Many dont believe in GOVT false flag...

[Steven Gaal]

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-218166-turkeys-churches-synagogues-marked-in-red-in-sledgehammer-plan.html

ARE YOU NON BELIEVERS IN FLASE FLAG REALLY VERY BRIGHT ??? only if you close your eyes and heart you wont see the obvious........the obvious.....

[Len Colby]

I have not seen any studies relating directly to intelligence but Zogby opinion polls sponsored by truthers have consistently shown an inverse relationship between educational level and support for the truther position. This has already been discussed here, do a forum search for posts I’ve made with the keywords educational level.

I’ll respond the rest when and if I find the time.

[Steven Gaal]

Long time no hear (Aug 7 was a number of days ago and you said you would get back when you find the time) on false flag. Len my friend ,GOVERMENTS (examples:Turkey,Italy,Egypt,Pakistan, and even European Parliament !!!!! ) NOT,NOT JUST -conspiracy posters- believe in FLASE FLAG operations.

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Operation Gladio is undisputed historical fact. Gladio was part of a post-World War II program set up by the CIA and NATO supposedly to thwart future Soviet/communist invasions or influence in Italy and Western Europe. In fact, it became a state-sponsored right-wing terrorist network, involved in false flag operations and the subversion of democracy.

The existence of Gladio was confirmed and admitted by the Italian government in 1990, after a judge, Felice Casson, discovered the network in the course of his investigations into right-wing terrorism. Italian prime minister Giulio Andreotti admitted Gladio’s existence but tried to minimize its significance.

The main function of the Gladio-style groups, in the absence of Soviet invasion, seems to have been to discredit left-wing groups and politicians through the use of “the strategy of tension,” including false-flag terrorism. The strategy of tension is a concept for control and manipulation of public opinion through the use of fear, propaganda, agents provacateurs, terrorism, etc. The aim was to instill fear into the populace while framing communist and left-wing political opponents for terrorist atrocities.

ResourcesLinks

1.Gladio Wikipedia

2.Detailed Article from Statewatch

3.Interview with Gladio Researcher Daniele Ganser Le Monde Diplomatique

4.Secret Warfare: Gladio by Daniele Ganser

5.Global Research Article on Gladio by Daniele Ganser

6.Vincenzo Vinciguerra Gladio Terrorist

7.Sword Play by Chris Floyd

8.Strategy of Tension Wikipedia

9.America.gov Response to Gladio

Books

Nato’s Secret Armies by Daniele Ganser, 2004 or read online at Google Books

Videos

■BBC’s Timewatch: Gladio 3 Parts on Google VIdeo

Prev Next image 1 of 3 Gladio and its “stay-behind” networks may be one of the most historically “accepted” or “confirmed” examples of false-flag terrorism. The documentation, the resolutions, confessions, and convictions all confirm that Gladio is much more than the media or government would have you believe—a mere “conspiracy theory.” See the State Department’s special site dedicated to dismissing “conspiracy theories,” including their page on Gladio.

Truth movers should take advantage of Gladio and the stay-behind networks as a confirmed precedent of the US and western governments participating in ruthless terrorist attacks against their own people in order instill fear, control the population, and frame left-wing political opponents. People who believe that such things do not or cannot happen should be forcefully made aware of such examples as Operation Gladio.

Evidence

■The August 2, 1980 bombing of the Bologna train station which killed 85 people, is widely recognized as a Gladio operation. While it was initially blamed on the communist “Red Brigades,” eventually, right-wing and fascists elements were discoverd to be the culprits. Two Italian secret service agents and Licio Gelli, the head of the infamous P2 Masonic lodge, were convicted in connection to the bombing. 1

■“The makings of the bomb… came from an arsenal used by Gladio… according to a parliamentary commission on terrorism… The suggested link with the Bologna massacre is potentially the most serious of all the accusations levelled against Gladio, and comes just two days after the Italian Prime Minister, Giulio Andreotti, cleared Gladio’s name in a speech to parliament, saying that the secret army did not drift from its formal Nato military brief” The Guardian January 16, 1991 1

■1969: “In Italy, the Piazza Fontana massacre in Milan kills 16 and injures and maims 80 [….] during a trial of rightwing extremists General Giandelio Maletti, former head of Italian counterintelligence, alleges that the massacre had been carried out by the Italian stay-behind army and rightwing terrorists on the orders of the US secret service CIA in order to discredit Italian Communists.” 10

■1985: “In Belgium, a secret army attacks and shoots shoppers in supermarkets randomly in the Brabant county killing 28 and leaving many wounded. Investigations link the terror to a conspiracy among the Belgian stay-behind SDRA8, the Belgian Gendarmerie SDRA6, the Belgian right-wing group WNP and the Pentagon secret service DIA.” 10

■According to Vincenzo Vinciguerra, a far-right terrorist linked to Gladio and currently serving a life-sentence for the car bomb murder of 3 policement, “The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security. This is the political logic that lies behind all the massacres and the bombings which remain unpunished, because the state cannot convict itself or declare itself responsible for what happened.” 6

■Vinciguerra also made this statement to The Guardian, “The terrorist line was followed by camouflaged people, people belonging to the security apparatus, or those linked to the state apparatus through rapport or collaboration. I say that every single outrage that followed from 1969 fitted into a single, organised matrix… Avanguardia Nazionale, like Ordine Nuovo (the main right-wing terrorist group active during the 1970s), were being mobilised into the battle as part of an anti-communist strategy originating not with organisations deviant from the institutions of power, but from within the state itself, and specifically from within the ambit of the state’s relations within the Atlantic Alliance.” 1

■In 1990, the European Parliament passed a resolution condemning Gladio. The resolution requested full investigations and a total dismantlement of the paramilitary structures involved—neither of which have come to pass.

■Similar Gladio-like operations have been discovered across Europe, including France, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Norway, Germany, Switzerland…

### PLEASE SEE LINK BELOW ###############

http://www.truthmove.org/content/operation-gladio/

Edited September 21, 2010 by Steven Gaal

[Steven Gaal]

Long time no hear (Aug 7 was a number of days ago and you said you would get back when you find the time) on false flag. Len my friend ,GOVERMENTS (examples:Turkey,Italy,Egypt,Pakistan, and even European Parliament !!!!! ) NOT,NOT JUST -conspiracy posters- believe in FLASE FLAG operations.

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LEN, LONGER TIME NO HEAR RE: TURKEY FALSE FLAG (BTW the people of Turkey seems to support the False flag idea since they just elected a goverment that supports the data (FALSE FLAG) in the first

post in this thread = == hay Len talk to the majority of Turkish voters) Oh yes, re below links= just like you Blackwaters HDQ moved out /they are now expats.

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http://redactednews.blogspot.com/2010/09/blackwaterxe-terrorist-cells-conducting.html

actually related because of this lawsuit a fall guy or false nation will be "now" blamed IMHO

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/30/lawsuit-challenges-govts-right-to-assassinate-us-citizens/

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/141016.html

Edited September 21, 2010 by Steven Gaal

[Len Colby]

Sorry Steve but replying to this nonsense is pretty low on my priorities list

1] Yes false flag attacks have occurred but just because that is so doesn’t mean all terrorist attacks are false flags, just as some car accidents/thefts are for insurance fraud but most aren’t.

2] It is not even clear there really was a coup attempt, that might have been a false flag itself. Apparently all or most of the evidence came from government. The government’s win in a recent referendum is irrelevant, you suspect the Bush administration was responsible for 9/11 but the GOP had a big win in 2002.

A Turkish member of the forum said the following about the “plot”:

“The thing is no one in Turkey is sure about the said coup organization and its objectives. As you noted, some say

it's a group that was planning to overthrow the government, and some say it's a conspiracy designed by the government to silence its opponents.”

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13584

Most western media outlets and even some Turkish ones put the word coup in quotes or preceded it with terms like “alleged” or “suspected” when reporting the incident.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8531486.stm

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-220638-100-new-plan-saving-coup-generals-from-retirement-with-time-off.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0224/Turkey-coup-plot-12-officers-charged-as-government-takes-on-military

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2012394490_apeuturkeycoupplot.html

3] According to your own source “Sledgehammer documents included a 20-page file that showed sketches of 169 churches and synagogues in Turkey.” Of those 169 two synagogues were attacked, two other targets apparently not in the file “the British Consulate General and an HSBC bank” were also attacked. Thus even if the file is legitimate there is no indication this was anything more that chance. This might be helpful to you:

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/texsharp.html

As for your post about Gladio, it happened but the full extent of how many false flags it carried out are unclear, the principle source your page cited was Wikipedia.

As for the stuff from Wayne Madsen sorry I don’t find him credible all his stories come from supposedly anonymous sources and can’t be confirmed.

[Len Colby]

Steve (or other truthers) I was hoping you would respond to the following:

I have not seen any studies relating directly to intelligence but Zogby opinion polls sponsored by truthers have consistently shown an inverse relationship between educational level and support for the truther position. This has already been discussed here, do a forum search for posts I’ve made with the keywords educational level.

[Len Colby]

Gee Steve the way you kept bugging me to respond I thought you were eager to discuss this sillyness.

[Steven Gaal]

Gee Steve the way you kept bugging me to respond I thought you were eager to discuss this sillyness.

BUT to quote Colby just before in this thread "Sorry Steve but replying to this nonsense is pretty low on my priorities list"

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These two posts when taken together constitute a flame IMHO ,however,the moderators wont sanction you. I have more information on Global Conection (company reported on internet you work for),yet I dont post it, for it would create suspicion that said company has more than just a regular business. BTW you seemed to have done 'some' research on the 'nonsense' of the Turkish false flag.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^TO ANSWER YOUR POST OF SEPT 21.Below

Most campaigns run on issues. The DEM party officially did not run a Bush/911 campaign,but mostly ran on how patriotic they were in supporting said war on terror (RUN BY BUSH). They should have called themselves the 'me too' party. Actually part of the Turkish political campaign was to reform the judiciary for the expressed purpose to pursue the case against the coup Generals. Thus the 2002 election analogy you used does not apply.

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As to Wayne Madsen ,I agree he cant be confirmed. I do believe he does have inside sources

,but said sources have a spin and/or axes to grind. Case in point re Madsen: PRE-911, a NSA lady would not give the CIA certain transcripts of Al-Qaeda intercepts,but only unusable summarizes. Madsen had her having a fight at NSA Post-911 and she was demoted by transfer to England. I think ,however, this was a PROmotion. Working with the British NSA will help her career in the NSA agency, Said spin,to this lady's story, puts 'error' instead of 911-complicity in the reason for said transfer.

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Mr.Colby predictably comes to the defense of the Intel sevices. I use the term predictably after reading 300 plus of his postings. Mass murder and crime is demonstrated in OPERATION GLADIO. Mr. Colby IMHO mollifies mass murder in the case of GLADIO. I may email Mr. Simkin to post info he has on GLADIO.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now as to you decrying my use of Wkipedia, well that is equvalent to the use of the "N" word in the posting/blog world. To Mr. Colby -Steve used the N word,'Wikipedia'. The Devil is always in the details. There is Wikipedia and then there is Wikipedia. The Wkipedia article is not great,but isnt all bad IMHO,and is extensively footnoted. GLADIO is a important issue and not to be dismissed and minimized as Mr. Colby tries to persuade. I recall GLADIO is the sole subject of 2 books and mentioned in over 20 others. GLADIO was also the subject of a 3 part BBC documentary (3 part !!!). Does Mr. Colby call the BBC coinspiracy people ??? Now THAT !! would be nonsense,IMHO.

see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio and BBC video link http://pubrecord.org/commentary/7333/gladio-conspiracy-demands-attention/

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I am not trying to flame,but I will have to leave the forum for at least 9 months. I have

more important issues to take care of in my life. THANKS TO ALL, LORD CHRIST IS THE LOVING KING MANKIND YEARNS FOR> sg

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Edited September 29, 2010 by Steven Gaal

[Len Colby]

I have no idea what points your were trying to make in most of your post above, the evidence that the Turkish bombings were false flags is weak because not only is the source of the documents suspect but 2 of the 4 targets were on a supposed list of 169 potential targets. I imagine that if some due up a long list of potential targets in the US the WTC and Pentagon would have been on them.

As for Gladio I acknowledged it took place. And Madsen is a nutcase he thinks even Obama's conception was part of a CIA plot.