Jump to content
The Education Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Greg Parker

Neely St Questions

Recommended Posts

Thanks John. Looks like the hammer and nails missed a window!

Film of placard:

I have tracked down relatives of the folks who filmed the N.O. altercation

The family is almost all deceased.

I may need help tracing a Sharon Doyle Cosgrove in Spokane Washington

She was last on 153rd St(?) in Portland OR.

The back story:

I called and talked to Larry Doyle a relative of James Patrick Doyle (jim).

Larry said Jim his wife Charleen (Wilson) and son Jim Jr. have all passed away. The only survivor and the holder of the original pictures and film from the New Orleans incident between Cubans and Lee Oswald. The family were the ones who saw and captured the placard on their camera.

I believe this is very important to get the footage!!!!!!!

I will try to locate the Wilson's who were with the Doyle's family in NO and also watched the incident happen.

On another note, is there info on Victor Antonio Solez(?) of the 'Dallas Mexican Mafia'

Or James Arthur Jackson's sister Nancy Jackson who was a 'employee' of the Copa Room?

Thanks All and Happy New research Year,

Ed

Thank you Ed, for the reminder about what real research looks like.

I think what you are doing is incredibly important and am glad to see it's continuing.

Can you provide more potentially identifying information about VAS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='Greg Parker' date='05 January 2012 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1325755202'

Thank you Ed, for the reminder about what real research looks like.

I think what you are doing is incredibly important and am glad to see it's continuing.

Can you provide more potentially identifying information about VAS?

Thanks Greg!

Name may be Solis or Solez.

It seems he was MAFIA and involved in things like fake ID's, possible narcotics trafficking, loan sharking, etc.

He was in the Dallas area in the 60's.

He MAY be part of the Mexican Mafia and could get you anything you needed for a price, or loan you as much money as you needed (no limit) as they had huge profits from smuggling marijuana across the border into the US.

As I related previously the grow operations were along the border and were also working farms. They would grow, dry and bundle the bails for shipment by truck into Texas. One shipment was dried in large chicken coups. The feathers from the chickens got into the bails. This haul was all loaded onto a truck and driven across the border. The shipment was intercepted and the police seized it. It was sent to be destroyed. Only thing was the stuff showed up on the street with the chicken feathers in it.

I can only speculate that the shipment wasn't so much intercepted as delivered to the authorities.

I will try and get some more details on VAS.

I would like to find something more solid on the Placard.

Other witnesses:

Sharon Cosgrove (nee Doyle) was 11 yrs old in 63' so she should be 60 y o now.

I don't have much on the Wilson's

Matt & Mrs. Wilson, Daughter Marsha (62 yo) and son Donald (60 yo)

Evidence:

Lieutenant Martello (NOPD) states he witnessed the Placard placed into evidence against Lee Oswald.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Martello.pdf

I can find no such evidence as of yet...

Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a chat with James Jackson and found out that Victor Antonio Solez/Solis was a deceased individual and the mafia wanted to use this as an alias for James so he could work for them. They would have given him all the ID's and documents using VAS's info.

I asked if the folks were Mexican Mafia and JAJ said "yes sir."

James related some info about Neely as he just went by to look. He said there was a backhoe beside the apartment and when he looked in the windows everything had been wrecked inside and pushed towards the windows. There are brand new tumbler locks on the doors.

He seems to recall the place was furnished or partially furnished when he rented it.

He said most places were furnished as folks who rented didn't have much.

James drove a 1952 Chevy four door maroon and black on top while at Neely.

He still doesn't think there was a hole up into the attic. I asked if there was would he have used it for storage and James said no he didn't have enough stuff to fill the apartment as he was just starting out in life after the service.

I asked how the meter reader would have been able to see inside and he said there was a stairway on the out side that connected to the second floor balcony and that was his entrance. I had him check pictures as I thought the place was as pictured in 63/64 WC and DPD photos. I may need to verify this with other tenants. He seems to think that is where the meter reader would have gone to look inside. But I see only the inside stairwell as in the photos as the front entrance. James stated he did not use an inside stairwell but an outside front stairway to the balcony and the second story when he was there.

Need to verify this, but yes that could explain the meter reader situation.

So anyways VAS is an ALIAS the mob had 'available' for a new hire.

Ed

Edited by Ed LeDoux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, All,

This link shows the meters on the side. They are lowered and conduit jogs around area where the lower side window has been covered over or removed.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/1000-01-01/webextra13-2.php

If James Jackson is correct then other changes were made either after he moved or possibly when Mr. George took it over. He may have had to do some work on it as James said it was pretty rickety when he was there. James was vivid in his description of the place when he lived there. The alley that ran beside the apt. Where things were located, etc. James was so interested he drove up to Dallas to see it again and was glad he did. So was I as it helps us speak the same language about the property. It has yet to be verified but all else fits the meter reader tale.

Thanks,

Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ed. I think top story ceiling lighting demands a manhole in the ceiling to reach this for an electrician. (as well as any other services that may need to access this. Prob a suggestion could be that the gable window could be an access point but that would mean electrical problems only occur when it's not raining. A better idea is that it provides light. I suppose it could also indicate a usable space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ed. I think top story ceiling lighting demands a manhole in the ceiling to reach this for an electrician. (as well as any other services that may need to access this. Prob a suggestion could be that the gable window could be an access point but that would mean electrical problems only occur when it's not raining. A better idea is that it provides light. I suppose it could also indicate a usable space.

Excellent John.

Yes the gable vent could be thee, or an alternate, way to access the "attic" if there is no apartment Scuttle Hole.

Upon reviewing the Lancer photos of Neely, among others, I find the scuttle hole would need to be centered under the Roof Dormers (front or rear) or very center of apt. If the scuttle hole was in say the 'small room' closet off to the side of the house then there would be no space to climb up into the attic as the roof pitch is too shallow. I don't see a place for or an indication of such a ceiling penetration in the photos we have by Tom Jones.

On another note:

The mail (pamphlets etc) sent by FPCC to Lee, I believe, was not picked up by him before he left Neely for NO. That is if we are to believe he was still at Neely or even 'lived' there. I say "lived" there because he may have dumped Marina there for a week or two while he was elsewhere. I think more scrutiny of the dates regarding the mail are necessary. See John Newman's book Oswald and the CIA pages 290 through 297ish:

http://books.google.com/books?id=tfJBrSFNUNkC&pg=PA294&lpg=PA294&dq=214+west+neely+street&source=bl&ots=KP3_3mcjXU&sig=9ppgBs0zbPM7hIy2bIeAzELCWbA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k9IIT4a6LqiqiQLV5biPCQ&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCTgo#v=onepage&q=214%20west%20neely%20street&f=false

If Lee did not take the Placard, pamphlets and flyers/handouts to NO then he had to make more or new ones. Is this where a Kerry Thornley pick up at the printers comes into play?

Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hadn't looked at those interior photos, Ed. Interesting. Often these scuttle holes are put in a bathroom/toilet or in a hall way. Seldom where one spends a lot of time or where decor matters. The ceiling of none of these places are shown so obviously nothing conclusive can be said there. I think the strongest point is that the scuttle hole must have been there somewhere and as you say within a central portion depending on the distance between the top of the ceiling structure and the roof structure is proper for the purpose of access. The dormer(s?) would extend the possible access area. It's funny, often these constructions are not unique. Other differently located buildings by the same company with some variation are found. So afa figuring out this is not so difficult. What it might mean is really the question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

{...]

Lieutenant Martello (NOPD) states he witnessed the Placard placed into evidence against Lee Oswald.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Martello.pdf

I can find no such evidence as of yet...

Ed

Ed,

Why do you say "the placard" (singular) when Martello clearly said "some placards" (plural)?

When Martello says that he "...observed some placards marked as evidence (and) saw that they were signed by the Fair Play for Cuba [Committee]...", I think he was talking about LHO's handbills or flyers, not cardboard (or whatever) signs. I think he simply used the wrong word, "placards", instead of "flyers" or "handbills".

Maybe LHO didn't have any signs at all with him when he was arrested. Which would explain why you can't find them in evidence, Ed. And if LHO did have a sign with him, it makes sense that he would have had only one sign with him because passing out flyers and holding more than one sign would have been very awkward, to say the least. Even holding just one sign and passing out flyers would have been awkward.

I think Martello was referring to LHO's flyers or handbills (plural), but unfortunately used the word "placards" instead.

--Tommy :)

Edited by Thomas Graves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

{...]

Lieutenant Martello (NOPD) states he witnessed the Placard placed into evidence against Lee Oswald.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Martello.pdf

I can find no such evidence as of yet...

Ed

Ed,

Why do you say "the placard" (singular) when Martello clearly said "some placards" (plural)?

When Martello says that he "...observed some placards marked as evidence (and) saw that they were signed by the Fair Play for Cuba [Committee]...", I think he was talking about LHO's handbills or flyers, not cardboard (or whatever) signs. I think he simply used the wrong word, "placards", instead of "flyers" or "handbills".

Maybe LHO didn't have any signs at all with him when he was arrested. Which would explain why you can't find them in evidence, Ed. And if LHO did have a sign with him, it makes sense that he would have had only one because passing out flyers and holding more than one sign would have been ridiculously awkward, to say the least. Even holding just one sign and passing out flyers would have been awkward.

I think Martello was referring to LHO's flyers or handbills (plural), but unfortunately used the word "placards" instead.

--Tommy :)

bump

Edited by Thomas Graves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ed,

I appreciate you adding me as a friend today, particularly because I feel like I may have caused you all some unnecessary work.

Whatever I saw about the "placard in the attic", it was in the FBI field office file and it was after the assassination, not before.

The next time I'm in DC (which should be this year), I will go to the file at the Archives and find it for you.

If anyone knows anyone living in DC, maybe they could do it sooner than that!

Bill

{...]

Lieutenant Martello (NOPD) states he witnessed the Placard placed into evidence against Lee Oswald.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Martello.pdf

I can find no such evidence as of yet...

Ed

Ed,

Why do you say "the placard" (singular) when Martello clearly said "some placards" (plural)?

When Martello says that he "...observed some placards marked as evidence (and) saw that they were signed by the Fair Play for Cuba [Committee]...", I think he was talking about LHO's handbills or flyers, not cardboard (or whatever) signs. I think he simply used the wrong word, "placards", instead of "flyers" or "handbills".

Maybe LHO didn't have any signs at all with him when he was arrested. Which would explain why you can't find them in evidence, Ed. And if LHO did have a sign with him, it makes sense that he would have had only one because passing out flyers and holding more than one sign would have been ridiculously awkward, to say the least. Even holding just one sign and passing out flyers would have been awkward.

I think Martello was referring to LHO's flyers or handbills (plural), but unfortunately used the word "placards" instead.

--Tommy :)

bump

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

{...]

Lieutenant Martello (NOPD) states he witnessed the Placard placed into evidence against Lee Oswald.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Martello.pdf

I can find no such evidence as of yet...

Ed

Ed,

Why do you say "the placard" (singular) when Martello clearly said "some placards" (plural)?

When Martello says that he "...observed some placards marked as evidence (and) saw that they were signed by the Fair Play for Cuba [Committee]...", I think he was talking about LHO's handbills or flyers, not cardboard (or whatever) signs. I think he simply used the wrong word, "placards", instead of "flyers" or "handbills".

Maybe LHO didn't have any signs at all with him when he was arrested. Which would explain why you can't find them in evidence, Ed. And if LHO did have a sign with him, it makes sense that he would have had only one sign with him because passing out flyers and holding more than one sign would have been very awkward, to say the least. Even holding just one sign and passing out flyers would have been awkward.

I think Martello was referring to LHO's flyers or handbills (plural), but unfortunately used the word "placards" instead.

--Tommy :)

Hi Tommy,

I say placard because I want to see the Oswald one. The other was torn up (not Lee's) and placed in a police car and later entered into evidence. (with Lee's)

But 'later' all that was referenced by Martello is the handouts and pamphlets.

This is why I'm tracing/tracking the film that was taken by the Doyle's. It should show the Placards. But I'm interested in the correlation between the Attic and NO placard of Lee's. Were they the same? If one was found in Neely then it could not have been the same as the NO one. All this is intertwined. Attempting to unravel, it is difficult with witnesses deceased and all.

Now Martello talked specifically about the placard of Lee's that had info about membership and other handouts attached to it. The ripped up one was carried by his "assistant"(& was on a stick) Lee's had a string for placing around his neck. Its all in the Doyle/Wilson interviews.

It also ties into the pamphlets and handouts sent by FPCC in NY to Lee near the time he left for NO.

If these were picked up by Lee at his PO box then why get more printed in NO?

Lots of questions to be answered.

Still looking for Doyle film to help answer them.

Hope this helps Tommy.

Two Placards, One was Lee's on a string, second was his helpers and on a stick.

(or at least that's the testimony) ;-)

Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ed,

I appreciate you adding me as a friend today, particularly because I feel like I may have caused you all some unnecessary work.

Whatever I saw about the "placard in the attic", it was in the FBI field office file and it was after the assassination, not before.

The next time I'm in DC (which should be this year), I will go to the file at the Archives and find it for you.

If anyone knows anyone living in DC, maybe they could do it sooner than that!

Bill

Good to have you as a friend Bill!

No problem, you have opened a whole new area. From Neely attic to NO placards and film. Dates Lee moved, address changes, etc. ALL IMPORTANT AREAS!

And I thank you for the information Bill!!

Yes if you can do a search in DC I would be most grateful. I do have a few friends in DC as well as a distant relative. Not sure they would know heads from tails about looking into this though. lol

It would be a pretty strange request. "You want me look where for what?" hahaha

So I'll keep plugging away at my end.

Thanks again Bill,

Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

{...]

Lieutenant Martello (NOPD) states he witnessed the Placard placed into evidence against Lee Oswald.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh10/pdf/WH10_Martello.pdf

I can find no such evidence as of yet...

Ed

Ed,

Why do you say "the placard" (singular) when Martello clearly said "some placards" (plural)?

When Martello says that he "...observed some placards marked as evidence (and) saw that they were signed by the Fair Play for Cuba [Committee]...", I think he was talking about LHO's handbills or flyers, not cardboard (or whatever) signs. I think he simply used the wrong word, "placards", instead of "flyers" or "handbills".

Maybe LHO didn't have any signs at all with him when he was arrested. Which would explain why you can't find them in evidence, Ed. And if LHO did have a sign with him, it makes sense that he would have had only one sign with him because passing out flyers and holding more than one sign would have been very awkward, to say the least. Even holding just one sign and passing out flyers would have been awkward.

I think Martello was referring to LHO's flyers or handbills (plural), but unfortunately used the word "placards" instead.

--Tommy :)

Hi Tommy,

I say placard because I want to see the Oswald one. The other was torn up (not Lee's) and placed in a police car and later entered into evidence. (with Lee's)

But 'later' all that was referenced by Martello is the handouts and pamphlets.

This is why I'm tracing/tracking the film that was taken by the Doyle's. It should show the Placards. But I'm interested in the correlation between the Attic and NO placard of Lee's. Were they the same? If one was found in Neely then it could not have been the same as the NO one. All this is intertwined. Attempting to unravel, it is difficult with witnesses deceased and all.

Now Martello talked specifically about the placard of Lee's that had info about membership and other handouts attached to it. The ripped up one was carried by his "assistant"(& was on a stick) Lee's had a string for placing around his neck. Its all in the Doyle/Wilson interviews.

It also ties into the pamphlets and handouts sent by FPCC in NY to Lee near the time he left for NO.

If these were picked up by Lee at his PO box then why get more printed in NO?

Lots of questions to be answered.

Still looking for Doyle film to help answer them.

Hope this helps Tommy.

Two Placards, One was Lee's on a string, second was his helpers and on a stick.

(or at least that's the testimony) ;-)

Ed

Hey Ed,

Great post! Thanks for summarizing and clarifying it all for me.

I wish you the best of luck in your researching endeavors!

--Tommy :)

Edited by Thomas Graves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Tom Scully

.................

.......................

Thanks, Tom.

I thought it was a long-shot.

Did you happen to look into Elizabeth Randle (building manager of Fairmount Apartment's when Gary Craig was living there) to see if she was related to the Bill Randle's (Linnie Mae's married side)?

.......

http://wc.rootsweb.a...stealth&id=I928

ID: I928

  • Name: George Lyndal RANDAL
  • Sex: M
  • Birth: 26 SEP 1897 in Waco, McLennan County, Texas
  • Death: 02 DEC 1952 in Dallas, Dallas County, Texas

Father: George Washington RANDAL b: 06 MAR 1846 in San Augustine, Texas

Mother: Fanny Temperance LANE b: 25 OCT 1859 in Macon County, Georgia

Marriage 1 Elizabeth NESSLER

Children

  1. child_blank.gifBetty RANDAL (married Walter McElroy, Jr.)
  2. child_blank.gifGeorge L. RANDAL Jr.

Elizabeth Randal's maiden name is actual spelled Nesseler. Her mother Nellie died in 1961:

https://familysearch...M9.1.1/JXGL-5HG

I missed, until now, that her mother was part of Elizabeth Randal's household in the 1930 U.S. Census record for University Park:

https://familysearch...M9.1.1/H5MH-HZM

Elizabeth's father died in 1925:

https://familysearch...M9.1.1/J69Q-Y7W

The Nesseler family was recorded as Nusler in the 1920 census record:

https://familysearch...M9.1.1/MC9B-BM5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×