In Lee Harvey Oswald's Room

[David Von Pein]

I'm 50/50 on whether or not Oswald did, in fact, shoot Tippit.

Well, I'll give you at least a smidgen of credit then, Martin. You're 50% ahead of the other ABO mongers that occupy this forum.

[David Von Pein]

The [Tippit] ballistics evidence has major problems that may or may not render it useless.

What about the two bullet shells recovered by B. Davis and V. Davis? Those two shells don't have any "JM Poe" type difficulties.

Therefore, how can Oswald possibly be innocent when we know that those two bullet shells (with an undisputed chain of custody from the Davis girls to Doughty & Dhority) were ejected from Revolver V510210 that was in the hands of Lee Harvey Oswald just 35 minutes after Tippit was killed?

Edited August 18, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Great post, Lee. Thanks for IDing yourself as an "EVERYBODY WAS A xxxx" schmuck, in addition to being a charter member in the popular "ANYBODY BUT OSWALD" club of oddballs and schmucks too.

So, per Lee "Schmuck" Farley:

Brewer was a xxxx.

McDonald was a xxxx.

CT Walker was a xxxx.

Bentley was a xxxx.

G. Hill was a xxxx.

Ruth Paine was a xxxx.

Will Fritz was a xxxx.

Barbara Davis was a xxxx.

V. Davis was a xxxx.

Scoggins was a xxxx.

Markham was a xxxx.

Tatum was a xxxx.

Callaway was a xxxx.

All members of the WC were liars.

All members of the HSCA were liars.

All 4 Clark Panel members were liars.

My fingers are cramping. I can't type in the other 3,974 liars here in this post. Maybe Farley can finish the list of liars for me....you know, the ones who were desperate to frame that dear innocent LHO as their patsy for TWO murders. And that's not even counting the number of PRE-assassination plotters who were attempting to frame the same patsy that the WC/HSCA and all of the above post-11/22 liars were also trying to frame. Amazing like-mindedness there, eh Farley?

BTW, I thought you were done with me, Farley.

Please keep your promises next time.

[David Von Pein]

Date: 8/18/2010 3:28:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Gary Mack

To: David Von Pein

--------------------

Dave,

Thanks to The Sixth Floor Museum’s collection, today I examined all 1963 issues of the American Rifleman and here is what I found:

Jan 63 -- p. 61 -- 36” “6.5 Italian Carbine” -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope)

Feb 63 -- p. 65 -- Same ad as above

Mar 63 -- No ad

Apr 63 -- p. 55 -- 40” “6.5 Italian Carbine” -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope)

May 63 -- Missing pp. 63-66

Jun 63 -- p. 59 -- 40” “6.5 Italian Carbine” -- $12.88 -- $19.95 (with scope)

Jul 63 -- p. 67 -- 40” “6.5 Italian Carbine” -- $12.78 -- $19.95 (with scope)

Aug 63 -- p. 79 -- Same ad as above

Sep 63 -- p. 89 -- Same ad as above

Oct 63 -- p. 85 -- Same ad as above

Nov 63 -- No ad

Dec 63 -- No ad

So as I suggested earlier, Oswald ordered the 36” rifle but, probably due to Klein’s running out of stock, he received the 40” model instead. The price remained the same, so Klein’s may have just sent him the newly available model instead. They would certainly accept a return if he didn’t want it.

The Museum’s copy of the May 1963 issue is missing four pages and, since Klein’s ads normally ran in the back half of the magazine, it was likely on one of those pages. But as you can see, the ad for the months before and after May showed the exact same 40” rifle.

I don’t know when the American Rifleman normally went to press, but I would think they’d want the new issue to appear on the newsstands and in subscriber’s mailboxes at or shortly before the beginning of each month. That would mean all ad copy must be ready and in the hands of the publisher at least 30 days ahead of time, maybe more.

If Klein’s ran out of 36” rifles in January, they might not even have enough time to get a corrected ad in by the March deadline. Maybe that’s why there was no ad in the March issue? Perhaps Klein’s sold out of the Carcano and other weapons and just couldn’t update their new ad before the deadline?

Gary Mack

Edited August 18, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

2.) Oswald's acting "funny" and "scared" after shooting a no-mark cop, but when Marion [sic] Baker sees him after shooting the President of the United States, he's as calm as a cucumber? Make sense to you?

Yes. It makes perfect sense. And if you think about it for a few minutes, you'll see why it makes perfect sense too.

[David Von Pein]

Would you like tell everyone on the board, just for future reference, how you would like us all to incorrectly spell Officer Marion [sic] Baker's name please?

Why are you yelling at me for pointing out your obvious mistake? Officer Marrion L. Baker's first name is spelled with two Rs, not one. (As illustrated by the photo of 3 H 242 seen below.) That was the reason for my previous "[sic]".

Too many green apples today, Lee?

Edited August 18, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

BTW, I'm in a better mood today...

Could have fooled me. You sound like an old crank to me. I liked you better yesterday, Mr. ABO.

...and have a higher threshold for PAIN whilst reading your BS. Better stock up on those vomit bags.

Yeah, you got that right. Between the ABO crap dished out here in copious quantities by you and Jim DiEugenio (alone), my vomit bags are getting plenty of use, let me tell you.

[David Von Pein]

You're as see through as a piece of Reynold's Wrap.

LOL. Lee is having a very bad (and cranky) day. Because you can't "see through" Reynold's Wrap. It's a solid packaging material. Not clear.

Continue, though, Mr. Crank. I'm enjoying the laughs.

[Bernie Laverick]

You're as see through as a piece of Reynold's Wrap.

LOL. Lee is having a very bad (and cranky) day. Because you can't "see through" Reynold's Wrap. It's a solid packaging material. Not clear.

Continue, though, Mr. Crank. I'm enjoying the laughs.

A long day. LOL.

Here's me trying to AmericaniZe my examples for you and you throw them back in my face. Tut tut tut

Seems perfectly see through to me!

Edited August 18, 2010 by Bernie Laverick

[Dean Hagerman]

So as I suggested earlier, Oswald ordered the 36” rifle but, probably due to Klein’s running out of stock, he received the 40” model instead.

What amazing speculation on Garys part

Its too bad Gary couldnt post that himself so I could rip him a new one

Come on Gary, step up to the plate

[David Von Pein]

Shall we go back to the ammo box that was only "written over in Italian" that Gary Mack gave you and Francois?

I'd like to see that Italian ammo box, Jim. Have you got a picture of it? Because, as I told you yesterday, my earlier remarks about the "Italian" ammo were not based on my having personally seen the actual markings on any such Italian-manufactured ammunition that was found at an Irving, Texas, gravel pit.

My remarks stemmed from having seen only the picture below:

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Dean Hagerman]

Dean:

Gary Mack stepped up to the plate with the MC ammo "index card" that everyone and the WC had somehow overlooked. Remember? And Francois was so eager to throw it at me that he used it without checking it first. Which is something you have to do with Larry Dunkel/Gary Mack ever since he switched sides and went over to Dave Perry and the Sixth Floor cover up.

Believe me, after reviewing his two Discovery Channel debacles, ITTC and JFK: The Ruby Connection, I know you can't trust anything the guy says without looking it up. Francois didn't.

Gary Mack is kind of like the Mighty Casey in that regard.

Jim

I agree with you on all points about Gary-Larry Mack-Dunnkel

[David Von Pein]

So here you go saying Oswald killed Tippit and yet, you cannot even:

1. Prove he had the revolver in his possession

2. Prove the bullets came from that revolver

3. Prove the shells were fired at Tippit that day

4. Prove the automatic shells were not switched

5. Prove Oswald ever purchased ammo--remember the fast frisk that came up with nothing?

And to top it off, someone dropped a mock up of Oswald's wallet at the scene. And Oswald's prints are not on the car.

Jim is delusional (as usual). He props up the most ridiculous things in his lame attempts to exonerate a double-killer....such as ALL of the above.

And I love #4 -- Jimbo seems to thinks it's incumbent upon ME to prove that the shells "WERE NOT SWITCHED", instead of Jim having to prove that they WERE "switched".

Sorry, James, that's not how it works. And you, of course, know it.

And Jim's fifth item above seems to suggest that Jim now believes the 5 bullets were PLANTED on the person of Lee Oswald. LOL. Please tell me, Jim, that you truly believe that those bullets were "planted" in Oswald's pocket by the police. I want to see you type that out for everybody to see.

And while you're at it, why not tell us how you think the paper bus transfer was "planted" in LHO's pocket too. You surely believe that item was planted too, don't you Jim? Remember, there are no creases or folds in it. That PROVES it was planted, right?!

You like to argue in circles. And after every round you lose, you just start over somewhere else. Never acknowledging you cannot prove anything even though you are the prosecution and bear the burden of proof.

LOL. I love that last hunk of crap, coming as it does right on the heels of Jimbo's #4 item of insanity above. Allow me to place these two gems from Jimbo The Delusional back-to-back, so that the LOL and Pot/Kettle effects from these remarks can sink in even more:

"Prove the automatic shells were not switched."

"You are the prosecution and bear the burden of proof."

Let's take Jim's riduculous and insane list of things, one-by-one:

1.) "Prove he had the revolver in his possession" --- Jim wants me to prove that Lee Harvey Oswald had Smith & Wesson Revolver No. V510210 "in his possession".

This first item on Jim's list doesn't even warrant a reply, because it's so utterly stupid and idiotic, but I'll play along anyway--just for the laughs.

Oswald was caught RED-HANDED with that EXACT revolver (Serial Number #V510210) in his hands when he was arrested in the Texas Theater on 11/22/63, just thirty-five minutes after a policeman had been murdered with that EXACT SAME GUN.

Jim D., as we all can see by now, is totally delusional, and will continue to ignore the BEST EVIDENCE in the JFK and J.D. Tippit murder cases until he draws his last breath of polluted Los Angeles air.

2.) "Prove the bullets came from that revolver" --- Given the sum total of all the evidence in the Tippit case (including the ballistics evidence and eyewitness testimony), the bullets that killed J.D. Tippit had NO CHOICE but to have come out of Smith & Wesson Revolver #V510210.

And part of that "sum total" of evidence is the testimony of Illinois firearms identification expert Joseph D. Nicol, who testified that it was his opinion that one of the four bullets that was removed from J.D. Tippit's body had positively been fired from S&W revolver #V510210 to the exclusion of all other weapons [see 3 H 512].

It is true, however, that none of the FBI firearms experts who also examined the same Tippit bullets would say that any of the bullets could be matched to the S&W revolver "to the exclusion". But Nicol is on record as saying it was his opinion that ONE of the bullets (but only one) could be linked conclusively to that revolver.

And that's kind of funny in and of itself. I mean, here we have various firearms guys from the FBI looking at the same bullets that Nicol was examining, but the FBI men (led by, according to Jim DiEugenio, one of the chief "Let's Pin Everything On Oswald" cover-up operatives connected to the case, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover) are the ones who DIDN'T say that any of the Tippit bullets could be conclusively matched to Oswald's pistol. But the INDEPENDENT firearms guy who was brought in by the Warren Commission, Joe Nicol, DID say that one bullet could be linked to LHO's gun.

I just think that's kind of ironic, considering the great lengths that conspiracy theorists like Mr. DiEugenio have gone to in order to smear Hoover and his Federal Bureau of Investigation when it comes to the JFK case.

If we're to believe DiEugenio when it comes to how bad the FBI conducted itself in this double-murder case, you would think that those final determinations regarding the Tippit bullets would have been reversed--with the rotten, evil FBI boys saying that one or more bullets could be tied irrevocably to the gun that was owned by their all-time favorite patsy.

BTW, Jim, why didn't the FBI lie and just go along with Nicol's "to the exclusion" conclusion?

Food for thought anyway.

When it comes down to the brass tacks and the meat-and-potatoes of the situation, Jim DiEugenio HAS to know that Oswald's V510210 revolver killed Tippit. But, as he always does, Jimbo will grab for the chaff instead of harvesting the wheat that is consuming him.

The "wheat", of course, in this instance (apart from the one bullet that Nicol said was definitely fired from Oswald's gun) would include the four bullet shells that littered Tenth Street just after Officer Tippit was killed.

And even WITHOUT the two "Poe" shells, Oswald's guilt can be conclusively established--via the OTHER TWO SHELLS that were picked up by two more civilian witnesses at the scene of the crime (Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis), which are two bullet shells/hulls that did not pass through the hands of Dallas Patrolman J.M. Poe.

3.) "Prove the shells were fired at Tippit that day" --- Here again we're treated to another example of a conspiracy theorist looking sideways at some of the evidence and declaring, in effect, "This evidence is not what it seems to be".

CTers are experts at dredging up the "Nothing Is What It Seems To Be" dodge when it comes to virtually all of the evidence connected with BOTH President Kennedy's and J.D. Tippit's murders.

The conspiracy-happy clowns like DiEugenio, of course, are FORCED to dredge up that silly argument. Because if they don't, then their #1 patsy named Lee Harvey is as guilty as Hitler.

So, as part of this dodge, DiEugenio wants me to prove that the four bullet shells that were found and recovered at the Tippit murder scene itself on the day of the murder were, in fact, fired at Tippit from Oswald's revolver that very same day.

Anyone on the planet, of course, could utilize this same type of silly dodge. In fact, I think I'll turn the tables on Delusional Jim and ask the very same thing of him right now:

Hey Jim -- Prove to me that that "pointy-nosed" bullet that you say was the real stretcher bullet found by Darrell Tomlinson at Parkland Hospital was really fired at somebody on November 22, 1963?

And also prove to me that the bullet you say was found and handled by Deputy Sheriff Al Maddox was really fired on 11/22/63. Maybe that bullet had been in Dealey Plaza since 1955. Who can tell, right?

And the same question applies to the other non-Oswald bullets and shells that you think were found in and around the Dealey Plaza crime scene. Prove that any of those bullets/shells were fired from guns being aimed at John F. Kennedy on November 22nd.

4.) "Prove the automatic shells were not switched" --- Well, since no "automatic" shells were ever left at the murder scene by the ONE AND ONLY gunman who killed Tippit (with that gunman being Lee Oswald, of course), then this #4 item on Jim's list is really pretty much moot in the first place.

Once again, we've got Jim D. doing a really, really rotten job of evaluating the TOTALITY of the evidence in this case.

Jim knows full well that there was ONLY ONE PERSON firing ONLY ONE GUN at Officer J.D. Tippit on 10th Street. And since automatic weapons will AUTOMATICALLY eject their spent shells after bullets are fired from those guns, this would mean that if Jim is correct, then the killer with the AUTOMATIC gun was firing at Tippit from the CORNER of 10th Street and Patton Avenue (which, of course, is the area where all four of Oswald's spent bullet cartridges were found after the shooting).

Or, as an alternative (and the only alternative Jim The Delusional has here), I guess the gunman who fired the automatic weapon at Tippit picked up his automatic shell casings near Tippit's patrol car (which is, of course, the location where the one and only gunman [Oswald] was seen firing bullets at Tippit) and then carried those automatic shells to the corner of Tenth & Patton and then threw them on the ground.

DiEugenio, of course, knows that neither of the above two alternatives really took place, and Jim also knows that's it's highly unlikely that ALL THREE of the civilian witnesses (Domingo Benavides, Virginia Davis, and Barbara Davis) who said that they saw the killer physically dumping bullet shells onto the ground near the Davis residence on the corner were ALL telling a big fat lie about the murderer physically dumping shells out of his gun (which means, of course, that that gun was not an AUTOMATIC weapon--it was a REVOLVER--because an automatic would not need to have its spent cartridges physically removed from the chamber of the gun; but this little fact means zilch to James DiEugenio).

But even though Jim knows about all of the above rock-solid facts, he will continue to insist that an "automatic" gun killed J.D. Tippit.

BTW, Dale Myers fully explains Gerald Hill's erroneous remark about "automatic shells" being found at the Tippit murder scene. See Myers' 1998 book "With Malice" for the complete (and logical) story on that topic.

5.) "Prove Oswald ever purchased ammo--remember the fast frisk that came up with nothing?" --- As mentioned earlier, this item here makes it sound like Jim believes the pistol bullets were planted in Oswald's pocket by evil conspirators. But that idea is just plain weird.

The police already had Oswald's gun, plus the SIX LIVE ROUNDS that were loaded into the chamber of that gun. But they still had a desire to frame him SOME MORE by placing another five bullets in his pocket?? That's silly beyond belief.

And this idea that conspiracy theorists routinely raise about Oswald never having bought any bullets to put into his Mannlicher-Carcano C2766 rifle is just another in a never-ending series of stupid topics raised by the rabid CTers of the world.

Despite Delusional DiEugenio's paper-thin arguments to the contrary, Lee Harvey Oswald unquestionably purchased Carcano Rifle #C2766 from Klein's Sporting Goods in March of 1963.

And since we know that Oswald/"Hidell" definitely purchased that rifle from Klein's, then it stands to reason that Oswald would have seen to it that he had a supply of bullets to put into that Carcano rifle after purchasing it (even though he didn't buy the bullets from Klein's).

And all reasonable and sensible people also know that Oswald DID, indeed, obviously obtain some bullets to put into his Carcano carbine rifle in the year 1963, because Oswald himself fired bullets from that very gun at President Kennedy on November 22nd of that year.

Plus, we also know (based on the sum total of evidence that says it's true) that Oswald also fired one bullet from that same rifle at retired General Edwin A. Walker on the 10th of April of that same year, 1963.

As for Jim's two unnumbered items: the wallet issue and the lack of any Oswald prints on Tippit's police car:

As discussed at length previously, the wallet that may have been found on the ground on Tenth Street on 11/22/63 almost certainly did NOT belong to Lee Harvey Oswald and it also almost certainly did NOT contain any reference to Oswald either.

Because if it had been connected in ANY way to the person who was charged with committing Tippit's murder, there would be some mention of that wallet SOMEWHERE in the official police record of the case. But there isn't. Hence, it couldn't possibly be a wallet that was "connected" in some way to Oswald. That's only common sense.

Plus, I don't think it's been proven that ANY wallet was "found" on the ground at that murder scene; the wallet could be ANYBODY'S for all we know.

And I have no idea why Jim DiEugenio thinks that Oswald's prints would have necessarily had to be anywhere on Tippit's car. His fingerprints weren't on the car because it's very likely he never touched Tippit's car with his fingers or hands. Simple as that.

And as for some unidentified prints being lifted from Tippit's car door or right front fender (or possibly both) -- So what? What does that prove?

Don't tell me that you think it would have been impossible for the patrol car of a Dallas city policeman to have been touched by someone prior to the time Tippit arrived at Tenth and Patton on November 22nd?

In other words -- What makes you think any unidentified prints on Tippit's car HAD to have been left there by Tippit's murderer? Couldn't some NON-MURDERER have touched that car earlier that day?

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Dean Hagerman]

And even WITHOUT the two "Poe" shells, Oswald's guilt can be conclusively established

Oh really?!

Hey DVP was Poe lying when he said he marked the shells?

If he is not lying can you please tell me where those shells are today?

Or you can just post a picture of the Poe marked shells

Take your time Dave, I wont rush you

[David Von Pein]

So we are to believe you missed it a total of three times?

Yes, I missed it all of those times.

BTW, I don't monitor every single thread here at Edu. Forum. Not even close to it, in fact. The crappy Z-Film alteration threads are almost always ignored by me. And almost all threads with Fetzer in them.

I might briefly skim some of those threads upon occasion, but as a general rule, I don't.

Go find it yourself. I don't want to run around for you anymore.

Okay. Whatever.

I'm not going to look for it though. I really don't care about it one way or the other. I know those bullets weren't recovered amongst Oswald's possessions. I was merely trying to clear up a misunderstanding.

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein