Dale Myers, Don Thomas, & The Murder Of Officer Tippit

[David Von Pein]

Dale Myers has been exposed as a fraud for his Zapruder film fakery many times over.

Bull.

He lied.

Bull.

He [Myers] called Arlen Specter's necessary fantasy, the Single Bullet Fact. He did, didn't he.

It is a fact. The SBT is the only REASONABLE solution to the double-man wounding to JFK & JBC (as Dale correctly explains HERE).

Your silly "TWO BULLETS WENT IN, NEVER CAME OUT, & DISAPPEARED" theory is not reasonable. In fact, it's ridiculous from every angle.

He looked into the camera and knowingly lied about perhaps the most important single event in the past 50 years of American history. And he did this for money.

Bull.

So, yeah, the guy shot his credibility with me and many others.

I'm sure Dale is devastated by the fact that an Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy monger like Jimbo DiEugenio thinks he has no credibility. (Not.)

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-is-one-to-make-of-jim-dieugenio.html

Edited December 8, 2010 by Kathy Beckett

[David Von Pein]

If it's not the same bullet, and it's not, then the single bullet fantasy is just that--a fantasy.

It doesn't bother DiEugenio in the least that both the WC and HSCA concluded that CE399 (that EXACT bullet) passed through both limo victims.

IOW -- If the chain of possession is so horrible on CE399, why didn't the CONSPIRACY-SEEKING H.S.C.A. come to the same conclusion that you have reached about 399 being a bogus bullet?

Naturally, the HSCA was full of liars and/or crooks too when it came to the SBT and CE399, right Jimbo?

Edited December 7, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

By the way, if you don't know what I mean when I compare Davey to Judah, here is what I mean.

Who cares?

DVP is just recycling disinfo.

DiEugenio spreads crap about Oswald being totally innocent of taking shots at Walker, Kennedy, AND Tippit--and yet he claims that I am the one who is recycling "disinfo".

Jim, remember my weak bladder! Please!

Edited December 7, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

That's right Davey, why should anyone care one iota about what you think[?]

Nor you.

Anyone who can't figure out that Oswald shot Tippit should probably not even be walking around.

But, somehow, to Jimbo, the Tippit murder is a big mystery -- despite a dozen witnesses, from various walks of life (all non-Governmental), who all place Oswald at or near 10th & Patton after 1:00 PM CST on November 22, 1963.

That's called ignoring the best evidence completely, James.

Edited December 7, 2010 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

That's right Davey, why should anyone care one iota about what you think[?]

Nor you.

Anyone who can't figure out that Oswald shot Tippit should probably not even be walking around.

But, somehow, to Jimbo, the Tippit murder is a big mystery -- despite a dozen witnesses, from various walks of life (all non-Governmental), who all place Oswald at or near 10th & Patton after 1:00 PM CST on November 22, 1963.

That's called ignoring the best evidence completely, James.

DVP,

Among your dozen witnesses who saw Oswald in Oak Cliff, do you include Oswald buying the ticket to Dick Clark show at Top Ten? Oswald showing a driver's license with his name on it to buy a beer? Oswald sitting in Mather's car at the Mexican restaurant? The Oswald look a like - Cuban at the Alpha 66 house who was mistaken for Oswald in Oklahoma? And which one was it who killed Tippit?

BK

Edited December 7, 2010 by William Kelly

[David Von Pein]

Bill,

I'm talking, of course, about the dozen witnesses who were in the immediate vicinity of Tenth & Patton at approx. 1:15 PM on Nov. 22 and saw Oswald firing bullets into the body of a policeman and/or saw Oswald leaving that murder scene with gun in hand, dumping shells out of that gun.

I'm not talking about people who think they saw Oswald elsewhere in Dallas, doing things that we know he could not have been doing at about that same time.

Tell me, Bill, do YOU really and truly think that all (or any) of those other "I Saw Oswald" witnesses saw the real LHO or an "imposter" on Nov. 22?

And if it's the latter--then what kind of goofballs were those patsy-framers anyway? They've got Oswald driving a car (when they should know the real LHO couldn't do that--at least not very well anyway), and they've even got him in other CITIES, like Okla. City, when he's being framed for two murders in DALLAS??

The various "mistaken identity" witnesses are fun to play around with, but they obviously were all truly mistaken. Because the real Oswald's whereabouts are accounted for. And you know that--don't you Bill?

Edited December 7, 2010 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

Bill,

I'm talking, of course, about the dozen witnesses who were in the immediate vicinity of Tenth & Patton at approx. 1:15 PM on Nov. 22 and saw Oswald firing bullets into the body of a policeman and/or saw Oswald leaving that murder scene with gun in hand, dumping shells out of that gun.

I'm not talking about people who think they saw Oswald elsewhere in Dallas, doing things that we know he could not have been doing at about that same time.

Tell me, Bill, do YOU really and truly think that all (or any) of those other "I Saw Oswald" witnesses saw the real LHO or an "imposter" on Nov. 22?

And if it's the latter--then what kind of goofballs were those patsy-framers anyway? They've got Oswald driving a car (when they should know the real LHO couldn't do that--at least not very well anyway), and they've even got him in other CITIES, like Okla. City, when he's being framed for two murders in DALLAS??

The various "mistaken identity" witnesses are fun to play around with, but they obviously were all truly mistaken. Because the real Oswald's whereabouts are accounted for. And you know that--don't you Bill?

How do you know they were "mistaken identity" witnesses, and if they were, how come the ones who saw "Oswald" shoot Tippit at 10th & Patton didn't make the same "mistaken identity," especially if there was someone or more than one person who either looked like Oswald or was intentionally impersonating him?

How come all the Tippit murder witnesses, at least in your mind, say they saw the historic LHO, when the others were mistaken, even though Oswald was certainly in the hood at the time?

And who was that guy who said he was Oswald buying jeeps in La., when Oswald was in USSR? And who was that guy who shot at the targets they say was Oswald when Oswald was at the Paines? And who was that guy who called the embassy in Mexico City and claimed to be Oswald? And who was that guy who tried to get the job at the radio stations in Alice, Texas? And who was that guy who drove the Ford down Stemmons? And who was that guy who hitch hiked a ride in the pickup to the TSBD with a rifle? And who was that guy with the foreign wife, little girl and baby who went to the Furniture store looking for a gun shop? And who was that guy named Oswald who had his gun sight addjusted? And who was that guy who signed his name Lee H. Oswald Dallas at the Nuclear Energy Museum in Tennessee?

How can you be so convinced that Oswald shot Tippit and then went to the movie theater when others at the theater say Oswald showed up earlier and bought pop corn? Who was that guy?

How do you differenciate between the positive identifications of Oswald and the bogus ones?

And if the bogus ones aren't a case of mistaken identify but intentional impersonation, what was that all about?

BK

Edited December 7, 2010 by William Kelly

[David Von Pein]

How do you know they were "mistaken identity" witnesses, and if they were, how come the ones who saw "Oswald" shoot Tippit at 10th & Patton didn't make the same "mistaken identity," especially if there was someone or more than one person who either looked like Oswald or was intentionally impersonating him?

Come on, Bill. You're kidding with this question, right?

The answer is, if course -- Because Oswald had the Tippit murder weapon ON HIM when he was arrested, Bill.

Do you want to theorize that an Oswald "look-alike" shot Tippit with S&W Revolver #V510210, and then handed off that gun to the real Oswald less than 35 minutes later in the theater?

That's just crazy talk, Bill.

How come all the Tippit murder witnesses, at least in your mind, say they saw the historic LHO, when the others were mistaken, even though Oswald was certainly in the hood at the time?

Again, the gun. There was only ONE Tippit murder weapon (despite Don Thomas' recent, goofy claims). And that ONE gun was in the real Oswald's hands 35 minutes after Tippit was shot.

This one's a no-brainer, William. Why in the world CTers even consider this topic to be "in doubt" is the bigger mystery.

And who was that guy who said he was Oswald buying jeeps in La., when Oswald was in USSR?

Beats me. But I know it wasn't the same guy who shot J.D. Tippit in Oak Cliff on November 22nd.

And why on Earth would any plotters who were attempting to frame Oswald for some later crime even WANT to do something so silly by having a person pretend to be a guy who they surely knew was thousands of miles away (in Russia) at the time he was being impersonated in the state of Louisiana?

Did these so-called plotters have ANY brains at all?

And who was that guy who shot at the targets they say was Oswald when Oswald was at the Paines?

I think that one of those LHO sightings at the rifle range might have really been Oswald. Although the part about Oswald possibly driving away in a car is a bit hard to buy. That's the part of the story that makes me think it wasn't Oswald. But Malcolm Price and Garland Slack are pretty convincing.

And, I'll be honest, I kinda WANT that guy to be the Real McCoy (i.e., the real Oswald).

Why do I say that?

Because if the real Lee Harvey Oswald was target-shooting at the Sports Drome Rifle Range in September of 1963, it means that the conspiracy theorists are dead wrong about yet another one of their many theories associated with the JFK murder case -- and that's the theory about how Oswald never practiced with a rifle in the months leading up to President Kennedy's assassination.

Frankly, I'd love it if it could be proven that the person who was firing bullets into Garland Slack's paper target was, in fact, Lee H. Oswald. I know that that can never be "proven". But I wish it could be (for the reason I just stated).

And who was that guy who called the embassy in Mexico City and claimed to be Oswald?

That was the real Lee Harvey Oswald, of course.

Given the wealth of documentary evidence that indicates that the real LHO was, in fact, in Mexico City in September and October of 1963, the idea that he called up the embassy in that city during the time he was down there isn't really the mystery of the ages.

Since the topic of Mexico City has arisen in this discussion, let me ask you this question Bill (which is a question that I don't recall anybody ever asking--or reasonably answering--in the past):

If the real Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT in Mexico City in late September and early October 1963, then can you tell me WHERE THE REAL LEE HARVEY OSWALD WAS LOCATED during that time period in question?

As far as I am aware, there is not a single person who has ever stated that they saw Lee Oswald in New Orleans or in Fort Worth or in Dallas or in Muncie, Indiana, or anywhere else on the planet other than Mexico City during that time period when the Warren Commission said he was in Mexico City, Mexico.

How come Marina didn't see her husband during that time period if he really WASN'T in Mexico?

Did he make himself invisible for eight days and nights? Was he hiding somewhere else OTHER than Mexico City during those eight days? Where was LHO during that time if not in Mexico City?

(Continued in next post...)

Edited December 7, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

And who was that guy who tried to get the job at the radio stations in Alice, Texas?

I haven't the foggiest. (And neither do you, Bill.)

And who was that guy who drove the Ford down Stemmons?

I think that could have been the real Oswald too. But, just like all of your other "Oswald Double" examples, it doesn't really matter in the long run. Because the ONE AND ONLY Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK and J.D. Tippit. And his own actions (both before and after the shooting of the President), coupled with the physical evidence of his double-guilt, make that fact abundantly clear.

And who was that guy who hitchhiked a ride in the pickup to the TSBD with a rifle?

That's almost certainly a bogus "sighting", Bill. The fellow who made that claim could have had knowledge of all of those details prior to telling his tale. And the kicker there, IMO, could very well be the words "window shades" (the exact words in Mr. Yates' and Mr. Jones' story), which were also the exact same words spoken by District Attorney Henry Wade during his 11/24/63 press conference after Oswald was shot and killed:

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/09/henry-wade-press-conference-11-24-63.html

And who was that guy with the foreign wife, little girl and baby who went to the furniture store looking for a gun shop?

I have no idea. (And neither do you, Bill.)

But even if it was the real Lee Oswald in that furniture store, please tell me how that fact means diddly when it comes to the evidence in the JFK/Tippit cases?

And if the family was an "Imposter Oswald Family", please tell me why any conspirators setting up Oswald for the President's murder would have wanted to go through some silly charade at a furniture store prior to the assassination? Were the plotters bored that day? And they employed a WHOLE FAMILY to impersonate the Oswald family? It's silly beyond belief.

And who was that guy named Oswald who had his gun sight adjusted?

Dial Ryder's story is almost certainly bogus. Bugliosi has a nice section in "Reclaiming History" which destroys Mr. Ryder.

And who was that guy who signed his name Lee H. Oswald Dallas at the Nuclear Energy Museum in Tennessee?

LOL.

When you get to the Oswald sighting in my hometown of Richmond, Indiana, let me know. Because I want to know if Lee was hiding in my basement on Pearl Street while I was upstairs in my crib. (Don't forget about Ruth Paine's visit to Richmond in September of '63. There's probably a "connection" there for an industrious conspiracy theorist, don't you think?)

http://Ruth-Paine.blogspot.com

How can you be so convinced that Oswald shot Tippit and then went to the movie theater when others at the theater say Oswald showed up earlier and bought popcorn? Who was that guy?

So, let me get this straight, Bill -- you're saying that an "Oswald" person went into the theater prior to the time when Johnny Brewer saw Oswald go into the theater?

Which would mean one of two things (both equally silly):

1.) It was the same "Oswald" who entered the theater on both of those occasions on November 22nd. Which would also mean that Oswald decided to GO BACK OUTSIDE after going into the theater and buying some popcorn, so that he could be seen acting "funny" and "scared" by Johnny Brewer in the lobby area of Brewer's shoe store.

or:

2.) There were two different "Oswalds" who entered the theater that day, which means that the goofy plotters were pulling another scenario like Edwin Lopez has suggested occurred in Mexico and just like John Armstrong has said occurred in the TSBD on November 22 -- with BOTH an "imposter" and the Real McCoy showing up at the same place at the very same time (or pert-near the same time anyway).

If #2 is correct, wouldn't the plotters be a little hesitant to allow an imposter to be seen in the very same place as the guy he was impersonating?

Or didn't the brain-dead conspirators give a damn about potentially blowing their "patsy" plot to bits by risking having an unknown number of possible witnesses seeing TWO Oswalds walking around in the same building at the same time?

How do you differentiate between the positive identifications of Oswald and the bogus ones?

Well, in the case of any sightings of Oswald being somewhere other than near Tenth & Patton at about 1:15 PM CST on 11/22/63, it's very easy to differentiate between a "bogus" sighting and a real sighting. All sightings of an "Oswald" being someplace other than near Tenth Street and Patton Avenue at that time are definitely "bogus" (for the reasons stated previously).

Common sense and geography debunk several of the other bogus sightings -- such as the ones about seeing "Oswald" in cities that we pretty much know he was not in at the time in question.

And if the bogus ones aren't a case of mistaken identity but intentional impersonation, what was that all about?

Well, IMO, that would be a case of the plotters who were supposedly setting up the real Oswald being mighty, mighty STUPID. Because they're having him do things and be in places that only tend to advertise the fact that it's a fake Oswald.

Plus there's the fact, of course, that on Game Day (Nov. 22) all of their detailed "imposter" preparations would be sliding right down the toilet because these incredibly dumb conspirators then decided to shoot JFK with multiple guns in Dealey Plaza (according to 99% of all conspiracy theorists on the planet), thereby assuring that their lone "patsy" could never be proven to be the SOLE ASSASSIN of President Kennedy.

Apparently gray matter was in short supply in the "Let's Frame Lee Harvey Oswald As Our Lone Patsy" Department at Langley in 1963. Wouldn't you agree, William Kelly Jr.?

Edited December 7, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David G. Healy]

Dale Myers has been exposed as a fraud for his Zapruder film fakery many times over.

Bull.

He lied.

Bull.

He [Myers] called Arlen Specter's necessary fantasy, the Single Bullet Fact. He did, didn't he.

It is a fact. The SBT is the only REASONABLE solution to the double-man wounding to JFK & JBC (as Dale correctly explains HERE).

Your silly "TWO BULLETS WENT IN, NEVER CAME OUT, & DISAPPEARED" theory is not reasonable. In fact, it's ridiculous from every angle.

He looked into the camera and knowingly lied about perhaps the most important single event in the past 50 years of American history. And he did this for money.

Bull.

So, yeah, the guy shot his credibility with me and many others.

I'm sure Dale is devastated by the fact that an Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy monger like Jimbo DiEugenio thinks he has no credibility. (Not.)

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-is-one-to-make-of-jim-dieugenio.html

Forgive David Von Pein -- for he knoweth not what he does.... after all he can't varyeth from the Nutter script, he leadeth to stilled waters surround by Bugliosi, Myers, McAdams, Posner nonsense and lies.... why? Begging for a part in HBO's upcoming Bugliosi-Hanks mini-series...

an aside: lately the nutters and trolls (active disinfo agents) are getting bashed on every internet venue... as displayed above in Von Pein's consistent whining... ROTFLMFAO! ! ! Carry on big Davey, where would Bugliosi and RH be without ya! ! ! R-O-T-F-L-M-F-A-O

Edited December 8, 2010 by Kathy Beckett

[David Von Pein]

Yes, as hard as it is to believe, folks, David G. Healy is a grown man in his 50s. Remarkable, isn't it?

[David G. Healy]

Yes, as hard as it is to believe, folks, David G. Healy is a grown man in his 50s. Remarkable, isn't it?

60's moron..... GROW UP, David Von Pein you're not fooling a soul around here....

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Actually, I agree with Myers on this one, up until he drags me into it.

I heard Don Thomas give a COPA talk in Dallas in November 2002, and thought his power point presentation on the acoustics was pretty good.

http://www.parapolit...opa2002gallery/

Then I read the chapter on the Tippit murder that was posted at Mary Ferrell and was quite surprised at how sloppy it is and mish mash of all the CT books that have been written, and confusing things even more by quoting Dale Myers and bringing in the Carl Mather/Collins Radio episode, mixing it in with the other leads, some of which

were run down and explained long ago.

http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1538456

I was dismayed, because I think the acoustical evidence - the echo pattern analysis and fingerprint of the Dealey Plaza acostics can be developed into real forensic evidence, and Thomas should have stuck to the science and the scientific methods that can be used to refine what we know and how we know it.

I recently came across a hard copy of an article I wrote about the acoustic evidence years ago, before the articles and books were written by Thomas and Myers, that I posted here:

http://jfkcountercou...laza-echos.html

Thomas might understand and promote the acoustical evidence accurately, but when it came to the Tippit murder, he was all over the place and seems like he is really speculating off the wall.

While Thomas mentions the Carl Mather episode, he doesn't really drag me into it, like Dale Myers does in his review of a book that doesn't mention me at all.

Why drag me into it? As all of my research and writing on this still stands solid today, and has been developed even further than what Myers cites, and Thomas doesn't mention me at all, why am I part of Myers' review of Thomas' book?

Thomas doesn't even cite my work in his notes - but instead cites the HSCA, which published the information under the title "The Wise Allegation," although Wes doesn't make any allegations, and neither do I.

In fact, most of what Dale Myers writes is true - Thomas seems to speculate a lot about things that are open to be speclated about.

But the Carl Mather/Collins Radio connection has nothing to do with anything that Thomas wrote other than his own bone headed speculations, and Myers inference that it has something to do with me.

The fact that Dale Myers has to drag my research through this mud bath is what startles me, as I certainly don't want Myers to be trying to explain my research and work any more than I want Thomas to do it.

And I have a tape recorded interview with Wes Wise in which he says that he kept the piece of paper Mr. White wrote the license plate tag number, and promised Mr. White that he wouldn't be involved, but the FBI broke Wise's promise and did intimidate White and didn't bother to properly question Mather as he should have been, and neither did CBS, who tried, nor did the HSCA question Mather even though he was given immunity from prosecution to do so.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Mather has passed away before he could be properly questioned by anyone.

While I agree with most of what Myers says about Thomas' chapter on the Tippit murder, I resent Myers for wrongfully associating my research and work with the work of Thomas and now his own, neither of which can be considered encompasing or comprehensive of what is known about the murder of JD Tippit.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Good grief Bill, you make it sound like you didn't even read the article.

Myers quite obviously "drags you into it" because after dealing with Don Thomas's outright deception of the facts of Wes Wise allegation regarding T.F. White and Carl Mather, Myers then has to deal with Thomas' claims that Mather's connection to Collins Radio is "particularly disturbing because Collins Radio was a front for the CIA," which is sourced to Anthony Summers which in turn is sourced to none other than YOU.

So of course Myers deals with your Collins Radio issue.

Stop acting like Myers singled you out for some nefarious reason. The fact is that Myers is reviewing what Thomas wrote and Thomas brought it up.What do you expect him to do, ignore it? God forbid he do that, you'd be all over him about it, as you have in the past..

Excuse me, but my name nor my work, nor the work of Tony Summers is footnoted nor mentioned in Don Thomas' book or chapter on the Tippit Murder. If Myers wants to deal with my research and articles on Collins Radio and its connections to the assassination of President Kennedy or the murder of JD Tippit then let's discuss it, but why entwine it with Thomas' book?

My DC COPA presentation, the publication of the article in Backchannels and my update of the article on the Collins Radio Connections were all written over a decade ago, so why does Myers suddenly bring it up here and now, and confuse it with Thomas' book, which I agree with Myers is not an accurate portrait of the evidence in the murder of JD Tippit.

I'm glad Thomas doesn't cite my work or Summers' work, because I don't think Thomas has a handle on the Tippit murder evidence or witnesses, though I agree with him that the official story is wrong.

But why would I even want to entangle my work with Thomas', who I believe doesn't present the best evidence in the best fashion, or Myers, who I believe intentionally attempts to decieve people with the way he approaches the murder of Tippit and attempts to portray it? Both of these guys are wrong, one being a wildly speculative Conspiracy Theorists and the other being a narrow minded Lone Nutter, both with preconceived notions of what happened at 10th and Patton and false perceptions of who Lee Harvey Oswald was and what he did that day.

I am well prepared to discuss my work, my research and my articles, but I won't do it on Dale Myers false terms, wrongfully implicating me with Don Thomas, who I have appeared with once at a COPA conference but never talked to or communicated with, and trying to ride my work on the back of his speculative thoeories that I disagree with.

My Collins Radio Connection has been out there for over fifteen years and finally Dale Myers gets around to trying to debunk it, using Don Thomas' weak soap box as the place to do it?

No, Good Grief, give me a freakin' break, will ya?

You want to deal with me, and what I wrote? Deal with me.

Dale Myers wants to deal with my work then deal with me, don't go dilly dallying and dancing around Don Thomas.

The very week Dale Myers book came out, I read it and discussed it with a criminal justice class that I was asked to give a talk to about the Kennedy assassination.

I pointed out to the class the very aspects of the book that were intentionally deceptive, then a week later, the class flew to Dallas and I introduced them to Wes Wise,

who took them on a tour of the assassination sites in Dallas, including the El Chino Mexican restaurant in Oak Cliff.

I also met Dale Myers at the Sixth Floor gift shop where he was signing copies of his book, and I asked him about the Wes Wise - White incident,

and when he denied its signifiance, I pulled a copy of Tony Summers' book Not In Your Lifetime - off the shelf - (who says they don't carry conspiracy books?),

and I pointed out the signifance, which he apprently still denies.

That night, with the criminal justice class and Tink Thompson, I attended a program at the 7th Floor with some of the reporters who covered the assassination,

including Wes Wise, who later became a mayor of Dallas.

In any case, Dale Myers has known all about the Collins Radio Connection and my research, and the references in Tony Summers' book for over a decade, and

I don't appreciate him mixing it up with Don Thomas' stuff because I don't think Thomas has a handle on the Tippit murder, and should stick to the scientific and

acoustical evidence, where he is on more firm ground.

So Todd, my old train mate, if you or Dale want to discuss the Collins Radio Connections then lets do it, but don't confuse people any more than they are after reading Dale's book,

or Thomas' work, since I'm not mentioned in either, and I prefer it that way.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/collins-radio-connections/

Bill,

You wrote;

QUOTE ON

"...Excuse me, but my name nor my work, nor the work of Tony Summers is footnoted nor mentioned in Don Thomas' book or chapter on the Tippit Murder..."

QUOTE OFF

Well Bill, I've got news for you despite your claim to the contrary the work of Tony Summers is most certainly footnoted and mentioned in Don Thomas book and chapter on the Tippit murder. And that Summers reference is to one William Kelly.

You are William Kelly, correct?

Here's an excerpt from p.529 of Thomas' Tippit chapter in Hear No Evil:

QUOTE ON

Carl Mather worked at Collins Radio in Richardson, Texas. 134 This information is particularly disturbing because Collins radio was a front for the CIA. This was revealed when a ship leased by Collins radio was used in Operation AMTRUNK, a raid by CIA trained anti-Castro exiles on Cuba.135

QUOTE OFF

Footnote 135 mentioned above is on page 535 of Thomas' book and reads…

QUOTE ON

135: Collins Radio and the REX: in Summers (1998) p.405. Collins Radio was involved in top secret Naval communications systems work through its vice-president, Henry C. Bruton. Bruton and his wife were family friends of the deMohrenschildts who on one occasion brought Oswald to meet the Brutons at their home (Epstein (1978) pp.183-185)

QUOTE OFF

Page 405 of Tony Summer's 1998 book Not In Your Lifetime contains footnote 35 which reads…

QUOTE ON

Note 35: The author is indebted to researcher William Kelly for his summary of this episode. Kelly points out that the owner of the car in question, aside from being a friend of Tippit's, worked for Collins Radio in nearby Richardson, Texas. That same month, Collins Radio had received publicity in connection with its lease of a ship, the Rex, involved in a CIA operation to land commandos in Cuba. Alleged assassin Oswald had been introduced to a Collins executive, retired Admiral Chester Bruton, by George deMohrenschildt. (Research supplied to the author by William Kelley; and see deMohrenschildt references in this book.)

QUOTE OFF

How did you ever miss this?

Todd

Edited December 7, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[William Kelly]

Actually, I agree with Myers on this one, up until he drags me into it.

I heard Don Thomas give a COPA talk in Dallas in November 2002, and thought his power point presentation on the acoustics was pretty good.

http://www.parapolit...opa2002gallery/

Then I read the chapter on the Tippit murder that was posted at Mary Ferrell and was quite surprised at how sloppy it is and mish mash of all the CT books that have been written, and confusing things even more by quoting Dale Myers and bringing in the Carl Mather/Collins Radio episode, mixing it in with the other leads, some of which

were run down and explained long ago.

http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1538456

I was dismayed, because I think the acoustical evidence - the echo pattern analysis and fingerprint of the Dealey Plaza acostics can be developed into real forensic evidence, and Thomas should have stuck to the science and the scientific methods that can be used to refine what we know and how we know it.

I recently came across a hard copy of an article I wrote about the acoustic evidence years ago, before the articles and books were written by Thomas and Myers, that I posted here:

http://jfkcountercou...laza-echos.html

Thomas might understand and promote the acoustical evidence accurately, but when it came to the Tippit murder, he was all over the place and seems like he is really speculating off the wall.

While Thomas mentions the Carl Mather episode, he doesn't really drag me into it, like Dale Myers does in his review of a book that doesn't mention me at all.

Why drag me into it? As all of my research and writing on this still stands solid today, and has been developed even further than what Myers cites, and Thomas doesn't mention me at all, why am I part of Myers' review of Thomas' book?

Thomas doesn't even cite my work in his notes - but instead cites the HSCA, which published the information under the title "The Wise Allegation," although Wes doesn't make any allegations, and neither do I.

In fact, most of what Dale Myers writes is true - Thomas seems to speculate a lot about things that are open to be speclated about.

But the Carl Mather/Collins Radio connection has nothing to do with anything that Thomas wrote other than his own bone headed speculations, and Myers inference that it has something to do with me.

The fact that Dale Myers has to drag my research through this mud bath is what startles me, as I certainly don't want Myers to be trying to explain my research and work any more than I want Thomas to do it.

And I have a tape recorded interview with Wes Wise in which he says that he kept the piece of paper Mr. White wrote the license plate tag number, and promised Mr. White that he wouldn't be involved, but the FBI broke Wise's promise and did intimidate White and didn't bother to properly question Mather as he should have been, and neither did CBS, who tried, nor did the HSCA question Mather even though he was given immunity from prosecution to do so.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Mather has passed away before he could be properly questioned by anyone.

While I agree with most of what Myers says about Thomas' chapter on the Tippit murder, I resent Myers for wrongfully associating my research and work with the work of Thomas and now his own, neither of which can be considered encompasing or comprehensive of what is known about the murder of JD Tippit.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Good grief Bill, you make it sound like you didn't even read the article.

Myers quite obviously "drags you into it" because after dealing with Don Thomas's outright deception of the facts of Wes Wise allegation regarding T.F. White and Carl Mather, Myers then has to deal with Thomas' claims that Mather's connection to Collins Radio is "particularly disturbing because Collins Radio was a front for the CIA," which is sourced to Anthony Summers which in turn is sourced to none other than YOU.

So of course Myers deals with your Collins Radio issue.

Stop acting like Myers singled you out for some nefarious reason. The fact is that Myers is reviewing what Thomas wrote and Thomas brought it up.What do you expect him to do, ignore it? God forbid he do that, you'd be all over him about it, as you have in the past..

Excuse me, but my name nor my work, nor the work of Tony Summers is footnoted nor mentioned in Don Thomas' book or chapter on the Tippit Murder. If Myers wants to deal with my research and articles on Collins Radio and its connections to the assassination of President Kennedy or the murder of JD Tippit then let's discuss it, but why entwine it with Thomas' book?

My DC COPA presentation, the publication of the article in Backchannels and my update of the article on the Collins Radio Connections were all written over a decade ago, so why does Myers suddenly bring it up here and now, and confuse it with Thomas' book, which I agree with Myers is not an accurate portrait of the evidence in the murder of JD Tippit.

I'm glad Thomas doesn't cite my work or Summers' work, because I don't think Thomas has a handle on the Tippit murder evidence or witnesses, though I agree with him that the official story is wrong.

But why would I even want to entangle my work with Thomas', who I believe doesn't present the best evidence in the best fashion, or Myers, who I believe intentionally attempts to decieve people with the way he approaches the murder of Tippit and attempts to portray it? Both of these guys are wrong, one being a wildly speculative Conspiracy Theorists and the other being a narrow minded Lone Nutter, both with preconceived notions of what happened at 10th and Patton and false perceptions of who Lee Harvey Oswald was and what he did that day.

I am well prepared to discuss my work, my research and my articles, but I won't do it on Dale Myers false terms, wrongfully implicating me with Don Thomas, who I have appeared with once at a COPA conference but never talked to or communicated with, and trying to ride my work on the back of his speculative thoeories that I disagree with.

My Collins Radio Connection has been out there for over fifteen years and finally Dale Myers gets around to trying to debunk it, using Don Thomas' weak soap box as the place to do it?

No, Good Grief, give me a freakin' break, will ya?

You want to deal with me, and what I wrote? Deal with me.

Dale Myers wants to deal with my work then deal with me, don't go dilly dallying and dancing around Don Thomas.

The very week Dale Myers book came out, I read it and discussed it with a criminal justice class that I was asked to give a talk to about the Kennedy assassination.

I pointed out to the class the very aspects of the book that were intentionally deceptive, then a week later, the class flew to Dallas and I introduced them to Wes Wise,

who took them on a tour of the assassination sites in Dallas, including the El Chino Mexican restaurant in Oak Cliff.

I also met Dale Myers at the Sixth Floor gift shop where he was signing copies of his book, and I asked him about the Wes Wise - White incident,

and when he denied its signifiance, I pulled a copy of Tony Summers' book Not In Your Lifetime - off the shelf - (who says they don't carry conspiracy books?),

and I pointed out the signifance, which he apprently still denies.

That night, with the criminal justice class and Tink Thompson, I attended a program at the 7th Floor with some of the reporters who covered the assassination,

including Wes Wise, who later became a mayor of Dallas.

In any case, Dale Myers has known all about the Collins Radio Connection and my research, and the references in Tony Summers' book for over a decade, and

I don't appreciate him mixing it up with Don Thomas' stuff because I don't think Thomas has a handle on the Tippit murder, and should stick to the scientific and

acoustical evidence, where he is on more firm ground.

So Todd, my old train mate, if you or Dale want to discuss the Collins Radio Connections then lets do it, but don't confuse people any more than they are after reading Dale's book,

or Thomas' work, since I'm not mentioned in either, and I prefer it that way.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercou...io-connections/

Bill,

You wrote;

QUOTE ON

"...Excuse me, but my name nor my work, nor the work of Tony Summers is footnoted nor mentioned in Don Thomas' book or chapter on the Tippit Murder..."

QUOTE OFF

Well Bill, I've got news for you – despite your claim to the contrary the work of Tony Summers is most certainly footnoted and mentioned in Don Thomas' book and chapter on the Tippit murder. And that Summers reference is to one William Kelly.

You are William Kelly, correct?

Here's an excerpt from p.529 of Thomas' Tippit chapter in Hear No Evil:

QUOTE ON

"Carl Mather worked at Collins Radio in Richardson, Texas. 134 This information is particularly disturbing because Collins radio was a front for the CIA. This was revealed when a ship leased by Collins radio was used in Operation AMTRUNK, a raid by CIA trained anti-Castro exiles on Cuba.135"

QUOTE OFF

Footnote 135 mentioned above is on page 535 of Thomas' book and reads…

QUOTE ON

"135: Collins Radio and the REX: in Summers (1998) p.405. Collins Radio was involved in top secret Naval communications systems work through its vice-president, Henry C. Bruton. Bruton and his wife were family friends of the deMohrenschildt's who on one occasion brought Oswald to meet the Brutons at their home (Epstein (1978) pp.183-185)"

QUOTE OFF

Page 405 of Tony Summer's 1998 book Not In Your Lifetime contains footnote 35 which reads…

QUOTE ON

"Note 35: The author is indebted to researcher William Kelly for his summary of this episode. Kelly points out that the owner of the car in question, aside from being a friend of Tippit's, worked for Collins Radio in nearby Richardson, Texas. That same month, Collins Radio had received publicity in connection with its lease of a ship, the Rex, involved in a CIA operation to land commandos in Cuba. Alleged assassin Oswald had been introduced to a Collins executive, retired Admiral Chester Bruton, by George deMohrenschildt. (Research supplied to the author by William Kelley; and see deMohrenschildt references in this book.)"

QUOTE OFF

How did you ever miss this?

Todd

So the footnote in Tony Summer's book that references my research and 1994 DC COPA abstract is more significant than anything else that Thomas wrote in his book that was published this year?

I am truely honored, and humbled that after over fifteen years, Dale Myers wants to address my work, though I'm dismayed that he would do it while reviewing and attacking somebody else's book.

But first, I just want to reiterate that I am not going to argue or even talk about anything Myers writes about Thomas before he brings up my name because I don't think Thomas has a good handle on the Tippit murder evidence although he shows quite clearly that it doesn't fit together, and the official story is most certainly wrong, and that Olsen is a questionable suspect and probably a Right Copper that Ruby had been dealing with for years. I also think that Thomas clearly establishes that the police radio transmissions contain significant evidence, the point I think he started out to do before he got tangled up with the other evidence in the case.

For instance, Thomas tries to confuse the Dealey Plaza Rambler with a Pontiac station wagon in Oak Cliff that they put an APB out on, and that I recall reading some police report from Grand Prarie or some suburb where a cop stopped the Pontiac and identified the passengers. And Thomas apparently didn't know of or doesn't know of Richard Bartholomew's published and posted article on the history of the Rambler and the fact that it was photographed in Dealey Plaza and that others besides Craig saw it. And Thomas didn't know about my work on Collins because he would have cited it instead of the HSCA reports and Summers.

So Thomas is not familiar with the most up to date work on either the Pontiac, the Rambler or Collins, so why is he writing about them?

As for Myers, most of what he says about Thomas may be true, but the first thing he attacks Thomas on is wrong, and that is JD Tippit was not named Jefferson Davis Tippit because Tippit filled out an offical form that used that name, something Dale Myers should know. It is true that Tippit preferred to be called "JD" and was named "JD" by his father, but Myers' assertion that it "didn't mean anything," is not true either since the father said he was named after a book he read and liked, "JD of the Mountains."

Now maybe "JD of the Mountains" was named after Jefferson Davis or maybe not, but it certainly means something and not nothing, as Myers has claimed.

So if we can separate what Thomas says from what Myers says he says and what they referenced to a book that footnotes me, then maybe we can discuss that aspect of the case, if you really want to.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Edited December 7, 2010 by William Kelly

[David Von Pein]

The FBI and the DPD had to get him [Lee Oswald] out of that Rambler and onto McWatter's [sic] bus.

TIME OUT FOR A REALITY BREAK HERE!! (Thank you.)

Surely Lee Farley MUST realize how totally silly he sounds when he purports such total nonsense.

Because why on Earth would the FBI and/or the DPD feel the need to jump through so many hoops regarding Lee Harvey Oswald--even if we make the kooky assumption that they WERE wanting to frame him for JFK's murder?

IOW, why not just say that Oswald took the cab to his roominghouse, and skip the unnecessary bus "story"?

By adding a story about a bus, the "plotters" (FBI/DPD/Mother Teresa, et al) now only add more complications and hazards to the "Let's Frame Oswald" plot that so many of you conspiracy-happy folks like to think really took place on November 22nd.

Via a phony bus story, the authorities now have to have more and more people in their hip pockets to tell lies for them (mainly Mary E. Bledsoe in this bus instance), PLUS they've got to plant a phony bus transfer in Oswald's pocket after he's arrested.

And please note that bus driver Cecil McWatters apparently resisted the FBI's and Mother Teresa's attempts to place Oswald on his bus, because McWatters refused to make a positive identification of Oswald.

The evidence we have tells us he [LHO] wasn't on the bus. The evidence tells us he wasn't in the cab.

Good God, what crap you're spewing here, Lee.

Of course, the exact OPPOSITE is the truth regarding Lee Harvey Oswald's bus and cab rides on November 22nd, 1963 -- i.e., the evidence that exists demonstrates beyond ALL reasonable doubt that Oswald was, in fact, a passenger on Cecil McWatters' bus AND a passenger in William Whaley's taxicab on 11/22/63.

But it's always nice to know that conspiracy theorists like Lee Farley are still hard at work at revising the true facts surrounding JFK's tragic murder.

Well, maybe "nice" is the wrong word to use there -- "pathetic" is a more appropriate term for what people like Farley are doing to the evidence in the JFK and Tippit cases. (And "sickening", too.)

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/william-whaley.html

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/222OswaldsBusTransfer.gif

Edited December 7, 2010 by David Von Pein