=...=N&start=20

NOAA.‎

United States. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - Nature - 1975

Halon systems are also used in the Pentagon, in banks, and by a major food chain

in its central computer area — places where any loss of data in the ...

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=hal...1&scoring=a

Archive Contains a Wealth on Wealth; Family Archive: a Wealth on …

$3.95 - New York Times - Feb 12, 1977Rockefeller Archive Contains a Wealth on Wealth; Family Archive: a Wealth on Wealth

By ISRAEL SHENKER Special to The New York Times

February 12, 1977, Saturday

If two detectors go off, the vault is flooded with Halon gas. ... Madam's second -floor bedroom has become the archive library; her dress ing room the ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromotrifluoromethane

...It was introduced as an effective gaseous fire suppression agent in the 1960s, and was used around valuable materials, such as aircraft, mainframe computers, and telecommunication switching centers, usually in total flooding systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halomethane#Fire_extinguishing

...Fire extinguishing

...For example, Halon 1301 total flooding systems are typically used at concentrations no higher than 7% v/v in air, and can suppress many fires at 2.9% v/v. By contrast, carbon dioxide fire suppression flood systems are operated from 34% concentration by volume (surface-only combustion of liquid fuels) up to 75% (dust traps). Carbon dioxide can cause severe distress at concentrations of 3 to 6%, and has caused death by respiratory paralysis in a few minutes at 10% concentration. Halon 1301 causes only slight giddiness at its effective concentration of 5%, and even at 15% persons remain conscious but impaired and suffer no long term effects....'

Edited March 17, 2010 by Tom Scully

[Terry Adams]

"So in answer to your question.., I guess there is no answer because we never existed, nor did those covert MI/CIA operations which were alleged by those involved. If that be the case and proves true, then your father was therefore also wrong and perhaps did not exist. Right?"

I think that perhaps your are correct. You nor my father ever existed! I feel that one cannot express the frustration, anger and sadness that goes with making such a statement.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Terry Adams

[William Kelly]

Does anyone know what the F-414-418 docs are? Echivera? And since Rowley is No. 1 in SS and he didn't see them, then what about our friend #2, which reminds me of what #1 SPECTRE does to those who fail, fry them. #1 Rowley here is on the hot seat and the Warren lawyers want to know about these docs that refer to a SS investigation of a Cuba plot in Chicago, that #2 Paul Paterni was investigating.

So our new friend John Machado orders the SS records destroyed that include the records of the Chicago plot that was previously investigated by our other new friend, #2 Paul Paterni in the SS.

Hey Don, Here's some more:

Re: John Machado, the SS official who ordered the destruction of the records.

Machado is mentioned in ARRB files as having corresponded with the ARRB and delivering records to them.

He can't possibly be related to the Machado who ran Cuba before Batista, or Quentin Pio Machado, one of the Cubans who the SS investigated as part of a plot to kill JFK, former Castro diplomat?

Rowley was grilled about JFK Doc. F 414-418. Has anyone see these docs?

More to come on this guy.

Here's a legal court record of him on a sexual harrasment case:

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_p...c?1998cv0817-76

Also See Gus Russo on Quentin Pino Machado :

http://books.google.com/books?id=7Q87Rrxyh...ice&f=false

Relevant News report:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=799&...;pg=6694,800546

ARRB FILES:

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/revie...rman-files.html

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/revie...herd-files.html

(2) James J. Rowley, interviewed by Leodis Matthews for the

House Select Committee of Assassinations (19th September, 1978)

Leodis Matthews: At the time you made that assignment to Inspector Kelley, did you give him any specific instructions of what he should do when he reached Dallas?

James J. Rowley: I did not speak to him, but I am quite sure that Deputy Chief Paterni did. Paterni told him to take charge of the investigation, which was also my thought at the time we decided to send him there.

Leodis Matthews: Soon after Inspector Kelly arrived in Dallas and began his investigation, you received a communique through the mail, an office report, indicating that there had been a Chicago investigation of some Cubans?

James J. Rowley: I did not get that.

Leodis Matthews: Mr. Rowley, let me just call your attention to JFK F-419, a document I believe that I have supplied you earlier.

James J. Rowley: Yes.

Leodis Matthews: Have you had occasion to read through that report?

James J. Rowley: Yes, sir.

Leodis Matthews: That report indicates that you received it shortly after the assassination. It was entitled, "Possible Involvement by Quentin Pino Machado in a Conspiracy to Assassinate JFK." Did you review that report?

James J. Rowley: I do not think I reviewed that report. I did not see my initials on it, so therefore I have to assume I did not review it.

Leodis Matthews: I also call your attention to JFK F-422, a document which you also have in your possession, entitled, "Chicago Investigation of Cuban Groups Alleged To Be Involved in the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy." Do you have any recollection of having received and reviewed that report?

James J. Rowley: I think my initials are on that report which would indicate that I did read it, but I have no immediate recollection.

Leodis Matthews: Did you receive any report about the agents' performance in Dallas?

James J. Rowley: We did receive reports from time to time on Dallas, but which specific report are you referring to?

Leodis Matthews: Well, did you receive a report indicating how the agents had performed at the time that the shooting episode occurred in Dealey Plaza?

James J. Rowley: The report indicated that they performed adequately under the circumstances. The action of Agent Clint Hill, that he was attempting to take some action, is indicative of the agent's response.

Leodis Matthews: Did you play any role in supervising the investigation itself?

James J. Rowley: No, sir.

Leodis Matthews: I want to call your attention to what has been marked as JFK F-423, "Secret Service Organizational Chart," off to your right. In your opinion, would the Service have been organized in substantially the same manner in November of 1963?

James J. Rowley: Yes.

Leodis Matthews: Would Mr. Kelley's position on the chart have indicated that he had authority in the field office to direct that the agents conduct whatever investigation he felt was necessary?

James J. Rowley: Yes, sir, he had that authority...

Leodis Matthews: When the Warren Commission was established, you selected Mr. Kelley to be the liaison person?

James J. Rowley: Yes, sir.

Leodis Matthews: Why did you make that selection?

James J. Rowley: Why? Because it was a natural selection, inasmuch as he was in Dallas to conduct the investigation, and would be familiar with what might be required by the Warren Commission, and therefore would be of great assistance to them.

Leodis Matthews: As Chief of the Secret Service, did you ever make any attempts to meet with the person in charge of the FBI and formulate a strategy for investigation?

James J. Rowley: I did meet with Mr. Hoover and, we reaffirmed the longstanding cooperative relationship between our two agencies.

Leodis Matthews: Did you have any input on a strategy of investigation for the Warren Commission?

James J. Rowley: I think we did prepare something for the Warren Commission. Specifically I do not recall, but I have in the back of my mind such a report.

Leodis Matthews: Mr. Kelley has already testified to some exhibits I would like to identify for the record which you have a copy of: of JFK F-414, of JFK F-415, of JFK F-416, JFK F-417, and JFK F-418, a series of reports which his testimony has indicated involved the Secret Service investigation of the Cuban plot to assassinate the President. Were you aware of those reports during the course of the Warren Commission investigation?

James J. Rowley: No, I have no recollection of them.

Leodis Matthews: Do you have any recollection of having reviewed those documents?

James J. Rowley: No, sir. You mean at that time, or recently?

Leodis Matthews: At the time that the documents were generated.

James J. Rowley: No.

Leodis Matthews: Did you work out any agreement as to which files would be supplied to the Warren Commission?

James J. Rowley: That was left up to Inspector Kelley, since he was the one most familiar with what documents. In fact, he was directed to comply with all the requests that were made by the Commission to the Secret Service for reports...

Harold E. Ford: You mentioned a minute ago to the counsel that you met with the Director, Mr. Hoover, and in talking with him, did you ever discuss the line of investigation and the exchange of intelligence?

James J. Rowley: That was worked out right after the assassination, Mr. Congressman, but we already had their cooperation to the extent that they were able to provide us with intelligence information prior to that time.

Harold E. Ford: You mentioned earlier that you assigned Inspector Thomas Kelley.

James J. Rowley:Yes, sir.

Harold E. Ford: To Dallas for the investigation. Again for the record, why did you assign Mr. Kelley, dispatch him to the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

James J. Rowley: I assigned Mr. Kelley because he was the nearest inspector to Dallas at that time. As I explained previously since time was of the essence, I wanted to send an inspector as quickly as possible, and Mr. Kelly was the closest one. One of the responsibilities of an inspector is to do precisely what Mr. Kelly did in Dallas, direct the investigation and the activities.

Harold E. Ford: Was he there to investigate who may have been involved in the assassination or to review the performance of the Secret Service in connection with the assassination?

James J. Rowley: He was there to become involved in the investigation to determine the facts surrounding the assassination.

Harold E. Ford: Mr. Rowley, you testified before the Warren Commission June 18 of 1964. At that time in your testimony you were asked by Senator Cooper the following questions, and I quote: "Do you have any information based upon any facts that you know based upon any information given to you by persons who claim to have personal knowledge that there were persons engaged in a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy." And your response was, "I have no such facts, sir." He then asked you the following additional question, and I quote:

"I address the same question as to whether you have any information that the killing of President Kennedy had any connection with any foreign power." Your response was, and I quote: "I have no such information."

We have heard testimony from Mr. Kelley indicating that there were assassination plots investigated by the Secret Service in early 1963. Were you aware of those investigations at the time of your testimony before the Warren Commission?

James J. Rowley: I would have to look at the reports themselves, Mr. Congressman, to see whether my initials were on them. In the reports that you speak of, it was established that there was not any activity directed against--or of interest to us as it affected the President of the United States.

Harold E. Ford: Going back to the first question, you said, "I have no such facts, sir." " The second question you also said, I have no such information." I am asking now, were you aware of those investigations at the time you appeared before the Warren Commission?

James J. Rowley: Well, if I made that statement, then I was not aware of those facts.

Harold E. Ford: I would like counsel to give the witness JFK F-416, F417, F-418, and ask the witness whether his initials appear upon the face of these reports.

James J. Rowley: Yes, sir.

Harold E. Ford: Chief Rowley, why did you not call it to the Warren Commission's attention back in 1964 when you appeared before the Commission?

Chief Rowley. This information at the time was handled either by the PRS or through Mr. Kelley, and I can only assume, Mr. Congressman, that these reports were furnished to the Warren Commission.

Harold E. Ford: The reports in your hand were reported?

James J. Rowley: That is right. It was an ongoing investigation, as I see it, in which case there would be a relationship with the FBI and the CIA, and in the ultimate I would think that the report itself would establish whether or not it affected the safety of the President of the United States.

Harold E. Ford: But you had initialed these reports or documents prior to the June 18, 1964 appearance before the Warren Commission; is that correct?

James J. Rowley: That is correct, sir.

[William Kelly]

I recently received copies of the Secret Service records that Gerald Blaine refers to in his book "The Kennedy Detail" and turned over to the NARA.

I've posted some of them at my blog and will post the rest when I can.

More to come - Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2012/12/xsecret-service-records-thought.html

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2012/12/gerald-blaines-handwritten-notes.html

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-tampa-survey-report.html

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2012/12/implimenting-arrb-recommendations.html

Also see: http://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com

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[William Kelly]

I don't know why we need three threads on this.

But, looking at what you have scanned here, this certainly does not com;y with what Blaine said he had. And does not at all contravene Bolden.

SO what was he talking about?

Yea, maybe a monitor can merge them.

And Blaine's documents certainly don't change anything that Bolden has to say. I think he was trying to say Bolden was wrong about the records being destroyed because he has them. And I don't believe that he only turned over 28 pages when he says in the book that he had TWO BOXES of records, one box labeled 1963. I think there's more out there, or a lot of docs are still falling into the black hole.

While there aren't any smoking docs here, I think they can tell us somethings new and lead to more records that are sill out there. I'll bet if Blaine kept two boxes of records, every agent kept what they had too, and the two boxes of records that were destroyed, knowing the titles of their contents, can be reassembled from the existing records that can be found elsewhere.

BK

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