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Guest James H. Fetzer

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

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Judyth suffers from Munchausen's syndome.

"FACTITIOUS DISORDER, (of which MUNCHAUSEN SYNDROME is a sub-type), (also called "Adult Munchausen", and "Adult Factitious Disorder") is a formal, DSM-IV mental health diagnosis in which people deliberately exaggerate and/or fabricate and/or induce physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems in themselves. The primary purpose of this behavior is to gain some form of internal gratification, such as attention, for themselves."

I'm quite surprised to essentially agree with Jack. She simply isn't credible but she isn't claiming to suffer from"physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems".Nor is she the only "JFK researcher" who claims with out any supporting evidence to have been force into exile in Europe.

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You are either with us or against us. It is that simple.

Then im against you/them

I dont believe one word Judyth Baker says

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The only truth that I have been able to find is that she was a good science student and that she did work at Riley Coffee, when LHO also was working there. Dixie

So it looks to me that you agree with half of what I do. What is significant in my mind is that this was not disclosed in the Warren or any other government report.

Someone who worked with the alleged assassin of JFK has a lot to contribute and should have been questioned long ago.

She goes a long way in making the "lone nut loser" myth seem absurd, and I think those who are covering this up know that as well.

Edited by Peter McGuire

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Peter, Reading Dixie's further posts convinces me I should add a few words about Judyth. The first point we should appreciate is that she is a WITNESS, not a student of JFK. Her role is completely different. There are many reasons why her reports based upon her personal relationship might differ in various respects from those who have studied the case extensively. When there is a conflict between other sources and Judyth, for example, that does not guarantee that those other sources are right and she is wrong. More serious, of course, are inconsistencies that may arise in relation to her own story. That is another matter and has to be weighed.

As for her remarks that Lee was a "good shot", how do most of the members of this forum know? Persumably, it is because they have read those words somewhere. My situation is different. As a Marine Corps officer, I spent June 1964 to June 1965 as a series commander responsible for 300 recruits and 15 DIs as they passed through the training cycle at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego, which included marksmanship training at Edson Range in Camp Pendleton, located about 35 miles to the north. Marksmanship training was not only something I received in the course of my training but also an activity that I supervised as a Marine officer.

There are three ratings for marksmanship skill, which are based upon a total of 250 possible points across five different combinations of distance and position at 200, 300, and 500 yards. A bulls eye counts five points, the closest circle, four, and so forth, where missing the target completely typically brings about the waving of a white flag, known as "Maggie's drawers". To qualify and not have to continue with marksmanship training, you must fire at least 190, where a score between 190 and 209 qualifies you as a "Marksman", between 210 and 219, as a "Sharpshooter" and between 220 and 250, as an "Expert". All Marines must qualify every year.

In 1957, Oswald shot a 212, which qualified him as a "Sharpshooter". That is reasonably good shooting, a score in the range that I myself attained (where one year, but only one, as I recall, I quaified as "Expert"). But in 1958 he did not qualify at all, which is very odd. And in 1959, he barely qualified with a 191. Those working the pits are keeping track of a shooter's score, of course, and it has been known to happen that, if the last shot made the difference between qualifying and not, they might give the shooter the benefit of the doubt. But there can be no doubt that, with a 191 in 1959, he was a poor shot, which his fellow Marines would all have known.

But that does not meant that he would have told a prospective girlfriend as much, where it is more likely that he might have said that, when he was in recruit training, he had shot 212 and qualified as a "Sharpshooter". That is hardly the only exaggeration that young Marines have been know to tell young women who interested them. So I think Judyth's report needs to be understood in context. What is actually far more fascinating to me as a former Marine is that in 1958 he did not qualify at all, which is in violation of a general order that applies to all Marines, from the highest ranking general to the lowest private--even including the Commandant of the Corps.

This suggests to me that he was on some kind of special assignment that permitted this exception, which, as I assume most of us appreciate, was probably learning Russian at the Defense Language Institute at Monterey Bay, CA. Many sources offer information supporting his recruitment by the Office of Naval Intelligence, where I include Phil Melanson, SPY SAGA, and John Newman, OSWALD AND THE CIA. There are other aspects of his Marine Corp record that are also remarkable, such as acquiring a sexually-transmitted disease while stationed in Japan as "in the line of duty", which is a singular instance of which I recall during my four-year tour of duty.

Now if we assume that Judyth actually knew Lee in New Orleans, as she claims, then how much of a threat could she pose to the official story? During our brief interview, for example, I asked her about his interest in the radio program, "I Led Three Lives", about the exploits of Herbert Philbrick as an undercover operative for the FBI, who infiltrated the Community Party USA from 1940 to 1949. His mother had reported it was one of his favorite programs, which she (Judyth) confirmed. (I can remember listening to it as a kid myself!) Her responses were natural and unaffected and to the point, with many details that she appeared to be able to recall effortlessly.

What Judyth has to say about Lee simply blows the official account out of the water, as Peter observes. What is most interesting to the public, I suspect, is that they had a personal relationship. Americans have a fascination with the personal lives of celebrities, from the most famous to the most notorious, as any reader of The National Enquirer or The Globe can attest. I believe the public would find her story quite fascinating and revealing of a man who did not fit the "demented lone-assassin" scenario, even remotely. That, I believe, is what makes her such a threat. If she is legit, then she has the resources--and a story to tell--that destroys the Oswald myth.

Now Jack, Rich, and others I respect have come to the conclusion that Judyth is a bit off-her-nut, which is clearly one possibility. But if Judyth is actually demented, then I am at a loss to explain the massive effort that has been expended to make her a non-entity in relation to Google, YouTube, and even Wikipedia. Her existence has been virtually erased from public records in an effort that continues to this day. I have been studying this case for nearly two decades, but I only received my first "death threat" when I began a blog on Judyth. My interview with her on JamesFetzerNews was initially posted, then deleted, from its YouTube listing. Go to my blog about her and ask why anyone should be subject to such extreme and persistent forms of abuse if they were a "nut job"?

These and other circumstances have convinced me that Judyth is "the real deal". I am not alone in drawing that inference, since Jim Marrs and Nigel Turner, among others, are also among those who believe in her. That is not the same thing as to claim that everything she has to say about Lee is therefore true. If she is the person she claims to be in relation to him, then it would make sense that there would be a disinfo op to demonize her and attempt to convince the public--but especially those within the JFK research community--that she is not worth taking seriously. I see signs of such an op and that it has largely succeeded. But I, for now, am not buying it.

The only truth that I have been able to find is that she was a good science student and that she did work at Riley Coffee, when LHO also was working there. Dixie

So it looks to me that you agree with half of what I do. What is significant in my mind is that this was not disclosed in the Warren or any other government report.

Someone who worked with the alleged assassin of JFK has a lot to contribute and should have been questioned long ago.

She goes a long way in making the "lone nut loser" myth seem absurd, and I think those who are covering this up know that as well.

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

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The only truth that I have been able to find is that she was a good science student and that she did work at Riley Coffee, when LHO also was working there. Dixie

So it looks to me that you agree with half of what I do. What is significant in my mind is that this was not disclosed in the Warren or any other government report.

Someone who worked with the alleged assassin of JFK has a lot to contribute and should have been questioned long ago.

She goes a long way in making the "lone nut loser" myth seem absurd, and I think those who are covering this up know that as well.

About 100 people worked at Reily Coffee at the same time Oswald did. She worked in the office. He was a greaser and oiler maintenance person. The WC did interview some from Reily who knew and worked with Oswald, like Emmett Barbe, who was Oswald's supervisor and the one who wanted him fired. I don't know if the WC put out an "all call" to Reily employees for anyone who knew him or might have some information on him. There is no indication, anywhere, that Oswald and Judyth even knew one another beyond the possibility of being nodding fellow employees.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Judyth sent this in relation to the question about Herbert Philbrick. It is

inconceivable to me that she would have stored something like this away

were what she is telling us not at least partially truthful. And if you know

that her unfinished manuscript was stolen--already stunning if she is just

a flake!--then you know it could have been salted with false claims that

could be shown to be inconsistent with documents and thereby disproven.

14jmhdw.jpg

Maybe you're right, Jack, and it wouldn't be the first time I am wrong. I

am listening to what you are telling me, but must assess it for myself, as

is the case for every other aspect of the assassination. I have received a

file from Judy that pertains to what I have had to say, but I am unable to

upload it because, I am being told, it is too large. May I send it to you to

see if you could upload it on my behalf? I will send it to you now by email.

Jim...

You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Guest James H. Fetzer

This woman has a lot of nerve! After dealing with her for years, I have found

for a certainty that she posts a lot of absolute rubbish! Not for nothing is her

name a variation on 'junk'! If I had to choose between Judyth and Barbara,

Judyth is the more reliable source--hands down! It is no contest--not even a

close call. That she should appear as an expert on Judyth is simply nauseating.

Allow me a partial paraphrase. Barb is good, very good ... she is very intelligent

. . . , and she always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. Most of her

supporters are men--Tink, Lamson, Colby, and others. But do some simple fact

checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart. For a sample, compare her

posts about the spiral nebula in the limo's windshield with my evidence summary.

Barb won't deal with the evidence there and I find her presence here incredible!

Judyth has been hassled and her life made virtually intolerable. She not only

lost positions but was unable to complete her Ph.D. because of the unrelenting

barrage of complaints and harassment. If she isn't "the real deal", then why is

this campaign aginst her? Why am I receiving "death threats" when I start to

support her? Why was the YouTube listing of my interview deleted immediately?

I have never received a death threat before in nearly two decades of research

on JFK. Now I and my webmaster are not even allowed to post comments on

YouTube and other sites. A set of emails we sent to newspapers and magazines

in New Hampshire appraising them of the Hany Farid case were rejected across

the board. We send ten and ten were bounced. The new factor in this is Judyth.

Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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No one can save you from yourself, Fetzer. Jack gave you good advice. I gave a few specific examples, and if you know anything about me at all, you know that I don't post things like that unless I have the goods to back them up. Poor Judyth, always the victim ... all those accidents and injuries and crimes against her ... breakins, stealing her property, her hard drives, etc. And nary a police report or documentation anywhere. But suit yourself, as you always do. don't believe me. Do some actual fact checking of your own. Yeah, right. You and Judyth are actually perfect for one another.

Bests,

Barb :-)))))

This woman has a lot of nerve! After dealing with her for years, I have found

for a certainty that she posts a lot of absolute rubbish! Not for nothing is her

name a variation on 'junk'! If I had to choose between Judyth and Barbara,

Judyth is the more reliable source--hands down! It is no contest--not even a

close call. That she should appear as an expert on Judyth is simply nauseating.

Allow me a partial paraphrase. Barb is good, very good ... she is very intelligent

. . . , and she always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. Most of her

supporters are men--Tink, Lamson, Colby, and others. But do some simple fact

checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart. For a sample, compare her

posts about the spiral nebula in the limo's windshield with my evidence summary.

Barb won't deal with the evidence there and I find her presence here incredible!

Judyth has been hassled and her life made virtually intolerable. She not only

lost positions but was unable to complete her Ph.D. because of the unrelenting

barrage of complaints and harassment. If she isn't "the real deal", then why is

this campaign aginst her? Why am I receiving "death threats" when I start to

support her? Why was the YouTube listing of my interview deleted immediately?

I have never received a death threat before in nearly two decades of research

on JFK. Now I and my webmaster are not even allowed to post comments on

YouTube and other sites. A set of emails we sent to newspapers and magazines

in New Hampshire appraising them of the Hany Farid case were rejected across

the board. We send ten and ten were bounced. The new factor in this is Judyth.

Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Judyth sent this in relation to the question about Herbert Philbrick. It is

inconceivable to me that she would have stored something like this away

were what she is telling us not at least partially truthful. And if you know

that her unfinished manuscript was stolen--already stunning if she is just

a flake!--then you know it could have been salted with false claims that

could be shown to be inconsistent with documents and thereby disproven.

14jmhdw.jpg

Barb Junkkarienen is about as big a fraud as I have encountered on this

forum short of Thompson, Lamson, and Colby. I invite anyone who wants

a recent example of her phony arguments to review the exchanges on the

Weldon thread, where the evidence that supports a through-and-through

hole in the windshield is extensive, diverse, and convergent, encompassing

medial, photographic, and acoustical evidence, which Barb simply ignores.

She is a nasty piece of work who tries to come across as a voice of reason.

I frankly prefer the likes of Thompson, Lamson, and Colby, who make less

of a pretense to be searching for truth when their role is the obfuscation of

evidence. It is pathetic that she continues to post, year after year, when she

have been shown to be wrong again and again. If she were serious about

any of this, she would deal honestly with the limo evidence, but she won't!

No one can save you from yourself, Fetzer. Jack gave you good advice. I gave a few specific examples, and if you know anything about me at all, you know that I don't post things like that unless I have the goods to back them up. Poor Judyth, always the victim ... all those accidents and injuries and crimes against her ... breakins, stealing her property, her hard drives, etc. And nary a police report or documentation anywhere. But suit yourself, as you always do. don't believe me. Do some actual fact checking of your own. Yeah, right. You and Judyth are actually perfect for one another.

Bests,

Barb :-)))))

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Barb does a great job of trash talking, including about Judyth's success as a

student. But there are multiple indications that her (Junkkarinen's) research

was sloppy. Consider, for example, articles about Judyth Vary as a student:

51d66h.jpg

20h51si.jpg

533eib.jpg

Now we know that at least some of what Judyth has been saying about her

background is true and at least some of what Junkkarinen has been saying

is false. The question becomes, is Barb merely sloppy or a bona fide fraud?

Jim...

You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Judyth suffers from Munchausen's syndome.

"FACTITIOUS DISORDER, (of which MUNCHAUSEN SYNDROME is a sub-type), (also called "Adult Munchausen", and "Adult Factitious Disorder") is a formal, DSM-IV mental health diagnosis in which people deliberately exaggerate and/or fabricate and/or induce physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems in themselves. The primary purpose of this behavior is to gain some form of internal gratification, such as attention, for themselves."

I'm curious to know if Jack White is a psychologist, psychiatrist, physician, or psychotherapist ?????

Do folks on this site now diagnose characters so easily? Should there not be a proper modicum of

respect for others? One can have problems or questions about other people without resorting to

publicly diagnosing them medically or mentally... Do not some members of this very forum seek to gain

some form of internal gratification by posting information? I think it's a sad day when people resort to this

type of tactic. I myself have questions about Ms. Baker but I would never act to diagnose her on a public

forum; this not for the reason that she could file civil suit for slander, but simply because people deserve a proper degree of respect

regardless their personal beliefs. In general, just because a person is legally insane does not mean that they

can't be correct about certain things. I must say, what a herd of individuals we have here on this forum.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Nice post, Hank! I appreciate your speaking out. PLUS would anyone in the world WANT the kind of

"attention" that Judyth has drawn with unceasing harassment, attemtps to take her out, and smears

of the most ignoble kind? And now that I beginning to speak up on her behalf, I receive a death threat

of my own? and the notice of my YouTube interview with her is removed minutes after it had been put

up? and now I cannot get comments posted or submissions even received by papers and magazines?

No one is commenting on this, but to me it speaks volumes about the authenticity of Judyth's account.

With regard to the purported "diagosis", which I had also received from Rich--where I have no reason

to doubt either of their sincerity, unlike others on this forum and thread--notice how it has the ring of

desperation about it. No matter what Judyth might claim, no matter how much she might resemble the

persons she claims to be, it can be dismissed on the ground that she suffers from a rather bizarre and

no doubt quite rare psychological disorder, where she pretends to be someone she is not. Well, that's

fascinating, but could someone like that function successfully in a standard environment as a teacher?

That seems rather doubtful, yet here is the letter of a student who wanted her to be retained when she

became controversial:

2my554h.jpg

It might be claimed that student would not be in the position to render such a diagnosis. Well, then, how

about a professional one:

u8w1x.jpg

I rather doubt that some who post junk on this forum could pass a psychological inventory as successfully

as Judyth. So I think we should all take a deep breath and open our minds to the POSSIBILITY, however

unlikely we may view it at this time, that Jim Marrs, Nigel Turner, and I JUST MIGHT BE RIGHT and that

Judyth's legions of detractors MIGHT JUST BE WRONG. Open your mind to the possibility and consider the

evidence before you decide. My contact with her is of relatively recent origin, yet I am learning things from

her that I find quite remarkable and highly plausible. Just try listening to my interview with her once again.

Judyth suffers from Munchausen's syndome.

"FACTITIOUS DISORDER, (of which MUNCHAUSEN SYNDROME is a sub-type), (also called "Adult Munchausen", and "Adult Factitious Disorder") is a formal, DSM-IV mental health diagnosis in which people deliberately exaggerate and/or fabricate and/or induce physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems in themselves. The primary purpose of this behavior is to gain some form of internal gratification, such as attention, for themselves."

I'm curious to know if Jack White is a psychologist, psychiatrist, physician, or psychotherapist ?????

Do folks on this site now diagnose characters so easily? Should there not be a proper modicum of

respect for others? One can have problems or questions about other people without resorting to

publicly diagnosing them medically or mentally... Do not some members of this very forum seek to gain

some form of internal gratification by posting information? I think it's a sad day when people resort to this

type of tactic. I myself have questions about Ms. Baker but I would never act to diagnose her on a public

forum; this not for the reason that she could file civil suit for slander, but simply because people deserve a proper degree of respect

regardless their personal beliefs. In general, just because a person is legally insane does not mean that they

can't be correct about certain things. I must say, what a herd of individuals we have here on this forum.

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Barb does a great job of trash talking, including about Judyth's success as a

student. But there are multiple indications that her (Junkkarinen's) research

was sloppy. Consider, for example, articles about Judyth Vary as a student:

51d66h.jpg

20h51si.jpg

533eib.jpg

Now we know that at least some of what Judyth has been saying about her

background is true and at least some of what Junkkarinen has been saying

is false. The question becomes, is Barb merely sloppy or a bona fide fraud?

Pay attention, Fetzer. I noted that Judyth was an outstanding high school science student .... she made it all the way to the National Science Fair in Indianapolis as a junior with a project on extracting magnesium from salt water. She earned many honors in science in high school. She did also attend the Roswell Park summer program ... one of the articles you posted. Well, she attended until she was dismissed from the program anyway. And that Bacteriology abstract? Ask Judyth where she got it?? :-) In a couple of her ramblings around the net she actually thanked me for it. I found that when I was researching her claim about having presented a paper to the Indiana Biological Association when she was a fresman at St. Francis College in Indiana. What I discovered, is that no Indiana Biological Association exists, nor has it ever existed, but a couple biology professors, one from the college she attended even, suggested I might be looking for a different organization that did exist ... and still does. I got to know the secretary (an immunology professor at Ball State) and the librarian ... and wah-lah ... she was a co-presenter, no full paper, abstract only, with one her nun professors at her college. There is some ongoing stuff related to this. Two weeks after this presentation, she suddenly left the college. Her transcript, I spoke to the registrar, shows "withdrawn" from all classes. Judyth has told 2 different (very vivid with details) stories about when she left ... and said that her parents yanked her from school in the middle of the night because she wanted to be a nun (Catholic college). Her transcipt has a note attached to it that the registrar is unable to disclose ... only Judyth can permit that. I was able to ascertain that there's nothing about a problem because she wanted to be a nun in the note. You might ask Judyth why she doesn't just get that note released and clear a few things up on this. Good luck on that one. :-)

My findings ran in a series for months ... all documented to the nth degree. They are no secret and they were much discussed and lauded, and a couple others joined in doing some fact checking and volunteering to do anything they could to help me. You might ask Rich what he thought about the work and posts I was doing at that time. :-)

You are correct about one thing ... you do need to do some checking. Might consider that it's perhaps better to do that before shooting your mouth off all over the place. LOL

BTW, Anthony Marsh put all of the "evidence" and "documentation" Judyth had provided to Martin Shackelford on his website so everyone could see it. It all may be still there, I do not know, but much of it used to be on a Judyth site maintained by Ed Haslam as well. Other than documentation that she actually did work at Reily's and assorted clipping about her high school science achievements and the like, there are bits and scraps that she wraps stories around that really don't document anything at all.

For anyone actually interested, there is a lot of info out there. :-)

Bests,

Barb :-)

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