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William Kelly

Col. Robert Jones

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http://jfkcountercou...houston_05.html

Col. Robert Jones on the Oswald Dossier

HISTORY MATTERS

http://www.history-m...jones_0002a.htm

EXECUTIVE SESSION

THURSDAY, APRIL 20, 1978 US House of Representatives

Subcommitee on the Assassination of John F. Kennedy of theSelect Committee on Assassinations. Washington D.C. Room 1310, Longworth House Office Building.

Counsel for HSCA: B. Genzmen, H. Goldsmith;

Representatives Dodd, Fithian and Sawyer.

Highlights of the HSCA Executive Session Testimony of COL. ROBERT JONES:

MR. JONES: Upon my assignment to 112, I was appointed the operations officer for the entire group. The 112 MI group had seven regions under its operational control which encompassed a five-state area: Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, New Mexico and Oklahoma.

I was directly responsible for all counterintelligence, operations background investigations, domestic intelligence and any special operations in this area.

I directed the operations for seven regions and reported, through my group commander, to the Security Division of Fourth Army, Deputy Chief of Staff Intelligence.

We had a domestic intelligence function there that we collected information from various local, state and county law enforcement agencies or intelligence divisions. We maintained filings and built an index card file on individuals who may have been going into Mexicoand coming back.

HSCA COUNSEL: When did the name Lee Harvey Oswald first come to your attention?

MR. JONES: I would estimate the middle of 1963. I cannot be specific, though. Mr. Chairman, because I spent too many years, but I would believe it was the middle of 1963 when he was arrested in New Orleans, and I had liaison with the New Orleans police and through our regional office in New Orleans, they provided me with his arrest, his activities and we carded him under both the name of A. J. Hidell and Lee Harvey Oswald.

HSCA: Based on this information, what actions did you take?

MR. JONES: Well, he was of interest to us because of theanti-U.S. government position he was taking, his pro-Cuban activities as far as passing out literature and making speeches on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,and I think we also had an interest in local agencies to get any information we could develop, to get information on a place of residence.

Additionally, we requested a file, or availability of afile, from the Central Records facility. This file was forwarded to us an wecompleted our dossier from information from the Central Records facility and from the local agency check and from the activities of his while he was in New Orleans.

HSCA: Are you saying that you maintained a file on LeeHarvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: Yes. I did have a file on Lee Harvey Oswald.

HSCA: Did this file contain a personality profile on Oswald?

MR. JONES: The personality profile, as I call it, is as much information as we have to develop on an individual, or without doing a comprehensive background investigation, and from this Central Records facilityfile, local agency check and from his activities, we considered that thepersonality profile.

HSCA: Were you personally responsible for the maintenance ofthe file, or were you personally involved in collecting any of this information?

MR. JONES: My position, as Chief of Operations, or Operations Officer for the Group, all reports would come over my desk and Iwould read them and indicate disposition of the documents.

Under my supervision, we had a domestic intelligence officer who would continue to screen the files and prepare the dossiers and the necessary cards and file them in his section, which was called domestic intelligence, or DI.

HSCA: Did the file on Oswald ever contain a summary report?

MR. JONES: The file only contained information that I just have given you. His activities in New Orleans.

HSCA: Let me rephrase the question, Colonel Jones. Did you,at any time, ever write a summary report or and "after action" report on LeeHarvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: Yes. I do not refer to a summary report. After the assassination of President Kennedy, I did write an after action report which covered all of the report, the actions that I took, the people that I notified, the time and so forth, and it was prepared as an after action report, and maintained in the Lee Harvey Oswald file.

HSCA: Based upon the information that you gathered on LeeHarvey Oswald, what conclusions did you reach as to this individual?

MR. JONES: As to the individual's character, as to his trustworthiness? I considered the man as a possible security risk or as a person that we should have an interest in from the review of his dossier. The fact that he had defected, gone to Russia,had traveled in Russia, and according to the file, had married a Russian national, and was permitted to return to the United States.That was sufficient enough for him to be of interest to any intelligence operating agency.

HSCA: Would you characterize Oswald as a possible counter-intelligence threat?

MR. JONES: I considered him to be a counter-intelligence threat at any time that he would have been in the area that I was responsible for operations.

HSCA: On the basis of your experience and knowledge of theLee Harvey Oswald file, would you say that the other American intelligenceagencies would have had an interest in Oswald and would have characterized himas a possible security or counter-intelligence threat?

MR. JONES: I would not speak for any intelligence agency as a factual report to this committee, but if I were assigned an operation in any intelligence agency, I would think that a man who had traveled to Russia would certainly be debriefed and be a potential source of information and based upon an investigation that we might conduct on the findings of this and the people considered reliable or targets in areas that we had an interest, he would be a potential source.

HSCA: Based on your expertise and intelligence experience, could you tell us which agency would have debriefed Oswald upon his return from the Soviet Union, if, in fact, that were ever done?

MR. JONES: From my experience, the CIA wouldhave debriefed him at one time and, upon return to the United States, the internal security division ofthe FBI would probably debrief him.

HSCA: To your knowledge, did the CIA ever debrief Lee Harvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: I have no personal knowledge of it.

HSCA: To your knowledge, did Military Intelligence ever debrief Lee Harvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: The Military Intelligence of my group did not debrief him.

HSCA: Based upon the information which you gathered on Oswald and also based on your experience, would you say that Lee Oswald's file was the type of file which should have been destroyed at some point in time.

MR. JONES: The Oswald file, since it pertained to theassassination of the President of the United States, in my opinion, should have been retained for reference or for historical purposes.

HSCA: If you were still Operations Officer in charge of theOswald file at a time when destruction of these types of files was being considered, under what circumstances would the file have been destroyed?

MR. JONES: I think I would have made a strong case to retain the file with my superiors and then if I were directed to destroy the file, I would have asked them to direct me to do so in writing so that it would be amatter of record.

HSCA: Colonel Jones, I next would like to ask you about the liaison operations between military intelligence and the Secret Service.

MR. JONES: At any time that the President, or Vice President, or anyone at the Secret Service had responsible for physical protection, would be scheduled to arrive in the area, they would contact our Group Headquarters or our Regional Headquarters and we would augment their force, if necessary, to provide some type of physical coverage, that is, a manon the street, or an observation of people, vehicles, communications, or any other information or support that we could provide.

But in every case, to my knowledge, our people were under the control and supervision of the Secret Service. We never assume responsibility for the President's protection.

HSCA: Would you characterize these operations as supplementing the manpower of the Secret Service

MR. JONES: Yes, I would.

HSCA: With specific reference to President Kennedy's trip toTexas, would you relate to the committee your connection with liaison operations with the Secret Service?

MR. JONES: We provided a small force – I do not recall how many, but I would estimate between eight and twelve – during the President's visit to San Antonio, Texas; and then the following day, on his visit to Dallas, the regions also provided additional people to assist, that is additional people from Region 2.

HSCA: Did these people which you provided include sources who were in contact with various local law enforcement agencies?

MR. JONES: The people who were in contact with either the intelligence division or the State Police or the Police Department or the FBI or Secret Service, were reporting either directly to me or to the Regional Operations officers.

The information would be provided to the Secret Service if necessary, or to the FBI, but it was normally channels through the region or to the group headquarters. This information would then be made available to the requesting investigating agency.

For More:

http://jfkcountercou...houston_05.html

Edited by William Kelly

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MR. JONES: Upon my assignment to 112, I was appointed the operations officer for the entire group.

According to Larry Hancock's research on the 112th, Jones was lying. He was never the 112th's operations officer. And the committee didn't know this? How did Jones know it would be safe to lie about it? And if he lied under oath about something as basic as his own position with the 112th, why should we believe anything else that he said?

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MR. JONES: Upon my assignment to 112, I was appointed the operations officer for the entire group.

According to Larry Hancock's research on the 112th, Jones was lying. He was never the 112th's operations officer. And the committee didn't know this? How did Jones know it would be safe to lie about it? And if he lied under oath about something as basic as his own position with the 112th, why should we believe anything else that he said?

I agree Ron, but what is the purpose of the deception?

Certainly he isn't the same as all the other liers we know.

What did he say that he was really lying about, and why?

He most certainly was a Colonel. He most certainly was attached to the 112. He most certainly phoned the Oswald file info to FBI within hours of Oswald's arrest.

And the leads he gave as to where the after action and personality files would be located - Fort George Meade, certainly sounds like its worth checking out.

Do you have a copy of Larry's report on 112, or provide a link to it on line? I know it was on his CD. I have his book, but not the CD.

Thanks,

BK

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"HSCA: To your knowledge, did the CIA ever debrief Lee Harvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: I have no personal knowledge of it.

HSCA: To your knowledge, did Military Intelligence ever debrief Lee Harvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: The Military Intelligence of my group did not debrief him."

These are carefully worded non-denial denials.

Edited by John Navin

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Bill,

Here's a link to Larry's article, which is also on the CD. According to the article, Jones was the 112th's intelligence officer (G2), not operations officer (G3). If that's true, what would be the purpose of this glaring "mistake" in his testimony? I have no idea.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=223377

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Bill,

Here's a link to Larry's article, which is also on the CD. According to the article, Jones was the 112th's intelligence officer (G2), not operations officer (G3). If that's true, what would be the purpose of this glaring "mistake" in his testimony? I have no idea.

http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=223377

Well, the things he describes doing is what the Intelligence offier does - takes in reports, shares info with others, writes reports, etc.

I don't think it is such a big a thing as Larry makes it out to be, especially since he was promoted to Commander of the entire Group shortly thereafter.

It is significant however, that they did not engage in security for the president as Jones maintains, and Col. Reich, who Prouty mentions by name, confirms that that was not their duty.

There's a lot of important info in Jones' testimony as well as in the testimony of Powell and Coyle, but the biggest thing in my mind is the fact that Jones, whether the Op Officer of Intel Officer,

knew the name and rank of Capt. Gannaway, but not Whitemyer, both US Army Reserve officers, and both involved in the motorcade and events of the day.

The emphasis so far has been on the 112th, while I think more attention should be given to the 488th, since this Reserve unit inclues the guy who gave the 112th the bogus info that Oswald

was a card carrying Communist and had defected to Cuba, info that was passed on immediately, and apparently without verification, to the Florida Strike Force at Fort McDill.

"You don't know what's happening here, do you, Mister Jones"

BK

Edited by William Kelly

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Bill,

Here's a link to Larry's article, which is also on the CD. According to the article, Jones was the 112th's intelligence officer (G2), not operations officer (G3). If that's true, what would be the purpose of this glaring "mistake" in his testimony? I have no idea.

http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=223377

Well, the things he describes doing is what the Intelligence offier does - takes in reports, shares info with others, writes reports, etc.

I don't think it is such a big a thing as Larry makes it out to be, especially since he was promoted to Commander of the entire Group shortly thereafter.

It is significant however, that they did not engage in security for the president as Jones maintains, and Col. Reich, who Prouty mentions by name, confirms that that was not their duty.

There's a lot of important info in Jones' testimony as well as in the testimony of Powell and Coyle, but the biggest thing in my mind is the fact that Jones, whether the Op Officer of Intel Officer,

knew the name and rank of Capt. Gannaway, but not Whitemyer, both US Army Reserve officers, and both involved in the motorcade and events of the day.

The emphasis so far has been on the 112th, while I think more attention should be given to the 488th, since this Reserve unit inclues the guy who gave the 112th the bogus info that Oswald

was a card carrying Communist and had defected to Cuba, info that was passed on immediately, and apparently without verification, to the Florida Strike Force at Fort McDill.

"You don't know what's happening here, do you, Mister Jones"

BK

I believe it is possible some new information can be gleaned from what is included below,

the Col Robert E. Jones document from the day of the assassination, is probably one of the

earliest documents I have ever seen.

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA)/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (staff notes)

180-10147-10166

Mr. Jones believes that one person with whom he would have spoken to was FBI Special Agent In Charge J Gordon Shanklin. He may have talked with the Dallas

FBI office more than one time that day......

In addition Jones believes that this “after action report” included information obtained from reports filed by the eight to twelve military agents

who performed liason functions with the Secret Service in Dallas on the day of the assassination.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=33133&relPageId=104

FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File Section 1

At 3:15 p.m. November 22, 1963, Lt. Colonel Robert E. Jones,

Operations Officer 112th INCT Group, San Antonio, advised

that through news broadcasts they had learned that Lee Harvey

Oswald had been arrested after killing a Police Officer in a theater

and that Oswald was a suspect in President Kennedy’s death.

Jones stated Oswald reportedly is married to a Russian woman

and has traveled extensively in Russia. When arrested today

in Dallas, according to information Col. Jones has,

Oswald was carrying a selective service card bearing the name

of Alex Hidell. Jones stated that INTC records here reflect reference

to an A. J. Hidell who reportedly has been distributing “Hands Off

Cuba” literature.

Records of INCT in New Orleans reflect that Oswald has been arrested

in New Orleans for distributing pro-Cuban literature.

The records of the Corpus Christi INTC Group contained the following

newspaper articles:

Corpus Christi Caller 1 November 1959

“EX-MARINE DEFECTS TO RUSSIA

“Texan Asks Russia to Become Citizen

“Moscow A.P.

“An ex-Marine from Texas told the U.S. Embassy

Saturday, that he was applying for Soviet citizenship.

“’I have made up my mind, I’m through’ said Lee

Harvey Oswald, 20, of Fort Worth, Texas slapping his passport

on the desk.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=57690&relPageId=185

the 105-82555 document continues to at least the page/URL below.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=57690&relPageId=188

Would it be unreasonable to assume that if there were 8 to 12 agents

as referenced, standard operating procedure for a criminal investigation

would be to provide all 8 to 12 agent reports for the record.

I believe that would be more enlightening than having 1,000

pages of documents regarding the history of Hosty's memo's, [HSCA era]

35. ADMIN FOLDER-D4.1: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, CONGRESSIONAL INQUIRY UNIT ADMINISTRATIVE

FOLDER ENTITLED "REPORTS TO ATTORNEY GENERAL RE: HOSTY NOTE"

RIF#: 124-10364-10001 (11/20/75) FBI#: 62-117290-ADMIN FOLDER

36. ADMIN FOLDER-D4.2: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, CONGRESSIONAL INQUIRY UNIT ADMINISTRATIVE

FOLDER ENTITLED "REPORTS TO ATTORNEY GENERAL RE: HOSTY NOTE"

RIF#: 124-10364-10002 (07/29/75) FBI#: 62-117290-ADMIN FOLDER

37. ADMIN FOLDER-D4.3: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, CONGRESSIONAL INQUIRY UNIT ADMINISTRATIVE

FOLDER ENTITLED "REPORTS TO ATTORNEY GENERAL RE: HOSTY NOTE"

RIF#: 124-10364-10003 (10/01/75) FBI#: 62-117290-ADMIN FOLDER

or cursory mention of Oswald's pubic hair, [Warren Commission] but that's just me.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=145526

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I have just discovered that it did cover New Oreans, i found this at MFF from the HSCA final report.

http://www.maryferre...absPageId=69290

Dave

Thanks Robert, and Dave, yes Jones' territory covered six states including Louisiana and the 112th had a Regional Office in New Orleans that had sources within the New Orleans PD, just as the Dallas office had contacts in the DPD.

Jones says in his testimony that he learned of Oswald's use of the Hidell alias from the reports of the New Orleans office.

And that news report from Corpus Christi, Texas that Robert cites is interesting. How did the reporter know that Oswald threw his passport down on Snyder's desk, unless they were in the room or talked directly with someone who was in the room?

BK

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I have just discovered that it did cover New Oreans, i found this at MFF from the HSCA final report.

http://www.maryferre...absPageId=69290

Dave

Thanks Robert, and Dave, yes Jones' territory covered six states including Louisiana and the 112th had a Regional Office in New Orleans that had sources within the New Orleans PD, just as the Dallas office had contacts in the DPD.

Jones says in his testimony that he learned of Oswald's use of the Hidell alias from the reports of the New Orleans office.

And that news report from Corpus Christi, Texas that Robert cites is interesting. How did the reporter know that Oswald threw his passport down on Snyder's desk, unless they were in the room or talked directly with someone who was in the room?

BK

For those who are interested, Peter Dale Scott's Deep Politics & The Death of JFK has a very pertinent section on the Army Intelligence aspect of the assassination, on pages 257-262; I would suggest starting on page 256 myself......

It's hard when you have a large book collection, to have more than one edition of a certain book, I say that because an earlier edition of Larry Hancock's Someone Would Have Talked, has, if I remember correctly, a very good section re Army Intelligence, although I am not sure about that. If I am correct it is not in the latest edition, which is the only one I have.

You would be surprised how sometimes, through the use of the more reliable authors additional context and information can be gleaned.

On a final couple of notes, I would like to know if anyone knows whether Colonel Robert E Jones is still alive, or deceased.

I may be able to provide more clarification regarding his career, if there is an obituary available.

The final aspect of all of this is kind of a shot in the dark, but, I realize some persons may get nauseous hearing me go on about genealogy and the JFK assassination's cast of characters, but the law of averages is on my side that sooner or later, there is going to surface an example of this particular issue is going to materialize, and I will be vindicated, there are just too many examples of possibilities for there to be nothing.

On that note, I am placing this here, I hope someone realizes there is significance in this aspect of the "who" in the context

of what I am speaking of.

GENERAL DAVID C. JONES

Retired July 1, 1982.

General David C. Jones is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Department of Defense, Washington, D.C. In this capacity, he serves as the senior military adviser to the president, the National Security Council and the secretary of defense. Through the commanders of the unified and specified commands, he is also responsible for executing the decisions of the National Command Authorities regarding worldwide readiness and employment of combat forces of the United States Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps.

Drawing from a widely varied career, General Jones brings to his position a wealth of experience and knowledge of national security affairs, the diverse U.S. Defense Establishment, and our defensive alliances with other nations. His assignments have included operational and command positions in strategic, tactical, and training units, as well as service in staff positions with major headquarters in the United States and overseas.

Prior to his current appointment, General Jones served four years as chief of staff of the U. S. Air Force, responsible for administering, training and equipping a worldwide organization of men and women employing the world's most advanced defense systems. Concurrently, he was a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

In combat, the general was assigned to a bombardment squadron during the Korean War and accumulated more than 300 hours on missions over North Korea. In 1969, he served in the Republic of Vietnam as deputy commander for operations and then as vice commander of the Seventh Air Force.

His intimacy with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization alliance and its complex multinational defense structure is based on a range of assignments that cover the spectrum of planning and operational responsibilities. Having served as inspector, operator, planner and commander in chief of United States Air Forces in Europe, he has dealt with every facet of the diversified missions of military forces committed to the defense of Europe. Concurrent with duty as commander in chief, USAFE, he was commander of the Fourth Allied Tactical Air Force and led the way toward establishing the integrated air headquarters in NATO's Central Region, Allied Air Forces, Central Europe.

The general was born in Aberdeen, S.D. He graduated from high school in Minot, N.D., in 1939 and attended the University of North Dakota and Minot State College until the outbreak of World War II. He entered the Army Air Corps, beginning aviation cadet training in April 1942, and received his commission and pilot wings in February 1943. A graduate of the National War College, the general was awarded an honorary doctorate of humane letters degree from the University of Nebraska at Omaha in 1974, an honorary doctorate of laws degree from Lousiana Tech University in 1975, and an honorary doctorate of humane letters degree from Minot State College, Minot, N.D., in 1979.

He was appointed chief of staff, U. S. Air Force on July 1, 1974 and received his appointed as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on June 21, 1978.

http://www.af.mil/in....asp?bioID=5971

there is another bio sketch of General David C Jones, which was of more interest.

David C Jones (1921- ), air force officer

Born on July 21, 1921 in Aberdeen South Dakota, Jones attended the University of North Dakota and then Minot State College from 1939 until shortly

after the entry of the United States into World War II. He then enlisted in the army and in April 1942 entered aviation training school at Roswell Field, New Mexico.

In February 1943 he was designated a pilot and commissioned a second Lieutenant. He was an aviation instructor at various Army Air Forces training schools until the end of the war, advancing to first lieutenant in February 1944. From August 1945 to May 1948 he was stationed in Japan, receiving promotion to captain in April of 1946. During 1949 he attended various air force technical schools. From January 1950 to May 1953, he was attached to the 19th Bombardment Squadron, with which he flew a large number of combat missions over North Korea; promoted to major in February 1951, he rose to commander of the squadron before returning to the United States. During 1953-1954 he commanded the 22nd Air-Refueling Squadron and then the 33rd Bombardment Squadron at March Air Force Base, California, advancing to lieutenant colonel in June 1953. From January 1955 to July 1957 he was aide to Gen. Curtis E. LeMay, commander of the Strategic Air Command. Promoted to Colonel in April 1957, Jones was attached to the 93rd Bombardment Wing at Castle Air Force Base, California, in 1957-1958 and after graduating from the National War College in 1960 he was assigned to duty at air force headquarters in Washington D.C. until 1964. After a few months as commander of the 33rd Tactical Fighter Wing at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, Jones was named inspector general at the headquarters of the United States Air Forces in Europe (USAFE) in Wiesbaden, Germany in October 1965, recieving promotion to brigadier general (temporary) in December. During January-June 1967 he was temporarily chief of staff of USAFE, and from June 1967 to January 1969 he was deputy chief of staff of the Seventh Air Force under Gen. George S Brown, based in South Vietnam, and in June-July of that year he was vice commander of the Seventh. In August 1969, promoted to temporary lieutenant general, he became commander of the Second Air Force at Barksdale Air Force Base, Louisiana. In April 1971 he returned to USAFE as vice-commander, becoming commander with the rank of temporary general in September of that year. On the elevation of Gen. Brown to the chairmanship of the Joint Chief of Staff in July 1974, Jones was appointed to succeed him as chief of staff of the air force by President Richard M. Nixon. A much decorated

officer, Jones brought to that post a highly varies experience, although he was little known outside military circles.

page 206 Webster's American Military Biographies copyright 1978

I certainly can't speak for anyone else, but if he is a close relative of Colonel Robert E Jones, I would certainly like to know.

Edited by Robert Howard

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The things I like the most about Jones and his testimony is his straight forward manner, his explaination of their file system and standard operating procedures, - all of which checks out as far as I can tell, and his conclusions regarding Oswald - he was a potential security risk and/or source/informant, based on his defection and residency in Russia, and that Oswald couldn't have pulled off the assassination alone.

There's no discussion at all as to whether Oswald was a psycho, deranged or lone nut, but instead, they assume that Oswald, based on his military file that has since been destroyed, but which Jones read, Oswald fit an operational profile that should have rated him an official debriefing, and the attention of security agencies, and not because he was crazy.

The filing system that Jones describes is apparently the same system that was used by the Secret Service Protective Research Section (as described by G. Blaine in TKD) and by Win Scott at the Mexico City CIA HQ and by Mary Ferrell when she began her assassination files -

1) Index Card with name - directs to Personality File - Lee Harvey Oswald

2) Index Card with alias - directs to Personality File - A. J. Hidel, O.H, Lee, to Lee Harvey Oswald

3) Personality File on Subject - Lee Harvey Oswald

4) Incident File - Assassination of President Kennedy

5) Agents reports from the field to Region 2 Commander

6) After Action Report from 112 Group Commander/Ops/Intel Officer

As Mary Ferrell and her friend also did, when an incident occurs that requires an after action report, such as the Kennedy assassination, another file would be started, a chronology file, that puts everything in a sequencial order.

Jones is kind of perplexed by the fact that Oswald's personality file as well as the other files have been destroyed, as he wanted to be able to refer to the after action report he says that he prepared on the activities of the 112th in Dallas.

While Jones contradicts the alledged "stand down" order that Fletcher Prouty first brought up that Prouty says he obtained from an enlisted man with the 112th who called him on the phone.

Although Jones says that he had eight to twelve guys in Dallas, in plain clothes, working with SS, there's no record of them among the SS files, and two of the men he mentions - Powell and Coyle, both denied they were on security that day, Powell saying he was off duty and Coyle says he was working on the gun heists with Hosty and Ellsworth, not security.

So Fletcher is debunked by Jones, and then rehabilitated by Larry Hancock (thanks Larry).

Fletcher also mentions another Colonel as the ultimate source of the "Stand Down" order - Col. Reich - which would be Col. Rudolph Reich, who says that his unit never had any security duties, responsiblities or training. That just wasn't there job.

Colonels are interesting people. They're go-to guys, who are supposed to get the jobs they are assigned done, and done right.

And there's certainly enough Colonels in the 112th Intel Group, Region 2 - Lt. Col. Roy Pate, Dept. Lt. Col. Edgar Boyd, Col. Willard W. Mize, Lt. Col. Stanley Green were others, besides Col. Robert E. Jones and Col. Rudolph Reich.

I too would like to know if Jones is dead or alive, and if dead, can we get an obit for him?

I don't think this is our guy. He's at the Pentagon in early sixties.

ttp://www.fortcampbell.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505

But I think this might be him:

www.rt66.com/~ korteng/SmallArms/31RCT-PrincipalOfficers.htm

And / or

http://www.vineland.org/history/vinvet/K.I.A.%20veterans/rjones.jpg

And then there's the after action report on the Dealey Plaza operation that should read like this:

http://www.31stinfan...hosin/Jones.pdf

Edited by William Kelly

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The things I like the most about Jones and his testimony is his straight forward manner, his explaination of their file system and standard operating procedures, - all of which checks out as far as I can tell, and his conclusions regarding Oswald - he was a potential security risk and/or source/informant, based on his defection and residency in Russia, and that Oswald couldn't have pulled off the assassination alone.

There's no discussion at all as to whether Oswald was a psycho, deranged or lone nut, but instead, they assume that Oswald, based on his military file that has since been destroyed, but which Jones read, Oswald fit an operational profile that should have rated him an official debriefing, and the attention of security agencies, and not because he was crazy.

The filing system that Jones describes is apparently the same system that was used by the Secret Service Protective Research Section (as described by G. Blaine in TKD) and by Win Scott at the Mexico City CIA HQ and by Mary Ferrell when she began her assassination files -

1) Index Card with name - directs to Personality File - Lee Harvey Oswald

2) Index Card with alias - directs to Personality File - A. J. Hidel, O.H, Lee, to Lee Harvey Oswald

3) Personality File on Subject - Lee Harvey Oswald

4) Incident File - Assassination of President Kennedy

5) Agents reports from the field to Region 2 Commander

6) After Action Report from 112 Group Commander/Ops/Intel Officer

As Mary Ferrell and her friend also did, when an incident occurs that requires an after action report, such as the Kennedy assassination, another file would be started, a chronology file, that puts everything in a sequencial order.

Jones is kind of perplexed by the fact that Oswald's personality file as well as the other files have been destroyed, as he wanted to be able to refer to the after action report he says that he prepared on the activities of the 112th in Dallas.

While Jones contradicts the alledged "stand down" order that Fletcher Prouty first brought up that Prouty says he obtained from an enlisted man with the 112th who called him on the phone.

Although Jones says that he had eight to twelve guys in Dallas, in plain clothes, working with SS, there's no record of them among the SS files, and two of the men he mentions - Powell and Coyle, both denied they were on security that day, Powell saying he was off duty and Coyle says he was working on the gun heists with Hosty and Ellsworth, not security.

So Fletcher is debunked by Jones, and then rehabilitated by Larry Hancock (thanks Larry).

Fletcher also mentions another Colonel as the ultimate source of the "Stand Down" order - Col. Reich - which would be Col. Rudolph Reich, who says that his unit never had any security duties, responsiblities or training. That just wasn't there job.

Colonels are interesting people. They're go-to guys, who are supposed to get the jobs they are assigned done, and done right.

And there's certainly enough Colonels in the 112th Intel Group, Region 2 - Lt. Col. Roy Pate, Dept. Lt. Col. Edgar Boyd, Col. Willard W. Mize, Lt. Col. Stanley Green were others, besides Col. Robert E. Jones and Col. Rudolph Reich.

I too would like to know if Jones is dead or alive, and if dead, can we get an obit for him?

I don't think this is our guy. He's at the Pentagon in early sixties.

ttp://www.fortcampbell.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505

But I think this might be him:

www.rt66.com/~ korteng/SmallArms/31RCT-PrincipalOfficers.htm

And / or

http://www.vineland....rans/rjones.jpg

And then there's the after action report on the Dealey Plaza operation that should read like this:

http://www.31stinfan...hosin/Jones.pdf

Thanks Bill, for those links.

Although namebase.org isn't updated as much as would be desired, the site has

these listings for Col. Robert Jones

JONES ROBERT E (COL)

Vietnam 1968

* Valentine,D. The Phoenix Program. 1990 (252, 261)

JONES ROBERT E (LT COL)

* Duffy,J. Ricci,V. The Assassination of John F. Kennedy. 1992 (256)

* LaFontaine,R.& M. Oswald Talked. 1996 (179-80, 282)

* Marrs,J. Crossfire. 1990 (310-1)

* Russell,D. The Man Who Knew Too Much. 1992 (173-4)

* San Antonio Express-News 1993-11-21 (14A)

* Scott,P.D. Deep Politics. 1993 (258)

* Summers,A. Conspiracy. 1981 (91-3)

Since I don't have Douglas Valentine's book on the

Phoenix Program, I can't say for sure, but I would

think it is the same person, with a promotion.

I haven't been able to get to the other books.

The San Antonio Express-News article

probably would provide some new information.

I have the Ricci/Duffy book, it contains

the HSCA analysis of Col Robert Jones

the same document can be found at

http://www.jfklancer.com/RobertJones.html

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On 2/6/2011 at 11:30 PM, William Kelly said:

The things I like the most about Jones and his testimony is his straight forward manner, his explaination of their file system and standard operating procedures, - all of which checks out as far as I can tell, and his conclusions regarding Oswald - he was a potential security risk and/or source/informant, based on his defection and residency in Russia, and that Oswald couldn't have pulled off the assassination alone.

There's no discussion at all as to whether Oswald was a psycho, deranged or lone nut, but instead, they assume that Oswald, based on his military file that has since been destroyed, but which Jones read, Oswald fit an operational profile that should have rated him an official debriefing, and the attention of security agencies, and not because he was crazy.

The filing system that Jones describes is apparently the same system that was used by the Secret Service Protective Research Section (as described by G. Blaine in TKD) and by Win Scott at the Mexico City CIA HQ and by Mary Ferrell when she began her assassination files -

1) Index Card with name - directs to Personality File - Lee Harvey Oswald

2) Index Card with alias - directs to Personality File - A. J. Hidel, O.H, Lee, to Lee Harvey Oswald

3) Personality File on Subject - Lee Harvey Oswald

4) Incident File - Assassination of President Kennedy

5) Agents reports from the field to Region 2 Commander

6) After Action Report from 112 Group Commander/Ops/Intel Officer

As Mary Ferrell and her friend also did, when an incident occurs that requires an after action report, such as the Kennedy assassination, another file would be started, a chronology file, that puts everything in a sequencial order.

Jones is kind of perplexed by the fact that Oswald's personality file as well as the other files have been destroyed, as he wanted to be able to refer to the after action report he says that he prepared on the activities of the 112th in Dallas.

While Jones contradicts the alledged "stand down" order that Fletcher Prouty first brought up that Prouty says he obtained from an enlisted man with the 112th who called him on the phone.

Although Jones says that he had eight to twelve guys in Dallas, in plain clothes, working with SS, there's no record of them among the SS files, and two of the men he mentions - Powell and Coyle, both denied they were on security that day, Powell saying he was off duty and Coyle says he was working on the gun heists with Hosty and Ellsworth, not security.

So Fletcher is debunked by Jones, and then rehabilitated by Larry Hancock (thanks Larry).

Fletcher also mentions another Colonel as the ultimate source of the "Stand Down" order - Col. Reich - which would be Col. Rudolph Reich, who says that his unit never had any security duties, responsiblities or training. That just wasn't there job.

Colonels are interesting people. They're go-to guys, who are supposed to get the jobs they are assigned done, and done right.

And there's certainly enough Colonels in the 112th Intel Group, Region 2 - Lt. Col. Roy Pate, Dept. Lt. Col. Edgar Boyd, Col. Willard W. Mize, Lt. Col. Stanley Green were others, besides Col. Robert E. Jones and Col. Rudolph Reich.

I too would like to know if Jones is dead or alive, and if dead, can we get an obit for him?

I don't think this is our guy. He's at the Pentagon in early sixties.

ttp://www.fortcampbell.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505

 

But I think this might be him:

www.rt66.com/~ korteng/SmallArms/31RCT-PrincipalOfficers.htm

And / or

http://www.vineland.org/history/vinvet/K.I.A.%20veterans/rjones.jpg

And then there's the after action report on the Dealey Plaza operation that should read like this:

http://www.31stinfan...hosin/Jones.pdf

 

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Steve - This thread is not about Ellsworth, but full of interesting info.

I've done some searching on Ellsworth and haven't found  the most complete version yet. I'll be posting something soon.

 

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