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Guest James H. Fetzer

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

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Judyth sent this in relation to the question about Herbert Philbrick. It is

inconceivable to me that she would have stored something like this away

were what she is telling us not at least partially truthful. And if you know

that her unfinished manuscript was stolen--already stunning if she is just

a flake!--then you know it could have been salted with false claims that

could be shown to be inconsistent with documents and thereby disproven.

14jmhdw.jpg

Maybe you're right, Jack, and it wouldn't be the first time I am wrong. I

am listening to what you are telling me, but must assess it for myself, as

is the case for every other aspect of the assassination. I have received a

file from Judy that pertains to what I have had to say, but I am unable to

upload it because, I am being told, it is too large. May I send it to you to

see if you could upload it on my behalf? I will send it to you now by email.

Jim...

You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Jim...before you proceed any further with the I LED THREE LIVES lie of Robert

Oswald, I urge you to read page 42 of HARVEY & LEE by John Armstrong, where

John thoroughly DEBUNKS the I LED THREE LIVES fiction. The show premiered

a year later than LHO could have seen it!

JVB is a hot potato. Drop her without getting further into the swamp of aligators.

Jack

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JVB has scads of charming stories about her "romance" with LHO...but NONE OF THEM ARE DOCUMENTED.

Her stories about Carlos Marcello getting involved in the "two month relationship" is patently absurd and

seems to be an attempt to paint the old reliable MAFIA DID IT canard.

Jim...get her FULL manuscript and check it out against known facts before committing additional involvement.

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Her story of the midnight call from the laundromat talking about the impending assassination was ridiculous,

and opens her to charges of ACCESSORY BEFORE THE FACT.

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

OK, Bill. Here is a response from Judyth Vary Baker. I must say, Bill, that if Judyth is right, you are wrong, but, then, you like to write about subjects where your actual research has been paper-thin, I'm sorry to say.

JVB: William Kelly makes the argument over at Education Forum that I have "no new evidence and no new witnesses".

This is not true, though he always states this.

1) New witness Anna Lewis, who states Lee Oswald was in New Orleans in 1962, which her husband also stated. I agree. This is against the official record. Anna Lewis, besides testifying about me and Lee, also went on to say that she overheard her husband David Lewis asking Lee about how the Get-Castro project was working--would they be trying to shoot him, or what--and Lee told him, "We have that (the project) taken care of."

2) Edward T. Haslam has verified the Get-Castro project, a bioweapon, on which we were working in New Orleans. Kelly ignores this completely. How Lee was manipulated into going to Mexico City is lost on Kelly. How Lee managed to be sent back to Dallas and how all this occurred, is in my book, which Kelly has not read, not even the unauthorized versions, where that information was intact.

2) New witness Charles Thomas, verified by the Thomas family, as the person who expedited Lee's passport in only 24 hours. Thomas also knew Lee in New York.

3) New witness William 'Mac' McCullough, Mafia associate, who observed me with Lee and who verified that we were lovers in New Orleans. He knew information about Marcello that backs up what new things I have to say about David Ferrie and the Marcello relationship.

4) New witness William Livesay, who supports the fact that prisoners were experimented on at East LA State Mental Hospital in 1963, after which people finally looked and verified other similar experiments. He was experimented on. He was a state witness in court about such experiments on a fellow prisoner who received brain damage.

5) Dr. Alton Ochsner was not even in the assassination records...he was ignored...nobody knew that Ochsner had been on an arrest list by garrison...nobody knew that Ochsner had been in charge of Kennedy's visit to New Orleans -- a doctor, mind you -- in 1962. I had to prove his links to Clay Shaw, since they were merely thought to 'know' each other...I have proven they were close friends for over 9 years running the International Trade Mart together, with newspaper archive backing it! It was not even known with whom he was associated...I have proven connections that directly link him to Kennedy's assassination.

[NOTE: In Judyth's original post to me about this, she said they ran the "International House" together. So I wrote to ask if she meant "House" or "Trade Mart", and she has written back to me as follows:

THEY MANAGED THE INTERNATIONAL HOUSE TOGETHER. ON MARCH 23, 1962, OCHSNER RELEASED CLAY SHAW AS MANAGING DIRECTOR AND HIRED MR. FABRY FORM VOICE OF AMERICA AND ALSO AN FBI AGENT, TO RUN IH. I DO HAVE THE ARTICLE SOMEWHERE, FROM TIMES-PICAYUNE, AND MY EDITOR HAS IT. ALSO, ED HASLAM SHOULD HAVE IT. I WILL SEND IT WHEN I FIND IT.

THAT WAS THE BEGINNING. . . .

SHAW HAD BEEN THERE OVER 9 YEARS, USUALLY AS MANAGER, WITH OCHSNER AS PRESIDENT. I KNEW THE DATE OF THE ARTICLE BY HEART BECAUSE LEE SHOWED IT TO ME AS THE DATE THEY BEGAN THE GET-CASTRO PROJECT. OCHSNER WANTED SHAW REMIOVED FROM IH AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS BECAUSE HE WAS DISTANCING HIMSELF PUBLICALLY FROM SHAW, WHO WOULD BE FINANCING A LOT OF THE PROJECT, AND WHICH IS WHY LEE AND I GOT MONEY FOR HOTELS, AMONG OTHER FUNDING THAT WAS GOING ON.]

6) I have proven Reily's cooperation with Oswald as per records never noticed before, such as irregular clock-ins, but precise clock-outs.

7) I stated that Lee Oswald tried to save the president before anyone else ever mentioned such a possibility, back in 1999, and that Lee had penetrated the Dallas-based assassination ring.

8) I was the woman seen in the car by Mary Morgan when Lee spoke with her father, Reeves Morgan, a guard at the East LA S MH and also a sate representative. I was the woman seen in the same vehicle when Lee entered Lea McGeHee's barbershop for directions to get to the mental hospital.

9) I have been able to use my knowledge of the event to pin down the exact date of the Clinton and the Jackson trips, which were two separate trips--a problem that had the community of researchers raging, because they could not separate reports of Lee driving an old car--and reports of his being with a woman--especially when others said he could not drive--which was false--and the fact that he was seen in a black Cadillac in Clinton with Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, and a third person whose identity I have been able to confirm based upon the logistics involved. No other person has ever come forward claiming to be that woman except for me.

10) I was in contact with Lee as late as only 37 1/2 hours before the assassination. We now have much evidence to prove this, due to the phone call I made to him that got recorded, and his call back, all circumstantial but nevertheless strong evidence.

11) I told Joan Mellen that Lee was working with Customs and mentioned Charles Thomas and others. She took this information and, without giving me credit, published it three years later, as Dr. Howard Platzman would be glad to confirm. (He has even written an essay about it.) Mellen published that Lee worked with Customs in New Orleans (and Dallas, BTW). But I am the one who broke through and proved it with my new witness.

12) My statements that Guy Banister was in contact with Bobby Kennedy was finally backed up by new emerging evidence.

I stated things, many things, which have turned out to be true. They were ignored by people like Bill Kelly.

Perhaps the most important new piece of information that I have offered is the fact that Lee Oswald held his ground and gave his life trying to save Kennedy, saying that some other person would have taken his place. We now know that there were backup patsies in line. Recently, in JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, by James Douglass, Abraham Bolden's testimony revealed that an informant named "Lee" had saved Kennedy's life in Chicago. I had reported that Lee told me he saved Kennedy's life in 1999 by sending information not only by telex but by direct telephone calls as well.

13) Due to my close association with Sydney Wilkinson and after urging her to help me prove Lee's innocence, she finally believed in me after our long association and purchased a true copy of the Zapruder film, gathered analysts in Hollywood who were film restoration specialists, and proved that the Zapruder film had frames with the back of JFK's head painted over in black--and much more, which she revealed to Doug Horne in his book INSIDE THE ARRB.

Would Sydney Wilkinson have purchased the film and done this research had we not met? She saw me in TMWKK THE LOVE AFFAIR and contacted me. We have been close friends ever since, and she has copies of all my evidence and film rights as well.

Now, have I done nothing?

TO ACCUSE ME, ON TOP THAT, OF TRYING TO GET ATTENTION-- JIM, THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP IN CONTACT. THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO COLLECT EVIDENCE PROVING LEE'S INNOCENCE. AND HOPEFULLY I HAVE ENCOURAGED ALL OF YOU.

IF I'D BEEN SUCH AN ATTENTION-SEEKER, WHY DID I WAIT OVER 35 YEARS? WHY SAVE ALL THE EVIDENCE SUCH AS THOSE REILY CHECK STUBS AND EVEN A GREEN GLASS, YET SAID NOTHING ALL THOSE YEARS.

I HAVE DONE THIS BECAUSE LEE OSWALD'S DEATH MUST NOT HAVE BEEN IN VAIN.

I GUESS BILL KELLY WOULD SAY I SHOULD NEVER HAVE SAID A WORD.

I GUESS JACK WHITE CAN JUST JOIN ALL THE OTHERS IN ASSUMING I'M INSANE.

THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO INTERVIEW SUCH A PERSON AS MYSELF IN PERSON. NIGEL TURNER DID IT AND MADE A FILM. PETER DEVRIES DID IT AND MADE A FILM. WIM DANKBAAR DID IT AND MADE A FILM. "SIXTY MINUTES" SCHEDULED FILMING THREE TIMES, BUT DAN RATHER STOPPED THEM.

I HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY MORE FILMING.

By the way, the reason The Education Forum's JFK forum exists is because I wrote to John Simkin and asked him to form it. He did, and for some time I posted there, until Jack White and others began attacking me. Understand, Jack has never met me. Debra Conway and David Lifton did a great job of influencing people early on. They will claim my posts to DellaRosa's forum were wacky--but they erased them, so I can't prove they were not.

Yes, I wrote a great deal. At my age, who knows when the very last words are written?

I did not know if I would be around long after 2003.

Little did I realize that trying to clear Lee's name by speaking out would be used against me to accuse me of attention-seeking and even insanity. When I was quiet, I was accused of having no defense against the jibes and attacks and must therefore have been lying.

The strategy, therefore, has been to get Lee's biography online and to support the truth about Lee in every way possible.

I loved him. Saw him killed before my eyes. It makes something deep inside burn hot that never is quenched. They killed him, and vilified him. He was a good man. Lola, you said he was a good-looking man. Yes, he was, with a cute smile and a hearty way of laughing--just like Jim, Doctor Jim....He could be so funny!

He didn't want to die. But he was no coward.

YouTube: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews

Judyth Vary Baker, with whom I and some others within the JFK community are in contact, lives in exile due to persecution in the US because of what she knows as a witness concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. The covert operation against Judyth is very serious and takes its toll upon her. She is now 66 years of age and has been forced to live in exile in Europe, where she resides in virtual poverty, even though she is a talented artist who has sold her paintings around the world for more than thirty years. The objective of this campaign appears to be to minimize awareness of her existence as a link to the alleged assassin.

My Blog: Judyth Vary Baken: Living in Exile

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-in-exile.html

,

I have no doubt whatsoever that she met Lee Oswald, worked with him and was his girlfriend. The fact that she had to be discredited and live in hiding works in her favor.

Not believing her is like insisting that the backyard photos are not fake, and at the same time "believing in conspiracy."

I am going to start taking a hard line on those with those sitting on the fence.

You are either with us or against us. It is that simple.

Well, Count me against you.

There is nothing that she has to say that leads to any new witnesses or records, nothing she has said that is new or dangerous to anybody, and she is not being persecuted for anything, as the calamidies that have befallen her are of her own making.

Those who really know something that is dangerous try to keep thier names off the internet, not complain that somebody must be errasing the internet records of her exploits.

Fraud or no fraud, she doesn't add anything new to what we already know, so why bother with her at all?

Somebody ought to make a dramatic soap opera of her whole life and then we wouldn't have to watch it.

If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

OK, Bill. Here is a response from Judyth Vary Baker. I must say, Bill, that if Judyth is right, you are wrong, but, then, you like to write about subjects where your actual research has been paper-thin, I'm sorry to say.

JVB: William Kelly makes the argument over at Education Forum that I have "no new evidence and no new witnesses".

This is not true, though he always states this.

1) New witness Anna Lewis, who states Lee oswald was in New orleans in 1962, which her husband also stated. I agree. This is against the official record. Anna Lewis, besides testifying about me and Lee, also went on to say that she overheard her husband David Lewis asking Lee about how the Get-Castro project was working--would they be trying to shoot him, or what--and Lee told him, "We have that (the project) taken care of."

2) Edward T. Haslam has verified the Get-Castro project, a bioweapon, on which we were working in New Orleans. Kelly ignores this completely. How Lee was manipulated into going to Mexico City is lost on Kelly. How Lee managed to be sent back to Dallas and how all this occurred, is in my book, which Kelly has not read, not even the unauthorized versions, where that information was intact.

2) New witness Charles Thomas, verified by the Thomas family, as the person who expedited Lee's passport in only 24 hours. Thomas also knew Lee in New York.

3) New witness William 'Mac' McCullough, Mafia associate, who observed me with Lee and who verified that we were lovers in New Orleans. He knew information about Marcello that backs up what new things I have to say about David Ferrie and the Marcello relationship.

4) New witness William Livesay, who supports the fact that prisoners were experimented on at East LA State Mental Hospital in 1963, after which people finally looked and verified other similar experiments. He was experimented on. He was a state witness in court about such experiments on a fellow prisoner who received brain damage.

5) Dr. Alton Ochsner was not even in the assassination records...he was ignored...nobody knew that Ochsner had been on an arrest list by garrison...nobody knew that Ochsner had been in charge of Kennedy's visit to New Orleans -- a doctor, mind you -- in 1962. I had to prove his links to Clay Shaw, since they were merely thought to 'know' each other...I have proven they were close friends for over 9 years running the International Trade Mart together, with newspaper archive backing it! It was not even known with whom he was associated...I have proven connections that directly link him to Kennedy's assassination.

6) I have proven Reily's cooperation with Oswald as per records never noticed before, such as irregular clock-ins, but precise clock-outs

7) I stated that Lee Oswald tried to save the president before anyone else ever mentioned such a possibility, back in 1999, and that Lee had penetrated the Dallas-based assassination ring.

8) I was the woman seen in the car by Mary Morgan when Lee spoke with her father, Reeves Morgan, a guard at the East LA S MH and also a sate representative. I was the woman seen in the same vehicle when Lee entered Lea McGeHee's barbershop for directions to get to the mental hospital.

9) I have been able to use my knowledge of the event to pin down the exct date of the Clinton and the Jackson trips, which were two separate trips--a problem that had the community of researchers raging, because they could not separate reports of Lee driving an old car--and reports of his being with a woman--especially when others said he could not drive--which was false--and the fact that he was seen in a black Cadillac in Clinton with Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, and a third person whose identity I have been able to confirm based upon the logistics involved. No other person has ever come forward claiming to be that woman except for me.

10) I was in contact with Lee as late as only 37 1/2 hours before the assassination. We now have much evidence to prove this, due to the phone call I made to him that got recorded, and his call back, all circumstantial but nevertheless strong evidence.

11) I told Joan Mellen that Lee was working with Customs and mentioned Charles Thomas and others. She took this information and, without giving me credit, published it three years later, as Dr. Howard Platzman would be glad to confirm. (He has even written an essay about it.) Mellen published that Lee worked with Customs in New Orleans (and Dallas, BTW). But I am the one who broke through and proved it with my new witness.

12) My statements that Guy Banister was in contact with Bobby Kennedy was finally backed up by new emerging evidence.

I stated things, many things, which have turned out to be true. They were ignored by people like Bill Kelly.

Perhaps the most important new piece of information that I have offered is the fact that Lee Oswald held his ground and gave his life trying to save Kennedy, saying that some other person would have taken his place. We now know that there were backup patsies in line. Recently, in JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, by James Douglass, Abraham Bolden's testimony revealed that an informant named "Lee" had saved Kennedy's life in Chicago. I had reported that Lee told me he saved Kennedy's life in 1999 by sending information not only by telex but by direct telephone calls as well.

13) Due to my close association with Sydney Wilkinson and after urging her to help me prove Lee's innocence, she finahhlly believed in me after our long association and purchased a true copy of te Zapruder film, gathered analysts in Hollywood who were film restoration specialists, and proved that the Zapruder film had frames with the back of JFK's head painted over in black--and much more, which she revealed to Doug Horne in his book INSIDE THE ARRB.

Would Sydney Wilkinson have purchased the film and done this research had we not met? She saw me in TMWKK THE LOVE AFFAIR and contacted me. We have been close friends ever since, and she has copies of all my evidence and film rights as well.

Now, have I done nothing?

TO ACCUSE ME, ON TOP THAT, OF TRYING TO GET ATTENTION-- JIM, THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP IN CONTACT. THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO COLLECT EVIDENCE PROVING LEE'S INNOCENCE. AND HOPEFULLY I HAVE ENCOURAGED ALL OF YOU.

IF I'D BEEN SUCH AN ATTENTION-SEEKER, WHY DID I WAIT OVER 35 YEARS? WHY SAVE ALL THE EVIDENCE SUCH AS THOSE REILY CHECK STUBS AND EVEN A GREEN GLASS, YET SAID NOTHING ALL THOSE YEARS.

I HAVE DONE THIS BECAUSE LEE OSWALD'S DEATH MUST NOT HAVE BEEN IN VAIN.

I GUESS BiLL KELLY WOULD SAY I SHOULD NEVER HAVE SAID A WORD.

I GUESS JACK WHITE CAN JUST JOIN ALL THE OTHERS IN ASSUMING I'M INSANE.

THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO INTERVIEW SUCH A PERSON AS MYSELF IN PERSON. NIGEL TURNER DID IT AND MADE A FILM. PETER DEVRIES DID IT AND MADE A FILM. WIM DANKBAAR DID IT AND MADE A FILM. "SIXTY MINUTES" SCHEDULED FILMING THREE TIMES, BUT DAN RATHER STOPPED THEM.

I HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY MORE FILMING.

By the way, the reason The Education Forum's JFK forum exists is because I wrote to John Simkin and asked him to form it. He did, and for some time I posted there, until Jack White and others began attacking me. Understand, Jack has never met me. Debra Conway and David Lifton did a great job of influencing people early on. They will claim my posts to DellaRosa's forum were wacky--but they erased them, so I can't prove they were not.

Yes, I wrote a great deal. At my age, who knows when the very last words are written?

I did not know if would be around long after 2003.

Little did I realize that trying to clear Lee's name by speaking out would be used against me to accuse me of attention-seeking and even insanity. When I was quiet, I was accused of having no defense against the jibes and attacks and must therefore have been lying.

The strategy, therefore, has been to get Lee's biography online and to support the truth about Lee in every way possible.

I loved him. Saw him killed before my eyes. It makes someting deep inside burn hot that never is quenched. They killed him, and vilified him. He was a good man. Lola, you said he was a good-looking man. Yes, he was, with a cute smile and a hearty way of laughing--just like Jim, Doctor Jim....He could be so funny!

He didn't want to die. But he was no coward.

YouTube: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews

Judyth Vary Baker, with whom I and showothers within the JFK community are in contact, lives in exile due to persecution in the US because of what she knows as a witness concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. The covert operation against Judyth is very serious and takes its toll upon her. She is now 66 years of age and has been forced to live in exile in Europe, where she resides in virtual poverty, even though she is a talented artist who has sold her paintings around the world for more than thirty years. The objective of this campaign appears to be to minimize awareness of her existence as a link to the alleged assassin.

My Blog: Judyth Vary Baken: Living in Exile

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-in-exile.html

,

I have no doubt whatsoever that she met Lee Oswald, worked with him and was his girlfriend. The fact that she had to be discredited and live in hiding works in her favor.

Not believing her is like insisting that the backyard photos are not fake, and at the same time "believing in conspiracy."

I am going to start taking a hard line on those with those sitting on the fence.

You are either with us or against us. It is that simple.

Well, Count me against you.

There is nothing that she has to say that leads to any new witnesses or records, nothing she has said that is new or dangerous to anybody, and she is not being persecuted for anything, as the calamidies that have befallen her are of her own making.

Those who really know something that is dangerous try to keep thier names off the internet, not complain that somebody must be errasing the internet records of her exploits.

Fraud or no fraud, she doesn't add anything new to what we already know, so why bother with her at all?

Somebody ought to make a dramatic soap opera of her whole life and then we wouldn't have to watch it.

If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

Jim...this is all imaginative fiction.

Jack

Edited by Jack White

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Jack,

You are wrong. I know personally--because I interviewed him and created a blog about him--that Abraham Bolden reported

that someone named "Lee" had tipped them off about an assassination attempt on JFK in Chicago. So I know personally that

your claim that this is "all imaginative fiction" is not only false but proven false by Abraham Bolden. I am sorry, but this is one

of those cases where you and I are going to disagree, as we do about the third tramp. I am quite certain it is Chauncey Holt,

and you and quite certain it is E. Howard Hunt. Well, we both think the other is mistaken. This case involves higher stakes.

Jim

If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

OK, Bill. Here is a response from Judyth Vary Baker. I must say, Bill, that if Judyth is right, you are wrong, but, then, you like to write about subjects where your actual research has been paper-thin, I'm sorry to say.

JVB: William Kelly makes the argument over at Education Forum that I have "no new evidence and no new witnesses".

This is not true, though he always states this.

1) New witness Anna Lewis, who states Lee oswald was in New orleans in 1962, which her husband also stated. I agree. This is against the official record. Anna Lewis, besides testifying about me and Lee, also went on to say that she overheard her husband David Lewis asking Lee about how the Get-Castro project was working--would they be trying to shoot him, or what--and Lee told him, "We have that (the project) taken care of."

2) Edward T. Haslam has verified the Get-Castro project, a bioweapon, on which we were working in New Orleans. Kelly ignores this completely. How Lee was manipulated into going to Mexico City is lost on Kelly. How Lee managed to be sent back to Dallas and how all this occurred, is in my book, which Kelly has not read, not even the unauthorized versions, where that information was intact.

2) New witness Charles Thomas, verified by the Thomas family, as the person who expedited Lee's passport in only 24 hours. Thomas also knew Lee in New York.

3) New witness William 'Mac' McCullough, Mafia associate, who observed me with Lee and who verified that we were lovers in New Orleans. He knew information about Marcello that backs up what new things I have to say about David Ferrie and the Marcello relationship.

4) New witness William Livesay, who supports the fact that prisoners were experimented on at East LA State Mental Hospital in 1963, after which people finally looked and verified other similar experiments. He was experimented on. He was a state witness in court about such experiments on a fellow prisoner who received brain damage.

5) Dr. Alton Ochsner was not even in the assassination records...he was ignored...nobody knew that Ochsner had been on an arrest list by garrison...nobody knew that Ochsner had been in charge of Kennedy's visit to New Orleans -- a doctor, mind you -- in 1962. I had to prove his links to Clay Shaw, since they were merely thought to 'know' each other...I have proven they were close friends for over 9 years running the International Trade Mart together, with newspaper archive backing it! It was not even known with whom he was associated...I have proven connections that directly link him to Kennedy's assassination.

6) I have proven Reily's cooperation with Oswald as per records never noticed before, such as irregular clock-ins, but precise clock-outs

7) I stated that Lee Oswald tried to save the president before anyone else ever mentioned such a possibility, back in 1999, and that Lee had penetrated the Dallas-based assassination ring.

8) I was the woman seen in the car by Mary Morgan when Lee spoke with her father, Reeves Morgan, a guard at the East LA S MH and also a sate representative. I was the woman seen in the same vehicle when Lee entered Lea McGeHee's barbershop for directions to get to the mental hospital.

9) I have been able to use my knowledge of the event to pin down the exct date of the Clinton and the Jackson trips, which were two separate trips--a problem that had the community of researchers raging, because they could not separate reports of Lee driving an old car--and reports of his being with a woman--especially when others said he could not drive--which was false--and the fact that he was seen in a black Cadillac in Clinton with Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, and a third person whose identity I have been able to confirm based upon the logistics involved. No other person has ever come forward claiming to be that woman except for me.

10) I was in contact with Lee as late as only 37 1/2 hours before the assassination. We now have much evidence to prove this, due to the phone call I made to him that got recorded, and his call back, all circumstantial but nevertheless strong evidence.

11) I told Joan Mellen that Lee was working with Customs and mentioned Charles Thomas and others. She took this information and, without giving me credit, published it three years later, as Dr. Howard Platzman would be glad to confirm. (He has even written an essay about it.) Mellen published that Lee worked with Customs in New Orleans (and Dallas, BTW). But I am the one who broke through and proved it with my new witness.

12) My statements that Guy Banister was in contact with Bobby Kennedy was finally backed up by new emerging evidence.

I stated things, many things, which have turned out to be true. They were ignored by people like Bill Kelly.

Perhaps the most important new piece of information that I have offered is the fact that Lee Oswald held his ground and gave his life trying to save Kennedy, saying that some other person would have taken his place. We now know that there were backup patsies in line. Recently, in JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, by James Douglass, Abraham Bolden's testimony revealed that an informant named "Lee" had saved Kennedy's life in Chicago. I had reported that Lee told me he saved Kennedy's life in 1999 by sending information not only by telex but by direct telephone calls as well.

13) Due to my close association with Sydney Wilkinson and after urging her to help me prove Lee's innocence, she finahhlly believed in me after our long association and purchased a true copy of te Zapruder film, gathered analysts in Hollywood who were film restoration specialists, and proved that the Zapruder film had frames with the back of JFK's head painted over in black--and much more, which she revealed to Doug Horne in his book INSIDE THE ARRB.

Would Sydney Wilkinson have purchased the film and done this research had we not met? She saw me in TMWKK THE LOVE AFFAIR and contacted me. We have been close friends ever since, and she has copies of all my evidence and film rights as well.

Now, have I done nothing?

TO ACCUSE ME, ON TOP THAT, OF TRYING TO GET ATTENTION-- JIM, THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP IN CONTACT. THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO COLLECT EVIDENCE PROVING LEE'S INNOCENCE. AND HOPEFULLY I HAVE ENCOURAGED ALL OF YOU.

IF I'D BEEN SUCH AN ATTENTION-SEEKER, WHY DID I WAIT OVER 35 YEARS? WHY SAVE ALL THE EVIDENCE SUCH AS THOSE REILY CHECK STUBS AND EVEN A GREEN GLASS, YET SAID NOTHING ALL THOSE YEARS.

I HAVE DONE THIS BECAUSE LEE OSWALD'S DEATH MUST NOT HAVE BEEN IN VAIN.

I GUESS BiLL KELLY WOULD SAY I SHOULD NEVER HAVE SAID A WORD.

I GUESS JACK WHITE CAN JUST JOIN ALL THE OTHERS IN ASSUMING I'M INSANE.

THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO INTERVIEW SUCH A PERSON AS MYSELF IN PERSON. NIGEL TURNER DID IT AND MADE A FILM. PETER DEVRIES DID IT AND MADE A FILM. WIM DANKBAAR DID IT AND MADE A FILM. "SIXTY MINUTES" SCHEDULED FILMING THREE TIMES, BUT DAN RATHER STOPPED THEM.

I HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY MORE FILMING.

By the way, the reason The Education Forum's JFK forum exists is because I wrote to John Simkin and asked him to form it. He did, and for some time I posted there, until Jack White and others began attacking me. Understand, Jack has never met me. Debra Conway and David Lifton did a great job of influencing people early on. They will claim my posts to DellaRosa's forum were wacky--but they erased them, so I can't prove they were not.

Yes, I wrote a great deal. At my age, who knows when the very last words are written?

I did not know if would be around long after 2003.

Little did I realize that trying to clear Lee's name by speaking out would be used against me to accuse me of attention-seeking and even insanity. When I was quiet, I was accused of having no defense against the jibes and attacks and must therefore have been lying.

The strategy, therefore, has been to get Lee's biography online and to support the truth about Lee in every way possible.

I loved him. Saw him killed before my eyes. It makes someting deep inside burn hot that never is quenched. They killed him, and vilified him. He was a good man. Lola, you said he was a good-looking man. Yes, he was, with a cute smile and a hearty way of laughing--just like Jim, Doctor Jim....He could be so funny!

He didn't want to die. But he was no coward.

YouTube: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews

Judyth Vary Baker, with whom I and showothers within the JFK community are in contact, lives in exile due to persecution in the US because of what she knows as a witness concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. The covert operation against Judyth is very serious and takes its toll upon her. She is now 66 years of age and has been forced to live in exile in Europe, where she resides in virtual poverty, even though she is a talented artist who has sold her paintings around the world for more than thirty years. The objective of this campaign appears to be to minimize awareness of her existence as a link to the alleged assassin.

My Blog: Judyth Vary Baken: Living in Exile

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-in-exile.html

,

I have no doubt whatsoever that she met Lee Oswald, worked with him and was his girlfriend. The fact that she had to be discredited and live in hiding works in her favor.

Not believing her is like insisting that the backyard photos are not fake, and at the same time "believing in conspiracy."

I am going to start taking a hard line on those with those sitting on the fence.

You are either with us or against us. It is that simple.

Well, Count me against you.

There is nothing that she has to say that leads to any new witnesses or records, nothing she has said that is new or dangerous to anybody, and she is not being persecuted for anything, as the calamidies that have befallen her are of her own making.

Those who really know something that is dangerous try to keep thier names off the internet, not complain that somebody must be errasing the internet records of her exploits.

Fraud or no fraud, she doesn't add anything new to what we already know, so why bother with her at all?

Somebody ought to make a dramatic soap opera of her whole life and then we wouldn't have to watch it.

If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

Jim...this is all imaginative fiction.

Jack

PS...this is the FIRST time she has been discussed on the Simkin forum. All her

previous postings were on the DellaRosa forum, where she was eventually banished

for abusive postings. You have been taken, Jim...like some others before you.

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Jack,

You are wrong. I know personally--because I interviewed him and created a blog about him--that Abraham Bolden reported

that someone named "Lee" had tipped them off about an assassination attempt on JFK in Chicago. So I know personally that

your claim that this is "all imaginative fiction" is not only false but proven false by Abraham Bolden. I am sorry, but this is one

of those cases where you and I are going to disagree, as we do about the third tramp. I am quite certain it is Chauncey Holt,

and you and quite certain it is E. Howard Hunt. Well, we both think the other is mistaken. This case involves higher stakes.

Jim

If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

OK, Bill. Here is a response from Judyth Vary Baker. I must say, Bill, that if Judyth is right, you are wrong, but, then, you like to write about subjects where your actual research has been paper-thin, I'm sorry to say.

JVB: William Kelly makes the argument over at Education Forum that I have "no new evidence and no new witnesses".

This is not true, though he always states this.

1) New witness Anna Lewis, who states Lee oswald was in New orleans in 1962, which her husband also stated. I agree. This is against the official record. Anna Lewis, besides testifying about me and Lee, also went on to say that she overheard her husband David Lewis asking Lee about how the Get-Castro project was working--would they be trying to shoot him, or what--and Lee told him, "We have that (the project) taken care of."

2) Edward T. Haslam has verified the Get-Castro project, a bioweapon, on which we were working in New Orleans. Kelly ignores this completely. How Lee was manipulated into going to Mexico City is lost on Kelly. How Lee managed to be sent back to Dallas and how all this occurred, is in my book, which Kelly has not read, not even the unauthorized versions, where that information was intact.

2) New witness Charles Thomas, verified by the Thomas family, as the person who expedited Lee's passport in only 24 hours. Thomas also knew Lee in New York.

3) New witness William 'Mac' McCullough, Mafia associate, who observed me with Lee and who verified that we were lovers in New Orleans. He knew information about Marcello that backs up what new things I have to say about David Ferrie and the Marcello relationship.

4) New witness William Livesay, who supports the fact that prisoners were experimented on at East LA State Mental Hospital in 1963, after which people finally looked and verified other similar experiments. He was experimented on. He was a state witness in court about such experiments on a fellow prisoner who received brain damage.

5) Dr. Alton Ochsner was not even in the assassination records...he was ignored...nobody knew that Ochsner had been on an arrest list by garrison...nobody knew that Ochsner had been in charge of Kennedy's visit to New Orleans -- a doctor, mind you -- in 1962. I had to prove his links to Clay Shaw, since they were merely thought to 'know' each other...I have proven they were close friends for over 9 years running the International Trade Mart together, with newspaper archive backing it! It was not even known with whom he was associated...I have proven connections that directly link him to Kennedy's assassination.

6) I have proven Reily's cooperation with Oswald as per records never noticed before, such as irregular clock-ins, but precise clock-outs

7) I stated that Lee Oswald tried to save the president before anyone else ever mentioned such a possibility, back in 1999, and that Lee had penetrated the Dallas-based assassination ring.

8) I was the woman seen in the car by Mary Morgan when Lee spoke with her father, Reeves Morgan, a guard at the East LA S MH and also a sate representative. I was the woman seen in the same vehicle when Lee entered Lea McGeHee's barbershop for directions to get to the mental hospital.

9) I have been able to use my knowledge of the event to pin down the exct date of the Clinton and the Jackson trips, which were two separate trips--a problem that had the community of researchers raging, because they could not separate reports of Lee driving an old car--and reports of his being with a woman--especially when others said he could not drive--which was false--and the fact that he was seen in a black Cadillac in Clinton with Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, and a third person whose identity I have been able to confirm based upon the logistics involved. No other person has ever come forward claiming to be that woman except for me.

10) I was in contact with Lee as late as only 37 1/2 hours before the assassination. We now have much evidence to prove this, due to the phone call I made to him that got recorded, and his call back, all circumstantial but nevertheless strong evidence.

11) I told Joan Mellen that Lee was working with Customs and mentioned Charles Thomas and others. She took this information and, without giving me credit, published it three years later, as Dr. Howard Platzman would be glad to confirm. (He has even written an essay about it.) Mellen published that Lee worked with Customs in New Orleans (and Dallas, BTW). But I am the one who broke through and proved it with my new witness.

12) My statements that Guy Banister was in contact with Bobby Kennedy was finally backed up by new emerging evidence.

I stated things, many things, which have turned out to be true. They were ignored by people like Bill Kelly.

Perhaps the most important new piece of information that I have offered is the fact that Lee Oswald held his ground and gave his life trying to save Kennedy, saying that some other person would have taken his place. We now know that there were backup patsies in line. Recently, in JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, by James Douglass, Abraham Bolden's testimony revealed that an informant named "Lee" had saved Kennedy's life in Chicago. I had reported that Lee told me he saved Kennedy's life in 1999 by sending information not only by telex but by direct telephone calls as well.

13) Due to my close association with Sydney Wilkinson and after urging her to help me prove Lee's innocence, she finahhlly believed in me after our long association and purchased a true copy of te Zapruder film, gathered analysts in Hollywood who were film restoration specialists, and proved that the Zapruder film had frames with the back of JFK's head painted over in black--and much more, which she revealed to Doug Horne in his book INSIDE THE ARRB.

Would Sydney Wilkinson have purchased the film and done this research had we not met? She saw me in TMWKK THE LOVE AFFAIR and contacted me. We have been close friends ever since, and she has copies of all my evidence and film rights as well.

Now, have I done nothing?

TO ACCUSE ME, ON TOP THAT, OF TRYING TO GET ATTENTION-- JIM, THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP IN CONTACT. THROUGH THE INTERNET, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO COLLECT EVIDENCE PROVING LEE'S INNOCENCE. AND HOPEFULLY I HAVE ENCOURAGED ALL OF YOU.

IF I'D BEEN SUCH AN ATTENTION-SEEKER, WHY DID I WAIT OVER 35 YEARS? WHY SAVE ALL THE EVIDENCE SUCH AS THOSE REILY CHECK STUBS AND EVEN A GREEN GLASS, YET SAID NOTHING ALL THOSE YEARS.

I HAVE DONE THIS BECAUSE LEE OSWALD'S DEATH MUST NOT HAVE BEEN IN VAIN.

I GUESS BiLL KELLY WOULD SAY I SHOULD NEVER HAVE SAID A WORD.

I GUESS JACK WHITE CAN JUST JOIN ALL THE OTHERS IN ASSUMING I'M INSANE.

THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO INTERVIEW SUCH A PERSON AS MYSELF IN PERSON. NIGEL TURNER DID IT AND MADE A FILM. PETER DEVRIES DID IT AND MADE A FILM. WIM DANKBAAR DID IT AND MADE A FILM. "SIXTY MINUTES" SCHEDULED FILMING THREE TIMES, BUT DAN RATHER STOPPED THEM.

I HAVE NOT ALLOWED ANY MORE FILMING.

By the way, the reason The Education Forum's JFK forum exists is because I wrote to John Simkin and asked him to form it. He did, and for some time I posted there, until Jack White and others began attacking me. Understand, Jack has never met me. Debra Conway and David Lifton did a great job of influencing people early on. They will claim my posts to DellaRosa's forum were wacky--but they erased them, so I can't prove they were not.

Yes, I wrote a great deal. At my age, who knows when the very last words are written?

I did not know if would be around long after 2003.

Little did I realize that trying to clear Lee's name by speaking out would be used against me to accuse me of attention-seeking and even insanity. When I was quiet, I was accused of having no defense against the jibes and attacks and must therefore have been lying.

The strategy, therefore, has been to get Lee's biography online and to support the truth about Lee in every way possible.

I loved him. Saw him killed before my eyes. It makes someting deep inside burn hot that never is quenched. They killed him, and vilified him. He was a good man. Lola, you said he was a good-looking man. Yes, he was, with a cute smile and a hearty way of laughing--just like Jim, Doctor Jim....He could be so funny!

He didn't want to die. But he was no coward.

YouTube: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews

Judyth Vary Baker, with whom I and showothers within the JFK community are in contact, lives in exile due to persecution in the US because of what she knows as a witness concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. The covert operation against Judyth is very serious and takes its toll upon her. She is now 66 years of age and has been forced to live in exile in Europe, where she resides in virtual poverty, even though she is a talented artist who has sold her paintings around the world for more than thirty years. The objective of this campaign appears to be to minimize awareness of her existence as a link to the alleged assassin.

My Blog: Judyth Vary Baken: Living in Exile

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-in-exile.html

,

I have no doubt whatsoever that she met Lee Oswald, worked with him and was his girlfriend. The fact that she had to be discredited and live in hiding works in her favor.

Not believing her is like insisting that the backyard photos are not fake, and at the same time "believing in conspiracy."

I am going to start taking a hard line on those with those sitting on the fence.

You are either with us or against us. It is that simple.

Well, Count me against you.

There is nothing that she has to say that leads to any new witnesses or records, nothing she has said that is new or dangerous to anybody, and she is not being persecuted for anything, as the calamidies that have befallen her are of her own making.

Those who really know something that is dangerous try to keep thier names off the internet, not complain that somebody must be errasing the internet records of her exploits.

Fraud or no fraud, she doesn't add anything new to what we already know, so why bother with her at all?

Somebody ought to make a dramatic soap opera of her whole life and then we wouldn't have to watch it.

If she has something new and different to place on the record, can lead us to one new witness or records we don't know about, I'd like to know who and what it is.

BK

Jim...this is all imaginative fiction.

Jack

PS...this is the FIRST time she has been discussed on the Simkin forum. All her

previous postings were on the DellaRosa forum, where she was eventually banished

for abusive postings. You have been taken, Jim...like some others before you.

Jim...I do not ask that you accept my opinion (nor John Armstrong's, Rich DellaRosa's, Mary Ferrell's

David Lifton's or any of the others who studied her rantings for nine months or more.

All I ask is you read "her book"...investigate her claims...and THEN decide if her claims are truth or

fiction.

You are a newcomer to the JVB experience. Check her out.

As for Bolden's claim about a "Lee", that is meaningless. As Armstrong points out, "LEE" was a

cover name for many CIA operatives. "SOMEONE NAMED LEE" is not evidence, but hearsay.

Jack

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Jim......I know that you are not going to believe things said against Judyth, unless you are able to see and find out for yourself......and that is actually how it should be. I am the same way about some JFK research areas. But still we can all relate our own beliefs as well as discoveries, to each other I do have to say that it is a big mystery as to why you are getting threats now....or why Judyth gets threats. Although I do know that she has deleted a lot of her own stuff herself. I have believed that was in order to not have anything showing of past claims, when she makes up new claims.

There might also be an orchestrated challenge to shut her up...yet I have not seen that. She has named McAdams and Von Pein...although it is not Von Pein, it is David Reitzes. But....from what I have followed with them, is that they simply do not believe her, just as I and many others don't either. I have not found any wrong info from them, as she claims. Although it is easy to make some errors...just as Jack said above about Marcello paying for their "afternoon delight" hotel rooms. It was actually Clay Shaw that she claims paid for their rooms, because he felt sorry for them....lol So some errors are not actually agenda driven....just simply errors. On the other hand, she changes things so much, that some things are hard to keep up with....so at one time she might have said Marcello paid for the hotel tooms. She did say that Marcello paid for all their restaurant tabs.

She was suppose to meet Lee in Cancun, if he was able to make it out of Dallas, after the assn.Then when she found out there was no Cancun at that time...she blamed a past agent for saying that it was Cancun. But then it became Merida and then Cozumel and then Maya area of Chichen Itza and eventually it became Belize. For the sake of any argument..there was a Cancun from long ago, but it was not habitable, until the resort came along. She also made a claim that a movie was being made "in the area" which they wanted to go see, because it was in a lush tropical paradise that DeMohrenshieldt had told Lee about. The movie was "The Night of the Iguana". It was being filmed, but certainly not in that area. It was filmed at Bandera Bay, at Puerto Vallarto. A look at a map, certainly rules out that claim for sure!

As to Lee being a great shot....as mentioned above, I found a reference to such, five times in her book.One that I am able to specifically recall, at the moment is that they saw a carnival in a park and wanted to go into it, but it was still closed. So...Lee bribed them to let them go in (how he bribed, them she didn't say...but unlikley anyway!) Then they were able to play all the arcades and they were the only ones in there. Lee was such a good shot that he was able to win her a bunch of stuffed animals. Then she tells how great a shot he really was and how he had to hide it when in the Marines. But why would he need to cover that up, during his Marine Days...makes no sense.She also claimed that Lee had all sorts of weapons that he kept stashed in Bannisters offices area. Also not very likely!.

One thing I have also been aware of for years...when ever she can, she gets someone else to do her writing for her. Then she will send it around to see how it will go over. When descrepencies are found, she can then claim she didn't write it and she was taken out of context or her words were changed etc. I have seen this occur many times. She even had Rich DellaRosa helping her out, until he got sick of her methodology.

In her writing on your blog, she mentions a couple that she has previously made claims, kept her hostage and she had to escape from them...but they kept things.

Also previously she clamed they were involved some way with the mafia and were involved in making internet porno. On your blog the porno bit has morphed into being a NATO sniper (whatever that is).

Her attempt to gain political asylum in Sweden was actually turned down and she had very little time to leave the country. But then, she appealed the decision, which I believe actually did take around 10 months...it was provisional. But during that time, her needs were taken care of. But then, she was turned down again and was going to have to leave, but by that time she supposedly had a job in another country and left on her own. But she did not have actual political asylum. Looking at the Sweden website, it is very hard to get asylum there....and they will send you back to your own country, if turned down. That could also be why she might have obtained a job in another country and left on her own.

This is all only a small tip of this iceberg and there is so much more. I have no idea why anyone would be after her or trying to shut her down or keeping her away from here and living in exile. I do suspect some of it is only her fantasy or mental condition. But then on the other hand, something does appear to be happening...but then who would even care? Many have made certain claims during the past and most have just been disregarded. How could she actually be a threat to anyone, just by making claims? But again, something must be happening, for some reason. ...that baffles me. As for the CIA wanting to shut her up or threaten her...again why? All they need to do is just sit back and watch us all debate the Judyth claims, every few months. I don't see her as being any real concern to them. .

One of her so-called forced car wrecks resulting in a concussion...was actually from a fall she took in her own home. This occurred at the time she was still a member of Richs forum. Of course we were all sympathetic and Wim Dankbaar kept us posted, through her son. I don't know if Jack still recalls this or not. But it later became another suspicious car accident and concussion.

If some portions of her claims might possibly be true...then this is a part that has always angered me and I am just hoping it isn't true. Lee was able to wine, dine and bed her in elegant style. According to her, he also would buy her a few grocery items sometimes and buy little trinkets for her. At the same time, he penny pinched with Marina. But then Marina was PG and started not feeling well. He took her to a free clinic, but they were turned down because they hadn't been N.O. residents long enough. So, he wouldn't take her to see a regular doctor. He didn't want to pay for it. She never saw a doctor until she later left for Dallas, with Ruth Paine. By the way she also claimed they broke three chairs in that grand hotel room by their "activities." And....the first time they went to the hotel, Lee ask her to marry him, from all over the room.....even from under the bed. Then when she crawled into bed, he ask her for the 100th time and she then said yes! Does this really pass anyones smell test?

There is a photo of three women in front of the Trade Mart, when Lee was passing out flyers. One of the women, she had claimed was her! You can only see the womans back, but she looked to be rather young....she also claimed to still have that same dress (yeau sure!!) Then some happens to know who those women were. Two were sisters. But then, to our great surprise, in her book she named another of the women as being her. It looks nothing like her and the woman has a poochy stomach, and actually might be PG. But that didn't faze her....she claimed she sometimes gets a poochy tummy because of a surgery she had when she was a child. When that was commented on, she claimed she had never said the first woman was her...but she did so and we all knew it, including her strongest supporter.

I mentioned in an above post that I have had past clients that told some good fantasy stories and I felt they actually believed them. Well, one of my own sisters, is a very nice woman and also teaches creative writing at the University level and has been an Editor of various magazines.She is somewhat younger then me and she can recall things from our growing up years that never happened. Yet she is not the type to just be outright lying. But some of her claims just baffles my other three sisters and I. Perhaps being a writer, just as Judyth is...has a hand in one being creative and imaginative and taken to extreme,.. I just don't know.

Regards

Dixie

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Judyth has been hassled and her life made virtually intolerable. She not only

lost positions but was unable to complete her Ph.D. because of the unrelenting

barrage of complaints and harassment. If she isn't "the real deal", then why is

this campaign aginst her? Why am I receiving "death threats" when I start to

support her? Why was the YouTube listing of my interview deleted immediately?

I have never received a death threat before in nearly two decades of research

on JFK. Now I and my webmaster are not even allowed to post comments on

YouTube and other sites. A set of emails we sent to newspapers and magazines

in New Hampshire appraising them of the Hany Farid case were rejected across

the board. We send ten and ten were bounced. The new factor in this is Judyth.

Oh, No, It's contageous! Now Fetzer has it.

And here she is taking credit for getting Sydney Wilkerson and the Hollywood Seven involved, and She's the one whose responsible for creating this forum. What does Andy and John have to say about that?

After reading all of her materail that I could, and after numerous books and thousands of web pages, I still can't find one item that leads to new witnesses or records that tell us anything new or dangerous about Oswald. There is no reason to persecute her.

The one part I don't get is how she saw a James Bond movie with Oswald before it was released in USA.

- BK

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Jack....Judyth has been discussed here on this forum many times, including when Judyth was here posting for herself. I even had some exchanges here with her. You probably just forgot about it., since it was a few years ago and after she left Richs forum.

Dixie

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Guest James H. Fetzer

With appreciation to Jack, here are some responses from Judyth to Jack and to

Junkkareinen. I must say that, when I compare Jack and Barb's remarks with

Judyth's rebuttals, I find her replies convincing and Jack and Barb's far off-base.

And my thanks to Dixie for pointing out to Jack that Judyth has been here before.

Jim...

You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

===

THIS IS NOT TRUE. IT WAS CLAY SHAW.

===

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

===

I ATTACH A PHOTO COMPOSITE OF MYSELF AND MARINA...MARINA WAS KEPT INSIDE SO MUCH THAT IN THE BOOK MARINA AND LEE IT SAYS SHE HADN'T EVEN BEEN TO THE FRENCH QUARTER UNTIL SEPT. AT THAT TIME LEE STAYED BEHIND AND SHE AND RUTH PAINE, WITH THEIR KIDS, WENT. WHY DIDN'T HE GO?.

hs9ly8.jpg

LEE AND I HAD BEEN TO THE FRENCH QUARTER MANY TIMES. HE STAYED BEHIND BECAUSE HE DID NOT WANT TO BE SEEN WITH HIS WIFE THERE. MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT WE RESEMBLED EACH OTHER. YOU DECIDE IF IT WAS CLOSE ENOUGH IF YOU'D NEVER MET MARINA OSWALD.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months.

1) WE WERE BOTH HIRED ON MAY 9, 1963.

2) AFTER 11 WEEKS AND ONE DAY OF WORKING TOGETHER--ALMOST THREE MONTHS--LEE WAS TERMINATED ON FRIDAY, JUNE 19.

A) LEE AND I WORKED AT STANDARD COFFEE COMPANY ONE FULL WEEK BEFORE TRANSFERRING TO REILY. IT'S ON RECORD. AT THAT COMPANY, WHICH HAD ONLY THREE ROOMS, WE WERE TOGETHER FOR HOURS AT A TIME THERE.

:) WE RODE THE SAME BUS TO TOWN EACH MORNING AND MOST EVENINGS RETURNED BY BUS. WHEN HE GOT ON THE BUS IN THE MORNING, THE NEXT STOP WAS MINE. THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE LIVED TO EASCH OTHER.

C) WE MOVED INTO OUR RESPECTIVE APARTMENTS, FOR THE RECORD, THE SAME WEEK.

SEE DR. JOHN WILLIAMS' ANALYSIS IN "JUDYTH AND LEE IN NEW ORLEANS" WHICH EXPLAINS THE MATHEMATICAL PROBABILITIES.

3) I WAS TERMINATED ON AUGUST 9TH, THE DAY LEE WAS ARRESTED. READ THE BOOK.

===

The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun after Lee divorced Marina,

when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

===

As Martin Shackeford has pointed out again and again, which is constantly ignored, there was a village called "Kankun" (after which Cancun was named). Yes, Lee said we would meet near Cichen-Itza which was in the news that year, and then go to "a fine hotel", which I thought might have been a joe. But it is not. Attached see Mayaland hotel, right at Chichen-Itza, not far from the ancient coastal village of Kankun...Cancun was developed several years later, but it was not I who said that but, as I have explained many times, when I pointed to the area, my literary agent said "Cancun."

CANCUN was placed in the book DEADLY ALLIANCE. As I have explained, the book was stolen from me and has not been edited by me and has errors. Yet I will never be allowed to correct them. Attached is a photo of Mayaland hotel, a fine hotel in operation since the 1930s, right where Lee said we would be meeting.

orl53o.jpg

Note that a hotel is named after the original village KANKUN...thishas been transliterated by these people into Cancun, as did Dr. Platzman and my literary agent. It's easy to mistake.

Results include your SearchWiki notes for "Kankun village":

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1. Hostel Kankun (Cancun, Mexico) - Hostel Reviews - TripAdvisor

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Hostel Kankun, Cancun: See traveler reviews, candid photos, and great deals for Hostel Kankun, ... Mamitas Village, N/A, 0.7 mi 1.1 km, 4 of 5 stars ...

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Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the

latest in a LONG LIST of researchers she has charmed.)

===

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

===

John Armstrong never, ever investigated me--only a second-hand investigation...

a single telephone call he says I made to him, which I did not.

===

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

===

My supporters are male? That's the reason to discredit me? I have female supporters, believe it or not. Pamela McElwain Brown, for example (nearly all of all her posts have been erased)--

I realize she has issues about the limo--there is also Terry Mauro, Lnda Mnor, and others, too.

Anyway, is it a sin to think men are mostly smarter than women and intellectually superior to them? That has always been my impression.

===

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, . . .

===

THIS IS FROM THE STOLEN BOOK, DEADLY ALLIANCE, OUTLINE THAT DR. PLATZMAN WROTE. IT HAD BEEN A SPECULATION AND WAS MORPHED INTO THAT STATEMENT. IT WAS STOLEN FROM MY COMPUTER IN HOLLAND AND PRESENTED AS A FINISHED DOCUMENT WHEN I HAD NO HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CORRECT IT. THANK GOD, I ALREADY TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS AND THAT THEY WOULD USE THIS TO DISCREDIT ME.

===

. . . to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals.

Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her.

===

BARB IS LYING. SHE KNOWS THAT THE CLASSES SHE IS TALKING ABOUT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY DR. CONCEVITCH, BUT BY A DIFFERENT PROFESSOR. IT WAS A DAY CLASS AND I COULD NOT ATTEND. COL, DOYLE AND RETIRED MILITARY OFFICERS--YES, A COUPLE HAD BEEN INTEL, SO WHAT?--WANTED ME TO LEARN SOME RUSSIAN BECAUSE THERE WERE CANCER REPORTS OUT THERE IN RUSSIAN. IT WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE COLD WAR AND I WAS GOOD AT LANGUAGES. ASK BARB WHY IN THE WORLD A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT WAS TAKING A RUSSIAN CLASS AT NIGHT? THINK ABOUT THAT.

THEY CONTACTED DR. CONCEVITCH AND HAD A NIGHT CLASS SET UP. BARB DOES NOT MENTION THE NIGHT CLASS AT ALL, WHICH IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST OF HER. SHE KNOWS IT EXISTED AND THAT I ATTENDED IT. THE CLASS HAD ABOUT 15 STUDENTS ATTENDING. DR. CONCEVICH WAS NOT FROM BRADENTON, WHERE THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE WAS LOCATED. HE DROVE IN FROM SARASOTA.

ANOTHER THING BARB DOESN'T MENTION IS A LETTER FROM MY MOTHER SHOWING THE CLASS WAS 'FUNDED'--I DID NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT COLLEGE RUSSIAN CLASS WHILE IN HIGH SCHOOL. WHO PAID FOR IT? THE MILITARY GUYS. I HAVE PENTY OF RECORDS TO SHOW THAT A LOT OF RETIRED MILITARY OFFICERS WERE LIVING IN THE AREA WHO WERE COL. DOYLE'S FRIENDS. (HE WAS ALSO RETIRED, BUT TEACHING PHYSICS AT MY HIGH SCHOOL).

ED HASLAM, NIGEL TURNER, WIM DANKBAAR THOROUGHLY RESEARCHED SUCH INFORMATION, AS DID SHACKLEFORD AND PLATZMAN. BUT BARB WOULD PREFER ONLY TO MENTION THE DAY CLASSES AT THE COLLEGE.

===

She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

===

AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY EXPLAINED, THE GRANTS WERE AWARDED TO ME THROUGH THE COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY I ATTENDED AS I WAS AN UNDERGRADUATE. NEWSPAPER ARTICLES MENTION THESE GRANTS AND AWARDS--ACCORDING TO JUNKKARINEN, THE NEWSPAPERS ARE ALL WRONG.

===

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper.

===

THIS IS GETTING TOO MUCH. I AM SENDING A COPY OF THIS TO ED HASLAM. THIS WAS THRASHED OUT BEFORE. I WORKED IN DR. MOORE'S LAB AND WAS ENROLLED IN THE OTHER PROGRAM, BUT MY MAIN DUTIES WERE WITH DR. MOORE. I WAS INVITED PERSONALLY BY HIM TO WORK IN HIS LAB AND WAS ALSO ENROLLED IN THE SUMMER PROGRAM, WHICH I ATTENDED FOR SEMINARS AND PRESENTATIONS AND ALSO TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE VIRUSES, WITH DR. GRACE.

I COMMITTED A HOUSING VIOLATION AND DR. MIRAND ASSUMED, THINKING BACK AFTER OVER FORTY YEARS, THAT THIS KICKED ME OUT OF THE PROGRAM HE WAS OVERSEEING, BUT HE WAS NOT THE BOSS AND I CONTINUED ON,.

NEWSPAPER ARTICLES SHOW WHEN I CAME BACK HOME, THERE WAS A BIG PARTY AS THE INSTITUTE AND AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY HAD TOLD REPORTERS ALL ABOUT WHAT I HAD MANAGED TO GET DONE.

I WAS THERE TO THE END OF THE SUMMER AND MY ONGOING WORK WAS SUPPORTED BY RPMI AFTERWARDS, AS THE ABSTRACT SHOWS, WHICH USES MELANOMA HAMSTER CELL LINES FROM RPMI--AND I WAS ENGAGED, AS THE ABSTRACT POINTS OUT, ACTIVELY AT THAT TIME IN CONTINUING RESEARCH. HOW COULD I HAVE GOTTEN THE AMSTER MELANOMAS TO WORK WITH IF I HAD BEEN DISMISSED? DID I STEAL THEM?

WHEN FIRST CONTACTED , RPMI SAID I HAD ATTENDED DURING 1962 AS A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. THEY WERE OFF BY A WHOLE YEAR...IT WAS 1961 AND I ATTENDED AS A COLLEGE STUDENT. NEXT THING I KNEW, DR. MIRAND SAID I HAD BEEN DISMISSED--A SURPRISE OF COURSE TO ALL, INCLUDING ME. I PRESENTED MY FINAL SEMINAR PAPERS AND HE CONGRATULATED ME.

I WAS VERY UPSET AND WROTE TO HIM, AND HE WROTE BACK (I CAN PROVIDE THE LETTER) SAYING IT WAS HIS UNDERSTANDING THAT I HAD BEEN DISMISSED BUT HAD PERHAPS BEEN KEPT ON IN THE BOSS' LAB. NOT JUST 'PERHAPS'--I WAS. HE ALSO SAID HE WAS STAYING OUT OF THIS.

I KNOW HE WAS UPSET BECAUSE I HAD MOVED FROM THE 'Y' BUT THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY LAB WORK, AS THE HOUSING VIOLATION PROBLEM WAS TAKEN CARE OF BY DR. MOORE. I BELIEVE THE PASSAGE OF YEARS ONLY LEFT THE IMPRESSION THAT I HAD BEEN DISMISSED BECAUSE HE'D BEEN SO UPSET AND ANGRY ABOUT IT.

I WAS IN THE BOSS'S LAB, NOT IN MIRAND'S LABS.

SEE ATTACHED FILE ABOUT RETURNING FROM RPMI:

[Note: This file was not attached. I will check it out.]

BARB THEN SAYS....

===

I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

===

NAME OF THE GIRL, BARB? I ONLY HAD ONE GIRLFRIEND THERE, FROM HUNGARY.

===

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

===

RIGHT--THEY HAD TO ADMIT THEY HAD THIS GREEN GLASS AS A PROMOTIONAL ITEM BECAUSE SOMEBODY MIGHT SHOW UP BESIDE ME WHO REMEMBERED IT...BUT THEY HAVE A 'RECORD' WHICH BARB DOES NOT PRODUCE--JUST WHAT MR. REILY TOLD HER--THAT YES, THEY USED THE GREEN GLASS TWO YEARS EARLIER. PRAY, HOW WOULD I HAVE KNOWN ABOUT A GREEN GLASS EVER USED AS A PROMOTIONAL ITEM? HOWEVER, IT WAS A SHORT RUN AND ONLY RAN ONE DAY. IT IS POSSIBLE THESE WERE LEFT OVER BOXES AND USED FOR A SPECIAL PROMOTION, SUCH AS A GRAND OPENING OF SOME STORE.

BARB DOES NOT PRODUCE A RECORD OF WHEN THE RUN ON GREEN GLASSES WAS MADE.

WHY? THEY DID RUNS ALL THE TIME.

THE CHANCES OF MR. REILY REMEMBERING THAT A RUN OF GREEN GLASSES WAS DONE AT REILY'S IN 1961, NOT 1963, AFTER MORE THAN 40 YEARS, IS REALLY QUITE SILLY, AS REILY DID NOT KEEP INVENTORIES ON THEIR PREMIOUM RUNS MORE THAN A COUPLE OF YEARS. MRS. RELY DOES NOT HAVE A RECORD. I KNOW, BECAUSE I KEPT SUCH RECORDS MYSELF FOR THE COMPANY.

===

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Jack....Judyth has been discussed here on this forum many times, including when Judyth was here posting for herself. I even had some exchanges here with her. You probably just forgot about it., since it was a few years ago and after she left Richs forum.

Dixie

Thanks, Dixie...I guess I have just forgotten. Then the exchanges should be on file, since this

forum has all postings all the way from the beginning.

I tend to put unpleasant things out of my mind, and JVB was REALLY UNPLEASANT. It was

on Rich's forum that I really recall her becoming nasty to criticism.

Thanks again if I was wrong!

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Jack, You are my dear friend and I admire you greatly. I appreciate your concerns about me relative to Judyth. But it is already obvious to me that you and Barb are about as far off-base about Judyth as anyone could be. I found a link to some past posts and even to her profile, which shows that

Joined: 27-March 04

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Last Seen: 18th March 2005 - 03:20 AM

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So why don't you cut me and Judyth a little slack while I sort this out. It is overwhelmingly apparent that you and Barb and Dixie and Bill Kelly are not willing to give her the time of day. Maybe you have good reasons, but for the time being, I find her more convincing than any of you.

Jack....Judyth has been discussed here on this forum many times, including when Judyth was here posting for herself. I even had some exchanges here with her. You probably just forgot about it., since it was a few years ago and after she left Richs forum.

Dixie

Thanks, Dixie...I guess I have just forgotten. Then the exchanges should be on file, since this

forum has all postings all the way from the beginning.

I tend to put unpleasant things out of my mind, and JVB was REALLY UNPLEASANT. It was

on Rich's forum that I really recall her becoming nasty to criticism.

Thanks again if I was wrong!

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Jack, You are my dear friend and I admire you greatly. I appreciate your concerns about me relative to Judyth. But it is already obvious to me that you and Barb are about as far off-base about Judyth as anyone could be. I found a link to some past posts and even to her profile, which shows that

Joined: 27-March 04

Profile Views: 573*

Last Seen: 18th March 2005 - 03:20 AM

Local Time: Feb 28 2010, 10:51 PM

85 posts (0.04 per day)

So why don't you cut me and Judyth a little slack while I sort this out. It is overwhelmingly apparent that you and Barb and Dixie and Bill Kelly are not willing to give her the time of day. Maybe you have good reasons, but for the time being, I find her more convincing than any of you.

Jack....Judyth has been discussed here on this forum many times, including when Judyth was here posting for herself. I even had some exchanges here with her. You probably just forgot about it., since it was a few years ago and after she left Richs forum.

Dixie

Thanks, Dixie...I guess I have just forgotten. Then the exchanges should be on file, since this

forum has all postings all the way from the beginning.

I tend to put unpleasant things out of my mind, and JVB was REALLY UNPLEASANT. It was

on Rich's forum that I really recall her becoming nasty to criticism.

Thanks again if I was wrong!

Jack

OK. But friends have tried to warn you of this quagmire. It is IRRELEVANT and time-wasting

when there is meaningful research to be done.

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

So far as I can see, none of you has laid a glove on her. I find her more credible about who she is and her experiences than any of the rest of you. This is a crucial issue that is not going to go away.

Jack, You are my dear friend and I admire you greatly. I appreciate your concerns about me relative to Judyth. But it is already obvious to me that you and Barb are about as far off-base about Judyth as anyone could be. I found a link to some past posts and even to her profile, which shows that

Joined: 27-March 04

Profile Views: 573*

Last Seen: 18th March 2005 - 03:20 AM

Local Time: Feb 28 2010, 10:51 PM

85 posts (0.04 per day)

So why don't you cut me and Judyth a little slack while I sort this out. It is overwhelmingly apparent that you and Barb and Dixie and Bill Kelly are not willing to give her the time of day. Maybe you have good reasons, but for the time being, I find her more convincing than any of you.

Jack....Judyth has been discussed here on this forum many times, including when Judyth was here posting for herself. I even had some exchanges here with her. You probably just forgot about it., since it was a few years ago and after she left Richs forum.

Dixie

Thanks, Dixie...I guess I have just forgotten. Then the exchanges should be on file, since this

forum has all postings all the way from the beginning.

I tend to put unpleasant things out of my mind, and JVB was REALLY UNPLEASANT. It was

on Rich's forum that I really recall her becoming nasty to criticism.

Thanks again if I was wrong!

Jack

OK. But friends have tried to warn you of this quagmire. It is IRRELEVANT and time-wasting

when there is meaningful research to be done.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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Guest James H. Fetzer

A partial response from Judyth, where I have much more to post as the occasion may arise. I note that Dixie, like others on this thread, attribute to Judyth statements and positions that are often not her own. I find her explanation about Lee in relation to marksmanship very interesting, where I'll reserve judgment and give that further thought. I know from personal experience that Harrison Livingstone is a monster to work with. I find the rest of Judyth's replies here to be highly credible, the "all sorts of weapons" being an excellent illustration. Judyth is obviously right and Dixie wrong. I also think it is equally apparent that many of these critiques are based upon faulty recollections.

From Dixie Dea:

As to Lee being a great shot....as mentioned above, I found a reference to such, five times in her book.One that I am able to specifically recall, at the moment is that they saw a carnival in a park and wanted to go into it, but it was still closed. So...Lee bribed them to let them go in (how he bribed, them she didn't say...but unlikley anyway!) Then they were able to play all the arcades ...

===

No, that wasn't what happened. We played "Horserace" once and the air rifle game once, that's all.

===

. . . and they were the only ones in there. Lee was such a good shot that he was able to win her a bunch of stuffed animals.

===

Actually, it was a Kewpie Doll.

===

Then she tells how great a shot he really was and how he had to hide it when in the Marines.

===

Yes, he was a better shot and had to hide it after the first tests, because by then he was starting to get in line to go into training as a cover agent...He said if he scored high on these tests, he could be considered a trained marksman who might kill somebody or be selected to be a sniper, which was not what he had in mind...So he deliberately didn't score well...

However, Lee told me that, although he liked target practice shooting, etc., he wasn't a world-class shot, and though I thought he was a good shot (he was), he wasn't good enough to be asked to shoot at JFK--this was one reason he knew that he was being drawn deliberately in...None of this got into the other book because I had refused to give Livingstone more information until he let me see the galleys--he refused! He said he was the editor and had the final say, so I refused to give him more info on Mexico City or on Dallas...

===

But why would he need to cover that up, during his Marine Days...makes no sense

===

Because going into Russia as a good shot could be dangerous...easy to just get rid of him...he had to look like a "failure" in the Marines...

===

She also claimed that Lee had all sorts of weapons that he kept stashed in Bannister's offices area. Also not very likely!

===

I never said that. i said, and told you on the tape, he had a long-nose S &W 38 cal. pistol, and I saw no rifle...He also had a small derringer...that was it. The "all sorts of weapons" were what OTHER people had stashed there. (Her memory is not very good. The book says nothing about Lee having many weapons. These people do NOT cite, they just pour it off the top of their insufficient memory.) ===

Jim......I know that you are not going to believe things said against Judyth, unless you are able to see and find out for yourself......and that is actually how it should be. I am the same way about some JFK research areas. But still we can all relate our own beliefs as well as discoveries, to each other I do have to say that it is a big mystery as to why you are getting threats now....or why Judyth gets threats. Although I do know that she has deleted a lot of her own stuff herself. I have believed that was in order to not have anything showing of past claims, when she makes up new claims.

There might also be an orchestrated challenge to shut her up...yet I have not seen that. She has named McAdams and Von Pein...although it is not Von Pein, it is David Reitzes. But....from what I have followed with them, is that they simply do not believe her, just as I and many others don't either. I have not found any wrong info from them, as she claims. Although it is easy to make some errors...just as Jack said above about Marcello paying for their "afternoon delight" hotel rooms. It was actually Clay Shaw that she claims paid for their rooms, because he felt sorry for them....lol So some errors are not actually agenda driven....just simply errors. On the other hand, she changes things so much, that some things are hard to keep up with....so at one time she might have said Marcello paid for the hotel tooms. She did say that Marcello paid for all their restaurant tabs.

She was suppose to meet Lee in Cancun, if he was able to make it out of Dallas, after the assn.Then when she found out there was no Cancun at that time...she blamed a past agent for saying that it was Cancun. But then it became Merida and then Cozumel and then Maya area of Chichen Itza and eventually it became Belize. For the sake of any argument..there was a Cancun from long ago, but it was not habitable, until the resort came along. She also made a claim that a movie was being made "in the area" which they wanted to go see, because it was in a lush tropical paradise that DeMohrenshieldt had told Lee about. The movie was "The Night of the Iguana". It was being filmed, but certainly not in that area. It was filmed at Bandera Bay, at Puerto Vallarto. A look at a map, certainly rules out that claim for sure!

As to Lee being a great shot....as mentioned above, I found a reference to such, five times in her book.One that I am able to specifically recall, at the moment is that they saw a carnival in a park and wanted to go into it, but it was still closed. So...Lee bribed them to let them go in (how he bribed, them she didn't say...but unlikley anyway!) Then they were able to play all the arcades and they were the only ones in there. Lee was such a good shot that he was able to win her a bunch of stuffed animals. Then she tells how great a shot he really was and how he had to hide it when in the Marines. But why would he need to cover that up, during his Marine Days...makes no sense.She also claimed that Lee had all sorts of weapons that he kept stashed in Bannisters offices area. Also not very likely!.

One thing I have also been aware of for years...when ever she can, she gets someone else to do her writing for her. Then she will send it around to see how it will go over. When descrepencies are found, she can then claim she didn't write it and she was taken out of context or her words were changed etc. I have seen this occur many times. She even had Rich DellaRosa helping her out, until he got sick of her methodology.

In her writing on your blog, she mentions a couple that she has previously made claims, kept her hostage and she had to escape from them...but they kept things.

Also previously she clamed they were involved some way with the mafia and were involved in making internet porno. On your blog the porno bit has morphed into being a NATO sniper (whatever that is).

Her attempt to gain political asylum in Sweden was actually turned down and she had very little time to leave the country. But then, she appealed the decision, which I believe actually did take around 10 months...it was provisional. But during that time, her needs were taken care of. But then, she was turned down again and was going to have to leave, but by that time she supposedly had a job in another country and left on her own. But she did not have actual political asylum. Looking at the Sweden website, it is very hard to get asylum there....and they will send you back to your own country, if turned down. That could also be why she might have obtained a job in another country and left on her own.

This is all only a small tip of this iceberg and there is so much more. I have no idea why anyone would be after her or trying to shut her down or keeping her away from here and living in exile. I do suspect some of it is only her fantasy or mental condition. But then on the other hand, something does appear to be happening...but then who would even care? Many have made certain claims during the past and most have just been disregarded. How could she actually be a threat to anyone, just by making claims? But again, something must be happening, for some reason. ...that baffles me. As for the CIA wanting to shut her up or threaten her...again why? All they need to do is just sit back and watch us all debate the Judyth claims, every few months. I don't see her as being any real concern to them. .

One of her so-called forced car wrecks resulting in a concussion...was actually from a fall she took in her own home. This occurred at the time she was still a member of Richs forum. Of course we were all sympathetic and Wim Dankbaar kept us posted, through her son. I don't know if Jack still recalls this or not. But it later became another suspicious car accident and concussion.

If some portions of her claims might possibly be true...then this is a part that has always angered me and I am just hoping it isn't true. Lee was able to wine, dine and bed her in elegant style. According to her, he also would buy her a few grocery items sometimes and buy little trinkets for her. At the same time, he penny pinched with Marina. But then Marina was PG and started not feeling well. He took her to a free clinic, but they were turned down because they hadn't been N.O. residents long enough. So, he wouldn't take her to see a regular doctor. He didn't want to pay for it. She never saw a doctor until she later left for Dallas, with Ruth Paine. By the way she also claimed they broke three chairs in that grand hotel room by their "activities." And....the first time they went to the hotel, Lee ask her to marry him, from all over the room.....even from under the bed. Then when she crawled into bed, he ask her for the 100th time and she then said yes! Does this really pass anyones smell test?

There is a photo of three women in front of the Trade Mart, when Lee was passing out flyers. One of the women, she had claimed was her! You can only see the womans back, but she looked to be rather young....she also claimed to still have that same dress (yeau sure!!) Then some happens to know who those women were. Two were sisters. But then, to our great surprise, in her book she named another of the women as being her. It looks nothing like her and the woman has a poochy stomach, and actually might be PG. But that didn't faze her....she claimed she sometimes gets a poochy tummy because of a surgery she had when she was a child. When that was commented on, she claimed she had never said the first woman was her...but she did so and we all knew it, including her strongest supporter.

I mentioned in an above post that I have had past clients that told some good fantasy stories and I felt they actually believed them. Well, one of my own sisters, is a very nice woman and also teaches creative writing at the University level and has been an Editor of various magazines.She is somewhat younger then me and she can recall things from our growing up years that never happened. Yet she is not the type to just be outright lying. But some of her claims just baffles my other three sisters and I. Perhaps being a writer, just as Judyth is...has a hand in one being creative and imaginative and taken to extreme,.. I just don't know.

Regards

Dixie

Edited by James H. Fetzer

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