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Morgan Reynolds interviews Jack White...

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But it doesn't matter what you or Jack White think about Apollo or the moon landings.

I can't speak for Jack, but it certainly matters to me.

It does matter if Oswald was a lone nut or framed as part of a conspiracy and coup, as the national security of the United States is at stake, and all presidents are potential victims until what happened to JFK is resolved.

It's not just a matter of belief, or what you or Jack White think happened on or off the moon, determining how and why the President was killed is more than just a matter of belief or public opinion, it's the Constitution of the nation that is on the line, not just what you or Jack White believe.

We are allowed to believe anything but to know nothing.

BK

I respect your commitment to your cause, but the Constitution of your nation just doesn't tug at my emotional heartstrings as much as Apollo does. What can I say? I'm not an American, but I am a space-geek!

I tried to answer this earlier but was hacked mid-stream by Shamoon Code3r and Real Coder. Was the forum hacked or was it just me?

In any case, it's not just my cause or my Constitution or my nation, the emotional heartstrings of Apollo are directly tied to what happened at Dealey Plaza though the NASA instances of foreknowledge, the use of Paperclip scientists to develop rockets and the NSAM that President Kennedy issued shortly before his death that was totally ignored. If you are a real Space Geek, which I doubt, you would know these things and be interested in them.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...hl=NSAM+Ignored

My point being that your interest and Jack White's intertest in the moon landings and proving that they did or did not take place are just interesting opinions, while determing the truth about the assassination of the President is a matter of not only America's national security, but the security of every politician and person who can be assassinated.

You're not a space geek, you just want to debate people like Jack White because you don't think they can win the debate, but they won't debate you. I talked with a women who didn't believe hijacked airplanes hit the Pentagon and WTCs and after listening to her for awhile and trying to tell her about the witnesses I talked to, she dismissed my witnesses and maintains her belief like a true believer who you can not persuade with facts, logic, reason or witnesses. And it's okay because its harmless for people to believe such things, and only a small percentage of people do.

But it is not harmless for people to believe that the President was killed by a deranged lone nut when we now know better, especially people in sensitive positions in law enforcement, government and security, because until the assassinations of the sixties are fully resolved, such political assassinations will remain a viable option for the assassins.

The topic of your interest - moon landing reality, is just interesting talk, while political assassination is the most important political issue of the day, even though most people don't realize it until after it happens.

Jack White and Dave Greer are harmless true belivers in their cause who can believe whatever they want and know nothing of importance.

Bill Kelly

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But it doesn't matter what you or Jack White think about Apollo or the moon landings.

I can't speak for Jack, but it certainly matters to me.

It does matter if Oswald was a lone nut or framed as part of a conspiracy and coup, as the national security of the United States is at stake, and all presidents are potential victims until what happened to JFK is resolved.

It's not just a matter of belief, or what you or Jack White think happened on or off the moon, determining how and why the President was killed is more than just a matter of belief or public opinion, it's the Constitution of the nation that is on the line, not just what you or Jack White believe.

We are allowed to believe anything but to know nothing.

BK

I respect your commitment to your cause, but the Constitution of your nation just doesn't tug at my emotional heartstrings as much as Apollo does. What can I say? I'm not an American, but I am a space-geek!

I tried to answer this earlier but was hacked mid-stream by Shamoon Code3r and Real Coder. Was the forum hacked or was it just me?

In any case, it's not just my cause or my Constitution or my nation, the emotional heartstrings of Apollo are directly tied to what happened at Dealey Plaza though the NASA instances of foreknowledge, the use of Paperclip scientists to develop rockets and the NSAM that President Kennedy issued shortly before his death that was totally ignored. If you are a real Space Geek, which I doubt, you would know these things and be interested in them.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...hl=NSAM+Ignored

My point being that your interest and Jack White's intertest in the moon landings and proving that they did or did not take place are just interesting opinions, while determing the truth about the assassination of the President is a matter of not only America's national security, but the security of every politician and person who can be assassinated.

You're not a space geek, you just want to debate people like Jack White because you don't think they can win the debate, but they won't debate you. I talked with a women who didn't believe hijacked airplanes hit the Pentagon and WTCs and after listening to her for awhile and trying to tell her about the witnesses I talked to, she dismissed my witnesses and maintains her belief like a true believer who you can not persuade with facts, logic, reason or witnesses. And it's okay because its harmless for people to believe such things, and only a small percentage of people do.

But it is not harmless for people to believe that the President was killed by a deranged lone nut when we now know better, especially people in sensitive positions in law enforcement, government and security, because until the assassinations of the sixties are fully resolved, such political assassinations will remain a viable option for the assassins.

The topic of your interest - moon landing reality, is just interesting talk, while political assassination is the most important political issue of the day, even though most people don't realize it until after it happens.

Jack White and Dave Greer are harmless true belivers in their cause who can believe whatever they want and know nothing of importance.

Bill Kelly

Then maybe you should get back to the moral high ground and continue spreading the message about Oswald, rather than wasting your time on a pointless exercise telling me how unimportant my own views and opinions are.

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But it doesn't matter what you or Jack White think about Apollo or the moon landings.

I can't speak for Jack, but it certainly matters to me.

It does matter if Oswald was a lone nut or framed as part of a conspiracy and coup, as the national security of the United States is at stake, and all presidents are potential victims until what happened to JFK is resolved.

It's not just a matter of belief, or what you or Jack White think happened on or off the moon, determining how and why the President was killed is more than just a matter of belief or public opinion, it's the Constitution of the nation that is on the line, not just what you or Jack White believe.

We are allowed to believe anything but to know nothing.

BK

I respect your commitment to your cause, but the Constitution of your nation just doesn't tug at my emotional heartstrings as much as Apollo does. What can I say? I'm not an American, but I am a space-geek!

I tried to answer this earlier but was hacked mid-stream by Shamoon Code3r and Real Coder. Was the forum hacked or was it just me?

In any case, it's not just my cause or my Constitution or my nation, the emotional heartstrings of Apollo are directly tied to what happened at Dealey Plaza though the NASA instances of foreknowledge, the use of Paperclip scientists to develop rockets and the NSAM that President Kennedy issued shortly before his death that was totally ignored. If you are a real Space Geek, which I doubt, you would know these things and be interested in them.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...hl=NSAM+Ignored

My point being that your interest and Jack White's intertest in the moon landings and proving that they did or did not take place are just interesting opinions, while determing the truth about the assassination of the President is a matter of not only America's national security, but the security of every politician and person who can be assassinated.

You're not a space geek, you just want to debate people like Jack White because you don't think they can win the debate, but they won't debate you. I talked with a women who didn't believe hijacked airplanes hit the Pentagon and WTCs and after listening to her for awhile and trying to tell her about the witnesses I talked to, she dismissed my witnesses and maintains her belief like a true believer who you can not persuade with facts, logic, reason or witnesses. And it's okay because its harmless for people to believe such things, and only a small percentage of people do.

But it is not harmless for people to believe that the President was killed by a deranged lone nut when we now know better, especially people in sensitive positions in law enforcement, government and security, because until the assassinations of the sixties are fully resolved, such political assassinations will remain a viable option for the assassins.

The topic of your interest - moon landing reality, is just interesting talk, while political assassination is the most important political issue of the day, even though most people don't realize it until after it happens.

Jack White and Dave Greer are harmless true belivers in their cause who can believe whatever they want and know nothing of importance.

Bill Kelly

Then maybe you should get back to the moral high ground and continue spreading the message about Oswald, rather than wasting your time on a pointless exercise telling me how unimportant my own views and opinions are.

My only message about Oswald is that he is the Patsy and Fall Guy and any interest in him merely distracts from the real assassins.

And it just seems that you aren't really interested in space or the US Space program, just interested in bashing Jack White and his beliefs.

You say your interested in space and apollo but your not interested in the history of the apollo program, the independent contractors who made it happen, Paperclip or JFK's NSAM that concerns the moon project.

You are not alone, as there are others here who claim to have an interest in either of these subjects, but not discussing the real issues or evidence in either case, but just attacking other researechers, like Jack White.

Earlier David Von Pein used Mike Williams to attack Robert Harris, Fetzer might deserve being a target for all he says about different things, and AJ says he doesn't trust John Judge, and there's more ammunition being wasted on attacking other researchers than in just solving the assassination.

It seems like this is not a JFK assassination debate, as the title of the forum suggests, because those who hold the radical beliefs about what happened, won't bother debating or even discussing the issues.

Dave Greer claims to be a space buff but he's a flake not a buff.

BK

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My only message about Oswald is that he is the Patsy and Fall Guy and any interest in him merely distracts from the real assassins.

I suspect you are right.

And it just seems that you aren't really interested in space or the US Space program, just interested in bashing Jack White and his beliefs.

You say your interested in space and apollo but your not interested in the history of the apollo program, the independent contractors who made it happen, Paperclip or JFK's NSAM that concerns the moon project.

How can you possibly know my level of interest and knowledge of the Apollo programme? Why do you care? Why should it matter to you? Why are you complaining that some people choose to focus on what is important to them, rather than you?

It seems like this is not a JFK assassination debate, as the title of the forum suggests, because those who hold the radical beliefs about what happened, won't bother debating or even discussing the issues.

Then complain to the people with radical beliefs who aren't posting, rather than a "harmless believer" like me who knows "nothing of importance".

Dave Greer claims to be a space buff but he's a flake not a buff.

BK

I made no such claim. I said I was a space geek. We geeks are far cooler than buffs. It was clearly said in a jocular manner to show that I'm more interested both in Apollo and the hoax theories surrounding it, rather than the perilous state of the US Constitution. Not all humour travels well across the pond so it may not have come over that way. That said, this is indeed the JFK forum (albeit Jack posted the link to the interview on another sub-forum, which was closed, hence I posted here). You obviously feel as if my presence here is threatening the future of your country, so I shall leave you to rattle the cages of the silent radicals as you see fit.

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I agree with Bill. Apollo fakery only exposes the perfidy of LBJ, RMN, NASA, et al. It is important, but not as

important as Dealey Plaza.

However, I disagree with Bill about 911. It was a horrendous FALSE FLAG operation which the NEW WORLD

ORDER PEOPLE (Bushes, etc) used to start an anti-arab war. 911 is the most important issue of our time.

Jack

But it doesn't matter what you or Jack White think about Apollo or the moon landings.

I can't speak for Jack, but it certainly matters to me.

It does matter if Oswald was a lone nut or framed as part of a conspiracy and coup, as the national security of the United States is at stake, and all presidents are potential victims until what happened to JFK is resolved.

It's not just a matter of belief, or what you or Jack White think happened on or off the moon, determining how and why the President was killed is more than just a matter of belief or public opinion, it's the Constitution of the nation that is on the line, not just what you or Jack White believe.

We are allowed to believe anything but to know nothing.

BK

I respect your commitment to your cause, but the Constitution of your nation just doesn't tug at my emotional heartstrings as much as Apollo does. What can I say? I'm not an American, but I am a space-geek!

I tried to answer this earlier but was hacked mid-stream by Shamoon Code3r and Real Coder. Was the forum hacked or was it just me?

In any case, it's not just my cause or my Constitution or my nation, the emotional heartstrings of Apollo are directly tied to what happened at Dealey Plaza though the NASA instances of foreknowledge, the use of Paperclip scientists to develop rockets and the NSAM that President Kennedy issued shortly before his death that was totally ignored. If you are a real Space Geek, which I doubt, you would know these things and be interested in them.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...hl=NSAM+Ignored

My point being that your interest and Jack White's intertest in the moon landings and proving that they did or did not take place are just interesting opinions, while determing the truth about the assassination of the President is a matter of not only America's national security, but the security of every politician and person who can be assassinated.

You're not a space geek, you just want to debate people like Jack White because you don't think they can win the debate, but they won't debate you. I talked with a women who didn't believe hijacked airplanes hit the Pentagon and WTCs and after listening to her for awhile and trying to tell her about the witnesses I talked to, she dismissed my witnesses and maintains her belief like a true believer who you can not persuade with facts, logic, reason or witnesses. And it's okay because its harmless for people to believe such things, and only a small percentage of people do.

But it is not harmless for people to believe that the President was killed by a deranged lone nut when we now know better, especially people in sensitive positions in law enforcement, government and security, because until the assassinations of the sixties are fully resolved, such political assassinations will remain a viable option for the assassins.

The topic of your interest - moon landing reality, is just interesting talk, while political assassination is the most important political issue of the day, even though most people don't realize it until after it happens.

Jack White and Dave Greer are harmless true belivers in their cause who can believe whatever they want and know nothing of importance.

Bill Kelly

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Greer is entitled to his opinion. He is not entitled to continually make attacks on me.

Thanks, Bill.

Jack

But it doesn't matter what you or Jack White think about Apollo or the moon landings.

I can't speak for Jack, but it certainly matters to me.

It does matter if Oswald was a lone nut or framed as part of a conspiracy and coup, as the national security of the United States is at stake, and all presidents are potential victims until what happened to JFK is resolved.

It's not just a matter of belief, or what you or Jack White think happened on or off the moon, determining how and why the President was killed is more than just a matter of belief or public opinion, it's the Constitution of the nation that is on the line, not just what you or Jack White believe.

We are allowed to believe anything but to know nothing.

BK

I respect your commitment to your cause, but the Constitution of your nation just doesn't tug at my emotional heartstrings as much as Apollo does. What can I say? I'm not an American, but I am a space-geek!

I tried to answer this earlier but was hacked mid-stream by Shamoon Code3r and Real Coder. Was the forum hacked or was it just me?

In any case, it's not just my cause or my Constitution or my nation, the emotional heartstrings of Apollo are directly tied to what happened at Dealey Plaza though the NASA instances of foreknowledge, the use of Paperclip scientists to develop rockets and the NSAM that President Kennedy issued shortly before his death that was totally ignored. If you are a real Space Geek, which I doubt, you would know these things and be interested in them.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...hl=NSAM+Ignored

My point being that your interest and Jack White's intertest in the moon landings and proving that they did or did not take place are just interesting opinions, while determing the truth about the assassination of the President is a matter of not only America's national security, but the security of every politician and person who can be assassinated.

You're not a space geek, you just want to debate people like Jack White because you don't think they can win the debate, but they won't debate you. I talked with a women who didn't believe hijacked airplanes hit the Pentagon and WTCs and after listening to her for awhile and trying to tell her about the witnesses I talked to, she dismissed my witnesses and maintains her belief like a true believer who you can not persuade with facts, logic, reason or witnesses. And it's okay because its harmless for people to believe such things, and only a small percentage of people do.

But it is not harmless for people to believe that the President was killed by a deranged lone nut when we now know better, especially people in sensitive positions in law enforcement, government and security, because until the assassinations of the sixties are fully resolved, such political assassinations will remain a viable option for the assassins.

The topic of your interest - moon landing reality, is just interesting talk, while political assassination is the most important political issue of the day, even though most people don't realize it until after it happens.

Jack White and Dave Greer are harmless true belivers in their cause who can believe whatever they want and know nothing of importance.

Bill Kelly

Then maybe you should get back to the moral high ground and continue spreading the message about Oswald, rather than wasting your time on a pointless exercise telling me how unimportant my own views and opinions are.

My only message about Oswald is that he is the Patsy and Fall Guy and any interest in him merely distracts from the real assassins.

And it just seems that you aren't really interested in space or the US Space program, just interested in bashing Jack White and his beliefs.

You say your interested in space and apollo but your not interested in the history of the apollo program, the independent contractors who made it happen, Paperclip or JFK's NSAM that concerns the moon project.

You are not alone, as there are others here who claim to have an interest in either of these subjects, but not discussing the real issues or evidence in either case, but just attacking other researechers, like Jack White.

Earlier David Von Pein used Mike Williams to attack Robert Harris, Fetzer might deserve being a target for all he says about different things, and AJ says he doesn't trust John Judge, and there's more ammunition being wasted on attacking other researchers than in just solving the assassination.

It seems like this is not a JFK assassination debate, as the title of the forum suggests, because those who hold the radical beliefs about what happened, won't bother debating or even discussing the issues.

Dave Greer claims to be a space buff but he's a flake not a buff.

BK

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Greer is entitled to his opinion. He is not entitled to continually make attacks on me.

Please point out where I continually attack you, rather than your studies.

Thanks, Bill.

Jack

I don't think he was leaping to your defence.

Jack White and Dave Greer are harmless true belivers in their cause who can believe whatever they want and know nothing of importance.

Bill Kelly

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My only message about Oswald is that he is the Patsy and Fall Guy and any interest in him merely distracts from the real assassins.

I suspect you are right.

And it just seems that you aren't really interested in space or the US Space program, just interested in bashing Jack White and his beliefs.

You say your interested in space and apollo but your not interested in the history of the apollo program, the independent contractors who made it happen, Paperclip or JFK's NSAM that concerns the moon project.

How can you possibly know my level of interest and knowledge of the Apollo programme? Why do you care? Why should it matter to you? Why are you complaining that some people choose to focus on what is important to them, rather than you?

It seems like this is not a JFK assassination debate, as the title of the forum suggests, because those who hold the radical beliefs about what happened, won't bother debating or even discussing the issues.

Then complain to the people with radical beliefs who aren't posting, rather than a "harmless believer" like me who knows "nothing of importance".

Dave Greer claims to be a space buff but he's a flake not a buff.

BK

I made no such claim. I said I was a space geek. We geeks are far cooler than buffs. It was clearly said in a jocular manner to show that I'm more interested both in Apollo and the hoax theories surrounding it, rather than the perilous state of the US Constitution. Not all humour travels well across the pond so it may not have come over that way. That said, this is indeed the JFK forum (albeit Jack posted the link to the interview on another sub-forum, which was closed, hence I posted here). You obviously feel as if my presence here is threatening the future of your country, so I shall leave you to rattle the cages of the silent radicals as you see fit.

You mean you're not going to stick around to find out why Jack White believes what he does or debate him over the issues?

Yea, the difference between a Geek and a Buff is the Geek leaves the room when the real fight begins.

BK

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My only message about Oswald is that he is the Patsy and Fall Guy and any interest in him merely distracts from the real assassins.

I suspect you are right.

And it just seems that you aren't really interested in space or the US Space program, just interested in bashing Jack White and his beliefs.

You say your interested in space and apollo but your not interested in the history of the apollo program, the independent contractors who made it happen, Paperclip or JFK's NSAM that concerns the moon project.

How can you possibly know my level of interest and knowledge of the Apollo programme? Why do you care? Why should it matter to you? Why are you complaining that some people choose to focus on what is important to them, rather than you?

It seems like this is not a JFK assassination debate, as the title of the forum suggests, because those who hold the radical beliefs about what happened, won't bother debating or even discussing the issues.

Then complain to the people with radical beliefs who aren't posting, rather than a "harmless believer" like me who knows "nothing of importance".

Dave Greer claims to be a space buff but he's a flake not a buff.

BK

I made no such claim. I said I was a space geek. We geeks are far cooler than buffs. It was clearly said in a jocular manner to show that I'm more interested both in Apollo and the hoax theories surrounding it, rather than the perilous state of the US Constitution. Not all humour travels well across the pond so it may not have come over that way. That said, this is indeed the JFK forum (albeit Jack posted the link to the interview on another sub-forum, which was closed, hence I posted here). You obviously feel as if my presence here is threatening the future of your country, so I shall leave you to rattle the cages of the silent radicals as you see fit.

You mean you're not going to stick around to find out why Jack White believes what he does or debate him over the issues?

Yea, the difference between a Geek and a Buff is the Geek leaves the room when the real fight begins.

BK

Screw Jack's "beliefs" They are meaningless. His photo related works however are simply not subject to "belief" (well except for his bunnies in the clouds stuff which is generally ignored) Photography can be dissected, subject to testing and some well defined physical laws. It's not a "black art". There is ample evidence produced by emperical testing that shows the gross misunderestanding of the photographic process by Jack White.

The question is not if Dave will stick around to defend, but rather will Jack. Jack has a very poor track record in this regard.

Edited by Craig Lamson

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You mean you're not going to stick around to find out why Jack White believes what he does or debate him over the issues?

As you pointed out William, this is the JFK sub-forum. If Jack has any more Apollo related studies he wants to present, I'm sure he'll post them in the correct sub-forum, and I'll quite happily debate him over any issues raised. If he wants to talk about JFK, this is the right forum. Given that I don't have a huge interest in the JFK conspiracy, surely you'd interpret any input from me as Jack-bashing? You can't have it both ways.

Yea, the difference between a Geek and a Buff is the Geek leaves the room when the real fight begins.

BK

Fight? What fight? The only fight Jack has started is accusing me of continually making attacks on him. I think he's going to have a problem proving that one. His Apollo studies, on the other hand, are fair game as far as I'm concerned. Jack shouldn't interpret refutations of his studies as personal attacks. If he's prepared to put those studies into the public domain, he should be prepared for people to examine them and demonstrate why they are flawed.

If Jack believed Oswald was a lone nut and posted 30 or 40 studies supporting his theory, would I be correct in calling you a "Jack basher" for falsifying his claims? I'll answer that one for you: no, I wouldn't be correct. Yet for pointing out the flaws in his Apollo studies I'm labelled a "Jack basher".

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You mean you're not going to stick around to find out why Jack White believes what he does or debate him over the issues?

As you pointed out William, this is the JFK sub-forum. If Jack has any more Apollo related studies he wants to present, I'm sure he'll post them in the correct sub-forum, and I'll quite happily debate him over any issues raised. If he wants to talk about JFK, this is the right forum. Given that I don't have a huge interest in the JFK conspiracy, surely you'd interpret any input from me as Jack-bashing? You can't have it both ways.

Yea, the difference between a Geek and a Buff is the Geek leaves the room when the real fight begins.

BK

Fight? What fight? The only fight Jack has started is accusing me of continually making attacks on him. I think he's going to have a problem proving that one. His Apollo studies, on the other hand, are fair game as far as I'm concerned. Jack shouldn't interpret refutations of his studies as personal attacks. If he's prepared to put those studies into the public domain, he should be prepared for people to examine them and demonstrate why they are flawed.

If Jack believed Oswald was a lone nut and posted 30 or 40 studies supporting his theory, would I be correct in calling you a "Jack basher" for falsifying his claims? I'll answer that one for you: no, I wouldn't be correct. Yet for pointing out the flaws in his Apollo studies I'm labelled a "Jack basher".

All of my Apollo studies are "into the public domain" and have been for years. Visit:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

http://www.aulis.com/skeleton.htm

Study all of them and post refutations of any or all of them on the Conspiracies Forum.

I will comment on any valid objections which contain no personal attacks.

Jack

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All of my Apollo studies are "into the public domain" and have been for years. Visit:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

http://www.aulis.com/skeleton.htm

Study all of them and post refutations of any or all of them on the Conspiracies Forum.

I will comment on any valid objections which contain no personal attacks.

Jack

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16032

Edited by Craig Lamson

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I feel that a moon hoax is not a sideshow, but an unexplored political area. A non-landing brings up NASA budget questions. What was the covert relation between NASA and the DOD? Was NASA a money launderer for Defense or intel projects? If they didn't spend it on the lunar surface...where did it go, and what other funding went with it?

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This thread started off dealing with a Jack White interview but is moving more and more into an Apollo discussion. We have a few options:

- Split the thread, moving Apollo posts to the PC section;

- Start a new thread in the PC section;

- Resurrect an existing Apollo thread in the PC section;

- Move this thread to the PC section; or

- Leave the thread as it is.

I'm happy with the last option if people don't mind the discussion going off-topic (i.e. discussing Apollo).

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This thread started off dealing with a Jack White interview but is moving more and more into an Apollo discussion. We have a few options:

- Split the thread, moving Apollo posts to the PC section;

- Start a new thread in the PC section;

- Resurrect an existing Apollo thread in the PC section;

- Move this thread to the PC section; or

- Leave the thread as it is.

I'm happy with the last option if people don't mind the discussion going off-topic (i.e. discussing Apollo).

How disingenuous can you be? It is you that steered this discussion toward Apollo.

Jack also started the same thread in the Political Conspiracies section by simply

posting a link to his interview. You chastised him for doing so and immediately

locked the thread. When he complained, you made his complaints invisible.

You made no mention of your actions here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=116841

Regardless of your personal opinions of Jack, he is a long-time member here who has

made a lot of valuable contributions. The title of his interview that he simply linked to without comment was:

An Interview with Photo Analyst Jack White On JFK, Apollo and 9/11

On what basis was it proper to lock the thread? Your transparent biases toward Jack White are

not reason enough. Until you posted the above statement, I was content to leave my complaint here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=194554

Edited by Michael Hogan

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