Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

You are a good guy and I like you a lot. I hope you will give all of this additional thought. Jim

13 REASONS TO BELIEVE THAT JUDYTH VARY BAKER WAS THE LOVER OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD

REASON #1. Documents and researchers prove Baker and Oswald worked together for months at Wm. B. Reily Co., a coffee company in New Orleans, and that these jobs were pre-arranged cover jobs:

a) The A-1 employment agency shows records for both Oswald and Baker . Reily Coffee Company interviewed both Baker and Oswald on the same day (May 9, 1963). The Reily ads were 2 wks. old, but no one was hired until Baker and Oswald were interviewed. Note: Baker has much additional corroborating evidence, such as check stubs, w-2 forms, exactly matching Oswald’s dates, plus:

Oswald, as a ‘gift’ on Baker’s birthday, May 15, pretended to job-hunt at A-1 again, and though employed at Reily’s, told A-1 nothing about having been hired there; at this time, Oswald is on record for the visit, which was to induce A-1 to reduce an unjust fee placed against Baker by A-1, due on May 27. Baker has all relevant records for this event.

c) They were interviewed and hired the same day (May 9) by the same person.

d) They began work the same day, on May 10, at the same address, a block from Reily Coffee Co.

e) They were working in the same small sub-company of Reily, called The Standard Coffee Company, even though that small suite did not have a maintenance man (Oswald’s job for Reily) and Baker was Vice President William Monaghan’s secretary (Monaghan’s two offices were located in the Reily building). Baker was there to launder Oswald’s past so he could transfer with a clean record to Reily’s, for Oswald had been a fake defector to the USSR and had returned from that mission without arrest or detaining, to start new assignments. Reily was known for its ‘patriotic’ anti-communist position.

f) Both Oswald and Baker were transferred on the same day, one week later, to Reily, across the street.

g) The day Oswald was fired (July 19) an ad was ordered to replace Baker; a modified ad with more inducements appeared 2 weeks later when the first ad did not produce a replacement for Baker.

h) The day Oswald was arrested for distributing pro-Castro pamphlets (August 9) Baker was forced to resign. Baker had been at Reily’s primarily to cover for Oswald’s and her activities elsewhere.

i) Baker and Oswald rode the same bus to and from work (Magazine St. bus): there was only one stop between their respective bus stops; their apartments were within walking distance; both Oswald and Baker lived within minutes of each other, and key persons and places mentioned in Edward T. Haslam’s shocking new book (see below). Oswald and Baker bonded when he helped her after a police raid.

REASON #2: Baker has the testimonies of living witnesses confirming her intimate relationship with Oswald in New Orleans:

a) William “Mac” McCullough, who was a musician, bouncer and bodyguard for New Orleans godfather Carlos Marcello, describes seeing Oswald and Baker together at a park, a restaurant, and seeing them together on several other occasions. His mother worked at a restaurant where Baker and Oswald ate, and he also saw them at a hotel where he sang and played the piano.

Anna Lewis, wife of DAVID FRANKLIN LEWIS (known witness in JFK murder case) who was a private investigator for Guy Banister and an associate with Jack Martin in investigations and political activities in New Orleans, has testified on two audiotapes and on film that she and her husband accompanied Baker and Oswald on double dates in New Orleans, plus sessions of talk at Thompson’s Restaurant in New Orleans, over a period of months. Lewis was pressured to recant her statements but refused to do so.

c) Baker told her sister, Lynda, that her secret lover had been killed while serving his country, and that he was working for the government in secret missions on the first anniversary of Oswald’s death in 1964, charging Lynda never to mention the matter again. Lynda finally spoke out decades later after Baker released her from this promise.

REASON #3: Baker identified former Customs Agent Charles Thomas, also known as Arthur Young, as the person who was introduced to her by Oswald as the agent who expedited Oswald’s passport (along with others, to disguise the matter) to be issued only 24 hours after requested. Thomas described meeting and befriending Oswald in Buffalo, New York, when Oswald was a young teen.

a) Baker described tattoos on the fingers, silver hair, German accent, his previous Customs station in Buffalo, NY, his connection to anti-Castroites and to the Mafia in Miami, and marriage to a Chitimacha Indian woman to Thomas’ granddaughter, whom she met in a class at The University of Louisiana at Lafayette, LA

The granddaughter, Kelly Thomas, verified that Charles Thomas also used the name Arthur Young, and then brought forth photos showing Cuban and mafia associates; the granddaughter and her family also had photos showing the tattoos on the fingers, the silver hair, verified the German accent and the Customs post in Buffalo, NY, which Thomas headed, even having a photo of the customs station at Buffalo. Charles Thomas had been dead for years and had kept his past a secret from the outside world, living in obscurity on the Chitimacha Indian reservation with his Chitimacha wife after the assassination.

c) Baker contacted researcher Joan Mellen with details about Thomas; Mellen later wrote in her book that she had obtained evidence that Oswald worked with Customs and described his connections to Customs, without giving Baker any credit for the lead. This lack of giving credit has occurred several times with researchers.

REASON #4: Baker has provided a cashed $30 American Express money order receipt dated May 27, 1963, linked to her bank records and receipts and to letters from Oswald indicating his use of $30 for office rent on the same date.

a)The American Express receipt is linked in such a way as to show it was illogical for Baker to have purchased it for any reason other than to give Oswald an untraceable $30 ‘donation’ that he, with limited income, would not have to account for via his small salary. $30 = approx. $270 in today’s funds.

An American Express file about Oswald exists in Rotterdam, Holland

c) Oswald received multiple American Express money orders from an unknown source in 1963

d) Witness Delphine Roberts has testified to Anthony Summers that Oswald had an office

REASON #4: Baker has a green glass which has been in her possession since 1963, given to her by Oswald, known to many by 1980 as given to her by Oswald.

a) over 30 people heard Baker, in 1980, explain that the glass had been given to her by Lee Harvey Oswald at Reily company, in 1963, and that they had ‘worked together’ there.

Baker’s son, Josiah, has confirmed this; he also remembered his mother describing streetcar and bus rides with Oswald in New Orleans

c) Baker’s daughter, Sarah, remembers accidentally throwing away a note that Oswald wrote that was kept in the glass, and has been able to describe the note, and how upset her mother was. This event occurred during a household move from Orlando, Florida, to Lafayette, Louisiana. She also affirms that the green glass was given t her mother by Oswald.

REASON #5: Baker provides evidence that her job and Oswald’s job at Reily’s were cover jobs for clandestine activities elsewhere.

a) Baker provides time cards and clock-in/clock-out records showing Oswald’s outrageously late clock-ins, for which he was unaccountably not docked, while others who were late were docked, with Warren Commission testimonies backing her information; the clock-outs are precise, the clock-ins, irregular. Baker provides explanations: these and other details, such as 4907 mail problems, were not noticed by researchers -- until Baker pointed out much that was obviously wrong in the official record.

Baker provides inside knowledge of Oswald’s whereabouts that for the first time explains them logically, with important direct and circumstantial evidence to support her statements; many of her statements have been confirmed later by other researchers, following her leads; usually, she was not given any credit for these leads, but comparing er statements with researchers’ ‘finfds’ cnfirm her pre-knowledge.

c) Baker provides a financial information/character report on Oswald showing how it was deliberately created and rigged by herself and Oswald to cover up Oswald’s past, including his nearly 3-year stay in Russia as a defector, so that the highly conservative, anti-communist Reily Co. would be able to employ Oswald; a close and careful examination of all testimony concerning this document proves collusion.

REASON #6: Edward T. Haslam investigated Baker and has confirmed her ability to conduct secret lab activities in New Orleans as described thoroughly in his landmark 2007 book, Dr. May’s Monkey. Haslam, a New Orleans native who knew some of the persons encountered by Baker and Oswald, only learned about Baker’s still being alive through Sixty Minutes investigators. Haslam describes Baker and Oswald’s clandestine activity together in New Orleans, with verified information as to its importance:

a) Baker provides substantial reasons for why she should never have been employed at Reily’s as a Vice President’s secretary, when her expertise was in cancer research and medical technology: New Orleans’ Ochsner Clinic was world-renowned as a cancer research center.

It’s reasonable to assume that Baker would not leave her studies, family, and friends in Florida simply to become a secretary in New Orleans. Her ease in obtaining a well-paying chemistry research position soon after her return to Florida proves she had no reason to leave unless it was originally, as she asserts, to work under the prestigious Doctors Ochsner and Sherman.

c) Haslam himself is a living witness that Judyth Vary Baker was impersonated in New Orleans in the 1970’s when he was trying to find out more information about the clandestine lab activities

REASON #7: Film producer Nigel Turner had successfully presented six documentaries in the popular series, The Men Who Killed Kennedy, a secure fixture on The History Channel that ran more than two decades. On the recommendation of known CIA asset Gerry Hemming, Turner investigated Baker and her witnesses for over a year. He photographed much of her evidence. He filmed her for 38 hours and matched 55 hours of her spoken testimony taken months earlier on a tape recorder with her filmed testimony. He had witnesses Baker knew nothing about verifying many of her statements. Turner was contracted by The History Channel to produce two more documentaries in the popular series -- The Smoking Guns, and The Guilty Men-- but requested and received permission (and then filmed) a third segment – The Love Affair , about Oswald and Baker’s romance and clandestine activities together in New Orleans , and their continuing relationship until Oswald’s death two days after Kennedy’s assassination. But Turner got too close to the truth, and all hell broke loose, destroying his series.

a) The Love Affair was the first and only time in Turner’s series where only one person – Baker—was featured for the entire documentary. Though banned in America, it is currently an underground favorite on YouTube and is a popular underground film overseas.

Living witness statements supporting Baker’s testimony were illegally withheld by a third hostile party who essentially stole the videotapes. They were later recovered, but were not included in the documentary. There may have been plans to produce a sequel to the documentary with witnesses.

c) There was an outcry from Official Version Oswald-did-it important people, such as former President Ford, Jack Valenti and Mrs. Lyndon Johnson and her friends, over the new documentaries, and suddenly, three were banned, though the series was supposed to run for nine years.

d) Over 50,000 copies -- prepaid -- were destroyed and money returned, as a board of historians were called together by The History Channel to pronounce the documentaries falsely incriminating of former President Lyndon Johnson, who is clearly indicated as ruthless and involved. However, NONE of the historians met with or conferred with ANY of the witnesses, including Baker, nor did they look at ANY evidence whatsoever. This was the first documentary ever banned by The History Channel, or by anyone., so far as we are aware. In 2007, The History Channel lampooned Baker’s testimony.

e) Nigel Turner was systematically maligned on the Internet and has been incommunicado since 2004.

f) Baker was systematically maligned on the internet with big, impressive websites against her, and with newsgroup posts creating lies (such as that Baker claimed to be of Russian nobility, or that she said she was offered $600,000 for her story by a tabloid, or that she was a close friend of Dr. Suess, that Liberace learned ow to play the piano on her father’s piano, and other ridiculous statements ‘proving’ she was non-credible!). Other statements claiming to be Baker’s flooded newsgroups, ruining her reputation. Arrest threats, job loss, and death threats began to plague her life.

Reason #8: Wealthy Dutch researcher and film producer Wim Dankbaar investigated Baker and her witnesses for six years and fully supports her testimony and story.

a) Dankbaar provides DVDs of Baker and her witnessess’ statements and their stories on his website.

Dankbaar twice tried to produce a movie about Baker’s story, but was stopped the first time by a contract by a co-producer (Woods) who demanded Baker’s lifetime story rights, and the second time by a specious lawsuit by Robert Vernon, who stole evidence and spread lies about Dankbaar and Baker on the Internet. Vernon also distributed pornography about Baker and urged potential witnesses not to talk to Baker or Dankbaar. Important corroborating evidence, such as phone call records and films, have now vanished. Some witnesses were threatened and lost their jobs. Baker was hit twice by vehicles in Dallas.

Reason #9: Famed Dutch investigator Peter DeVries, noted for uncovering political crimes and frauds, and solving murder cases, investigated Baker in 2005-2006.

a) Devries fully supported Baker’s testimony and story in an internationally televised miniseries shown across Europe in 2006.

a) DeVries recently uncovered new evidence in the Aruba murder case famed in the US, using secret cameras and microphones, uncovering a confession no one else was able to obtain

Reason #10 : CBS’s Sixty Minutes investigated Baker’s testimony and story for eighteen months and nearly filmed it three times. They called it their “longest and most expensive investigation” in their entire history. But an insider told Baker that (now disgraced, for lying about Bush) higher-up Dan Rather closed the investigation. “The door was slammed shut in our faces,” according to Sixty Minutes’ founder, Don Hewitt, explaining the problem to C-Span. “I brought that woman in to New York!” he stated. Hewitt called the story the mist important story in Sixty Minutes’ history. Emails from Sixty Minutes producer Phil Sheffler state “we did not walk away from this story.”

a) When the investigation closed, Sixty Minutes had not yet interviewed Baker’s living witnesses!

Sixty Minutes was advised by Brian Duffy of US News & World Report to drop the investigation because there was ‘not enough evidence.’ Duffy was later found to have written a large article for USN&WR supporting Gerald Posner’s ‘Case Closed’ (Oswald-did-it) book – a big embarrassment to Duffy if Baker’s story became known to the general public. Duffy had just been re-hired by USN&WR and would later become a chief editor there.

c) Sixty Minutes’ chief source to check Baker’s reliability, Howard Liebengood, had been privy to all CIA and MKULTRA documents gathered by the HSCA, and was a renowned and trusted specialist in the Kennedy assassination. Liebengood confirmed Baker’s knowledge in general, and also her knowledge, specifically, of secret MKULTRA documents they had both seen, in front of CBS producers, Dr. Howard Platzman, and Baker. He urged CBS to film Baker.

d) Liebengood died of a sudden and unexpected heart attack just a few days after retiring, and just before his promise to help Baker’s story get filmed by Sixty Minutes.

Reason #11: More evidence and witnesses: At the time of the Sixty Minutes’ investigation, Baker did not know what evidence was important. She had avoided all contact with the case for three and a half decades. Only after she was allowed to look at records in the case was she able to recognize what evidence she possessed that was important, such as the American Express money order, and Oswald’s time cards, which she had initialed.

a) Baker kept evidence from 1960-1964 concerning her cancer research, her relationship with Oswald, and the events in her life immediately before and after his death, much of which her family saw (such as Reily check stubs) without realizing what was important and what was not. The collection of evidence was finally placed in twelve 50-page books. Baker did not save anything but family photos and an occasional item from any other year. The mass of materials from this time period is rich and detailed.

break-ins, robberies, and even kidnapping has resulted in the loss of some evidence, but all of it has been seen and photographed numerous times, and has been successfully linked to Oswald’s activities

c) new witnesses such as William Livesay (confirms secret medical experiments in 1963 were going on at Jackson hospital using Angola prison (volunteers), Edwin Lea McGeHee, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Kelly Thomas, Mary ferrell (gray Russian book unknown to public and a unique possession of Oswald’s, described by Judyth to Ferrell in front of witnesses), and many others confirm previously unknown details Baker has given,

d) Baker described Bobby Kennedy’s involvement with Guy Banister and knowledge of Oswald, divorce plans of Oswald, details about Oswald’s Mexico City visit which were later confirmed by new witnesses

e) Baker’s presence in a car with Oswald in Jackson (by two different witnesses of repute), and Baker’s explanation of the Clinton matter (which for the first time logically places Oswald, David Ferrie, and Clay Shaw together as seen by – but unable to be explained by – eight disparate witnesses in Clinton, Louisiana), where a black Cadillac sat for five hours for no known reason (however, Baker’s testimony clears up the matter, with additional new evidence from the Clay Shaw Grand Jury testimonies finally released to the internet)(see the banned documentary, The Love Affair)

Reason #12: Dr. John Williams, a US professor with a doctorate in statistics, collected data and statistics about the confluences and evidence Baker has presented, with the help of witness Kelly Thomas Cousins, and produced an analysis of events indicating that the chances that Baker and Oswald knew each other intimately are 99%.

a) Dr. Williams also produced a statistical study indicating that there was only one chance in a MILLION that Oswald and Baker did NOT have prearranged jobs with Reily.

Dr. Williams has now published two technical papers in The Dealey Plaza Echo which publishes journal style papers on the JFK/RFK/MLK assassinations in Great Britain.

Reason #13: Why is Baker ‘s life being threatened? She is currently in hiding in a Scandinavian country under EU political asylum rules and regulations due to denigrating Internet and television productions, break-ins, robberies, burglaries, Internet stalking, persecution, live stalking, arrest threats, and death threats.

a) Baker’s book has twice gone to print without her permission, with changes and excisions

Baker wants the REAL book to get published, and will support and authorize its sales

c) Baker will not return to the United States until after the book is published: she is willing to risk her life to promote the book.

d) “If I had said Oswald DID IT, today I’d be a rich woman, instead of in hiding, fearing for my life.” (JVB) The book is true. It’s relevant, pointing to Oswald’s innocence and indicating a Coup d’etat. Film rights information : contact Sydney Wilkinson (tinypaws@earthlink.net): Pair of Hands Post Productions. Contact Edward T. Haslam (see author’s website), Dr. Howard Platzman (howpl@aol.com) , or Tom Rozoff (rozoff@aol.com) for information. Baker will risk her life but asks for protection for interviews (must be major filmed interviews: Baker gets to tape record). Hear interview on Black Op radio (see website). Beware fancy websites that come up ‘first’ on the Internet: see YouTube "The Love Affair".

You are either with us or against us. It is that simple.

Then im against you/them

I dont believe one word Judyth Baker says

Edited March 1, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Jack White]

Jim...please step back, relax and take a deep breath. You have become too personally

involved with this woman. I have seen this many times before. You WANT to believe

her. Concentrate on other things before continuing to think about her. Something about

her polarizes people to the point of obsession. You have a right to your opinion, but

so do those people who have tracked down her allegations.

So what if some of the things she says about her romance are true? Not a single thing

she has said has any bearing on the JFK case. This is stuff for THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER,

not for evidentiary discussion. I am not the only one to think this. I believe the people

who have actually investigated all her claims and found them suspicious.

It is significant that people like Junkarinen and Lifton, ordinarily on opposite sides, have

the same opinion of JVB.

Jack

[William Kelly]

This woman has a lot of nerve! After dealing with her for years, I have found

for a certainty that she posts a lot of absolute rubbish! Not for nothing is her

name a variation on 'junk'! If I had to choose between Judyth and Barbara,

Judyth is the more reliable source--hands down! It is no contest--not even a

close call. That she should appear as an expert on Judyth is simply nauseating.

Allow me a partial paraphrase. Barb is good, very good ... she is very intelligent

. . . , and she always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. Most of her

supporters are men--Tink, Lamson, Colby, and others. But do some simple fact

checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart. For a sample, compare her

posts about the spiral nebula in the limo's windshield with my evidence summary.

Barb won't deal with the evidence there and I find her presence here incredible!

Judyth has been hassled and her life made virtually intolerable. She not only

lost positions but was unable to complete her Ph.D. because of the unrelenting

barrage of complaints and harassment. If she isn't "the real deal", then why is

this campaign aginst her? Why am I receiving "death threats" when I start to

support her? Why was the YouTube listing of my interview deleted immediately?

I have never received a death threat before in nearly two decades of research

on JFK. Now I and my webmaster are not even allowed to post comments on

YouTube and other sites. A set of emails we sent to newspapers and magazines

in New Hampshire appraising them of the Hany Farid case were rejected across

the board. We send ten and ten were bounced. The new factor in this is Judyth.

Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Pamela Brown]

YouTube: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews

Judyth Vary Baker, with whom I and others within the JFK community are in contact, lives in exile due to persecution in the US because of what she knows as a witness concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. The covert operation against Judyth is very serious and takes its toll upon her. She is now 66 years of age and has been forced to live in exile in Europe, where she resides in virtual poverty, even though she is a talented artist who has sold her paintings around the world for more than thirty years. The objective of this campaign appears to be to minimize awareness of her existence as a link to the alleged assassin.

My Blog: Judyth Vary Baken: Living in Exile

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-in-exile.html

Judyth Baker is a documented witness to Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. Despite that fact she has been treated with calumny by some in the 'research community'. She has been hunted down, even while in temporary asylum. She has been treated with scorn and derision. There is just no excuse.

Judyth is a witness. She has her own experiences, and she is choosing to share them. She may be mistaken about some things, as witnesses can be, but her tenacity in spite of almost insurmountable odds and her continued faith in the innocence of Lee Oswald shine brightly in an otherwise darkened landscape.

What we need to do is just to allow her to have a voice. We can decide for ourselves whether or not we are persuaded by what she has to say. That is all. Surely that is not too much to ask.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Jack,

I admire you, but you are off the wall about Judyth. You made a post with five or six

claims about her and every one of them turned out to be false. I believe that she has

been grossly abused and mistreated and nothing that has taken place on this forum

has altered my opinion one iota--other than increasing my support for Judyth. This is

not the only time we have differed, Jack, but I follow the evidence and everything that

I am learning about this case convinces me that she is the one who appears credible.

Nothing from you or Barb or Dixie or Bill or anyone else here has impressed me--even

remotely. I am going to follow the evidence here to the end, but as of now, I am more

convinced that before that she is "the real deal". The explanation you and Rich offer--

of a bizarre mental condition--is preposterous. No one could know so much and in such

detail without having lived through it. And, so far as I can tell, I am the only one here

who has actually interviewed her in person. That's where things stand. I do appreciate

your concerns, but I am old enough to sort these things out for myself, which is my wont.

Jim

Jim...please step back, relax and take a deep breath. You have become too personally

involved with this woman. I have seen this many times before. You WANT to believe

her. Concentrate on other things before continuing to think about her. Something about

her polarizes people to the point of obsession. You have a right to your opinion, but

so do those people who have tracked down her allegations.

So what if some of the things she says about her romance are true? Not a single thing

she has said has any bearing on the JFK case. This is stuff for THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER,

not for evidentiary discussion. I am not the only one to think this. I believe the people

who have actually investigated all her claims and found them suspicious.

It is significant that people like Junkarinen and Lifton, ordinarily on opposite sides, have

the same opinion of JVB.

Jack

Edited March 1, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Pamela Brown]

13 REASONS TO BELIEVE THAT JUDYTH VARY BAKER WAS THE LOVER OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD

In addition, there are numerous times during the summer of 1963 when Marina did not know where Lee was. Judyth is accounting for those times. Lee didn't even tell Marina for nearly two weeks that he had been fired from Reily. Judyth knew at once.

[Jack White]

At one time JVB claimed to be working on the HUMAN GENOME PROJECT for the government.

Then she got silent on this when a congresswoman named Judy Baker became involved in

the project. As I recall, she was into breeding a certain breed of dogs as part of the government

project.

I seem to recall that she had an interest in UFOs...but that is no reason to discredit her. I too

am interested in the UFO phenomenon.

Jack

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Jim Fetzer has fallen headlong into the vortex that is Judyth Baker. That Judyth is already writing her revisionist responses and having you post them is just the beginning, Fetzer. She will consume you. As Jack says, it's happened before, we've all seen it.

You say you need time to do your own checking ... then do it. And don't let Judyth be your source.

As Dixie noted, Judyth has eliminated a lot of her own writings from the net because she has revised her claims. But ... she cannot remove the posts of others that include extensive quotations of Judyth ... complete with headers.

She must be counting on Jim not actually doing any checking and getting his hands on a copy of her book, because the whole wild national science fair/CIA story is in there ... as it is in other places and posts written by Judyth herself. It includes her being instructed at the time to write a letter to President Kennedy. The science fair was in May 1960. There was no President Kennedy yet ... the democratic convention had not even happened yet. The devil is in the details and Judyth thinks she is smarter than everyone else.

The fact checking I did and the thousands of posts of discussion that followed, with Martin Shackelford her main supporter and with Judyth herself chiming in, took place on the mod group mostly ....alt.assassination.jfk ...and somewhat on alt.conspiracy.jfk for over a year and a half starting about April '08. Anyone interested in finding those discussions can do a google groups advanced search. One can use my name as author and merely "Judyth" as a key word.

Oh, and by the way, Russian was only taught in the evening at the junior college...nice try though, Judyth, that's a new one you tried this time!. :-) The college does not have their 1958-59 catalog, but all the rest are online. The course was an evening course, originally taught by a gal named Riegler ... and is listed in their Fall 1959 catalog. Concevitch later became the teacher. One way to find the catalog is thru the school library, but this site comes up with it easily:

http://www.collegesource.org/

If not a member, just sign up for the free trial offer.

Type in Manatee Community College ... it will come up asking you to click and verify it's new name and Bradenton campus, then click on the pdf symbol and the list of catalogs will come up. The 1959-1960 catalog is the last one on the list. Judyth may have taken/audited a Russian class there ... but it was not created for her in the Spring of 1960 as she has always claimed. It had existed, and as an evening class, since the school opened in the Fall of 1958.

There are other sources, a paper written in 1958 about schools in the US with Russian classes that list the school, a conference that original Russian teacher attended, I have a letter from the registrar there, etc. Anyone interested can find those posts online or email me. I have no intention in getting bogged down in her nonsense again. As Jim will find out, she can crank out dozens of emails a day ... and there is never ANYthing she cannot come up with an excuse for. Again ... she is creative!

Good luck to you, Jim. LOL You can't say no one warned you. And there is lots of information already documented if and when you are ever interested.

Barb :-)

[Kathleen Collins]

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Her story of the midnight call from the laundromat talking about the impending assassination was ridiculous,

and opens her to charges of ACCESSORY BEFORE THE FACT.

Jack

Jack, could it be possible that Harvey Oswald didn't know "Lee" existed? Also, how dumb could he be? He was being painted as a communist and finds himself in a building in which President Kennedy was going to pass by in an open car. When he was confronted, he seemed relaxed. Was he waiting for a phone call? He didn't hear the shots?

Kathy C

[Jack White]

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Her story of the midnight call from the laundromat talking about the impending assassination was ridiculous,

and opens her to charges of ACCESSORY BEFORE THE FACT.

Jack

Jack, could it be possible that Harvey Oswald didn't know "Lee" existed? Also, how dumb could he be? He was being painted as a communist and finds himself in a building in which President Kennedy was going to pass by in an open car. When he was confronted, he seemed relaxed. Was he waiting for a phone call? He didn't hear the shots?

Kathy C

No. According to Armstrong's research, Harvey and Lee worked TOGETHER. Evidence shows

that Lee stayed with Ruth Paine and Marina on WEEKDAYS and Harvey stayed there on WEEKENDS.

Nothing is known about where Lee stayed on weekends.

Jack

[Jack White]

In case anyone is interested, JVB's main support comes from a Dutch porn millionaire

who is suspected of CIA involvement.

[Michael Hogan]

One of the stranger aspects to this story is Edward Haslam's account of meeting a different Judyth Vary Baker in 1972

at a party near the Tulane campus. (Dr Mary's Monkey, pp. 286-287)

According to Haslam, this other Judyth Vary Baker (the hostess of the party) told Haslam and his wife that she had been

a friend of Lee Oswald.

[Cliff Varnell]

"Alice was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank, and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, 'and what is the use of a book,' thought Alice 'without pictures or conversation?'

So she was considering in her own mind (as well as she could, for the hot day made her feel very sleepy and stupid), whether the pleasure of making a daisy-chain would be worth the trouble of getting up and picking the daisies, when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her. "

L Carroll

[Barb Junkkarinen]

One of the stranger aspects to this story is Edward Haslam's account of meeting a different Judyth Vary Baker in 1972

at a party near the Tulane campus. (Dr Mary's Monkey, pp. 286-287)

According to Haslam, this other Judyth Vary Baker (the hostess of the party) told Haslam and his wife that she had been

a friend of Lee Oswald.

Hi Michael,

If you can ever find a Haslam account of having met a Judyth Vary Baker before the Judyth Vary Baker we

know emerged, I'd be very interested in seeing it. :-)

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Michael Hogan]

One of the stranger aspects to this story is Edward Haslam's account of meeting a different Judyth Vary Baker in 1972

at a party near the Tulane campus. (Dr Mary's Monkey, pp. 286-287)

According to Haslam, this other Judyth Vary Baker (the hostess of the party) told Haslam and his wife that she had been

a friend of Lee Oswald.

Hi Michael,

If you can ever find a Haslam account of having met a Judyth Vary Baker before the Judyth Vary Baker we

know emerged, I'd be very interested in seeing it. :-)

Bests,

Barb :-)

Barb,

About the 35 minute mark.... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678503303319704937#

And a correction: It was Haslam's girlfriend, not his wife, that accompanied him to the party.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Michael Hogan