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"Was 9/11 an 'Inside Job'?"


Guest James H. Fetzer

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Guest James H. Fetzer

I'd just as soon you not hijack the thread, Len. Your earlier post was fine. I have written to John Lear about this and look forward to his response. There are many kinds of "false flag" ops, where Gordon Duff appears to be completely justified in suggesting this might be one. If I thought that you were an honest broker, I might be more sympathetic to your intrusion, but I know it's all in a day's work for you. Here's another crucial issue:

One other problem is that Al Qaeda doesn’t exist, never has.

We simply made it up. There has never been such an organization, there has never been an organized world terrorist conspiracy of any kind. There have never been terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. Has anyone ever seen a photo of one? Of course not. In our nearly ten years scouring every square foot of Afghanistan, we have never found any of those “monkey bar” things we seeing the the films put on the internet. Journalists joke about these films along with the phony bin Laden videos. We call the Israeli group that puts them out “Bin Laden Studios.”

Arabs with box cutters had nothing to do with 9/11. This is a cover story. It was all made up. There is no proof of their involvement and, quite to the contrary, six of the supposed dead terrorists are alive and well and screaming for press interviews. 9/11 had nothing to do with terrorism, nothing to do with Arabs and everything to do with money. Follow the money.

Why is this game being played, attacks in London and Madrid, New York and Detroit now, why the games? The answer is simple. The Caspian basin has trillions of dollars in gas and oil, controlled by new and highly corrupt countries whose governments turned to Israel years ago for technical support. With Russia, the Gulf States and Nigeria controlling most of the world’s oil supply and money supplies almost exhausted, every loose cent that can be stolen already stashed away, looted by the banksters with the help of the Rothschilds and the Federal Reserve, this is the last great prize.

I offered the article, which I suppose makes it "fair game", but let's see if we can stay on the "ground effect" issue. Other indications that no Boeing 757 hit the building include that the lawn was perfectly smooth, unblemished, and bereft of any debris EVEN AFTER THE FIRE TRUCKS HAD EXTINGUISHED THE FIRES, there was no massive pile of aluminum debris from a 100-ton airliner--no wings, no tail, no bodies, no seats, no luggage, and no engines--and the lawn (again) showed no signs of having been affected by wind/wing turbulance or the exhaust of the engines, which should have disrupted its smooth surface. None of that occurred. Instead, debris starts showing up LATER, which I suspect was dropped from the C-130 that was circling the building. Let's stay on topic "What Didn't Happen at the Pentagon", and see what we can sort out, if you don't mind. Relevant photos are available at "What Didn't Happen at the Pentagon", http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/01/what-didnt-happen-at-pentagon.html , to stay on track.

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Why is this game being played, attacks in London and Madrid, New York and Detroit now, why the games?

It's the unleashing of "iregular warfare" against nation states.

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I'd just as soon you not hijack the thread, Len. Your earlier post was fine. I have written to John Lear about this and look forward to his response. There are many kinds of "false flag" ops, where Gordon Duff appears to be completely justified in suggesting this might be one. If I thought that you were an honest broker, I might be more sympathetic to your intrusion, but I know it's all in a day's work for you. Here's another crucial issue:

One other problem is that Al Qaeda doesn’t exist, never has.

I’m not hijacking the thread you are the one who posted this xxxxe on it. Funny how you tell others they have to document their claims yet are so impressed by bigots who fail to document theirs. I doubt it will be long till you are backing Holocaust denial.

Duff offers no documentation for his claims, makess false ones like say OBL was a CIA oerative and I've shown that is a xxxx why should anyone take him seriously?

I offered the article, which I suppose makes it "fair game", but let's see if we can stay on the "ground effect" issue.

As for your experts unless I’ve missed it Nila Sagadevan has never gone beyond simply claiming that “it is physically impossible to fly a 200,000-lb airliner 20 feet above the ground at 400 MPH.” Using the cop out that “A discussion on ground effect energy, vortex compression, downwash reaction, wake turbulence, and jetblast effects are beyond the scope of this article” contrast that with the detailed analysis offered by Jeff Scott. As to their qualifications part of Scott’s are posted on his website a Google search turned up this

Jeffrey A. Scott…is a master’s candidate in AAE [Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering University of Illinois]…From 1997–98, he was an undergraduate research assistant for Professor Wayne Solomon and Professor Michael Selig, testing a hybrid rocket engine and analyzing drag characteristics of low-speed airfoils. He held an internship position at the NASA Langley Research Center during the summer of 1997.

Scott cited a 2nd engineer and 2 pilots.

By contrast I have not been able to verify Sagadevan’s claim to be an aeronautical engineer. He also claims to be a pilot but is not listed in the FAA database.

Lear has offered nothing but his supposed expertise in support of his claims and he is a nut he believes there’s life on the moon and dismisses the two most important physicists off all time

“Using extensive recent data, GRAVITATIONAL FORCE OF THE SUN presents the correct interpretation of Kepler’s third law.

Pari Spolter has successfully attacked and destroyed Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation along with the gravitational constant and thrown Einstein and his pseudoscientific hypothetical equations on the junk heap of philosophic”.

“He is recently known for his writing on 911, life on moon and the errors in Newton's second law and Einstein's General and Special Theories which Johncalls total nonsense.”

• “In his speeches, Lear says there are 80 different species of aliens visiting earth.

• Lear is generally pessimistic about the future, suggesting that the alien presence is sinister and that there is little chance that the government will reveal its UFO knowledge.

• Lear appears to have backed off from the his earlier "aliens are eating humans at Area 51" claims and now sticks fairly close to the Lazar gospel. However, his Lazar stories tend to include more personal interpretation than Lazar's own telling.”

Sources

Sagadevan article http://usahitman.com/?p=20123

UI newsletter http://wwwdev.ae.illinois.edu/alumni/newsletter/1999/WayToFuture_1999_Summer.complete.pdf

FAA database https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/default.aspx

Lear review of Spolter book http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/08PDF_Files/Gravitational_Force_of_the_Sun_Book_Report_Rev_7.htm

Page about Lear http://www.justenergyradio.com/archive-pages/jlear.htm

Page about Lear 2 http://www.ufomind.com/area51/people/lear/

Other indications that no Boeing 757 hit the building include that the lawn was perfectly smooth, unblemished, and bereft of any debris EVEN AFTER THE FIRE TRUCKS HAD EXTINGUISHED THE FIRES, there was no massive pile of aluminum debris from a 100-ton airliner--no wings, no tail, no bodies, no seats, no luggage, and no engines--and the lawn (again) showed no signs of having been affected by wind/wing turbulance or the exhaust of the engines, which should have disrupted its smooth surface. None of that occurred. Instead, debris starts showing up LATER, which I suspect was dropped from the C-130 that was circling the building. Let's stay on topic "What Didn't Happen at the Pentagon", and see what we can sort out, if you don't mind. Relevant photos are available at "What Didn't Happen at the Pentagon", http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/01/what-didnt-happen-at-pentagon.html , to stay on track.

This idiotic claims have already been debated here and show to be false

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/nodebris.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-myths-pentagon

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Nila, an airline pilot and aeronautical engineer, who has retired from

9/11 research (probably because he was tired of being hassled by the

likes of Len Colby, who has mastered the arts of the ad hominem attack,

the straw man, and the special pleading fallacies), has sent me a copy

of a letter he wrote to a friend that leaves no doubt about his views,

which refute Colby's characterization of how far he has been willing to

go. Moreover, anyone who wants to see photographic proof that Colby is

off his nut about the Pentagon should take a look at "What Didn't Happen

at the Pentagon", http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/01/what-didnt-happen-at-pentagon.html Sometimes I

have the feeling they left the door open at the asylum and he walked out.

________________________________________

It would be useful for your readers to understand that even a thousand

"compelling" references and all manner of theoretical proof will not --

cannot -- convince minds mired in denial. The only "proof" that's likely to

sway the minds of the unwashed would be an empirical flight demonstration of

the point I espouse:

It is aerodynamically impossible to fly an airplane -- ANY airplane -- at an

altitude above ground level (AGL) of less than one half its wingspan AT FULL

THROTTLE and IN LEVEL FLIGHT over a distance of at least one half mile.

Period.

All the formulae in aerodynamics, nor abstruse theoretical discussions are

ever going to "prove" this simple fact to the satisfaction of hardened

skeptics. What will convince them, however, is an actual flight

demonstration via an aircraft attempting this maneuver, say over a runway

(preferably a derelict one, or one at an some remote uncontrolled airport,

since the FAA wouldn't take too kindly to this).

What happens is that the airplane begins to ride a self-generated "cushion"

of air that it simply cannot be "compressed" any further by the airplane

-- even with full forward stick. In this mode, an airplane behaves in a

manner similar to a hovercraft operating at full-power hover -- trying to

physically "push" the craft down to the ground only causes it to resist.

This is a highly energized mass of air that is very difficult to compress.

In the case of an airplane, if the pilot attempts to continue to push the

stick forward while in this mode, the airplane will begin to "rock" its

wings in a desperate effort to restore some semblance of equilibrium in this

"unusual" domain -- and it will actually begin to CLIMB. This is something

that can be proved quite easily by any pilot of any aircraft.

I would urge you to watch what is arguably the best 9/11 video to date, one

that illustrates this point brilliantly: "Zero: An Investigation Into 9/11".

It's an excellent European production, available here:

<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2296490368603788739#>

It contains a section that covers this subject in great detail, including

an absolutely inarguable computer simulation of the aerodynamic phenomenon

I describe. The aerodynamics involved are narrated and clearly explained by

a senior Al Italia captain. One look at this video would be more convincing

than a hundred theories on aerodynamics.

May I suggest that you extend an open challenge to any pilot in the world --

a Miramar Top Gun, an Edwards Test jock, it doesn't matter -- to prove that

he/she can accomplish this maneuver in any aircraft with a relatively low

wing loading. NB: I add this caveat re wing loading for a reason: fighter

aircraft, especially those designed for low-level ground strafing, have very

short wingspans, and thus very high wing loadings (weight/wing area). These

types can, and do, appear to approach the ground quite closely (half of a

short wingspan is very short indeed!). Regardless, I would still challenge

any fighter jock to fly his fighter at full throttle less than half-wingspan

AGL.

Even on an extremely stub-winged fighter of yore like the old F-104G

Starfighter, which has a wingspan of less than 22 feet, this would mean a

minimum attainable sustained full-throttle altitude AGL of 11 feet. In

actuality, I seriously doubt even an F-104G would get any closer than about

15 feet in full afterburner in a flat trajectory in a real-life test. The

ubiquitous little Cessna 150 is the de facto standard in basic flight

instruction virtually worldwide, and readily available at any small

airfield. It has wingspan of 33 feet. I challenge any flight instructor in

the world to get this airplane any closer than, say, 15 feet above the deck

at full throttle in level flight.

And a Boeing 757? In a live scenario, I doubt even a Boeing test pilot could

push it below about 70-80 feet at 400 knots straight-and-level -- that's

higher than the ROOF of the Pentagon.

The Internet is rife with photos of airliners LANDING at various airports,

with the craft's close proximity to the ground being trumpeted as "proof"

that it can be done. Of course it can done -- it's called a landing.

____________________________________________________________

Re the empirical proof: You might add that the altitude AGL should be recorded

(estimated) by a ground-based observer in very close proximity to the flyby;

the craft’s altimeter cannot possibly record an ‘altitude’ this low.

In the case of a little trainer, a person standing on the ground, beside the

runway, should be able to eyeball the flyby with reasonable accuracy (although

I’d maintain a healthy distance if it were a high-speed jet doing the buzzing,

lest the slipstream blow the poor sod into the next county!).

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No, it didn't disappear Jack. It's on another thread. Yet another good reason to combine the thread: help keep track for those who get easily confused.

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Nila, an airline pilot and aeronautical engineer, who has retired from 9/11 research (probably because he was tired of being hassled by the likes of Len Colby, who has mastered the arts of the ad hominem attack, the straw man, and the special pleading fallacies),

Hate to break it to you Professor Fetzer but pointing out that John Lear one of your supposed “experts” is in fact a raving lunatic who believes aliens eat earthlings and rejects the fundamentals of physics is NOT an “ad hominem attack" it is a clear indication he is not a reliable source concerning physics (or anything else}. As for you claim that I engage in “the straw man, and the special pleading fallacies” I have no idea what you are raving about I challenge you to cite examples.

...has sent me a copy of a letter he wrote to a friend that leaves no doubt about his views, which refute Colby's characterization of how far he has been willing to go.

Given your affinity for strawmen I should dub you Dorothy, I never said that Sagadevan’s views on the matter were not strong or that he had any doubts but rather that he ‘has never gone beyond simply claiming that “it is physically impossible to fly a 200,000-lb airliner 20 feet above the ground at 400 MPH.”’. Even in the newly posted letter he didn’t go beyond that thus it strengthened rather that rebutted my point.

Since you are in touch with him why don’t you ask him for an explanation as to why exactly he believes it impossible, after all Jeff Scott wrote a very detailed essay about why he thinks ground effect would not have been a problem. While you are at it you can ask him to document his claims to have been an “aeronautical engineer” and professional pilot. I’ve never seen the claim he was an “airline pilot” before, are you sure that’s not your addition? To be quite frank I think he simply lied about his qualifications because:

1] He is not listed in the FAA’s pilot database.

2] He claimed to have “degree in aeronautical engineering from the University of Edinburgh” but a} the school does not offer such a degree.

b} It has not offered one at least since they went online in 2OO2.

c} Google searches turned up no references to the university ever offering such a degree or anyone else claiming to have taught or studied the subject there.

3] He wrote, “The author, a pilot and aeronautical engineer, challenges any pilot in the world to do so in any large high-speed aircraft that has a relatively low wing-loading (such as a commercial jet). I.e., to fly the craft at 400 MPH, 20 feet above ground in a flat trajectory over a distance of one mile.” But this would not only be extremely dangerous but illegal. So either he does not know this, and any aeronautical engineer or pilot should, or he used a bit of misleading sophistry. The latter is not unlikely but the former fits with the above.

He also wrote “If a 757 were placed on the ground on its engine nacelles (I.e., gear retracted as in flight profile), its nose would be almost 20 [feet] above the ground!” except that if you look at a diagram of the plane they can see that the bottom of the nose would be only 6 feet above the ground. The Pentagon is 77.3 feet tall and has 5 floors for an average of 15.5 feet per floor. One would think that an aeronautical engineer or pilot should be able to figure out a simple aircraft diagram and do grade school math, so once again is he a poser or a sophist?

3view-757-200.gif

So my challenge to Fetzer is to produce any documentation indicating Sagadevan actually earned an engineering degree and pilots license and worked as an engineer and pilot. My guess is that the supposed pilot/engineer will make up excuses claiming to have lost all his documents.

References

1] FAA database https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/default.aspx

2] http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Flying-Without-Training13jun06.htm, http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=5115

2a} Current Uof E engineering dept page http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/undergraduate/Prospective/DegsAvail/index.shtml

2b} 2002 page http://web.archive.org/web/20020815145510/www.enginf.eng.ed.ac.uk/

2c} http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q="aeronautical+engineering"+"University+of+Edinburgh"+cv+OR+vitae&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q="aeronautical+engineering"+"University+of+Edinburgh"

3] http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=5115

http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=101

http://pentagon.afis.osd.mil/facts-zip.html

But let’s say I’m wrong and decades ago the University of Edinburgh did have an aeronautical engineering department and Sagadevan earned his pilots license in the UK but never transferred it to the US. Would he qualify as an expert? According to his bio on the site about his book*, “An aeronautical engineer-turned-pilot, Sagadevan left Scotland for America in 1972” thus if what he claims is true he briefly last worked as an aeronautical engineer / pilot 34 or more years before he wrote his essay. That’s compared to Scott who had been working as an aeronautical engineer for several years when he wrote his.

Best case scenario his expertise was based on decades old and decades out of date memories worst case scenario he made the whole thing up, my money’s on the latter

* http://web.archive.org/web/20060504021431/http://www.warpaintofthegods.com/wp/about.cfm

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Guest James H. Fetzer

John Lear is one of our nation's most distinguished pilots, who holds

some 17 world speed records and has earned virtually every certification

issued by the FAA. He and Nila agree, where John has gone farther in his

explanation of the relevant laws of aerodynamics. Here's a link to some

of his interviews and other statements, including especially an affidavit

that he submitted in litigation related to 9/11 in a New York City lawsuit:

Go to http://911scholars.ning.com and enter "John Lear affidavit":

Blog Post: "Was 9/11 an 'Inside Job'?" An introduction to the issues

(for another forum but suitable for reposting here)

Added by James H. Fetzer at 9:28am on August 24, 2010

Blog Post: John Lear's Affidavit in the Judy Wood lawsuit against NIST and its contractors

This affidavit was the subject of "The Real Deal" interview with John Lear today

Added by James H. Fetzer at 7:35pm on July 27, 2009

Blog Post: John Lear's Affidavit on the Non-Occurrence of Tower Hits on 9/11

Added by James H. Fetzer at 11:45am on October 6, 2009

Blog Post: Ken Bell: Some of the implications of "There were no commercial planes on 9/11"

Added by James H. Fetzer at 10:54am on October 7, 2009

Blog Post: THE "ENVELOPES" and AIR SPEED FOR 767s by John Lear

Added by James H. Fetzer at 10:45am on September 23, 2009

Blog Post: John Lear/Michael Morrissey/Rob Balsamo Exchange on Planes/No Planes on 9/11

Added by James H. Fetzer at 12:39pm on September 28, 2009

Blog Post: Interview with John Lear on "The Real Deal" posted on YouTube

Added by James H. Fetzer at 6:11pm on July 29, 2009

Here is his response to my inquiry about whether a Boeing 757 could

have flown at 500+ mph just skimming the ground en route to hitting

the Pentagon on the ground floor, where the hit point is featured here:

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/01/what-didnt-happen-at-pentagon.html which means that

the estimate of 6 feet from the ground works for me, but that is with

the engines on the ground, which should have been ripped apart by the

engines, their thrust, and wind/wing effect, yet the lawn is pristine.

Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:08:43 -0700 [08/26/2010 11:08:43 AM CDT]

From: "John Lear"

To: jfetzer@d.umn.edu

Cc: "Morgan Reynolds"

Subject: RE: Do I have this right?

Jim,

Do you remember the exact height the alleged nose

of the Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon? I need that number.

By the way induced drag does decrease with increased airspeed

But does not totally attenuate. Obviously. That's how airplanes fly.

Parasite draq increases with speed.

The Center of pressure on the wing moves aft with increasing airspeed

forcing the nose up. To balance this effect the horizontal tail is built

like an upside down wing. Instead of provided lift it forces the tail down.

To help it force the tail down it is provided with a trim switch which moves

the stabilizer up or down depending on the speed.

The faster you go the more down trim you need to keep the nose from going

up. At some point after Vmo you 'run out of trim' or there is no more trim.

The trim won't go any further so the airplane naturally start to climb.

No matter how strong you are at pushing the control column forward you

cannot get the nose to go down until you slow the airplane.

The reason they build airplanes like that is so that the faster they go they

will not pitch down and make matters worse trying to get the nose to come

back up.

That is why it is impossible for an airplane to exceed much faster than 400

kts if even that simply because you cannot force the nose down.

Dive tests under CFR Title 14 FAR Part 25.253 High Speed Characteristics

Demonstration (a)(3)".but there must be a push force at all speeds up to at

all speeds up to Vdf/Mdf, and there must be no sudden or excessive reduction

in elevator control force as Vdf/Mdf is reached."

That is why even superman couldn't make the airplane dive or exceed Vd (420

kts) or even that. There is not enough elevator trim authority or control to

keep the airplane from climbing.

If Egyptair actually achieved M .99 (and we can certainly not trust Boeing

on this for accurate figures) that means it slipped into an uncontrollable

dive. This could only have happened by pushing on the control column with

full force below Vmo and holding it there. In that case there would have

been no possible recovery because the slightest amount of back force on the

control column would have increased the G forces and ripped the controls

apart.

As far as the Pentagon Boeing 757 the same aerodynamic principals apply.

There is no possible way that the airplane could have achieved 500 mph, then

pulled out of a dive, then flown several hundred feet with the bottom of the

engine cowlings 12 to 14 inches from the ground:

1. The G factors at 500 mph would rip the controls surfaces off of the

airplane

2. The pilot would not have the strength or control command to keep the

airplane from climbing.

3. Hitting any light standard would have instantly set the wing on

fire.

I am not sure if I covered the answer you wanted but lease fell free to

email me again.

All the best,

John Lear

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John Lear is one of our nation's most distinguished pilots, who holds some 17 world speed records and has earned virtually every certification issued by the FAA. He and Nila agree, where John has gone farther in his explanation of the relevant laws of aerodynamics.

Describing Lear as a distinguished pilot, let alone “one of our nation's most distinguished pilots”, is a classic example of Fetzer vastly exaggerating his and his supporters’ qualifications.

Based on Lear’s own summery of his career he spent most of his time working for small cargo and charter companies some of which were based in countries like Egypt, Lebanon and Cambodia several of which were in the last years or months of their existence. His only employment by a regularly scheduled American (or other developed country) airline was with cut-rate American Trans Air for whom he flew out of production 707s until they fired him. For the last 18 – 22 of his career he only seems to have flown planes that had been discontinued 4 – 28 years earlier. This goes to his expertise regarding the capabilities of 757s and 767s, the only Boeings he mentioned flying 707s (and the related 720s) were introduced in the mid 50s, the 9/11 models were introduced in the early 80’s.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/index.html

That aside he seems to be totally nuts in 1983 he wrote:

During the late 60's or early 70's MJ-12 representing the U.S. Government made a deal with those creatures called EBE's (extra-terrestrial biological entities, named by Detley Bronk,origlnal MJ-12 member and 6th president of Johns Hopklns University) The 'deal' was that in exchange for 'technology' that they would provide to us we agreed to 'ignore' the abductions that were going on and suppress information on the cattle mutilations The EBE's assured MJ-12 that the abductions (usually lasting about 2 hours) were merely the ongoing monitoring of developing civilizations

In fact, the purposes for the abductions turned out to b-

(1) Insertion of 3 mm spherical device through the nasal cavity of the abductee into the brain. The device is used for the biological monitoring, tracking and control of the abductee. (2) Implementation of post hypnotic suggestion to carry out a specific activity during a specific tame period, the actuation of which wall occur within the next 2 to 5 years

(3) Termination of some people so that they could function as living sources for biological material and substances

(4) Termination of individuals who represent a threat to the continuation of their activity.

(5) Effect genetic engineering experiments.

(6) Impregnation of human females and early termination of pregnancies to procure the crossbred infant.

http://www.ufomind.com/area51/people/lear/aliens_at_51.html

Regarding his expertise concerning physics he rejects the discoveries of Newton and Einstein.

Sagadevan seems to be a fraudster who was neither a pilot nor an aeronautical engineer or at best he stopped exercising those professions in the early 70’s though he insinuated his experience was more recent.

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His only employment by a regularly scheduled American (or other developed country) airline was with cut-rate American Trans Air for whom he flew out of production 707s until they fired him. For the last 18 – 22 of his career he only seems to have flown planes that had been discontinued 4 – 28 years earlier. This goes to his expertise regarding the capabilities of 757s and 767s, the only Boeings he mentioned flying 707s (and the related 720s) were introduced in the mid 50s, the 9/11 models were introduced in the early 80’s.

I made a slight error. Lear said the following of his days at ATA:

"I went went to work for American Trans Air flying 707’s. I wrote their international navigation manual as MNPS for North Atlantic operations was just being implemented and became the first FAA designated check airman for MNPS navigation. ATA then added 727’s and then Lockheed L-1011’s. For a very brief time I was qualified as captain in all 3. After getting fired from ATA in July of 1989..."

The L1011 ceased production in 1983 and the last passenger 727 was delivered the same year. The 727 was introduced in the early 60’s, though newer than the 707 it was still decades older than the 9/11 hijack models.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/727family/timeline.html

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Here is a summary of John Lear's qualifications from http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread274014/pg1 . I anticipate that Len will scour what he has said to find SOMETHING he can quote out of context in spite of OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE to the contrary. Notice how infrequently Len actually has an argument about the issues and how often he attacks the messenger! I think the proportion of his effort devoted to serious argument versus devoted to ad hominem smears is extremely telling. Len seems to have his own political agenda.

Originally posted by Cobra1982

Would you care to share your credentials with ATS?

By all means. Here is the short version. For my FAA certificates check with faa.gov.

One of the anguishes of advancing age is losing old friends. The upside of that, though, is that I get to tell the story my way.

I learned to fly at Clover Field in Santa Monica when I was 14. However before I got to get in an actual airplane Dad made me take 40 hours of Link with Charlie Gress. I can’t remember what I did yesterday but I guarantee you I could still shoot a 90 degree, Fade-out or Parallel radio range orientation.

When I turned 16 I had endorsements on my student license for an Aero Commander 680E and Cessna 310.

I got my private at 17 and instrument rating shortly thereafter. The Lockheed 18 Lodestar was my first type rating at age 18. I went to work for my father and brother flying copilot on a twin beech out of Geneva Switzerland after I got out of high school. Dad was over there trying to peddle radios to the European airlines. However just after I turned 18 and got my Commercial I was showing off my aerobatic talents in a Bucker Jungmann to my friends at a Swiss boarding school I had attended. I managed to start a 3 turn spin from too low an altitude and crashed. I shattered both heels and ankles and broke both legs in 3 places. I crushed my neck, broke both sides of my jaw and lost all of my front teeth. I managed to get gangrene in one of the open wounds in my ankles and was shipped from Switzerland to the Lovelace Clinic in Albuquerque where Randy Lovelace made me well.

When I could walk again I worked selling pots and pans door to door in Santa Monica. In late 1962 Dad had moved from Switzerland to Wichita to build the Lear Jet and I went to Wichita to be work in Public relations until November of 1963 about 2 months after the first flight when I moved to Miami and took over editing an aviation newspaper called Aero News. I moved the newspaper to El Segundo in California and ran it until it failed.

I then got a job flight instructing at Progressive Air Service in Hawthorne, California. From there I went to Norman Larson Beech in Van Nuys flight instructing in Aircoupes. In the spring of 1965 I was invited by my Dad back to Wichita to get type rated in the model 23 Learjet. I then went to work for the executive aircraft division of Flying Tigers in Burbank who had secured a dealership for the Lear. In November of 1965 my boss Paul Kelly crashed number 63 into the mountains at Palm Springs killing everybody on board including Bob Prescotts 13 years old son and 4 of the major investors in Tigers. Tigers formed a subsidiary, Airjet Charters and I was president. My job was to fly charter and sell the Learjets. Or rather try to sell them. It turns out that I never managed to sell one Learjet in my entire life.

In March of 1966 2 lear factory pilots Hank Beaird, Rick King and myself set 17 world speed records including speed around the round the world, 65 hours and 38 minutes in the first Lear Jet 24. Shortly after that flight I got canned from Tigers and moved to Vegas and started the first 3rd level airline in Nevada, Ambassador Airlines. We operated an Aero Commander and Cherokee 6 on 5 stops from Las Vegas to LAX. This was about the time Hughes moved to Las Vegas and I was doing some consulting work for Bob and Peter Maheu. The money man behind Ambassador was Jack Cleveland who I introduced to John Myers in the Hughes organization. Cleveland and Myers tried to peddle the 135 certificate to Hughes without success. I went back to Van Nuys and was flying Lear charter part time for Al Paulson and Clay Lacy at California Airmotive, the Learjet distributor.

That summer I started a business called Aerospace Flight Research in Van Nuys were I rented aircraft to Teledyne to flight test their Inertial Guidance Systems. We had a B-26, Super Pinto and Twin Beech. I think we lasted about 4 months.

I then went to work for World Aviation Services in Ft. Lauderdale ferrying the Cessna O2 FAC airplane from Wichita, fresh of the assembly line to Nha Trang in Viet Nam with fellow QB Bill Werstlein. We were under the 4440th ADG Langley VA. and hooked up with a lot of other military pilots ferrying all manner and types of aircraft. Our route was Wichita to Hamilton, Hickam, Midway, Wake, Guam, Clark and then in country. The longest leg was Hamilton to Hickam an average of 16 hours, no autopilot, no copilot, and one ADF. We also had 3 piddle packs. Arriving in Nha Trang we would hitch a ride to Saigon and spend 3 days under technical house arrest, each trip, pay a fine for entering the country illegally, that is being civilians and not coming through a port of entry, catch an airline up to Hong Kong for a little R and R and straight back to Wichita for another airplane. I flew this contract for 4 years.

My fondest memories of these flights was rolling into Drifters Reef at Wake Island, sipping vodka tonics and playing xxxx’s dice all night long.

During some off time in 1968 I attempted to ferry a Cessna 320 from Oakland to Australia with the first stop in Honolulu. About 2 hours out from Oakland I lost the right engine and had no provisions for dumping fuel. I went down into ground effect (T effect for you purists) and for 3 hours and 21 minutes flew on one engine about 25 feet above the waves and made it into Hamilton AFB after flying under the Golden Gate and Richmond bridges. An old friend Nick Conte, was officer of the day and gave me the royal treatment. Why did I go into Hamilton instead of Oakland? I knew exactly where the O club was for some much needed refreshment.

In September of 1968 between 0-2 deliveries I raced a Douglas B-26 Invader in the Reno Air Races. It was the largest airplane ever raced at Reno, and I placed 5th in the Bronze passing one Mustang. It was reported to me after the race by XB-70 project pilot Col. Ted Sturmthal that when I passed the P-51, 3 fighter pilots from Nellis committed suicide off the back of the grandstands.

In the summer of 1970 I helped Darryl Greenamyer and Adam Robbins put on the California 1000 air race in Mojave California. That’s the one where Clay Lacy raced the DC-7. I flew a B-26 with Wally McDonald. I then started flying charter in an Aero Commander and Beech Queen Air for Aero Council a charter service out of Burbank. They went belly up about 3 months later and I went up to Reno to work for my Dad as safety pilot on his Lear model 25. After my Dad fired me I was personally escorted to the Nevada/California border by an ex-Los Angeles police detective who worked for Dad and did the muscle work. I went back down to Van Nuys and was Chief Pilot for Lacy Aviation and was one of the first pilot proficiency examiners for the Lear Jet.

In the summer of 1973 I moved to Phnom Penh, Cambodia as Chief Pilot and Director of Operations for Tri Nine Airlines which flew routes throughout Cambodia for Khmer Akas Air. I flew a Convair 440 an average of 130 hours a month. We had unlimited quantities of 115/145 fuel and ADI and were able to use full CB-17 power (which was 62” for any of you R-2800 aficionados). In November of 1973 I moved to Vientianne, Laos and flew C-46’s and Twin Otters for Continental Air Services Inc. delivering guns and ammo to the Gen. Vang Pao and his CIA supported troops. We got shot down one day and when I say we, Dave Kouba, fellow QB, was the captain. We were flying a twin otter and got the right engine shot out. Actually the small arms fire had hit the fuel line in the right strut and fuel was streaming out back around the tail and being sucked into the large cargo opening in the left side of the airplane and filling the cockpit with a fine mist of jet fuel. I held the mike in my hands, “Should I call Cricket and possibly blow us up or...?” (Some of you may remember Cricket…...”This is Cricket on guard with an air strike warning to all aircraft”.) But Davy found us a friendly dirt strip and we were back in the air the next day.

Sometimes the 14 hour days were spent dropping rice to the refugees, sometimes we flew endless trips of fruits and vegetables. But we were always tuned to 119.3 which was the universal bull# frequency. And the jokes flowed all day long.

When the war came to an end in 1973 I moved back to Van Nuys and started flying Lears for Lacy again until October when I went up to Seattle and sat in on a Boeing 707 ground school for Air Club International on spec. 3 weeks later I ended up in the left seat of the 707 with a total of 8 hours in type. Air Club begat Aero America, which was a full-fledged 121 operation and we flew junkets out of Vegas for the Tropicana and Thunderbird Hotels.

I left Aero, having not been fired, and in the summer of 1975 I was Director of Ops for Ambassador Airlines 2 flying 707 junkets also out of Vegas. After that airline collapsed I moved to Beirut, Lebanon in September of 1975 and flew 707’s for 2 years for Trans Mediterranean Airways a Lebanese cargo carrier. It was a very interesting job in that they had 65 stations around the world and you would leave Beirut with a copilot that had maybe 200 hours in airplanes and fortunately a first rate plumber and off you’d go around the world. My favorite run was Dubai to Kabul, Afghanistan with a stop in Kandahar. Kabul is a one way strip, land uphill and take off downhill, it was 6000 foot elevation with no navaids. What made it so interesting for me was, at the time. I was reading James Michenor’s “Caravans’ which described Afghanistan in 1955 or so, which hadn’t changed very much in 2000 years. And here I was exploring Kabul 20 years after that. During those 2 years I made many round the world trips and many over the pole trips.

In 1977 I moved back to Vegas and was Director of Operations for Nevada Airlines flying DC-3’s and Twin Beech’s to the Canyon. In September of 77 I was called to Budapest for another CIA operation flying 707’s loaded with arms and ammo to Mogadishu.

The background on these flights was that in the late 70’s and early 80’s the name of the game was real estate on the Red Sea, because if for any reason the Straits of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf became blocked oil would have to flow through Yanbu in southwest Saudi and out the Red Sea. Somalia was a longtime client of Russia who had built a deep water port in Berbera at the north end of the country and we wanted it. Russia then made the colossal mistake of supplying arms to Somalias arch enemies in Ethiopia just to the north. Somalia then kicked the Russians out and we attempted to ingratiate ourselves by supplying them ammo which had to fit their east block guns.

Leaving Budapest then refueling in Jeddah we flew radio silence down the Red Sea trying to avoid the MiGs based in Aden, South Yemen, whose sole purpose on earth was to force us down and expose this trans-shipment of arms. The briefing was simple. If you guys get into trouble DON’T CALL US.

Back to Vegas in December of that year I was hired as Chief Pilot for Bonanza Airlines 2 operating DC-3’s and a Gulfstream 1 from Vegas to Aspen. After that airline collapsed I was hired by Hilton Hotels to fly their Lear 35 A. In my spare time I flew part time for Dynalectron and the EPA on an underground nuke test monitoring program. I flew their B-26, OV-10, Volpar Beech and Huey helicopter. I also flew the Tri Motor Ford part time for Scenic Airlines.

In 1978 my Dad passed away and left me with one dollar, which incidentally, I never got. 25 years have passed since Dad has been gone, and in time, all feelings mellow. If somehow I could, I would just like to tell him… I still think he was an jerk.

In 1980 I ran for the Nevada State Senate district 4. I lost miserably only because I was uninformed, unprepared and both of my size 9 triple E’s were continually in my mouth.

I took an unauthorized leave of absence from Hilton to go to Cairo and fly the teacher movement for Aero America in Boeing 720’s, throughout the Middle East and Africa for 3 weeks.

Arriving back in Las Vegas I was summarily fired from Hilton and moved back to Cairo for 2 years to fly for Air Trans another CIA cutout. After the Camp David accords were signed in 1979 each country, Egypt and Israel were required to operate 4 flights a week into the others country. Of course, El Al pilots didn’t mind flying into Cairo but you could not find an Egyptian pilot that would fly into Tel Aviv. So an Egyptian airline was formed called Nefertiti Airlines with me as chief pilot to fly the 4 flights a week into Tel Aviv. On our off time we flew subcontract for Egyptair throughout Europe and Africa.

All this, of course was just a cover for our real missions which was all kinds of nefarious gun running throughout Europe and Africa which we did in our spare time. And now that our beloved 40th president has passed on I can tell you that in fact (with my apologies to Michael Reagan) the October Surprise was true. The October surprise for those of you that don’t remember happened during October of 1980 when Reagan and Bush were running against Carter and Mondale George Bush was flown in a BAC 111 one Saturday night to Paris to meet with the Ayatollah Khomeini. Bush offered the Khomeini a deal whereby if he would delay the release of the hostages held in Tehran until Reagan’s inauguration, the administration would supply unlimited guns and ammunition to the Iranians. In order to get Bush back for a Sunday morning brunch so that nobody would be alerted to his absence he was flown back in an SR-71 from Reims field near Paris to McGuire AFB. Of course Reagan won, the hostages were released and one of my jobs in Cairo was to deliver those arms from Tel Aviv to Tehran. Unfortunately, the first airplane in, an Argentinean CL-44 was shot down by the Russians just south of Yerevan and Mossad who was running the operation didn’t want to risk sending my 707. The arms where eventually delivered through Dubai, across the Persian Gulf and directly into Tehran. During the 2 years I was in Cairo I averaged 180 hours a month with a top month of 236 hours in a 31 day period. I spent a 6 week tour in Khartoum flying cows to Saana, North Yemen in an old Rolls Royce powered 707.

One of the daily grinds out of Cairo was the Cairo-Luxor Aswan run with mostly American tourists. Occasionally the Egyptian military would hop a ride with us to their duty station. Inbound to Luxor I would fly low over the Nile and over the PA point out the various landmarks. “On the right you can see the Valley of the Kings where Tutankamans tomb was found in 1908. And on the left in the Temple of Karnak. As many of you from the states know, Karnak the Magnificent himself appears from time to time on the Johnny Carson Show. One Egyptian General became irate. “No, no, this is impossible, Karnak died thousands of years ago.”

It was also during this period that I became the only pilot to have flown captain on an Egyptian airline flight (UZ-444 Cairo-Tel Aviv) and Captain on an El Al (Israeli) flight (LY-581 Tel Aviv) on the same day, November 10, 1981.

Back in Las Vegas in December of 1982 I sat on my ass until I was out of money, again, and then went to work for Global Int’l Airlines in Kansas City, another CIA cutout run by Farhad Azima, an Iranian with a bonafide Gold Plated Get Out of Jail Free card flying 707’s until they collapsed in October of 83. During the summer of 1983 the FAA celebrated its 25th Anniversary at the Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center in Oklahoma City. There was much fanfare and speech making and 2 honored guests. Bill Conrad from Miami, Florida who had the most type ratings, I think over 50 . And myself. I had the most airman certificates issued of any airman.

After Globals collapse I went went to work for American Trans Air flying 707’s. I wrote their international navigation manual as MNPS for North Atlantic operations was just being implemented and became the first FAA designated check airman for MNPS navigation. ATA then added 727’s and then Lockheed L-1011’s. For a very brief time I was qualified as captain in all 3. After getting fired from ATA in July of 1989 I became a freight dog flying DC-8’s for Rosenbalm Aviation which became Flagship Express and after that airline collapsed I was hired as Chief pilot for Patriot Airlines out of Stead Field in Reno, flying cargo 727’s from Miami to South America. After getting fired from Patriot I went to work for Connie Kalitta, starting at the bottom of the seniority list, flying co-pilot on DC-8s. I eventually got back into the left seat then to the L-1011 on which I was a check airman. Kalitta sold out to Kitty Hawk International which went bankrupt in May of 2000.

I was 57 at the time and nobody is going to hire an old fart for two and a half years except to fly sideways so I turned in my stripes and ever present flask of Courvoisier. Except for one last fling in March of 2001 where I flew the Hadj for a Cambodian Airline flying L-1011’s under contract to Air India. We were based in New Delhi and flew to Jeddah from all throughout India. There was absolutely no paperwork, no FAA, no BS and for 6 weeks we just moved Hadji’s back and forth to Saudi Arabia.

One final note, in October of 1999 I had the honor and extreme pleasure to get checked out in a Lockheed CF-104D Starfighter. My instructor was Darryl Greenamyer, the airplane was owned by Mark and Gretchen Sherman of Phoenix. It was the highlight of my aviation career particularly because I survived my first and only SFO in a high performance fighter.

One other thing, some how I managed to get the following type ratings: 707/720/727, Convair 240/340/440, DC-3, DC-8, B-26, Gulfstream 1, Lockheed Constellation, Lear Jet series, HS-125, Lockheed L-1011, Lockheed L-18, Lockheed P-38, Martin 202/404, B-17, B-25, Grumman TBM and Ford Trimotor. I also have single and multi engine sea, rotorcraft helicopter and gyroplane, and lighter than air free balloon. I never got all categories having missed the Airship.

And in case you are interested many, many airmen have lots more type ratings. What I did get…that no other airman got was most FAA certificates: these are the ATP, Flight Instructor with airplane single and multi engine, instrument, rotorcraft helicopter and gyroplane and glider. Flight Navigator, Flight Engineer, Senior Parachute Rigger, Control Tower Operator, A&P, Ground Instructor, Advanced and Instrument and Aircraft Dispatcher. I have 19,488 hours of total time of which 15,325 hours is in 1,2,3 or 4 engine jet. I took a total of 181 FAA (or designated check airman) check rides and failed 2. I have flown 119 types of airplanes, helicopters, gyroplanes and gliders.

Of the thousands of times I knowingly violated an FAA regulation I was only caught once but never charged or prosecuted.

The farthest I have ever been off course was 321 miles left over the South China Sea in a 707 on New Years day 1977 on a flight from Taipai. The deviation was not caught by Hong Kong, Manila or Singapore radar and I penetrated six zero to unlimited restricted areas west of the Philippines. I landed in Singapore 7 minutes late without further incident. How, you ask, did I get so far off course? The short answer is I was napping at the controls. I have flown just about everywhere except Russia, China, Mongolia, Korea, Antarctica, Australia or New Zealand.

I am a senior vice-commander of the American Legion Post No.1 Shanghai, China (Generals Ward, Chennault and Helseth) (operating in exile), a Life member of the Special Operations Association, associate member of the Air America Association, Life member of the Lighter-than-Air Society, Life member of the Soaring Society of America, Associate Life member of Roadrunners Internationale and Life member of the NRA. I earned the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Association Award for Outstanding Airmanship presented on August 15, 1969 for skill displayed on September 25, 1968 (the under the Golden Gate in the Cessna 320 deal).

Now some of you may be asking why so many airlines collapsed that I worked for and why I got fired so many times. My excuse is simple. I am not the brightest crayon in the box, I am extremely lazy, I have a smart mouth and a real poor friggin' attitude.

John Lear

Las Vegas, March 2007

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Here is a summary of John Lear's qualifications from http://www.abovetops...hread274014/pg1 . I anticipate that Len will scour what he has said to find SOMETHING he can quote out of context in spite of OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE to the contrary.

Exactly it is the summary of a not especially distinguished career. Even Lear acknowledged this he wrote the following in the last paragraph:

"Now some of you may be asking why so many airlines collapsed that I worked for and why I got fired so many times. My excuse is simple. I am not the brightest crayon in the box, I am extremely lazy, I have a smart mouth and a real poor friggin' attitude."

Notice how infrequently Len actually has an argument about the issues and how often he attacks the messenger! I think the proportion of his effort devoted to serious argument versus devoted to ad hominem smears is extremely telling.

Not true, note the essay by a highly qualified aeronautical engineer that I posted which Fetzer has avoided discussing.

He uses an old trick of proponents of crack-pottery, he tells us we should take on faith the claims of his supposed experts based on the strength of their supposedly eminent credentials. When it is pointed out those credentials are false or have been exaggerated he whines that one should not "attack the messenger" engage in "ad hominems" ignoring that he was the one who made the 'messeger's' supposed expertise central to his case.

And now that we are on the subject of Fetzer's supposed experts. As noted above the university Nila Sagadevan supposedly got his aeronautical engineering degree from DOES NOT OFFER such a degree and has not at least since it went online 2002. I called the engineering department a few hours ago and spoke to two people there (one of whom consulted others) both told me the school NEVER HAD such department. In other words HE LIED, since he is not in the FAA database I assume he lied about being a pilot as well thus his supposed expertise and credibility are zero.

Len seems to have his own political agenda

<personal attack removed>

Len, that was uncalled for. Formal warning.

Edited by Evan Burton
removed personal attack
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Guest James H. Fetzer

This is a nice illustration of deliberate distortion from a political hack. John Lear, a captain for a major US Airline has flown over 160 different types of aircraft in over 50 different countries. He holds 17 world speed record in the Lear Jet and is the only pilot ever to hold every airline certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration. Mr. Lear has flown missions worldwide for the CIA and other government agencies. A former Nevada State Senator candidate, he is the son of William P. Lear, designer of the Lear Jet executive airplane, the 8-track stereo, and founder of Lear Siegler Corporation. Yet Colby would have us believe this "is the summary of a not particularly distinguished career"! Now THAT is something that he knows up close and personal. The fact of the matter is that John Lear IS one of our nation's most distinguished pilots and that he has done a superb job of summarizing the reasons why no Boeing 767 could have flown at 560 mph at 700-1,000 feet in New York, as we find in the Hezarkhani video, and why no Boeing 757 could have flown around 500 mps just skimming the ground at the Pentagon. So Len, true to form, is doing his dead level best to attack the messenger instead of the message, because establishing the truth about 9/11 truth is no more his goal that it is in relation to JFK. Take this as a simple example of what Len Colby is about.

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This is a nice illustration of deliberate distortion from a political hack. John Lear, a captain for a major US Airline

According his own bio the only "US Airline" he ever flew for was the now defunct American Trans Air. They fired him after 6 years. They by no means were ever a "major" carrier, according to Wikipedia they had 29 planes and served 14 destinations, from experience I know they sucked the only reason people flew ATA was they were normally cheaper than the competion.

has flown over 160 different types of aircraft in over 50 different countries. He holds 17 world speed record in the Lear Jet and is the only pilot ever to hold every airline certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration. Mr. Lear has flown missions worldwide for the CIA and other government agencies.

Can you provide any citations for the above claims? He is only type rated for 22 aircraft and that's counting the Boeing 720 as a different model than the 707 even though the former is a variant of the latter.

A former Nevada State Senator candidate, he is the son of William P. Lear, designer of the Lear Jet executive airplane, the 8-track stereo, and founder of Lear Siegler Corporation.

What do the above have to do with his prominence or lack there of as a pilot?

Yet Colby would have us believe this "is the summary of a not particularly distinguished career"!

Something that Lear himself acknowledged

he has done a superb job of summarizing the reasons why no Boeing 767 could have flown at 560 mph at 700-1,000 feet in New York, as we find in the Hezarkhani video, and why no Boeing 757 could have flown around 500 mps just skimming the ground at the Pentagon.

I already posted a link to an essay by Jeff Scott, an aeronautical engineer, disputing this. Unlike Lear, Scott gave a detailed explaination of his position.

So Len, true to form, is doing his dead level best to attack the messenger instead of the message,

Lear said the flights were impossible with out telling up exactly while, the only thing his claim stands on is his supposed expertise.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Here's something from John McCarthy, whom I've interviewed several times on "The Real Deal".

Those who are interested in the truth about 9/11 should find it valuable. For some background,

review my discussion about the Pentagon event found at http://noliesradio.org/archives/21621

Friends,

I just placed this comment on the news page of Face Book as a comment on Michael Morrissey's post. Just in time for the anniversary of 911.

Bests,

John

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The governments conspiracy theory on what happened on 911 has not stood the test of time. We both know that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Nothing I have heard in the past fifty years is gonna change that theory. HOWEVER, we also know that if a witness being questioned in a court of law is caught in a lie, the judge will instruct the jury to disregard everything else this witness has testified to. With that in mind and that we are all in the court of public opinion I have but a few points on 911 which should reopen the whole 9 yards.

Professor Sabrosky glosses over the event at the Pentagon and the hole in the ground in Pennsylvania. I have big problems with just these two observations by the good professor, ten year US Marine veteran and War College teacher of the Nations Finest. US Marines with ten years experience do not have any illusions about what damage is inflicted from crashes of jet aircraft.

a. A 757 aircraft cannot fit into the hole made in the Pentagon.

b. The hole in the Pentagon was at such an elevation off of the ground that the titanium steel engines would have made furrows in the lawn and holes in the building because the wheels were not extended, otherwise they would have made dents in the Pentagon lawn. The absence of these facts are notoriously absent from any observation of the governments theory.

c. An aluminum aircraft, such as a 757, could not have penetrated three wings of the steel reinforced concrete building, the outer wing having recently been reinforced, in the most heavily defended building in the world. (A 'shape charge' constructed of conventional demolitions could be responsible for the damage to the three wings which suffered a near complete circular hole in each Pentagon wing, but not from an aluminum aircraft. Plastic Explosives, C4, burn at a rate of 25,000 feet per second)

d. The titanium steel wheel assemblies associated with a 757 were not recovered from the wreckage in the Pentagon.

e. The wings of a 757 (containing the titanium steel wheel assemblies) would have created visible damage AND a larger fire than witnessed because jet fuel is stored in the wings.

f. Titanium steel begins to melt at 3200 degrees Fahrenheit. Jet fuel burns at 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.

h. The nose wheel, also constructed of titanium steel, was not recovered from the Pentagon damage.

i. The "hole in the ground" in Shanksville, PA., did not contain one piece of wreckage notably found in any aircraft crash. No titanium steel, no luggage, no electronics, no wires, no bodies, no aluminum.

j. The crash of the Continental flight in Buffalo, NY two years ago proves that after 12 hours of fire the two titanium wheel assemblies and the titanium steel engines survived.

These and other "holes" in the governments 'conspiracy theory' of the events of 911 demand a review of the 911 Commission and the addition of the facts of the collapse of Building 7 which was totally ignored by the Commission which stands on the same level and stench as the Warren Commission Report.

When the above discrepancies are adequately addressed as to the reasons why they were ignored nearly ten years ago, then and only then will the answer as to who is responsible for the mass murders of

911 be focused on the perpetrators who currently walk among us.

John McCarthy

vpocvs@gmail.com

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id472.html

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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