Was JFK really waving?

[Robin Unger]

Bronson Zoomed

Click on thumbnail

Edited November 7, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Very nice summary, Martin.

Thank you Duncan

Thanks Martin / Chris

Very nice work as always.

Chris

In your Bronson GIF i noticed two things.

(1)- the Toni Foster "side step" as can be seen in the nix frames.

(2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters

looks like a man walking out of the left side of the pergola, possible Charles Hester on the move ?

Click on Attachment:

Thanks Robin,

I'm a little more interested in the red box and surrounding area.

That looks like the guy in Z.

Should we also see at least one of the three down closer to the street? Altgen's being one of them.

chris

P.S.

I believe Martin has it correct in that, it is a newspaper reflection, which is held by Beatrice Hester.

If that is the area you are describing.

Chris / Martin

What is see is a small BLACK shape appearing in frame 8

Click on thumbnail

hi robin; upper right hand corner square is that not the hesters getting up from their bench and beginning their run down the knoll......best b

Hi B

Yes i agree.

That is why i said in my original post, that it looked like Charles Hester in his black suit on the move.

[Robin Unger]

Hi Bill

I posted this previously but you may not have seen it.

Life magazine Betzner 3 / Willis 5 composite.

All SS agents have there heads in identical positions in BOTH photo's apart from Hickey.

If you look at Hickey in Willis 5 he has turned his head to look in the direction of Kennedy.

This indicates to me that something caught his attention, possibly the same noise that caused Willis to snap his image.

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Edited November 7, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

I agree with that, Bill.

Another short video which I made a while ago which shows the reaction.

Yes, a picture is worth a thousand words. Action and reaction and understanding the differences is most helpful. (click on image below to activate)

People like Harris don't seem to know that Connally demonstrated before the press cameras his (head) turn to the right to see the President. It was that turn that Connally said he was looking for when he examined the transparencies that Life Magazine provided him. Had Harris of known this, then I don't think he would be thinking the later full torso turn was what was meant.

JFK's reaction started when he stopped his wave and first started bringing his hand into the car and across his face. The President and Connally disappeared for just over a second and when JFK emerged he was already in the process of bringing his hands up to his mouth as Connally's right shoulder was being shoved forward and downward with what could be little else than the transfer of momentum from the second shot going through his upper torso.

Bill Miller

LARGE High Resolution Stabilized GIF

Size 24MB

Credit: Martin Hinrichs ( Frames provided by Robin Unger )

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Martin_Zapruder.gif

Edited November 7, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Bronson angle adjusted.

[Robert Harris]

Now the next step....

and here the equivalent Towner film frame to Towner Still frame where JFK looked startled (according to you).

and here JFK the moment he raised his hands.

23 frames later. 1.3 seconds later. Thats not working.

Martin, I think you are a little off. Notice JFK's right hand in Towner's photo. The best match I can find is about 18 frames prior to JFK starting to raise his hand, which works about to be 9/10ths of a second between the photo and his reaction, based on the Towner camera running at 20fps.

As we saw in the Zapruder film, people don't react to these things like they do in the movies. Reactions are often erratic and unpredictable. Perhaps this was a delayed reaction of some kind or perhaps the shooter was using a semi automatic weapon and got off two suppressed shots in a fraction of a second. In fact, it would seem logical that a semi automatic would be the weapon of choice for a sniper in that location.

18 frames seems to last forever when we are single stepping through these films but in real life that's not enough time to draw a deep breath. Let me make a suggestion Martin. Sit down in a chair and mimic JFK during that time period, including his hand motions and his fall to the left. But have someone time you and as closely as possible, try to do what he did, in the same time span that he did them. Then tell me if this was all perfectly natural.

Also, look at the DCA films. You will see JFK waving a dozen times or more times. Tell me if you ever seen him ball his hand into a fist as he did in the Towner film. And finally, look at a good blowup of his face in the Towner photo. Tell me if you ever saw him look that way in any other photograph.

[John Dolva]

Bronson angle adjusted.

Robin, I think that when adjusting for tilt, the vertical, preferably as close to the centre of the photo as possible to take pincushioning into account, is a surer way because unless you are at the same elevation as the other object you know is horizontal it wont appear as such, particularly if it is angled away or towards you as the 'retaining wall' is.

[Martin Hinrichs]

Chris / Martin

What is see is a small BLACK shape appearing in frame 8

Thanks Robin,

can you possibly rectangle the area in this Bronson Crop scanned from TKOAP Groden?

Thanks a lot.

Martin

[David Andrews]

Deleted. Post on pergola pavillions action moved to new thread.

Edited November 7, 2010 by David Andrews

[Robin Unger]

Chris / Martin

What is see is a small BLACK shape appearing in frame 8

Thanks Robin,

can you possibly rectangle the area in this Bronson Crop scanned from TKOAP Groden?

Thanks a lot.

Martin

[Robin Unger]

It's Sunday morning, and we've just turned the clocks back in the US. I've looked at the stills and brief footage of the Hesters. I know Jack White's studies of Zapruder on the pedestal contra the light in the window openings, and the flap over the elevation, etc.

But -

Has anybody seen this and related videos by the same poster on YouTube, revolving around figures "visible" in the window openings of the west pavillion of the pergola?

I'm asking in the interest of establishing this as a hoax, since the images teased out by colorization seem too good to be true, and not seen in other shots of the pavillion and Zapruder.

However -

The pavillions make great "pillboxes" for hiding a quick-action sniper who could conceal his weapon until needed. Plus it's tempting to ask if Bill Hester is guarding the promenade between the pavillions like a goalie.

See 02:50 - 05:45 in this clip. Previous to this is Bill Newman's statement about a shot from "the I-don't-know-what-you-call-it, the 'mall' behind us." (There are other postings by this person in the page sidebar.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP_QwVE29sA

Rickerby Crop ( Credit: Bill Miller }

Click on thumbnail.

[Robin Unger]

Wiegman 35mm slide (Crop) Credit: John Woods

[David Andrews]

Thanks, guys - I moved the "Pergola Pavillions" query over to its own thread and added more caveats: "The Darnell pergola snippet seems to have been filmed a little too late for the window action purported there, and the placement of the "head" and "hands" of the "gunman" in the isolated still seem suspect."

Sorry to have edited like that.

Has anybody done any computer work on those particular windows that would support or contradict B. L. Blevins (the colorist of the Nix and Darnell frames?)

Edited November 7, 2010 by David Andrews

[Bernice Moore]

Wiegman 35mm slide (Crop) Credit: John Woods

robin; in that one

wiegman frame charles hester still looks like a guy in a bear coat. ..thanks for the frames...best b

Edited November 7, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[John Dolva]

(just a note to members to check the far right second from bottom third set of pergola openings from left pillbox in mind when looking at any imagery of this area)