John McAdams and Judyth Baker

[Pamela Brown]

A new post on my Finding Judyth blog...sometimes it takes me a while to gather my thoughts...

https://findingjudyth.blogspot.com/2018/03/i-have-couple-of-questions-for-judyth.html

[Joe Bauer]

On 2/19/2018 at 5:32 PM, Pamela Brown said:

Yes she did.  I don't know Debbee but would not put her into the same category of schemer that I would Judyth.  It is my thinking that Judyth created her 'love story' the moment she saw Lee's face on tv after his arrest, so telling Debbee could have been part of Judyth's plan to make her look credible.  Leaving out the bioweapon, however, I think was a big mistake.

I would really like to see or read a much longer interview of JVB's sister Debbee.

[Pamela Brown]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

I would really like to see or read a much longer interview of JVB's sister Debbee.

There is a video interview on one of Judyth's DVDs. I'll see if I can find it.  I agree, Debbee is a big help to Judyth's credibility.  

Something I find truly puzzling about Judyth is that she has ample documentation that she and Lee worked at Reilly Coffee at the same time and were fired at about the same time. So it would be logical to think she and Lee met there.  And, in that light, I would think she would have dragged out every witness from Reilly she could find to support her assertion that she and Lee had some kind of a connection there.  But she did not do that. I can't imagine why...

 

[Joe Bauer]

20 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

There is a video interview on one of Judyth's DVDs. I'll see if I can find it.  I agree, Debbee is a big help to Judyth's credibility.  

Something I find truly puzzling about Judyth is that she has ample documentation that she and Lee worked at Reilly Coffee at the same time and were fired at about the same time. So it would be logical to think she and Lee met there.  And, in that light, I would think she would have dragged out every witness from Reilly she could find to support her assertion that she and Lee had some kind of a connection there.  But she did not do that. I can't imagine why...

 

Pamela, I have kept up with almost all your forum postings since I have been a member myself.

You were always the resident expert on the JFK limo and related subjects.

I also recall your many postings about JVB.

I totally understood when you turned direction regards your take on her.

JVB is a tough one to figure.

What reading I have done on her has me torn ... but just not enough to totally dismiss her.

She's VERY smart for sure. 

I sense she is extremely strong willed and overbearing at times. Obviously too strong for many.

Her sister Debbee ( I really don't know a lot about her ) seems much more practical and down to earth and not overbearing. Yet, this sister has stood by her sister Judyth throughout  her extremely controversial saga.

If true, the Reiley Coffee connection between Baker and Lee Oswald by itself is enough for me to keep at least some interest in the entire JVB story, even if 80% to 90% of it is questionable to very questionable.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Michael Griffith]

I would love to believe Judyth Baker's story. I read Haslam's book Dr. Mary's Monkey, and I read McAdams' article on her. My only big objection to her account is her claim that when Oswald went to Mexico City, he was carrying a biological weapon to kill Castro. That strikes me as far-fetched. Beyond that, her account just strikes me as too pat, as too good to be true. I do not categorically reject it as impossible, but I am skeptical of it.

[Ron Bulman]

McAdams and Baker, two peas in a pod? 

[Joe Bauer]

5 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

I would love to believe Judyth Baker's story. I read Haslam's book Dr. Mary's Monkey, and I read McAdams' article on her. My only big objection to her account is her claim that when Oswald went to Mexico City, he was carrying a biological weapon to kill Castro. That strikes me as far-fetched. Beyond that, her account just strikes me as too pat, as too good to be true. I do not categorically reject it as impossible, but I am skeptical of it.

Reasonable.

 

[Ron Bulman]

30 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

McAdams and Baker, two peas in a pod? 

Were they both mockingbirds financed by the 90's version of it to counter the movement created by Oliver Stone's JFK and the ARRB?  A legitimate question?

[Joe Bauer]

Maybe Anna Lewis is not the best of eye-witnesses to believe in her claim of physically seeing Lee Oswald and JVB together.

However, I am intrigued by a specific part of her Oswald/ JVB together tale.

She shares a very negative feeling she had about JVB.

That JVB was stuck up acting. Like she was better than others like her.

If Anna Lewis is going to make up this Oswald/JVB together story, it's very curious to me that she would throw in something that was seemingly so off-the-wall yet personally felt regards JVB.

Felt in an offended way. 

This specific negative take on JVB by Anna Lewis fits in with countless other personal interaction comments years later about JVB giving off arrogant vibes.

If Anna Lewis was making up her Oswald/JVB together story her throwing in this specific personal feeling negative take on Baker just seems too illogical in a scheme to convince others to believe it.

Anna Lewis didn't come across to me as clever enough to think that adding this one specific personal feeling negative take on JVB would sway others to think...ah haaa ... she ( Lewis ) must be telling the truth!

Edited September 4, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Pamela Brown]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

McAdams and Baker, two peas in a pod? 

I have wondered about that myself. When I was posting on aaj about Judyth, McAdams tried to destroy any credibility I might have had left.  He refused to acknowledge my position, which was that I was keeping an open mind to what she had to say.  He insisted that I 'believed' her, and was no more than a mindless zombie. 

It seemed that Judyth and McAdams were bookends, just bouncing me from one to the other.  

At this point, nothing would surprise me...

 

[Joe Bauer]

From what I have recently read and wasn't well read enough to know earlier, JVB was extremely lonely in New Orleans. Her husband had basically abandoned her by willfully asking for and being given an employment position out to sea and away from JVB for months.

Don't they call such actions on the part of one spouse toward another "alienation of affection?"

Judy V. was young, healthy, lonely and alone in a big city, seeking friendship, companionship and even intimacy.

I could easily see her jumping into the arms of another young man who she described upon first meeting as so clean cut, polite and interesting in his shared liking of Russian language, music etc.  A young man not bad looking by her standards. Someone who showed her some attention and maybe even concern? 

If JVB never had any interaction with Oswald...then by all accounts she had no social interaction with any other man in New Orleans. 

She was all by herself her entire time there? Not even a girl friend or two?

[Pat Speer]

I met Judyth once. She was quite anxious for me to believe her story. While I suspect its possible she knew Oswald for a brief time, and that she may even have flirted with him or some such thing, I find the rest of her story implausible.

Of course, in this case, I am not entirely unbiased. Once James F embraced her and took up her cause, the odds of my believing her were effectively nil. if you're the real deal you shouldn't get in bed with a carnival huckster. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Pamela Brown]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Maybe Anna Lewis is not the best of eye-witnesses to believe in her claim of physically seeing Lee Oswald and JVB together.

However, I am intrigued by a specific part of her Oswald/ JVB together tale.

She shares a very negative feeling she had about JVB.

That JVB was stuck up acting. Like she was better than others like her.

If Anna Lewis is going to make up this Oswald/JVB together story, it's very curious to me that she would throw in something that was seemingly so off-the-wall yet personally felt regards JVB.

Felt in an offended way. 

This specific negative take on JVB by Anna Lewis fits in with countless other personal interaction comments years later about JVB giving off arrogant vibes.

If Anna Lewis was making up her Oswald/JVB together story her throwing in this specific personal feeling negative take on Baker just seems too illogical in a scheme to convince others to believe it.

Anna Lewis didn't come across to me as clever enough to think that adding this one specific personal feeling negative take on JVB would sway others to think...ah haaa ... she ( Lewis ) must be telling the truth!

I spoke with Anna Lewis when I was involved with Judyth's camp. By the time I talked with her, she had been pretty much threatened into silence.  She supported Judyth's statement that she had seen Judyth and Lee at Mancini's, the restaurant where she worked. But she said it in a rote manner.  

I did not know what to think.

[Pamela Brown]

45 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

From what I have recently read and wasn't well read enough to know earlier, JVB was extremely lonely in New Orleans. Her husband had basically abandoned her by willfully asking for and being given an employment position out to sea and away from JVB for months.

Don't they call such actions on the part of one spouse toward another "alienation of affection?"

Judy V. was young, healthy, lonely and alone in a big city, seeking friendship, companionship and even intimacy.

I could easily see her jumping into the arms of another young man who she described upon first meeting as so clean cut, polite and interesting in his shared liking of Russian language, music etc.  A young man not bad looking by her standards. Someone who showed her some attention and maybe even concern? 

If JVB never had any interaction with Oswald...then by all accounts she had no social interaction with any other man in New Orleans. 

She was all by herself her entire time there? Not even a girl friend or two?

I do agree that Judyth's husband was of no help to her. What he was doing to Judyth was not unlike how Marina was treating Lee. I had no problem considering that Lee and Judyth met and were completely smitten with each other.  Were it not for Judyth's hostile behavior to me, and to others, I might have believed her.

In just about every conversation on the EF about Judyth I pushed her credentials at Reilly Coffee at the same time as Lee.  But I got no support from Judyth on that.   

[Pamela Brown]

21 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

I would love to believe Judyth Baker's story. I read Haslam's book Dr. Mary's Monkey, and I read McAdams' article on her. My only big objection to her account is her claim that when Oswald went to Mexico City, he was carrying a biological weapon to kill Castro. That strikes me as far-fetched. Beyond that, her account just strikes me as too pat, as too good to be true. I do not categorically reject it as impossible, but I am skeptical of it.

I see that as a big problem too.  Judyth and d Haslam tried to meld their stories, but everything fell apart with the bioweapon in a Dewars jar.  

Haslam created an alternative reality, and Judyth walked right into it...