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Did Myers add any new facts to the database [re: the REA topic]?

Yes, he did. And I have pointed out that additional information to Jim DiEugenio on several occasions since Dale provided that info on August 5, 2010 (which was actually a reprinted article of Myers' from 1998, but I certainly had not seen it until this month).

Myers cited a quote from the REA Vice President re: how packages are picked up via the REA Express system of delivery.

But Jim D. is apparently never going to get tired of saying that I backed Myers merely because an LNer (Myers) said the same thing a CTer (DiEugenio) had been saying all along. But that's simply not true. And I've told Jimmy D. this several times. [see my "EDIT" about 40% of the way down THIS WEBPAGE.]

Edited by David Von Pein

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The guy Myers quoted did not even testify to the WC.

LOL. So what?

It's still a quote from the REA VP.

Davey, did the WC call anyone who worked at the REA office in Dallas to the stand? If not, why not?

Probably because the Warren Commission knew that the question of "How Did LHO Pick Up His Revolver?" was merely a side/peripheral matter (at best).

IOW--Who cares how he got the gun? The WC knew for a FACT that Revolver V510210 was Oswald's gun and that that same gun was in Oswald's hands at 1:50 PM on Nov. 22 and that that same gun was the gun that killed Tippit.

Case closed on this issue. And it doesn't make a damn bit of difference which precise method was utilized by Oswald to obtain that gun in March. And it also doesn't make a bit of difference WHERE and WHEN he purchased the four bullets that he pumped into Tippit's body with that V510210 revolver.

Only in the world of "Anybody But Oswald" conspiracy mongers is such trivial information the slightest bit important. But to reasonable people--no.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Yes, Steve, the two items I mentioned above are, indeed, trivial when it comes to the Tippit case.

The 2 trivial items (questions) being:

1.) Where did Oswald pick up his S&W revolver--the post office or the Railway Express office?

2.) Where did Oswald get the bullets for his S&W revolver?

We do not need to know the answer to the above two questions in order to solve the Tippit murder (and in order to figure out that Lee Oswald was guilty of that murder).

Edited by David Von Pein

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The guy Myers quoted did not even testify to the WC.

LOL. So what?

It's still a quote from the REA VP.

Davey, did the WC call anyone who worked at the REA office in Dallas to the stand? If not, why not?

Probably because the Warren Commission knew that the question of "How Did LHO Pick Up His Revolver?" was merely a side/peripheral matter (at best).

IOW--Who cares how he got the gun? The WC knew for a FACT that Revolver V510210 was Oswald's gun and that that same gun was in Oswald's hands at 1:50 PM on Nov. 22 and that that same gun was the gun that killed Tippit.

Case closed on this issue. And it doesn't make a damn bit of difference which precise method was utilized by Oswald to obtain that gun in March. And it also doesn't make a bit of difference WHERE and WHEN he purchased the four bullets that he pumped into Tippit's body with that V510210 revolver.

Only in the world of "Anybody But Oswald" conspiracy mongers is such trivial information the slightest bit important. But to reasonable people--no.

Dave

If Ruby had'nt shot him you would have been waiting outside with a rope and a posse of L/N's. Innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt I would bet money you own a white Stetson?.

Ian

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I'm against those who bang the drum to rid the forum of Lone Nutters, as their objections can and will be overcome, but only if they are given the chance to voice them.

Bill Kelly

Can and will be overcome? Chance to voice their objections?

You already stated that it can be demonstrated that things couldn't have happened the way the

Warren Report described it. Sounds like your mind is already made up. What is the point of debating it?

Are they going to offer something new that convinces you Oswald did it by himself?

Their objections were overcome more than forty years ago. I suppose some still will be wasting

their time attempting to overcome objections from Warren Report believers a hundred years from now.

As far as I'm concerned it is a slight to the memory and brave efforts of the first generation critics

to believe today that the veracity of the Warren Report is still debatable.

Bill: Tell us one time here on the Ed Forum where a LN has changed his or her mind in the face of reasoned debate and overwhelming evidence. They are not here to debate or learn. They post in places like this to confuse, waste time, and spread disinformation. THAT is their only agenda. Odd that you and others would welcome this.

Dawn

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Ian,

Why not try following the ACTUAL EVIDENCE in the case to where it leads sometime, instead of following the pack of Anybody-But-Oswald evidence-manglers?

And if there was ever a case where the ACTUAL EVIDENCE has been mangled and misrepresented beyond all tolerance by conspiracy theorists, it's certainly the JFK/Tippit case.

Heavens to Murgatroyd--some people in this forum are actually suggesting Oswald never sent in EITHER one of his order forms for the rifle and revolver!

The people who suggest such a ridiculous thing must certainly realize that they have to say that KLEIN'S in Chicago is "in" on a plot to frame Oswald too. The CTers who take this stand have no choice BUT to believe the Klein's people are conspirators, because the Klein's records indicate that they received an order from HIDELL in March '63 and they shipped a rifle to HIDELL in March '63.

I wonder how the WC got William Waldman to tell lie after lie about KLEIN'S OWN RECORDS regarding the sale of Rifle C2766 to HIDELL?

And the same type of allegations of misconduct have to be directed toward Seaport Traders too, because Seaport has records of THEIR OWN that indicate they received a mail order from HIDELL for a revolver and that they mailed Revolver V510210 to HIDELL at OSWALD'S Dallas post office box.

According to these silly conspiracists who think Oswald never even ordered his guns, there is evidently no end to the number of people that the police and/or Warren Commission were able to get to tell lie after lie in their never-ending desire to paint Lee Oswald as the murderer of both JFK and J.D. Tippit.

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Ian,

Why not try following the ACTUAL EVIDENCE in the case to where it leads sometime, instead of following the pack of Anybody-But-Oswald evidence-manglers?

And if there was ever a case where the ACTUAL EVIDENCE has been mangled and misrepresented beyond all tolerance by conspiracy theorists, it's certainly the JFK/Tippit case.

Heavens to Murgatroyd--some people in this forum are actually suggesting Oswald never sent in EITHER one of his order forms for the rifle and revolver!

The people who suggest such a ridiculous thing must certainly realize that they have to say that KLEIN'S in Chicago is "in" on a plot to frame Oswald too. The CTers who take this stand have no choice BUT to believe the Klein's people are conspirators, because the Klein's records indicate that they received an order from HIDELL in March '63 and they shipped a rifle to HIDELL in March '63.

I wonder how the WC got William Waldman to tell lie after lie about KLEIN'S OWN RECORDS regarding the sale of Rifle C2766 to HIDELL?

And the same type of allegations of misconduct have to be directed toward Seaport Traders too, because Seaport has records of THEIR OWN that indicate they received a mail order from HIDELL for a revolver and that they mailed Revolver V510210 to HIDELL at OSWALD'S Dallas post office box.

According to these silly conspiracists who think Oswald never even ordered his guns, there is evidently no end to the number of people that the police and/or Warren Commission were able to get to tell lie after lie in their never-ending desire to paint Lee Oswald as the murderer of both JFK and J.D. Tippit.

Dave

O.K. you got me just show me the order for the 40" rifle and I and many others will disappear.

Ian

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I agree with Bill Kelley.

These debates are not just for the few who participate, but for the many many others who actively lurk here.

Did anyone read Otto's post (#128)?. In it he says:

François, it is too bad that you have decided to leave. John Simkin recently said that he allows all points of view for better or worse. Free speech. I believe in that too. I am a CT'er in so far as I don't believe in the single/magic bullet theory. Beyond that I am still learning. I appreciate the opinion of anyone who has spent years researching the various aspects of this case despite what conclusions they have made. Why not stick to the facts instead of worrying about who is telling lies? The above quote only makes it seem as if you are obsessed with an individual, not that facts. I have been a lurker in this forum for years and it's disappointing (though not surprising) to read the petty insults both sides sling at each other. It's amazing to me that someone can spend so much time researching and then be reduced to melodramatic childish banter when confronted with an opposing view. Perhaps it's human nature.

Good luck to you -

Otto

That folks like Otto are learning from seeing both sides is very important.

I believe Pat Speer is also correct in his view. He writes:

Now, that said, I respect you for admitting you were wrong about the ammo boxes, and hope you stick around on the forum. While threads such as this usually end up leading us nowhere, there are many threads on this forum filled with valuable information. Unfortunately, IMO, many of these same threads reflect a clear CT bias, and contain occasional bits of misinformation. If you and the other LNs to recently join this forum, e.g. Reitzes, Von Pein, could add factual corrections or alternative viewpoints to these threads--free of vitriol, and claims of cognitive superiority--it might yet prove helpful to those reading these threads in the future
.

To put a stop in an opposing side just because one side feels it is correct, is not fruitful at all. The only way to overcome an objection is to know what the objection is.

Pat's statement about claims of cognitive superiority, unfortunately, runs both ways.

Kathy

Edited by Kathy Beckett

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Dave, O.K. you got me. Just show me the order for the 40" rifle and I and many others will disappear.

It doesn't matter that an order for a "40-inch" rifle wasn't sent in by Oswald to Klein's.

The key fact is that Oswald's/(Hidell's) order for a 36-inch rifle was filled with a FORTY-INCH gun (#C2766). Regardless of what Oswald ordered, Klein's sent him C2766. We know that beyond all doubt (thanks to Waldman Exhibit No. 7 below, which many CTers have no choice but to think is a phony document).

But, then too, if Waldman #7 is phony/fake, then why in the world didn't the people faking all of this stuff (such as Waldman #7 and Oswald's order form, etc.) see to it that the LENGTHS OF THE RIFLES matched up? Looks like, once again, we're confronted with a group of totally inept goofballs who were serving as the patsy-framers.

But what really happened is much less sinister, of course -- i.e., Klein's was very likely out of stock of the 36-inch Carcano rifles, and they shipped Oswald/Hidell a 40-inch model instead. And I'd be willing to bet the farm that Oswald never even noticed the difference.

BTW, even if I could provide you with a 40-inch rifle order from Oswald, it wouldn't make the CTers give up on this issue. Not by a longshot. Because a bunch of them also think ALL of the other documents that prove Oswald ordered his Mannlicher-Carcano from Klein's Sporting Goods have been faked and manufactured too (e.g., the Klein's order form and the money order for $21.45).

Of course, as mentioned before, this type of thinking begs the question: Why didn't the brain-dead plotters make sure they "sent" the patsy the same rifle that they wanted everybody in the world to think he ordered--a 36-incher? I guess maybe the dumber-than-dirt plotters ran out of 36-inch rifles too, huh? Otherwise, they'd have "sent" their patsy a 36-inch Carcano instead of the 40-inch gun they framed him with. Right?

Waldman No. 7:

WaldmanExhibitNo7.jpg?t=1279170764

Edited by David Von Pein

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E-MAIL FROM GARY MACK OF THE SIXTH FLOOR MUSEUM AT DEALEY PLAZA:

Date: 8/17/2010 9:56:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Gary Mack

To: David Von Pein

--------------------------

Dave,

I looked up the Klein's ads for 1963 and found that the next issue after February 1963 and all the issues afterward showed the 40" rifle. I don't have my notes here at the house, so the April 1963 issue, which would have mailed in mid-March so the ad had to have been changed prior to that, may be the first with the 40" weapon.

So that is exactly what must have happened. Klein's ran out of 36" rifles very quickly and substituted the longer weapon. They may have notified customers ahead of time, but there's no record of that happening.

Gary

Edited by David Von Pein

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Why are you posting for Gary Mack David?

Whats wrong Gary? You to scared to post? How long are you going to hide behind your lame job excuse for not posting?

Come on Gary make a post! I dare you!

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Gary Mack didn't ask me to post his e-mail, Dean. I did it on my own.

And, of course, whatever you do, Dean, make sure you COMPLETELY IGNORE Gary's valuable input on the "40-inch vs. 36-inch" Carcano topic. It's always best if CTers ignore this evidence about the Klein's ads, so that they can continue to pretend that Oswald couldn't possibly in a million years have been sent a 40-inch Carcano from Klein's in late March of 1963:

"I looked up the Klein's ads for 1963 and found that the next issue after February 1963 and all the issues afterward showed the 40" rifle. I don't have my notes here at the house, so the April 1963 issue, which would have mailed in mid-March so the ad had to have been changed prior to that, may be the first with the 40" weapon.

"So that is exactly what must have happened. Klein's ran out of 36"

rifles very quickly and substituted the longer weapon. They may have notified customers ahead of time, but there's no record of that

happening." -- Gary Mack; 8/17/10

Edited by David Von Pein

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Dean, make sure you COMPLETELY IGNORE Gary's valuable input

I completely ignore any and all input from Gary Mack

Until he mans up and starts posting all on his own who cares what he says

Edited by Dean Hagerman

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Gary Mack didn't ask me to post his e-mail, Dean. I did it on my own.

And, of course, whatever you do, Dean, make sure you COMPLETELY IGNORE Gary's valuable input on the "40-inch vs. 36-inch" Carcano topic. It's always best if CTers ignore this evidence about the Klein's ads, so that they can continue to pretend that Oswald couldn't possibly in a million years have been sent a 40-inch Carcano from Klein's in late March of 1963:

"I looked up the Klein's ads for 1963 and found that the next issue after February 1963 and all the issues afterward showed the 40" rifle. I don't have my notes here at the house, so the April 1963 issue, which would have mailed in mid-March so the ad had to have been changed prior to that, may be the first with the 40" weapon.

"So that is exactly what must have happened. Klein's ran out of 36"

rifles very quickly and substituted the longer weapon. They may have notified customers ahead of time, but there's no record of that

happening." -- Gary Mack; 8/17/10

But the question has not yet been answered as to why Oswald would go to the trouble of ordering the weapons through the mail with money orders and an alias and Post Office Box when he could have just bought them down the street at Green's for cash and no record of his being the purchaser?

It would be appreciated if anyone could come up with a plausible reason for him to do this.

Thanks,

BK

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