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Judyth Baker

John McAdams and Judyth Baker

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2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

VB has preyed on the need for info and closure with a good number of people falling for it.  Not only falling for it but vehemently defending her right to be so obtuse with the evidence....

Everything she's offered to corroborate, doesn't.

When I first read her work, I thought it was very good creative writing. A version - not as good of course - of what Gore Vidal would do with certain known facts of Burr or Lincoln. I think there is something to Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, Doctor Oschner, INCA, LHO and Estelle Edison's experience. i"m not sure if they are, or aren't, part of the Oswald project. But I doubt Ms Baker's credibility in any of it that matters.

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David

JVB and Oswald visited Jackson on 31 Aug 1963. The article provided indicates most of the sightings of Oswald were in Oct 1963, but nothing on 31 Aug 1963. It's possible he could have been in Jackson with JVB.

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no George, it's not.

I'm curious... what are you using as supporting documentation for that conclusion?

Specifically, that is was our Oswald and Judyth...  so far it's just Ed...   and JVB...

What does she offer as proof of this trip?  Her own recounting of the event?   Maybe go back to the beginning of the thread and separate the wheat from the shaft you've been served....

:up

STATEMENT: Lee Oswald and I together made a trip to and from Jackson and its nearby mental hospital within 72 hours AFTER Lee's trip to Clinton and then to Jackson's mental hospital in the company of Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw, and a hospital aide. These were two distinct trips. Indeed, people have tried to conflate these two distinct trips into one, thereby providing 'arguments' that the testimonies of witnesses who saw Lee Oswald with a woman in an old, battered car AND the testimonies of groups of witnesses who saw Lee Oswald with Shaw and Dave Ferrie in a black Cadillac could not BOTH be correct. In fact, two distinct and separate trips WERE involved, and there is No conflict when all facts are accounted for. The errors in people's heads came via trying to make a single, three-day trip, a situation in which the highly busy Clay Shaw could not, of course, have participated. However, Shaw was able to take off part of ONE day. Please read my book for more information.

Judyth knows only second-hand what happened in Clinton, because she wasn't there. (63)

STATEMENT: Lee told me what happened during the trip to Clinton and from there to Jackson's mental hospital.

Oswald, Dave Ferrie, and Clay Shaw were in Clinton, Louisiana, on

(probably) August 23, 1963. (64)

CORRECTION: This was my first estimated date, when asked to give a

reasonable date-- and at first I just guessed. But there were problems with it, mainly because I remembered leaving very soon after that date for Florida, and August 23rd was simply too early to be the correct date. We are talking about a date from thirty-five years earlier that I was trying to recall. When I finally looked at various records in my possession, which I reviewed with Dr. Platzman, Irealized the date had to be at least a week later. When I finally looked up the date of the march on Washington, I then knew I was about a week off in my original estimated date.

Oswald, Dave Ferrie, and Clay Shaw were in Clinton, Louisiana, on August 29, 1963. The date is easily determined because it was the same day Martin Luther King, Jr., led his famous march on Washington, D.C. (65)

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David

Please wait a minute. You're all over the place.

JVB says three days after Oswald's trip to Clinton with Shaw and Ferrie, she travelled to Jackson with Oswald. If the trip to Clinton ocurred on 29 Aug 1963 then her trip to Jackson was about 31 Aug 1963-1 Sep 1963. She has a good memory.

Her proof for the trip are Mary Morgan and McGeehee.

Edited by George Sawtelle

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Andrej

Nitrogen, either liquid or solid, is not needed to preserve the cancer outside the body.

Cancer cells can survive outside the human body as long as they are kept in a well-aerated liquid medium containing all the nutrients they need and the medium is replaced regularly to get rid of waste products.

According to JVB, Oswald was given a new batch of cancer cells in Houston which gave the cancer cells two more days of shelf life. One day from NO to Houston and then two days from Houston to Mexico City. Did not need to replace the medium until Mexico City.

I provided an article that indicates low level radiation can suppress the immune system. I think you are correct 100 rem is too much radiation for a x-ray machine. It's more like one rem. I would consider 1 rem low level radiation.

Edited by George Sawtelle

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5 hours ago, Robert Harper said:

When I first read her work, I thought it was very good creative writing. A version - not as good of course - of what Gore Vidal would do with certain known facts of Burr or Lincoln. I think there is something to Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, Doctor Oschner, INCA, LHO and Estelle Edison's experience. i"m not sure if they are, or aren't, part of the Oswald project. But I doubt Ms Baker's credibility in any of it that matters.

I agree.  Judyth's saga was originally a creative writing project under Prof. Joe Reihl at Loyola, I think.  That is her talent -- creative writing.  She puts herself into the middle of situations and imagines what others would say or do.  

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3 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

David

Please wait a minute. You're all over the place.

JVB says three days after Oswald's trip to Clinton with Shaw and Ferrie, she travelled to Jackson with Oswald. If the trip to Clinton ocurred on 29 Aug 1963 then her trip to Jackson was about 31 Aug 1963-1 Sep 1963. She has a good memory.

Her proof for the trip are Mary Morgan and McGeehee.

No, it's not 'proof'.  That is Judyth twisting evidence.  If she had any actual proof she would have run to Garrison to vindicate Lee in 1967.  

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7 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Andrej

Nitrogen, either liquid or solid, is not needed to preserve the cancer outside the body.

Cancer cells can survive outside the human body as long as they are kept in a well-aerated liquid medium containing all the nutrients they need and the medium is replaced regularly to get rid of waste products.

According to JVB, Oswald was given a new batch of cancer cells in Houston which gave the cancer cells two more days of shelf life. One day from NO to Houston and then two days from Houston to Mexico City. Did not need to replace the medium until Mexico City.

I provided an article that indicates low level radiation can suppress the immune system. I think you are correct 100 rem is too much radiation for a x-ray machine. It's more like one rem. I would consider 1 rem low level radiation.

It is all right, George. You brought the nitrogen idea. 

Edited by Andrej Stancak

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Andrej

Who cares who brought it up.

THE FACT IS CANCER CELLS CAN SURVIVE OUTSIDE THE HUMAN BODY IF GIVEN ENOUGH OXYGEN, NUTRIENTS AND WASTE ELIMINATION. 

So Oswald could have transported the cancer weapon in the thermos.

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Pamela

Vindicated Oswald? 

She's tried to vindicate him now and very few believe her. Nothing she would say to Garrison in 1967 would have vindicated Oswald. Coming forward in 1967 would have placed her family in jeopardy and herself in the crosshairs, something she was trying to avoid.

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9 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Andrej

Who cares who brought it up.

THE FACT IS CANCER CELLS CAN SURVIVE OUTSIDE THE HUMAN BODY IF GIVEN ENOUGH OXYGEN, NUTRIENTS AND WASTE ELIMINATION. 

So Oswald could have transported the cancer weapon in the thermos.

George:

sure not, however,  you wish to believe that this is possible, and I will not interfere.

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https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-cancer-cells-survive-outside-the-body

Edited for clarity. 

" If left completely alone, cancer cells, like any other cells, die on exposure to air. If cells are in the proper medium and all cellular needs are provided for, it’s pretty indefinite.

 The cells  referred to are the HeLa cells. These are cancer cells taken in 1951 from a woman named Henrietta Lacks. Ms. Lacks was an African-American woman with cervical cancer and tissue was collected from her, without her knowledge or her permission, for reasons of research. This was 66 years ago and her HeLa cells are still thriving, dividing and still being used for study. I hope you understand the original HeLa cells have long since divided and redivided and so on and so on and so on. The original cells are no more but the cell line itself is, for all intents and purposes, immortal."

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Ray:

I understand that the cells in the case you describe have been maintained in a lab environment in which pH, temperature, osmolality etc. are continuously controlled. This is nothing like a thermos style which Mrs. Baker tried to sell.

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Andrej

In the lab the cancer thrives in cultures. The thermos simulate the cultures. Oxygen is released into the medium by chemicals, nutrients (sugar) provide the food for the cells and replacement of medium periodically gets rid of the waste. pH can be established before the medium is placed in the thermos. The pH will probably change but the change will be within a tolerable range for survival of the cells. Osmolality??????? 

What am I missing? 

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George:

you are missing a lot.

Temperature: it will slowly rise in a thermos, on a bus,  in warm weather conditions. As a result, the cells will basically boil. You can have live cells in culture flasks for few days but the flasks will be kept at room temperature, some 22 degrees Celsius. 

pH: depends on the metabolism of cells. The waste products of metabolism is CO2 which inevitably creates H2CO3 by interacting with water, and this is an acid. So, you need to exchange the medium regularly else the pH will be continuously dropping  (becoming more acidic) until the cell metabolism stops because the cell would not work at low pH.

Mechanical insults: you carry the cells in a medium in a thermos in a standard bag, on a bus. This means that the content of the thermos will  be shaking continuously causing many cell to damage their membranes as they hit the wall of the thermos. The cells die and spill their content into the medium which will increase the osmolality, and they will start losing water, shrink and die. To protect the cells in a culture flask, it would have to have some kind of gel lining around the inner surface of the flask. Which Judyth's thermos did not have.

Osmolality: Lee received something like glucose, some sort of nutrient to add it to the medium. Judyth had it for a fish bowl. The problem is that you do not have fish in a thermos and the cells will not eat big chunks of Lee's crackers which he drops into the thermos. That cracker or whatever it was would dissolve in the medium and since the cracker contains solid organic and inorganic particles, it will increase the total concentration of particles in the medium relative to water. As a result, the water from the inside of cells will start to be sucked off out of the cells, the cells will shrink, their membranes would rupture, and the cell would die. 

Time: the cells fate would need to be sustained for the entire trip to Mexico City, then to the contact person, then to Havana, then pretreat Castro with X-rays, small or large, repeated over many days. The thermos would contain a stinking soup at this stage as it all will take maybe 3 weeks?

 

Havana side: who from several Castro's trusted and checked doctors would kill his/her patient? They all had to follow the Hippocratic Oath to which every doctor has to swear. Besides, how to convince Castro to ruin completely his immune system with many repeated X rays and then let himself inject a chicken broth - this is how Judyth described it when it was fresh.

George, I suggest you contact a medical doctor in your environment and ask him or her if it is possible to kill someone by injecting mice cancer cells into a human with an idea to cause a fast growing cancer. The person may die but not because of cancer but because of sepsis caused by the chicken broth being injected into the bloodstream. Although I gladly offer my limited knowledge to describe the problems, you do not believe me anyway. This is why I would like you to deal with these problems on your own. 

 

Edited by Andrej Stancak

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