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The fall of Israel?

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I've previously supported Israeli actions as defending themselves in a hostile region, but over the last decade they have lost the moral high ground. They have increasingly changed from defending themselves to being the class bully. They have security concerns, but that does not give them the right to commit wanton acts of violence.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/israel-fends-o...00602-wzv4.html

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GLW: http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/44311 (incl. some short films and photos)

International outrage over Israel's slaughter of Gaza aid workers

Friday, June 4, 2010

Sydney June 1 protest against Israel's attack on Gaza Freedom Flotilla. Photo by Darrian Perry.

UPDATED JUNE 4 - International outrage has been expressed through ongoing mass protests around the world, condemnation of Israel's actions by most governments (apart from the US), and calls for the immediate lifting of Israel's blockade of Gaza. Nicaragua has suspended diplomatic ties with Israel and Sweden, Spain, Turkey and South Africa have recalled their envoys. Cuba, Venezuela and Bolivia had already cut their diplomatic ties with Israel.

The Swedish Port Workers will blockade all Israeli ships and cargo to and from Israel from June 15-24 in protest against the the Israeli attack on the peaceful ship convoy to Gaza.

The Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) called for support for the international boycott, divestment and sanction campaign against Israel and urged all South Africans to refuse to buy or handle any goods from Israel or have any dealings with Israeli businesses.

In Australia, the South Coast Labour Council and the NSW and ACT branches of the Australian Services Union (ASU) have joined the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU) in participating in the international Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign.

Many other trade unions and union federations have denounced the attack and taken some form of action. See here for latest trade union actions, from around the world, on this issue.

Australian PM Kevin Rudd said he "condemns any use of violence under the sorts of circumstances that we have seen", called on Israel to hold an "independent" inquiry into the incident and reiterated his government's opposition to Israel's military blockade of Gaza.

However, Rudd also said that he understood the "unique security challenges facing Israel" and made his criticisms as a "friend of Israel".

"We are friends; at times, however, the role of friends is to speak plainly and that is what Australia has done in relation to this matter," he said.

Mass rallies to be held this weekend around Australia (see here for details) will demand that the Australian government take a tougher stand against Israel's illegal and morally inexcusable actions.

Turkey - PM Erdoğan: “This action, totally contrary to the principles of international law, is inhumane state terrorism. No one should think we will keep quiet in face of this” - recalls ambassador - cancelled three military (NATO) drills involving Israel

Nicaragua: The Nicaraguan government suspended diplomatic ties with Israel in protest of the deadly raid on the Gaza-bound international aid flotilla.

Cuba: condemned the attack: Cuban UN Ambassador Rodolfo Reyes Rodríguez said Cuba "emphatically condemns the criminal attack" by the Israeli military. Cuba broke diplomatic relations with Israel many years ago.

Venezuela and Bolivia: President Hugo Chavez condemned the attack and said that the revolutionary government of Venezuela will "continue denouncing the terrorist and criminal nature of Israel, and it reaffirms, today more than ever, its unbreakable commitment with the fight of the Palestinian people for freedom, the sovereignty and dignity". Venezuela and Bolivia broke diplomatic with Israel in January 2009 after after the Israeli attack on south Lebanon.

Brazil: summoned the Israel ambassador and said "Brazil strongly condemns the Israeli operation since there is no justification for military intervention against humanitarian missions".

China - UN rep: "China is shocked by Israel's attack on a multinational convoy carrying international aid to Gaza ... we condemn Israel's actions targeting humanitarian workers and civilians ... we support a quick response by the Security Council and take necessary actions." Yang also expressed serious concern about the "grim" humanitarian situation in the occupied Palestinian territory, especially the Gaza Strip.

India: condemned the Israeli attack saying there could not be any justification for "such indiscriminate use of force".

Russia: denounced Israel's naval attack against a humanitarian aid flotilla as a gross breach of international law and demanded an end to the Israeli blockade of Gaza. Russia's Foreign Ministry expressed “condemnation and profound concern” and called for a thorough investigation ... drawing attention to the fact that it happened in international waters.

France: ''nothing can justify'' the attack

Greece: withdrew from joint military exercises with Israel and summoned Israel's ambassador

Spain: currently in the EU presidency, condemned the Israeli action. Madrid called the operation “unacceptable”, and summoned Israel’s ambassador.

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Austria and Greece summoned the heads of Israeli diplomatic missions in their capitals.

EU: foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, demanded Israel launch a full inquiry into the incident - "the European Union's position regarding Gaza - the continued policy of closure is unacceptable and politically counterproductive"

Lebanon: PM Saad Hariri calls the raid ''dangerous and crazy ... firmly denounces this attack and calls on the international community, notably major powers … to take action"

Syria: President Bashar Assad and visiting Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri slammed the "heinous crime" and the "flagrant violations for the most basic human rights."

Ireland: Foreign Minister Micheal Martin said the raid was a ''totally unacceptable response''

UN: SG Ban Ki-moon said he was "shocked by reports of killings and injuries" and called for a full investigation. UN Security Council on condemned the Israeli move, calling for "the immediate release" of the ships and personnel held by Israel.

USA: Obama "deeply regrets" the loss of life and is "working to understand the "circumstance surrounding this tragedy". The US government still does not oppose the blockade of Gaza and it is actively opposing mounting pressure for an independent international investigation of the attack on the aid flotilla.

Saudi Arabia: "considers today’s carnage an outrage against the whole world, reflecting Israel’s inhuman methods in challenging international laws. This also betrays Israel’s insistence on starving the Palestinian people by blockading any means of taking humanitarian aid to Palestine with the intention to kill innocent people”

Egypt: President Hosni Mubarak slammed the use of "excessive and unjustified force" in the raid - Foreign Ministry summons the Israeli ambassador to express its condemnation. Rafah Crossing to Gaza Strip opened for an "unlimited time".

Jordan: handed the Israeli charge d'affaires a protest note against what Information Minister Nabil Sharif described as a "heinous crime."

Arab League: called on the UN Security Council to demand an end to Israel’s blockade of Gaza.

Widespread condemnation

Numerous statements have been issued around the world in condemnation of Israel's assault on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla.

Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal is compiling a series of statements from progressive political parties and organisations from around the world. You can view them here.

The comments below were compiled by Palestinian Chronicle:

The following are selected statements made in response to the Israeli attack on the civilian ships:

Greta Berlin, Free Gaza Movement Spokesperson: "It's disgusting that they have come on board and attacked civilians. We are civilians. How could the Israeli military attack civilians like this? Do they think that because they can attack Palestinians indiscriminately they can attack anyone?" (BBC)

Navi Pillay, The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights: "I am shocked by reports that humanitarian aid was met with violence early this morning, reportedly causing death and injury as the boat convoy approached the Gaza coast .. the [Gaza] blockade keeps undermining human rights on a daily basis .. The current situation falls far short of what is necessary for the population to lead normal and dignified lives." (Press TV)

Amr Moussa, Arab League Secretary-General: "The Arab League strongly condemns this terrorist act." (BBC)

Ismail Haniyeh, democratically-elected Prime Minister of Palestine: "The Palestinian government honors the convoy's effort to break the siege. We consider all of the killed as Palestinian martyrs, martyrs of the siege on Gaza." (Press TV)

Ayman Mohyeldin, Al Jazeera's reporter in Jerusalem: "All the images being shown from the activists on board those ships show clearly that they were civilians and peaceful in nature, with medical supplies on board. So it will surprise many in the international community to learn what could have possibly led to this type of confrontation." (Aljazeera)

Turkish Foreign Ministry: "(The interception on the convoy) is unacceptable ... Israel will have to endure the consequences of this behavior." (Agencies and Aljazeera)

Mark Regev, Israeli Prime Minister's Spokesperson: "Though our naval servicemen were instructed to exercise maximum restraint, they were attacked. They were attacked with knives, with iron clubs, and also with live fire. We have unfortunately 10 servicemen injured, one of them very, very seriously. The violence was initiated unfortunately by these activists, and this is regrettable." (BBC)

Senior UN Officials Report Serry and Filippo Grandi: "We are shocked by reports of killings and injuries of people on board boats carrying supplies for Gaza, apparently in international waters. We condemn the violence and call for it to stop. The situation is still ongoing and we are awaiting confirmation of what has happened. We wish to make clear that such tragedies are entirely avoidable if Israel heeds the repeated calls of the international community to end its counterproductive and unacceptable blockade of Gaza." (BBC)

Ramzy Baroud, Palestinian-US journalist and author of My Father was a Freedom Fighter, Gaza's Untold Story: "What Israel has done tonight is most barbaric. It's an unmitigated crime against humanity and no one with a living conscious and a shred of humanity can stand idle as a sophisticated army attacks and slaughters international peace activists carrying medicine and toys while on their way to supporting a besieged nation. However, the murder of those activists, and the wounding and the arrest of hundreds will forever cement the ties between Palestine and international peace and justice forces the world over. Starting tonight, this conflict is no longer Israel vs. Palestine, but a criminal state vs. humanity." (PalestineChronicle.com)

Uri Avnery, Israeli journalist: "This night a crime was perpetrated in the middle of the sea, by order of the government of Israel and the IDF Command A warlike attack against aid ships and deadly shooting at peace and humanitarian aid activists It is a crazy thing that only a government that crossed all red lines can do." (Gush Shalom)

Mahmoud Abbas, acting Palestinian President: "What Israel has committed on board the Freedom Flotilla was a massacre." (Wafa news agency)

A spokesperson for Catherine Ashton, EU foreign policy chief: the official "expresses her deep regret at the news of loss of life and violence and extends her sympathies to families of the dead and wounded. On behalf of the European Union she demands a full inquiry about the circumstances in which this happened. ... She calls for an immediate, sustained and unconditional opening of the crossing for the flow of humanitarian aid, commercial goods and persons to and from Gaza." (Associated Press)

Daniel Ayalon, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister: "The armada of hate and violence in support of [the] Hamas terror organisation was a premeditated and outrageous provocation. The organisers are well known for their ties with global jihad, al-Qaeda and Hamas. They have a history of arms smuggling and deadly terror." (BBC)

Sami Abu Zuhri, Hamas's Spokesman: "We in Hamas consider the Israeli attack on the freedom flotilla as a great crime and a huge violation of international law. In spite of the great harm suffered by the people who joined this flotilla, we consider that their message has been delivered. Thanks to these heroes from other countries who showed their solidarity with Gaza, the Israeli siege is now an international issue and we consider that the occupiers, through this crime, are the ones under siege now." (BBC)

Bernard Kouchner, French Foreign Minister: "I am profoundly shocked by the tragic consequences of the Israeli military operation against the peace flotilla for Gaza. Nothing can justify the use of violence such as this, which we condemn. The circumstances of this drama must be fully brought to light and we wish for a thorough inquiry to be put in place without delay." (BBC)

Middle Eastern protests against Israeli attacks

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* 839

* International News

* Palestine

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From GLW issue 839

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Granma : http://www.granma.cu/ingles/international-...une-Murder.html

Murder in international waters

Elsa Claro

• THE Israeli government has exceeded all limits. That is nothing unusual because, whatever Zionist tendency is in power, each one has demonstrated an aggressiveness bordering on aberration.

It has placed the United States, so accustomed to pulling it out of the political fire every time it falls into an outrageous or contradictory situation, in a tight spot. That was evident at the end of the recent meeting on the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the central focus of global disarmament efforts.

The previous non-proliferation meeting in 2005 was unable to reach a final resolution that would at least set the bases for future commitments. This time around, the meeting was able to get the 189 signatories to ratify a treaty committing the nuclear arms states to implement the necessary measures to set about eliminating them. They did not set any dates, that is true, but there is now a basis, where previously there were only weak feeble intentions.

Despite having between 100 and 200 nuclear warheads, Israel is not a party to the agreement but, on the contrary, demonstrated its opposition to the decision of the all the others to try and keep the Middle East free of nuclear weapons. Israel was also asked to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to routine inspections, as is the case with all the other member countries. Its pretension to be unique is not acceptable.

But Israel snubbed the United States, placing it in a double-bind situation. The White House cannot oppose the conference demand without exposing Barack Obama to ridicule, because he has come out in favor of nuclear disarmament. The president himself, in spite of everything, issued a statement objecting to any attempt to single out Israel.

Nothing new, but a failure because, barely hours after that expression of support, the Israeli army attacked an international flotilla carrying humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip. Deaths and injuries; arrogant official justifications; incredible accusations from Tel Aviv against the aid volunteers, calling them agents of Al Qaeda; all increased the international condemnation, on the same day that the 14th Session of the UN Human Rights Council began in Geneva.

It remains to be seen how Washington can survive this bloody and senseless crime without completely destroying its badly damaged credibility.

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I've previously supported Israeli actions as defending themselves in a hostile region, but over the last decade they have lost the moral high ground. They have increasingly changed from defending themselves to being the class bully. They have security concerns, but that does not give them the right to commit wanton acts of violence.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/israel-fends-o...00602-wzv4.html

Israel lost the moral high-ground long ago. This case will reveal how much the current president of the US is under the control of the Israel lobby.

This article suggests that some of the aid workers were executed:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/0...autopsy-results

Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.

Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.

The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.

The findings emerged as more survivors gave their accounts of the raids. Ismail Patel, the chairman of Leicester-based pro-Palestinian group Friends of al-Aqsa, who returned to Britain today, told how he witnessed some of the fatal shootings and claimed that Israel had operated a "shoot to kill policy".

He calculated that during the bloodiest part of the assault, Israeli commandos shot one person every minute. One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him and another was shot once between the eyes. He added that as well as the fatally wounded, 48 others were suffering from gunshot wounds and six activists remained missing, suggesting the death toll may increase.

The new information about the manner and intensity of the killings undermines Israel's insistence that its soldiers opened fire only in self defence and in response to attacks by the activists.

"Given the very disturbing evidence which contradicts the line from the Israeli media and suggests that Israelis have been very selective in the way they have addressed this, there is now an overwhelming need for an international inquiry," said Andrew Slaughter MP, a member of the all party group on Britain and Palestine.

Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence. "The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a life-threatening situation," said a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London. "Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening situation."

Protesters from across the country will tomorrow march from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy to call for Israel to be held to account for its actions.

Earlier this week, William Hague, the foreign secretary, said the government would call for an inquiry under international auspices if Israel refuses to establish an independent inquiry, including an international presence.

The autopsy results were released as the last of the Turkish victims was buried.

Dr Haluk Ince, the chairman of the council of forensic medicine in Istanbul, said that in only one case was there a single bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other victim suffered multiple wounds. "All [the bullets] were intact. This is important in a forensic context. When a bullet strikes another place it comes into the body deformed. If it directly comes into the body, the bullet is all intact."

He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."

An unnamed Israeli commando, who purportedly led the raid on the Mavi Marmara, today told Israeli news website Ynet News that he shot at a protester who approached him with a knife. "I was in front of a number of people with knives and clubs," he said. "I cocked my weapon when I saw that one was coming towards me with a knife drawn and I fired once. Then another 20 people came at me from all directions and threw me down to the deck below …

"We knew they were peace activists. Though they wanted to break the Gaza blockade, we thought we'd encounter passive resistance, perhaps verbal resistance – we didn't expect this. Everyone wanted to kill us. We encountered terrorists who wanted to kill us and we did everything we could to prevent unnecessary injury."

Tonight the Rachel Corrie, an Irish vessel crewed by supporters of the Free Gaza movement, remained on course for Gaza. Yossi Gal, director general at the Israeli foreign ministry, said Israel had "no desire for a confrontation" but asked for the ship to dock at Ashdod, not Gaza.

"If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it," he said.

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I've previously supported Israeli actions as defending themselves in a hostile region, but over the last decade they have lost the moral high ground. They have increasingly changed from defending themselves to being the class bully. They have security concerns, but that does not give them the right to commit wanton acts of violence.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/israel-fends-o...00602-wzv4.html

Israel lost the moral high-ground long ago. This case will reveal how much the current president of the US is under the control of the Israel lobby.

This article suggests that some of the aid workers were executed:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/0...autopsy-results

Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.

Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.

The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.

The findings emerged as more survivors gave their accounts of the raids. Ismail Patel, the chairman of Leicester-based pro-Palestinian group Friends of al-Aqsa, who returned to Britain today, told how he witnessed some of the fatal shootings and claimed that Israel had operated a "shoot to kill policy".

He calculated that during the bloodiest part of the assault, Israeli commandos shot one person every minute. One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him and another was shot once between the eyes. He added that as well as the fatally wounded, 48 others were suffering from gunshot wounds and six activists remained missing, suggesting the death toll may increase.

The new information about the manner and intensity of the killings undermines Israel's insistence that its soldiers opened fire only in self defence and in response to attacks by the activists.

"Given the very disturbing evidence which contradicts the line from the Israeli media and suggests that Israelis have been very selective in the way they have addressed this, there is now an overwhelming need for an international inquiry," said Andrew Slaughter MP, a member of the all party group on Britain and Palestine.

Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence. "The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a life-threatening situation," said a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London. "Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening situation."

Protesters from across the country will tomorrow march from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy to call for Israel to be held to account for its actions.

Earlier this week, William Hague, the foreign secretary, said the government would call for an inquiry under international auspices if Israel refuses to establish an independent inquiry, including an international presence.

The autopsy results were released as the last of the Turkish victims was buried.

Dr Haluk Ince, the chairman of the council of forensic medicine in Istanbul, said that in only one case was there a single bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other victim suffered multiple wounds. "All [the bullets] were intact. This is important in a forensic context. When a bullet strikes another place it comes into the body deformed. If it directly comes into the body, the bullet is all intact."

He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."

An unnamed Israeli commando, who purportedly led the raid on the Mavi Marmara, today told Israeli news website Ynet News that he shot at a protester who approached him with a knife. "I was in front of a number of people with knives and clubs," he said. "I cocked my weapon when I saw that one was coming towards me with a knife drawn and I fired once. Then another 20 people came at me from all directions and threw me down to the deck below …

"We knew they were peace activists. Though they wanted to break the Gaza blockade, we thought we'd encounter passive resistance, perhaps verbal resistance – we didn't expect this. Everyone wanted to kill us. We encountered terrorists who wanted to kill us and we did everything we could to prevent unnecessary injury."

Tonight the Rachel Corrie, an Irish vessel crewed by supporters of the Free Gaza movement, remained on course for Gaza. Yossi Gal, director general at the Israeli foreign ministry, said Israel had "no desire for a confrontation" but asked for the ship to dock at Ashdod, not Gaza.

"If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it," he said.

Don't bring a knife to gun fight...

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Don't bring a knife to gun fight...

Are you making some sort of moral statement with this comment?

yea. IMO the floatilla got exactly what they wanted, a confrontation. Poor martyr's gunned down by the evil Jews, when all tthey had to defend themself with was knives, pipes and deckchairs.

And look, it worked so wonderfully, inciting the wrath of the so called well meaning in the world.

Edited by Craig Lamson

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Don't bring a knife to gun fight...

Are you making some sort of moral statement with this comment?

yea. IMO the floatilla got exactly what they wanted, a confrontation. Poor martyr's gunned down by the evil Jews, when all tthey had to defend themself with was knives, pipes and deckchairs.

And look, it worked so wonderfully, inciting the wrath of the so called well meaning in the world.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Craig dont bring a ship to a JET FIGHT (BTW SOME INFO HERE MAY BE DALLAS RELATED)

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/2010/06/uss-liberty-flubbed-up-false-flag.html

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Don't bring a knife to gun fight...

Are you making some sort of moral statement with this comment?

yea. IMO the floatilla got exactly what they wanted, a confrontation. Poor martyr's gunned down by the evil Jews, when all tthey had to defend themself with was knives, pipes and deckchairs.

And look, it worked so wonderfully, inciting the wrath of the so called well meaning in the world.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Craig dont bring a ship to a JET FIGHT (BTW SOME INFO HERE MAY BE DALLAS RELATED)

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/2010/06/uss-liberty-flubbed-up-false-flag.html

Wazzza matta Steve? You think those people on the flotilla were not itching for a fight???

Edited by Craig Lamson

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Apparently these were commandos rapelling in with eyewitness reports of them firing before touching down, people grabbed what they could to legitimately defend themselves. It was in international waters, ie piracy. I hope it doesn't become a non issue and then a precedent. Army conduct globally is already legitimising extreme measures and a breakdown in international morality setting everyone up for what we want the least. The major fightback seems to be from various unions around the world uniting on this issue. I hope history is not going to repeat itself.

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yea. IMO the floatilla got exactly what they wanted, a confrontation. Poor martyr's gunned down by the evil Jews, when all tthey had to defend themself with was knives, pipes and deckchairs.

And look, it worked so wonderfully, inciting the wrath of the so called well meaning in the world.

Your comments in this thread are proof that evolution isn't always an improvement.

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What the Pirates of the Mediterranean did to the flotilla was not any different than what they have been doing in Gaza for years.

It is despicable to say the least.

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Apparently these were commandos rapelling in with eyewitness reports of them firing before touching down, people grabbed what they could to legitimately defend themselves. It was in international waters, ie piracy. I hope it doesn't become a non issue and then a precedent. Army conduct globally is already legitimising extreme measures and a breakdown in international morality setting everyone up for what we want the least. The major fightback seems to be from various unions around the world uniting on this issue. I hope history is not going to repeat itself.

Reported by who, the people swinging the clubs? They sawed up parts of the ship to use as clubs. Was that done while the commandos were "on the rope"?

Edited by Craig Lamson

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yea. IMO the floatilla got exactly what they wanted, a confrontation. Poor martyr's gunned down by the evil Jews, when all tthey had to defend themself with was knives, pipes and deckchairs.

And look, it worked so wonderfully, inciting the wrath of the so called well meaning in the world.

Your comments in this thread are proof that evolution isn't always an improvement.

The political theater provide by the flotilla worked so wonderfully on you. You appear to be the perfect mark!

Edited by Craig Lamson

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yea. IMO the floatilla got exactly what they wanted, a confrontation. Poor martyr's gunned down by the evil Jews, when all tthey had to defend themself with was knives, pipes and deckchairs.

And look, it worked so wonderfully, inciting the wrath of the so called well meaning in the world.

Your comments in this thread are proof that evolution isn't always an improvement.

The political theater provide by the flotilla worked so wonderfully on you. You appear to be the perfect mark!

Yes, it was nothing but a theatre. Ships carrying humanitarian aid "weapons", people trying to slaughter the poor swat team with "weapons" such as marbles and plastic chairs...

What choice did the soldiers have other than shooting civilians at close range multiple times? Nothing could be as dangerous as a plastic chair!

If this is your reasoning, there is no sense arguing with you. You will remain ignorant of the Middle East conflict no matter how much and how often you are ridiculed for it.

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