Lee and Me

[Karl Kinaski]

xxx

Edited October 25, 2010 by Karl Kinaski

[David Andrews]

Ochsner producing Oswald's posthumous "Greatest Commie Hits" album ("Self-Portrait in Red") should set off alarm bells. But I withhold judgment on his entire reported involvement with medical and assassination conspiracies and personalities.

Ochsner's verifiable relation to the history of vaccines and diseases, between the polio years and the HIV years, ought to be established.

Edited October 23, 2010 by David Andrews

[Michael Hogan]

Ochsner producing Oswald's posthumous "Greatest Commie Hits" album ("Portrait in Red") should set off alarm bells. But I withhold judgment on his entire reported involvement with medical and assassination conspiracies and personalities.

Ochsner's verifiable relation to the history of vaccines and diseases, between the polio years and the HIV years, ought to be established.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1905&view=findpost&p=11494

[David Andrews]

Ochsner producing Oswald's posthumous "Greatest Commie Hits" album ("Portrait in Red") should set off alarm bells. But I withhold judgment on his entire reported involvement with medical and assassination conspiracies and personalities.

Ochsner's verifiable relation to the history of vaccines and diseases, between the polio years and the HIV years, ought to be established.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1905&view=findpost&p=11494

People interested in theories of genocide and population control through disease might like to watch this 2003 Belgian film, "The Origins of AIDS," available at this link, and other free sites listed on Google:

http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=123

IMDB.com: "From the hypothesis of British journalist Edward Hoope, the film reopens the explosively controversial subject of the origins of AIDS, zeroing in specifically on his fiercely contested proposition that the HIV virus was first transmitted to children in the Belgian Congo via contaminated polio vaccine."

This film is a standard for what I spoke of as finding a "verifiable relation" of Ochsner "to the history of vaccines and diseases" - though Ochsner is not discussed in it. I'm offering it as example, and as a somewhat gloomy enlightenment of this field of study.

Assassination researchers may feel a pang of recognition when the mainstream media and science community dismiss Edward Hoope's investigation as the speculations of a "mere journalist."

Edited October 24, 2010 by David Andrews

[Jack White]

I have NOT read the latest JVB book.

However, I HAVE read (nearly all of) Dr. Mary's Monkey, courtesy of the author. I find the premise that

the AIDS virus was created by a teen high school student and a disgraced homosexual airline pilot

(as a biological weapon to kill Castro) to be not only ludicrous, but scientifically inaccurate according

to articles I read in the 1980s in COVERT ACTION INFORMATION BULLETIN. This magazine traced the

creation of AIDS to Fort Detrick, Maryland, where government scientists combined bovine retroviruses

with monkey viruses seeking a eugenics biological weapon to be used against undesirable populations.

It was introduced in African villages under the guise of free WHO* malaria vaccinations. It was introduced

in "undesirable" homosexual groups in San Francisco and Manhattan. The AIDS virus has been found to

be (if my memory is correct) a recombinant DNA form of a BOVINE (cattle) virus and a RHESUS

(monkey) virus. I wonder where JVB and Ferrie kept their herd of cattle?

All of this was documented in CAIB long BEFORE anyone ever heard of JVB and her claims to have

invented AIDS in David Ferrie's apartment.

Jack

*World Health Organization

Interesting that nobody has addressed my posting above.

Jack

............

Covert Action Information Bulletin, 1500 Massachusetts Avenue NW, Suite 732, Washington DC 20005, Tel: 202-331-9763, Fax: 202-331-9751. Subs ($22/year) and back issues ($8/ea) are available from CAQ.

Covert Action Information Bulletin began publishing in 1978, and currently issues a well-produced quarterly of about 70 pages with no advertising. Some themes include CIA in academia, the new world order, CIA in Eastern Europe, George Bush, domestic surveillance, CIA and drugs, AIDS, the religious right, and the Nazi-Vatican-CIA nexus. Most articles contain plenty of footnotes. Most names from almost every issue through 1992 (Number 42) are in NameBase; since Number 43 the magazine changed its name to Covert Action Quarterly (CAQ) and the indexing in NameBase has been more selective.

Before 1982, this publication was best known for its "Naming Names" column, which tracked CIA officers under diplomatic cover by researching the State Department Biographic Register and the diplomatic lists issued by the U.S. and other countries. This finally became illegal when Reagan signed the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. CAIB was forced to drop this column and also became generally more cautious on the matter of CIA names. One foreign publication is continuing the earlier tradition, but CAIB/CAQ's reputation for quality, consistency, and accuracy make it a hard act to follow.

.............

Edited October 23, 2010 by Jack White

[Kathleen Collins]

Covert Action Information Bulletin began publishing in 1978, and currently issues a well-produced quarterly of about 70 pages with no advertising. Some themes include CIA in academia, the new world order, CIA in Eastern Europe, George Bush, domestic surveillance, CIA and drugs, AIDS, the religious right, and the Nazi-Vatican-CIA nexus. Most articles contain plenty of footnotes. Most names from almost every issue through 1992 (Number 42) are in NameBase; since Number 43 the magazine changed its name to Covert Action Quarterly (CAQ) and the indexing in NameBase has been more selective.

.............

Thank you for mentioning them.

Kathy C

[David Andrews]

Jack, I would never put Ft. Detrick - which brought anthrax to Tom Daschle's door - out of the loop on the AIDS epidemic. But do see the examination of Dr. Hilary Koprowski in "The Origins of AIDS." Everybody with any interest in disease hypotheses in the Oswald case should see this film for reference in investigating the topic.

http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=123

Edited October 24, 2010 by David Andrews

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Jack,

Let me give this a shot. I think you have confounded the research on which Alton Ochsner, Mary Sherman,

David Ferrie, Lee Oswald and Judyth Vary were engaged. It concerned the development of a bio-weapon,

a rapid-spreading cancer, that could be used to take out targets, such as Fidel Castro, and make it appear

to have been by natural causes. Nothing about this concerned AIDS, even if the polio-vaccine which was

contaminated with a cancer-causing monkey virus may have been related to it (AIDS). I do not know if Ft.

Detrick played an important role in the development of AIDS, which it did in the development of anthrax.

Your ad hominem attacks on David Ferrie and Judyth are completely unworthy and off-base. Ferrie was

far more than a disgraced airline pilot, just as you are far more than a former ad executive. Judyth Vary

was a stunningly successful student of cancer long before she was enticed to move to New Orleans with

promises of admission to the Tulane Medical School by Ochsner, who was a formidable presence, not only

with respect to cancer research as a former head of the American Cancer Society but also as one with ties

to the CIA and to Latin American and South American dictators and politicians. Please read ME & LEE.

So your criticism regarding AIDS is far off the mark and your ad hominem attacks on Ferrie and Vary are

equally baseless. You are my dear friend, but in this case, you are psychologically unable to bring yourself

to the point of having a mind that is even the least bit ajar about what Judyth has to tell us, which, in my

view, is extremely important (a) for humanizing the alleged assassin after decades of demonization, (2)

for exposing the development of the bio-weapon, which was probably used to kill Jack Ruby, and (3) for

revealing techniques and methods employed by the agency, including covert research in obscure settings.

Jim

I have NOT read the latest JVB book.

However, I HAVE read (nearly all of) Dr. Mary's Monkey, courtesy of the author. I find the premise that

the AIDS virus was created by a teen high school student and a disgraced homosexual airline pilot

(as a biological weapon to kill Castro) to be not only ludicrous, but scientifically inaccurate according

to articles I read in the 1980s in COVERT ACTION INFORMATION BULLETIN. This magazine traced the

creation of AIDS to Fort Detrick, Maryland, where government scientists combined bovine retroviruses

with monkey viruses seeking a eugenics biological weapon to be used against undesirable populations.

It was introduced in African villages under the guise of free WHO* malaria vaccinations. It was introduced

in "undesirable" homosexual groups in San Francisco and Manhattan. The AIDS virus has been found to

be (if my memory is correct) a recombinant DNA form of a BOVINE (cattle) virus and a RHESUS

(monkey) virus. I wonder where JVB and Ferrie kept their herd of cattle?

All of this was documented in CAIB long BEFORE anyone ever heard of JVB and her claims to have

invented AIDS in David Ferrie's apartment.

Jack

*World Health Organization

Interesting that nobody has addressed my posting above.

Jack

............

Covert Action Information Bulletin, 1500 Massachusetts Avenue NW, Suite 732, Washington DC 20005, Tel: 202-331-9763, Fax: 202-331-9751. Subs ($22/year) and back issues ($8/ea) are available from CAQ.

Covert Action Information Bulletin began publishing in 1978, and currently issues a well-produced quarterly of about 70 pages with no advertising. Some themes include CIA in academia, the new world order, CIA in Eastern Europe, George Bush, domestic surveillance, CIA and drugs, AIDS, the religious right, and the Nazi-Vatican-CIA nexus. Most articles contain plenty of footnotes. Most names from almost every issue through 1992 (Number 42) are in NameBase; since Number 43 the magazine changed its name to Covert Action Quarterly (CAQ) and the indexing in NameBase has been more selective.

Before 1982, this publication was best known for its "Naming Names" column, which tracked CIA officers under diplomatic cover by researching the State Department Biographic Register and the diplomatic lists issued by the U.S. and other countries. This finally became illegal when Reagan signed the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. CAIB was forced to drop this column and also became generally more cautious on the matter of CIA names. One foreign publication is continuing the earlier tradition, but CAIB/CAQ's reputation for quality, consistency, and accuracy make it a hard act to follow.

.............

[Jack White]

Jim...I urge you to read DR. MARY'S MONKEY. Look in the index for AIDS. Read all the

indexed references.

Every reference regards Haslam's search for the origin of AIDS. Only in the final

chapter on Judyth does he change to a cancer bioweapon by JVB.

Remember...HIV is based on recombinant BOVINE retrovirus combined with a

monkey virus.

Jack

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Does the book include her and Lee talking about Cancun? (Sorry if this was already covered in the "longest thread in the history of the forum," which for some reason I didn't read in its entirety.)

I've read the book twice quickly, like one would read a novel; I saw no mention of Cancun. Chichen-Itza, the ruins, a fine hotel, and a nearby village were mentioned. Judyth tells the reader that nothing was set in stone.

Later, when things began going awry, the love-struck couple amended their Mexico plans and decided to go and spend a year in the Caymans.

Cancun,which was a key part of a heart rending last phone call between LHO and Judyth, disappeared from the scene even before the first book came out .... and had became a matter of long and tangled discussion on newsgroups when the conversation appeared in an outline, as well as in some e-mails Judyth had written to her supporters,when it was pointed out that the city Cancun did not exist until the 70s ... and there was no fine hotel, nor access to one, anywhere near there. New explanations and changes came almost daily for awhile, and when the first book came out, the "last phone call" was completely different, though in an added conversation alleged to have taken place a few days earlier,there had been some conversation about their Mexico plans that really contained no specifics.

I did learn this: George DeMohrenschildt's walking trip through Mexico and Central America "fueled Lee's desire to follow in his footsteps." Maybe that was also in her first book, but I don't remember it.

No, it wasn't in the first book that I recall either .... nor do I recall it as a claim ever made in the large inventory of internet postings by Judyth and/or her supporters. Oswald's thoughts on the DeMorenschildt's walking trip is, however, included in DeM's manuscript, "I AM A PATSY" which was turned over to the HSCA in 1977, just days after DeM's suicide. It is also widely available on the net.

Here's a quote from the manuscript .... when socializing one evening, George showed the film of their trip to the Oswalds. DeM wrote in his manuscript:

Lee, on the other hand, commented late [sic] excitedly how much he liked the film and that he envied us for having lived for a year close to nature, an ascetic life of complete freedom. "You have walked almost 4,000 miles to get away from people, comforts, stupid gadgets and conventions. It would be my dream also . I envy you. I have never been completely free."

I AM A PATSY

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Jim...I urge you to read DR. MARY'S MONKEY. Look in the index for AIDS. Read all the

indexed references.

Every reference regards Haslam's search for the origin of AIDS. Only in the final

chapter on Judyth does he change to a cancer bioweapon by JVB.

Remember...HIV is based on recombinant BOVINE retrovirus combined with a

monkey virus.

Jack

Interesting, Jack. If one looks back at the pre-Judyth reviews (and there are a few) of Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus (1995), it is notable that there is no mention of HIV/AIDS. It is all about the SV-40 virus and the polio vaccine contamination. Here is an Amazon review written as late as March 2000 (Judyth was in touch with a few researchers, telling them her story, but had not really emerged publicly yet as a "witness" ... first mention on the net was late 1999, as I recall):

35 of 40 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH AT ITS FINEST!, March 11, 2000

By Kelleigh Nelson "Kelleigh Nelson" (Knoxville, TN) - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

This review is from: Mary, Ferrie & the Monkey Virus : The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory (Paperback)

As a producer for two national talk show hosts, I can honestly say this is one of the finest and most thought provoking books I've read. Ed Haslam's book is a major dot connector. Think about it. We already know thanks to A & E's Investigative Reports that Oswald did NOT kill Kennedy, but that's not the big jist of this book. What needs to be understood is that the polio virus vaccine all the baby boomers received via shots and sugar cubes in the 50s and 60s was contaminated with SV-40 Simian Monkey Virus...the results...an epidemic of soft tissue cancer. And SV-40 shows up in autopsies of cancer victims. However, even more horrific is that the SV-40 contamination does not end with those of us that received the polio vaccine. It is passed to our children and grandchilren even though they have not received the vaccine. Who is responsible? Ed Haslam's fabulous research was given to us in this book in 1995, and five years later, in the February, 2000 issue of Atlantic Monthly, it is finally discussed by the "regular" media. Stop and think about this...Plutonium experiments from 1936 through the cold war on unsuspecting Americans,radiation experiments on military men, the Tuskegee, Alabama syphillis experiments, the depleted uranium issues from Desert Storm, and countless others...this book exposes another form of deception and coverup. If this book doesn't make you think and do even more research, then you're in denial and have your head in the sand. There are countless other books that should be on the suggested reading list after reading Ed's fabulous work, but Amazon hasn't listed them. Please read Pulitzer Prize winner, Eileen Welsome's book, THE PLUTONIUM FILES, then read Martin A. Lee's THE BEAST REAWAKENS, and if you can find a used copy, get Borkin's THE CRIME AND PUNISHMENT OF I.G. FARBEN.

Ed's book is superb and written in a style that is easily assimilated. Buy it, buy two, give one to a friend, loan your copy, but get it out...and connect the dots!

Now, notably, there are two reviews that precede that one .... and for the first time, someone mentions AIDS. A quite short one was written by an anonymous person in December 1998):

11 of 13 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars Incredible! Must read! Cancer epidemic from polio vaccine?, December 29, 1998

By A Customer

This review is from: Mary, Ferrie & the Monkey Virus : The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory (Paperback)

This well documented book takes us from polio vaccine research, monkey virus, cancer, and to the possible origin of AIDS, all under the shadow of the JFK assassination investigation in New Orleans.

And in January 2000 there is this review, ... note who wrote it and where they lived:

23 of 26 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars Mary, Ferrie: VERY Interesting! CIA Monkey Business, January 19, 2000

By Avary Baker (Louisiana, USA) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Mary, Ferrie & the Monkey Virus : The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory (Paperback)

Ed Haslam reveals that two -- maybe more--secret cancer research laboratories were connected with Tulane University, Dr. Alton Ochsner, and persons associated with the Kennedy assassination such as "Dr." David Ferrie and Lee Harvey Oswald. Logical, organized, and intriguing, this book contains hard-to-find photos and a good map. Haslam did his homework: he may have discovered the murderers of eminent cancer research scientist and orthopedic surgeon, Dr. Mary Sherman, who was found with a missing arm, on fire, and full of knife wounds, one to her heart. His book gives the reader a picture of sabotage, biological blunders and anti-Castro lab activity, and gives us hints about where the AIDS epidemic came from. Since this happened in New Orleans in 1963-1964, there may have been a lot of reasons for all the cover-ups concerning Oswald, who lived only about a mile from Dr. Sherman and the high tech research facility where she seems to have secretly worked. Bring your brains along, though: this book forces you to rethink what many people take for granted about the role of Lee Oswald, the alleged assassin of JFK.

Judyth Avary Baker was living and going to school in Lafayette, Louisiana at the time... and, as she noted in the Exile thread a few months ago, she was using Avary as a first name there at times. And she mentions AIDS .... in the same rather offhand way that the anonymous reviewer did in December of 1998. But, bear in mind, Judyth has always sworn that she never did ANY research before "coming out" to a handful of supporters who held her as a "secret witness" for some time ... and, also in the Exile thread, and elsewhere, she says she did not read Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus until December 1999.

Notably, those are the only two reviews I have ever seen ***pre-Judyth being known*** that mention anything about AIDS in conjunction with Haslam's theory and book.

These reviews can be found here: MARY, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus reviews

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Cancun,which was a key part of a heart rending last phone call between LHO and Judyth, disappeared from the scene even before the first book came out .... and had became a matter of long and tangled discussion on newsgroups when the conversation appeared in an outline, as well as in some e-mails Judyth had written to her supporters,when it was pointed out that the city Cancun did not exist until the 70s ... and there was no fine hotel, nor access to one, anywhere near there. New explanations and changes came almost daily for awhile, and when the first book came out, the "last phone call" was completely different, though in an added conversation alleged to have taken place a few days earlier,there had been some conversation about their Mexico plans that really contained no specifics.

Let me just say that I'm no Judyth supporter but I wonder how siginificant details like that really are. I mean, I frequently misremember details, names, places, faces etc, from only half a dozen years ago. Lord knows what I'll get wrong forty years after the fact.

Hi Martin,

The problem most have is not that one could be expected to forget exact words and details, but that the conversations given in quotes *changed* ... and not just a word here or there, but as problems (conflicts with facts for the most part) were pointed out, they changed radically, and new ones emerged to replace them.

But, I understand your point. So why not let Judyth herself address it, as she did just about a week ago in a long missive on scribd titled,

"ME & LEE: HOW I CAME TO KNOW, LOVE AND

LOSE LEE HARVEY

OSWALD --AND WHY I DID

NOT FORGET HIS WORDS

by Judyth Vary Baker"

It was posted on October 16th. It runs 9 pages and not all pertains directly to this question, but here are a couple of paragraphs that do.

Quoting Judyth:

Once a year, around Thanksgiving, I would go through several boxes of ‘old things’ – a

habit that also produced stacks of Christmas ornaments and other items to begin

Christmas decorating. I would dedicate a whole day to what I believed was my duty:n o t

to forget. After my 1986 divorce, I was able to spend far more time going over the

conversations and events, without fear of being discovered.

and ...

I wish to make it clear that the conversations that Lee Oswald and I shared were

memorized and kept fresh in my memories over time because they were not the ordinary

kind of conversations that a man and a woman share, who are in love. They were

conversation kept intact in my memory because they were conversations involving the

planned murder of Cuba’s communist leader, Fidel Castro, the clandestine development

of formidable bioweapons, and the knowledge that Lee Oswald confided to me that he

had penetrated an assassination ring intent on killing Kennedy. Would YOU forget such

conversations?

There are a couple others, as well. The entire thing can be seen here:

Me and Lee - And Why I Did Not Forget His Words

Judyth tells us she set aside time every year to reinforce her memories. This is a new claim ... as previously she has always said she couldn't bear to see or hear anything that reminded her of that time. Nevertheless, conversations memorized, and reinforced yearly, shouldn't change and become completely different conversations, imo.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Steve Duffy]

Barb, thanks for all of the above, it's exactly what I'm needing people to post. And a special "Ho Ray!" for the link to the Baron's book. It's much appreciated, Steve.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

My take on the great "Cancun/Kankun" controversy is that (1) the region she and Lee discussed visiting (which Lee had learned about from George de Mohrenschildt) was rather obscure at the time, where (2) she learned years later that it was close to an area that is now familiar to most of us known as "Cancun" and (3) during her conversation with David Lifton, she mentioned the name of the area she thought would be easier for him to place, which he seized upon like a bulldog and has never let go. That's my take on it. Once she mentioned the name "Cancun/Kankun", she was impailed on her (minor) gaff by a student with a powerful motive to discredit her, because Lifton has his own manuscript on Lee (about which we have heard for some seven years by now) which would have to be substantially rewritten if Judyth were "the real deal". I have repeatedly asked David to release the tape recording he made of his conversation with Judyth, but he refuses to do it. My take is that he refuses, not because of alleged concerns that he might face legal repercussions from having make a recording that was illegal (because he had not informed Judyth he was recording it), but because its contents would undermine his "explanation" for why he discounts Judyth as being the person she claims to be (science student, Reily's employee, friend of Lee, conducting research on a bio-weapon with Mary and Ferrie, and all that). Barb would never admit it, but when you take into account the circumstances and history of events in and around New Orleans at the time that can be readily documented, there was a woman there who was playing the role we now know that Judyth claims to have played. She and Lifton and others who want to discredit Judyth do that by finding something -- it could be anything! -- where they detect some kind of inconsistency at some point in what she has had to tell us. But it is well-known to professional investigators that most people, even when they are doing their level best to report the truth as they know it, tell their stories in slightly different ways from time to time, which is one reason they try to have them go over them, again and again. Judyth believed so strongly that her experiences with Lee were important to be made known to the public that she placed herself in the position of being interrogated, again and again, where the kinds of slips and mistakes and variations that are commonplace to multiple inquiries of this kind inevitably took place. And they have never let them go! So ask yourself, given the nature of your own experience, are Barb and Lifton, among others, being reasonable or fair toward Judyth and her story or are they conducting some kind of vendetta to discredit her for reasons of their own?

Ultimately, you want to ask how what Judyth has to say fits in with everything else we know about the assassination. Does her "hypothesis" about events in New Orleans "hang together" with everything else we know? The book is loaded with photos, records, clippings, and other substantiating evidence. If Judyth is not the person she claims to be, then who, for example, was observed by Mary Morgan while Lee Oswald was visiting her father near Clinton? Why would Anna Lewis be willing to do a video interview in which she affirmed having spent time with her husband David in the company of Judyth and Lee? Why would Kathy Santi, a former classmate in whom she had confided her plans, who is now herself a doctor, have expressed surprise that Judyth had not pursued the medical career they had talked about shortly before she left for Louisiana? How are we to explain her detailed knowledge of New Orleans, when time after time, in seeking to verify what Judyth has had to say, it was confirmed? She may not have every detail precisely right, but she has a remarkable memory. If Judyth was not covering for Lee when he worked at Reily's, then who was? Why did the initial "J", written as Judyth writes her own, appear on the records that are in official custory? Ed Haslam, the author of DR. MARY'S MONKEY, has made a huge investment in time and effort to confirm her account. He even met personally with a woman who posed as "Judyth Vary Baker" but whom he came to discover was an impostor! If Judyth was not real, why in the world would anyone seek to impersonate her? What is more likely? If Judyth is the person she claims to be, the probability of reports and documents like those from Mary Morgan, Anna Lewis, Kathy Santi, Reily time cards, her story of her life in New Orleans after becoming a world-class student of cancer while she was still in high school, and the use of an impostor to impersonate her is high and those effects of that cause are readily explainable. If Judyth was not the person Mary Morgan witnessed, then who was? If Judyth was not the person initialling Lee's time cards, then who was? If Judyth had not been lured to New Orleans by Alton Ochsner, then why did she go there and why did Kathy Santi confirm it? If they were not socializing with Anna Lewis and her husband, David, why would Anna Lewis say that they were? The probability of these effects if Judyth is not the person she claims is very low. Many of us who have no axe to grind, such as Jim Marrs, Wim Dankbaar, Dean Hartwell, Nigel Turner and "60 Minutes" have become convinced, based on our own research, that she is "the real deal". She is an imperfect human being who has lived an extraordinary life and believes that the world should know the truth about Lee Oswald in relation to JFK. Beware of those who want to mislead and deceive you and ask yourself which take on her story makes the most sense.

Cancun,which was a key part of a heart rending last phone call between LHO and Judyth, disappeared from the scene even before the first book came out .... and had became a matter of long and tangled discussion on newsgroups when the conversation appeared in an outline, as well as in some e-mails Judyth had written to her supporters,when it was pointed out that the city Cancun did not exist until the 70s ... and there was no fine hotel, nor access to one, anywhere near there. New explanations and changes came almost daily for awhile, and when the first book came out, the "last phone call" was completely different, though in an added conversation alleged to have taken place a few days earlier,there had been some conversation about their Mexico plans that really contained no specifics.

Let me just say that I'm no Judyth supporter but I wonder how siginificant details like that really are. I mean, I frequently misremember details, names, places, faces etc, from only half a dozen years ago. Lord knows what I'll get wrong forty years after the fact.

Edited October 24, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

I just love how Barb quotes a superb and highly laudatory review of MARY, FERRIE & THE MONKEY VIRUS but then goes to great lengths to try to convince us not to believe it! I don't understand why Jack is preoccupied with AIDS, which, as I have previously explained, was not the focus of their research. Ochsner and Sherman were concerned about the contamination of the polio vaccine with SV-40, and SV-40 could be related to the origin of AIDS. But that was not Judyth's research project. Mary, Ferrie, and Vary were developing a bio-weapon that could be used to take out political enemies, like Fidel Castro, and make it appear that they died from "natural causes", a weapon that appears to have been used to kill Jack Ruby. So even though the monkey virus may have been related to the origin of AIDS, they were not doing research on the origin of AIDS. But Jack and I at least agree that it is important to read DR. MARY'S MONKEY, which provides a framework for understanding the context within which Judyth's relationship with Lee took place as told in ME & LEE. And thanks to Barb for coming up with these obscure reviews, which are interesting on their own!

35 of 40 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH AT ITS FINEST!, March 11, 2000

By Kelleigh Nelson "Kelleigh Nelson" (Knoxville, TN) - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

This review is from: Mary, Ferrie & the Monkey Virus : The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory (Paperback)

As a producer for two national talk show hosts, I can honestly say this is one of the finest and most thought provoking books I've read. Ed Haslam's book is a major dot connector. Think about it. We already know thanks to A & E's Investigative Reports that Oswald did NOT kill Kennedy, but that's not the big jist of this book. What needs to be understood is that the polio virus vaccine all the baby boomers received via shots and sugar cubes in the 50s and 60s was contaminated with SV-40 Simian Monkey Virus...the results...an epidemic of soft tissue cancer. And SV-40 shows up in autopsies of cancer victims. However, even more horrific is that the SV-40 contamination does not end with those of us that received the polio vaccine. It is passed to our children and grandchilren even though they have not received the vaccine. Who is responsible? Ed Haslam's fabulous research was given to us in this book in 1995, and five years later, in the February, 2000 issue of Atlantic Monthly, it is finally discussed by the "regular" media. Stop and think about this...Plutonium experiments from 1936 through the cold war on unsuspecting Americans,radiation experiments on military men, the Tuskegee, Alabama syphillis experiments, the depleted uranium issues from Desert Storm, and countless others...this book exposes another form of deception and coverup. If this book doesn't make you think and do even more research, then you're in denial and have your head in the sand. There are countless other books that should be on the suggested reading list after reading Ed's fabulous work, but Amazon hasn't listed them. Please read Pulitzer Prize winner, Eileen Welsome's book, THE PLUTONIUM FILES, then read Martin A. Lee's THE BEAST REAWAKENS, and if you can find a used copy, get Borkin's THE CRIME AND PUNISHMENT OF I.G. FARBEN.

Ed's book is superb and written in a style that is easily assimilated. Buy it, buy two, give one to a friend, loan your copy, but get it out...and connect the dots!

Jim...I urge you to read DR. MARY'S MONKEY. Look in the index for AIDS. Read all the

indexed references.

Every reference regards Haslam's search for the origin of AIDS. Only in the final

chapter on Judyth does he change to a cancer bioweapon by JVB.

Remember...HIV is based on recombinant BOVINE retrovirus combined with a

monkey virus.

Jack

Interesting, Jack. If one looks back at the pre-Judyth reviews (and there are a few) of Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus (1995), it is notable that there is no mention of HIV/AIDS. It is all about the SV-40 virus and the polio vaccine contamination. Here is an Amazon review written as late as March 2000 (Judyth was in touch with a few researchers, telling them her story, but had not really emerged publicly yet as a "witness" ... first mention on the net was late 1999, as I recall):

35 of 40 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH AT ITS FINEST!, March 11, 2000

By Kelleigh Nelson "Kelleigh Nelson" (Knoxville, TN) - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

This review is from: Mary, Ferrie & the Monkey Virus : The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory (Paperback)

As a producer for two national talk show hosts, I can honestly say this is one of the finest and most thought provoking books I've read. Ed Haslam's book is a major dot connector. Think about it. We already know thanks to A & E's Investigative Reports that Oswald did NOT kill Kennedy, but that's not the big jist of this book. What needs to be understood is that the polio virus vaccine all the baby boomers received via shots and sugar cubes in the 50s and 60s was contaminated with SV-40 Simian Monkey Virus...the results...an epidemic of soft tissue cancer. And SV-40 shows up in autopsies of cancer victims. However, even more horrific is that the SV-40 contamination does not end with those of us that received the polio vaccine. It is passed to our children and grandchilren even though they have not received the vaccine. Who is responsible? Ed Haslam's fabulous research was given to us in this book in 1995, and five years later, in the February, 2000 issue of Atlantic Monthly, it is finally discussed by the "regular" media. Stop and think about this...Plutonium experiments from 1936 through the cold war on unsuspecting Americans,radiation experiments on military men, the Tuskegee, Alabama syphillis experiments, the depleted uranium issues from Desert Storm, and countless others...this book exposes another form of deception and coverup. If this book doesn't make you think and do even more research, then you're in denial and have your head in the sand. There are countless other books that should be on the suggested reading list after reading Ed's fabulous work, but Amazon hasn't listed them. Please read Pulitzer Prize winner, Eileen Welsome's book, THE PLUTONIUM FILES, then read Martin A. Lee's THE BEAST REAWAKENS, and if you can find a used copy, get Borkin's THE CRIME AND PUNISHMENT OF I.G. FARBEN.

Ed's book is superb and written in a style that is easily assimilated. Buy it, buy two, give one to a friend, loan your copy, but get it out...and connect the dots!

Now, notably, there are two reviews that precede that one .... and for the first time, someone mentions AIDS. A quite short one was written by an anonymous person in December 1998):

11 of 13 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars Incredible! Must read! Cancer epidemic from polio vaccine?, December 29, 1998

By A Customer

This review is from: Mary, Ferrie & the Monkey Virus : The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory (Paperback)

This well documented book takes us from polio vaccine research, monkey virus, cancer, and to the possible origin of AIDS, all under the shadow of the JFK assassination investigation in New Orleans.

And in January 2000 there is this review, ... note who wrote it and where they lived:

23 of 26 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars Mary, Ferrie: VERY Interesting! CIA Monkey Business, January 19, 2000

By Avary Baker (Louisiana, USA) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Mary, Ferrie & the Monkey Virus : The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory (Paperback)

Ed Haslam reveals that two -- maybe more--secret cancer research laboratories were connected with Tulane University, Dr. Alton Ochsner, and persons associated with the Kennedy assassination such as "Dr." David Ferrie and Lee Harvey Oswald. Logical, organized, and intriguing, this book contains hard-to-find photos and a good map. Haslam did his homework: he may have discovered the murderers of eminent cancer research scientist and orthopedic surgeon, Dr. Mary Sherman, who was found with a missing arm, on fire, and full of knife wounds, one to her heart. His book gives the reader a picture of sabotage, biological blunders and anti-Castro lab activity, and gives us hints about where the AIDS epidemic came from. Since this happened in New Orleans in 1963-1964, there may have been a lot of reasons for all the cover-ups concerning Oswald, who lived only about a mile from Dr. Sherman and the high tech research facility where she seems to have secretly worked. Bring your brains along, though: this book forces you to rethink what many people take for granted about the role of Lee Oswald, the alleged assassin of JFK.

Judyth Avary Baker was living and going to school in Lafayette, Louisiana at the time... and, as she noted in the Exile thread a few months ago, she was using Avary as a first name there at times. And she mentions AIDS .... in the same rather offhand way that the anonymous reviewer did in December of 1998. But, bear in mind, Judyth has always sworn that she never did ANY research before "coming out" to a handful of supporters who held her as a "secret witness" for some time ... and, also in the Exile thread, and elsewhere, she says she did not read Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus until December 1999.

Notably, those are the only two reviews I have ever seen ***pre-Judyth being known*** that mention anything about AIDS in conjunction with Haslam's theory and book.

These reviews can be found here: MARY, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus reviews

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited October 24, 2010 by James H. Fetzer