Was JFK really waving?

[Bill Miller]

You may finally be right about something. I am indeed, spitting into the wind trying to get a straight answer from you.

"I cannot agree with her conclusion while at the same time I can agree with her spacing of the only shots she had heard."

Yes Bill, you can indeed agree with her about the spacing of the shots. My question is, do you?

This is my sixth try.

"Spitting" was my second choice of words that came to mind. What can you not understand as to what I have said ... I notice that no one else is having trouble with it but you. Read the spacing of shots Millican mentioned ... then Moorman ... neither matching that of Woodward's, so who is right - maybe all of them ... maybe none of them? Nellie heard two shots that came before her husband had recoiled to his right in reaction to being shot through the shoulder ... and then the third shot when JFK's head exploded. Only a screwball would try and make a case from any one witness while ignoring the rest.

Like I said, the number of shots heard depended on several factors and one of them was the witnesses location in the plaza at the time each shot was fired. Sorry you don't like hearing this .... blame it on the test firings done for the movie 'JFK'.

Bill Miller

Edited November 5, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

You may finally be right about something. I am indeed, spitting into the wind trying to get a straight answer from you.

"I cannot agree with her conclusion while at the same time I can agree with her spacing of the only shots she had heard."

Yes Bill, you can indeed agree with her about the spacing of the shots. My question is, do you?

This is my sixth try.

"Spitting" was my second choice of words that came to mind. What can you not understand as to what I have said ... I notice that no one else is having trouble with it but you. Read the spacing of shots Millican mentioned ... then Moorman ... neither matching that of Woodward's, so who is right - maybe all of them ... maybe none of them? Nellie heard two shots that came before her husband had recoiled to his right in reaction to being shot through the shoulder ... and then the third shot when JFK's head exploded. Only a screwball would try and make a case from any one witness while ignoring the rest.

Like I said, the number of shots heard depended on several factors and one of them was the witnesses location in the plaza at the time each shot was fired. Sorry you don't like hearing this .... blame it on the test firings done for the movie 'JFK'.

Bill Miller

ROFLMAO!!!!

Let me give you a clue here Mr. Miller. In spite of all your pathetically lame excuses and evasions, the number one factor in what the witnesses heard, was the gunshots. It's just that simple.

And the witnesses were overwhelmingly consistent about the shots they were able to hear and when they heard them. The fact that you have to endlessly make up excuses for why they fully corroborate me tells us much more about you than it does about them.

BTW, when are you going to answer my question about when you think the shots were fired?? Is this just a case of bashfulness or are you still looking for a pair of dry pants

[Robert Harris]

Holy crap!

Are you drunk when you write this stuff??

Actually Robert, I don't drink alcohol, so what's your excuse for the deluded crap that you are pushing?

Your latest claim on your own forum really had me in hysterics.

The Babushka Lady "was standing quite still and strangely, seems to be focusing her camera on the umbrella man and DC man at that instant"

Yes, that is exactly what I said. Are you going to try to disagree with me again, Duncan?

You know these things never turn out well for you

[David Andrews]

I don't know if we can peg where Babushka Lady is aiming her lens. She could be peering over the top of the camera and waiting for the limo to approach the mark she's aiming at so she can get a close-up (if indeed she's not aiming at the limo in the photo). Her right arm obscures her sightline in this full-frame - we need a detail.

Edited November 5, 2010 by David Andrews

[Robert Harris]

I don't know if we can peg where Babushka Lady is aiming her lens. She could be peering over the top of the camera and waiting for the limo to approach the mark she's aiming at so she can get a close-up (if indeed she's not aiming at the limo in the photo). Her right arm obscures her sightline in this full-frame - we need a detail.

Well, I suppose but I think it's much more likely that she was filming UM who was certainly unusual enough to merit a second or so of footage.

As for poor Duncan, he was obviously wrong again, which is why he went into another incoherent fantasy babble. I cannot imagine what it must feel like being him

[Bill Miller]

And the witnesses were overwhelmingly consistent about the shots they were able to hear and when they heard them. The fact that you have to endlessly make up excuses for why they fully corroborate me tells us much more about you than it does about them.

BTW, when are you going to answer my question about when you think the shots were fired?? Is this just a case of bashfulness or are you still looking for a pair of dry pants

I offered three examples of shooting sequences offered by witnesses who also heard gunfire and they didn't match - that is a fact. People who have seen your claims over the years say that its always been junk research based on the most meaningless details ... like the closed fist garbage you set out to push recently.

About the 'when the shots were fired' .... My opinions on that have been known for years by what must be everyone, but you despite my debating my thoughts with you for weeks now. Save this for later reference so not to have to ask me again or to wrongly state that I have not answered this question.

Shots that I believe occurred and when ....

The first shot came between Betzner's photo and the Willis photo. There are several reasons for my saying this ... one man said he had just snapped his picture when the first loud explosion came and the other man said he heard the explosion and took his photo at the same instant .... possibly a half a second later. JFK on the Zapruder film appears to be waving and smiling at the women with Woodward just as his hand immediately comes back into the limo and across his face where it continues on to both hands being in front of his mouth. This action also falls between the Betzner and Willis photos.

The next shot fired would be the one that hit Connally in the shoulder, thus driving him forward and downward immediately on impact. I have stated over the years with stabilized clips showing this moment of impact. I have spoken about the "transfer of momentum" and how it applied to Z223/224 (the moment the energy of the imapct of the bullet was transferred as it went through Connally's shoulder and chest)

The next shot came when the man Ed Hoffman saw had fired a shot from the fence which caused smoke drift out from under the trees that Holland, Simmons, Dodd, and so on reported seeing at that instant.

The second shot from the fence came from the Badge Man location in my view. I say this because I have seen the Badge Man work that Jack and Gary did. I believe from the photographic film record that Arnold was on the knoll and that Jack and Gary's work support Arnold's story. I also have personally spoke to Earl Golz as to what Yarborough said to him pertaining to seeing Arnold.

As to the why the Badgeman shot came second is two fold ...

Moorman's photo was taken 3/18ths of a second after JFK's head exploded between Z312 and Z313. Knowing that a bullet traveling at 2000 fps would go from the fence to the street in only a fraction of 1/18th of a second and because Mrs. Edna Hartman said that she witnessed a furrow in the grass leading back to the Badge Man location that an officer confirmed was a bullet strike .... and because JFK's head didn't explode twice, I find suffient evidence that the more likely scenario I have just stated is supported by the evidence when taken as a whole.

I am also aware of a shot being reported sparking off the street ... though not during the Towner filming as you attempted to lean towards, but later when the limo was near the Chism's. I also believe a shot missed the car and hit the curb near James Tauge. These additional shots, if they were shots, would total six bullets fired, which is the same amount of impulses thought to be discovered on the Police dicta-belt recording.

What I have just stated has been posted on not only this forum, but Lancer's over the years. So please read it - save it to your research notes so not to error again by saying I have never stated my views on this matter. If you continue with the same modus-operandi, then I will have no choice but to refer you to the archives.

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

I didn't think your theories could get any sillier, Robert, but you're trumping yourself here by a long way, and proving once again that you haven't a clue about varying perspectives in varying photographs. Cutting the limo out of Bronson tp prove a line of sight is just hilarious.

Years ago I did some stabilization's of the BL and she rotated her upper body to the speed of the passing limo, which is basically what Beverly Oliver said she had done. The Muchmore and Nix films should also indicate this .... now I will let Robert get back to making a joke out of the Education Forum with his disgruntled meaningless responses.

Bill Miller

[Chris Davidson]

I don't know if we can peg where Babushka Lady is aiming her lens. She could be peering over the top of the camera and waiting for the limo to approach the mark she's aiming at so she can get a close-up (if indeed she's not aiming at the limo in the photo). Her right arm obscures her sightline in this full-frame - we need a detail.

David,

I think I can tell you when Babushka stopped filming or took her last picture.

Watch those arms drop.

I like the lady in pink, she's frozen in time.

chris

Edited November 5, 2010 by Chris Davidson

[Martin Hinrichs]

Show me your analysis and your numbers, Martin. I am disappointed that you would claim that you see nothing unusual about his face then, but I guess the human mind can do strange things.

No need to be disappointed Bob. That kind of things happend too often JFK Assassination boards.

Here in this first posting the locations of Jim and Tina Towner extracted from Dorman intruded to

my map.

Now we have to step into the second posting cause just two images allowed to upload (and thats a mess here )

[Martin Hinrichs]

Now the next step....

and here the equivalent Towner film frame to Towner Still frame where JFK looked startled (according to you).

and here JFK the moment he raised his hands.

23 frames later. 1.3 seconds later. Thats not working.

[Martin Hinrichs]

Very nice summary, Martin.

Thank you Duncan

[Robin Unger]

Very nice summary, Martin.

Thank you Duncan

Thanks Martin / Chris

Very nice work as always.

Chris

In your Bronson GIF i noticed two things.

(1)- the Toni Foster "side step" as can be seen in the nix frames.

(2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters

looks like a man walking out of the left side of the pergola, possible Charles Hester on the move ?

Click on Attachment:

Edited November 6, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Three of the closest witnesses were never called to testify by the Warren Commission.

WHY ?

Bill and Gayle Newman were on television soon after the assassination, so the WC had to know there names.

Toni Foster was so close when kennedy's head exploded, that she side steped to her right.

Toni Foster ( Credit: Debra Conway ) JFK Lancer Forum

[Robin Unger]

Cheryl McKinnon next to the Newmans on the grass.

Despite her appearing in many of the movies and photo's taken that day,and being one ofthe closest witness's i can't even find a DPD police report on her. ?

Mary Woodward.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

8-Frame GIF

Edited November 6, 2010 by Robin Unger