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John Simkin

John Abt and Lee Harvey Oswald

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Wow. No wonder the KGB thought he was a goofball!

I'm sure we all respect the opinions of the KGB, but does any of this tell us ANYTHING about who killed JFK?

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Watch first guy under arrow at 6.41, from the beginning, particularly as Ruby is being subdued. He has, to my knowledge yet to be identified. BTW, the schematics are on the dallas archive, from memory an unindexed, fiddle with the html identifiers, particularly good copy is there as well as various lists, plus all the statements online, I'm sure the answer is in there. Haven't looked at the issue for some time now. Has anyone Id'd this man yet?

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does any of this tell us ANYTHING about who killed JFK?

Maybe; maybe not. What it does tell us is that he was not the person you portray him to be.

As for the KGB's opinion of him... they were not in the loop (nor was most of the CIA). This was a deal put together between Ike's "Special Group" and Nixon and certain high level Kremlin types, and assisted by the CIA Soviet Desk. Oswald was chosen for the trip partly because he fit the defector profile, not the ivy league agent profile. The KGB's opinion was exactly as it was supposed to be.

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The KGB's opinion was exactly as it was supposed to be.

But you just cited the KGB opinion of Oz as though it were gospel

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The KGB's opinion was exactly as it was supposed to be.

But you just cited the KGB opinion of Oz as though it were gospel

That's right, Ray. The Gospel according to you.

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That's right, Ray. The Gospel according to you.

You can search this forum back 5 years, Greg, to the date when I first joined, but you will never never find me citing the opinions of the KGB (or anyone else) as proof that Oz was involved in -- or knew anything about -- the assassination of JFK.

That is your bailiwick, and the bailiwick of Warren Commission believers like yourself.

Listen to this and Try Again.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll

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That's right, Ray. The Gospel according to you.

You can search this forum back 5 years, Greg, to the date when I first joined, but you will never never find me citing the opinions of the KGB (or anyone else) as proof that Oz was involved in -- or knew anything about -- the assassination of JFK.

That is your bailiwick, and the bailiwick of Warren Commission believers like yourself.

Listen to this and Try Again.

No Ray. It's you who needs to try again. I never said you cited the opinion of the KGB as proof that Oswald was involved in the assassination. That is your rather ludicrous spin to escape the corner into which you have painted yourself. What you have done is cite the KGB as proof that Oswald was not an agent during the time he spent in the Soviet Union. You seem to have agreed in the past with the KGB's assessment that he was nothing but a foolish and confused individual and ergo... not agent material.

As for the WC... it is you who employs all the tricks of Warren Commission supporters to avoid the arguments you cannot win. Quoting out of context and putting false arguments up to knock down. Priceless.

Edited by Greg Parker

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That is your rather ludicrous spin to escape the corner into which you have painted yourself.

From my corner I will keep on ridiculing the false accusations you keep on dreaming up against an innocent man, Lee Oswald.

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On 3/22/2005 at 1:29 PM, Jim Root said:

....

Pinging Mr. Root in this thread because I noticed that he never posted in it; perhaps he never saw it.

I noticed in the document linked below, that an alias for David Phillips is "Mr. Abbott". I am wondering if this was previously known. I searched for a while but did not find anything.

The question that this raises for me is... Did Oswald actually request to speak with Phillips, using the name Abt, or Abbott? Was "John Abt" quickly used as cover for Oswald's actual request for Phillips? Is this what got him killed?

P. 109 of this doc. Identifies "Mr. Abbott" as a cover name for Dave Phillips.

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/180-10145-10210.pdf

Edited by Michael Clark

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John Newman just let me know that the "Mr. Abbott" Crypto is indeed a known Crypto for Dave Phillips. (Countdown to Darkness, P.425)

Edited by Michael Clark

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Hello Michael

What I find most interesting about Oswald's attempts to contact Jonathon Abt is the verity of ways he tried to connect with Abt. Apparently there was a number of attempts to contact Abt by phone (at various numbers) as well as making request to individuals who visited Oswald while he was in custody.  I do find the fact that Abt had argued the Smith Act before the Supreme Court of interest, mostly because Oswald seems to have been familiar with the man based on the arguments he made and perhaps the relationship to Oswald's own pending case.

More importantly to me is the correlation or lack thereof between the number of times Oswald attempted to contact Abt and the single time he attempted to contact John Hurt.  This is what leads me to believe that the name "John Hurt" was itself used to send a message to someone in Raleigh, North Carolina versus an actual attempt to contact someone named John Hurt.  As I have discussed in earlier posts "A" John Hurt was a part of William Friedman's Team that formed the nucleus of what became the National Security Agency.  Both Frank Rowlett and Meridith Gardner, who would do investigation of Oswald for intelligence connection for the Warren Commission were both closely associated with both Hurt and in addition the Venona Project. During WWII the some of the work that John Hurt was doing would make it directly to the desk of Asst. Sec. of War John J. McCloy.  perhaps of the greatest interest to me is that the post World War II work that John Hurt did for the NSA is still classified till this day.

My suggestion is that Oswald  knowing the name John Hurt and using it while contacting someone in Raleigh, North Carolina created a mess for the Secrete Service who were listening in when Oswald attempted that call.  Was a "cutout" the recipient of that call? Perhaps......That question has led me to an interesting avenue of research!

Jim Root

Edited by Jim Root
attempt to correct grammer

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