Neely St Questions

[Thomas Graves]

Great thread, guys. Learning a lot...

--Thomas

Edited January 16, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

[...] O'Brien had succeeded SCU star Sammy Baugh at the QB postion, after Baugh's team was narrowly defeated in the New Year's day 1936 game played in the Rose Bowl. [...]

[...] The reason I am posting this is because I see something that smells.[...]

As Jack White and I well know, Davey O'Brien and Sammy Baugh were All-American quarterbacks at TCU (Texas Christian University), not SCU. (What the heck does that stand for, anyway? Southern Crossfire University?)...

Dang! It must smell real bad if you can actually see the smell...

--Thomas

Edited April 12, 2011 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

Bill, Tom and Lee, have had a hell of day putting this together after losing it a couple of times. Will get to individual responses when I can.

A review of the investigation of Oswald's time at 214 W. Neely. Some commentary follows some entries:

First document is an interview showing that the downstairs neighbor has morphed from George B Gray to George B Bray.

Mr Gray/Bray - lived in the bottom apartment:

The upstairs apartment was occupied in March by Oswald and his wife.

The Oswald's had assistance moving in from a lady in a white station wagon.

He and his wife both worked so had little contact with Oswald.

Mrs Oswald spoke no English.

Oswald appeared to be unfriendly.

They had visits occasionally from young couples.

They often quarrelled and on occasion this was in the presence of a male visitor who used the backstairs. This was a white male with a chunky build.

The Oswald's moved in early May.

[The FBI interview with George B.gives his surname as "Bray". Yet as we'll see, his former landlord and employee both knew him under the surname "Gray". Among all neighbors questioned, he alone remembers Oswald as living there. The woman with the car is no doubt meant to be Ruth Paine. The young couples who visited could be the Paines or Taylors. The white "chunky" male could be DeM or Hosty. Compare to NO neighbors where every neighbor interviewed remembered him. Refer back to comments of Lee Farley for other problems with this]

M. Waldo (AKA M.W. AKA JIM W.) George - owner of the property:

The upstairs apartment became vacant in late January and he placed a "for rent" sign in the yard.

He went to this apartment on March 2, and his wife phoned him there to advise that a person named Oswald had phoned inquiring about apartments.

She had advised Oswald that her husband was at the W. Neely St apartment and he could go around and see him.

Oswald came around on that date and paid one month rent in advance of $60.00 which took the rent up to May 2.

On March 4, Oswald made an abusive call to Mrs George because the utilities had not been connected. George did nothing in regard to the call.

George next saw Oswald on April 1 when he collected his next rent instalment in advance.

Shortly after collecting this rent, George Gray from downstairs made a complaint that Oswald had beaten his wife.

On the 3rd or 4th of April, the Georges called on the Oswalds to invite them to attend the Gaston Ave Baptist Church. Oswald advised they belonged to the Russian Orthodox Church.

[The FBI made no attempt to determine how/why the phone was still connected at the apartment since the previous tenant had vacated more than a month before. If Oswald paid rent up until May 2, this is another curious case of him not claiming back monies he might need and be entitled to prior to moving to NO on April 22. Contrary to this, only the gas was disconnected. The electricity was left on after the previous tenant left per Dallas P & L policy. On a related matter, wouldn't the two apartments be designated apartment "a" a"b" or "1" and "2"? and have separate meters for utilities?]

Lone Star Gas Co - Barbara Daugherty

Mrs D advised that gas was turned on at 214 on receipt of a request made by Lee H Oswald. Records did not show whether the request was in person or by phone.

The service was connected on March 4 and a letter was sent to Oswald requesting a deposit.

A $10.00 deposit was made on March 8. No further bills were paid against this account.

The bills sent were:

Mar $4.15

Apr $2.03

May $1.53 (min amt payable to keep the service connected?)

Jun $1.53

Jul $1.53

Aug $1:53

Sep $1:53

The service was disconnected on Oct 11 when the bill exceeded the deposit amount plus interest. The outstanding amount owed was $3.48.

[This tends to indicate whoever was there, be it Oswald and family, or some other, they left mid April]

Dallas Power & Light - MJ Fish

The service had been connected for a CP Cornett until Jan 16 when Cornett advised by hone he was moving.

Due to policy, the service was not disconnected at this time.

The meter was read on February 19. At that time, the meter reader reported the premises as vacant.

The meter was read again on March 20 and 36 kilowatt hours had been used. However, the meter reader once again reported the premises vacant.

The next reading was on April 19 and reflected a usage of 66 kilowatt hours. The premises this time were reported as occupied.

On April 24, a letter was sent to the address requesting the new occupant to make a deposit. No response was received.

On May 1, a company representative paid a visit to the address and the letter sent on Apr 24 was seen still sitting in the letter box.

As a result of the above, a cut off order was issued for electricity services on May 1, with the services duly cut the next day

Fish advised he had made a hand written note in a file on March 29, that 214 W Neely was occupied by Lee Harvey Oswald.

He was unable to say where or how he got that information. It may however, have come from Gray/Bray as W Waldo George thought Gray/Bray worked at that company.

Dallas Power & Light received no payment for electrical services at the apartment between Jan 16 and May 2 when it was cut.

[How was it determined by the meter reader on March 20 that the apartment was vacant? Was this finding based on a reading of the meter, or observation of the dwelling, or a combination of those methods? Clearly, it was important to get this right because it triggered the company to send a request for a deposit. All in all, this seems to suggest that the apartment became occupied and then vacated again between Feb 19 and Mar 20. The date Oswald and family were supposed to have moved in fits within that timeframe, but his vacating of the apartment was not officially for about another month.]

Mrs Wayne Smith, formerly of 220 W. Neely St.

She hand her husband had been close neighbors of 214 W. Neely during the time in question.

She and her husband had no knowledge of Oswald based on name or description.

After seeing him on TV many times, they had discussed his possible motives and whether or not they may have ever met/known him.

They were unaware that they had ever lived next door to him.

http://www.maryferre...07&relPageId=57

Mr DW Ellis - Foreman, Davey Tree Expert Company

Mr Ellis advised that George B Gray left the employment of the company on or about July 1, 1963 had his last pay check mailed to an address in Alabama.

[This contradicts the other person who also believed George B's surname was "Gray" - the person whose own real name is something of a mystery - Mr George. W. Waldo George believed "Gray" had been working for Dallas Power & Light. If this turned out to be true, then I think it would solve the mystery of how Mr Fish of DP & L came by Oswald's name...]

Discussed previously

Mrs RW Williams current of 220 W. Neely St.

She advised she had lived at 220 since March 1, '63.

One must assume she either shared accommodation with Mrs Wayne Smith, or that this address too, consisted of apartments.

She was unable to recognise Oswald as a former neighbor.

Mr and Mrs Friddle - neighbors of 214 W. Neely

They did not know Oswald.

They "do know that a young man, his wife and two small children resided at the upstairs apartment at 214 W. Neely for a very short time around April and May..."

"the only reason they know this is because they would see him, his wife and children around this house and on the upstairs balcony..."

Edited April 12, 2011 by Greg Parker

[Jack White]

Scully writes erroneously:

Once upon a time, the founding director of the nations internal federal police intiated a recruitment drive. Newspapers at the time reported that the FBI had hired "scores" of former college football players as agent trainees. Two of the new hires were SCU All American college stars, Davey O'brien and IB Hale. O'Brien had succeeded SCU star Sammy Baugh at the QB postion, after Baught's team was narrowly defeated in the New Year's day 1936 game played in the Rose Bowl. One of the tri-captains on the winning, SMU football team that day was...

TCU stars O'Brien and Hale had brief pro careers, and did work for a short time as FBI agents.

Later Hale became director of security at General Dynamics in FW, and O'Brien became a FW oil man.

Sammy Baugh became a pro for the Washington Redskins and still holds many NFL records. He was

not involved with the FBI, and in fact was a star in some western movies, not the FBI. TCU did NOT

play in the 1936 Rose Bowl, but the Sugar Bowl. In 2011 TCU did play in the Rose Bowl, but that is

another story.

Jack

[Guest Tom Scully]

Jack, I would love to read an apology posted by you, but I expect I'll wait a long time for it to appear on these pages. You posted a description of IB Hale having a "brief pro career". Although it was true Hale was drafted by a professional team, I doubt you can prove Hale ever played a minute of pro football. Why not start a thread to debate how "brief" is brief?

It is no wonder John Simkin has dropped out. He is correct, this community of researchers does feed on itself.

If the responses to my finding and posting the address and tel. no. of Tucker-Manning Insurance Co. in Dallas and it's ownership background, posted by you and by Tom are typical of the research community, it is no wonder that information about Tucker-Manning had remained unknown for so long.

I got two small details, compared to the bigger picture in this matter, wrong....TCU instead of SCU, and this, which I misinterpreted in my

haste to mean that the contest described took place in the Rose Bowl, instead of as a prelude. I was attempting to establish ties of those with

a role in fabricating the Neely St association.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCU_Horned_Frogs_football

...Dutch Meyer/Abe Martin era

1935 began the first year for TCU coach Noah Everett. That year TCU and SMU again met to decide not only the SWC title but the first trip to the Rose Bowl for a team from the SWC. Grantland Rice of the New York Sun called it the "Game of the Century" and reported the following:...

Jack White is mistaken.... according to these sources, Davey O'Brien was FBI for many years.

http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2009/11/

http://www.thealumnico.com/TCU.html

....but he retired after the 1940 season to join the Federal Bureau of Investigation. After completing his training, he was assigned to the bureau’s field office in Springfield, MO. O’Brien was a firearms instructor at headquarters in Quantico, VA, and spent the last five years of his FBI career in Dallas. He retired in 1950 and went to work for Haroldson L. Hunt in land development and later entered the oil business working for Dresser-Atlas Industries of Dallas and eventually started his own business.

By the way Jack, I strongly suspect the man in the upper right portion of the photo is IB Hale, because I recently posted photos of him on this forum from the time when he was a High School athletic director.

I discovered this obit. Did you know before I posted this recently on another thread that Hale's wife was a Kingsbery?

Fort Worth Star-Telegram : OBITUARIES

‎

$2.95 - Fort Worth Star-Telegram - Feb 2, 1997

She was preceded in death by her parents Joe Kingsbery Jr and Belle Birge Kingsbery and by her sister Virginia Kingsbery Hale and by her beloved grandmother .

The point, gentlemen, is not that I posted TCU as SCU, or that I posted the wrong venue establishing the acquaintance of Sammy Baugh with a man married to an owner of Tucker-Manning Insurance Co... The point is that the FBI withheld a sensitive report about Hale's twin sons doing a B&E of an apartment rented by Rosselli, just 18 months before the WC convened, and that the FBI and WC failed to mention IB Hale when they reported to the American people that Virginia Hale of Fortune Rd., Ft Worth, sent LHO to a successful job interview at Leslie Welding, and that, over the subsequent 29 years until his death, John Connally did not seem to notice that the mother of the young man who claimed he tried to slap away the shotgun that killed Connally's daughter at the moment that it discharged, was the same woman who sent LHO, the man the government "established" as the shooter of Connally, to a job interview at Leslie Welding.

You're making me wonder why I am sharing anything on these threads. Is that your intent?

Edited April 12, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Thomas Graves]

Jack, I would love to read an apology posted by you, but I expect I'll wait a long time for it to appear on these pages. You posted a description of IB Hale having a "brief pro career". Although it was true Hale was drafted by a professional team, I doubt you can prove Hale ever played a minute of pro football. Why not start a thread to debate how "brief" is brief?

It is no wonder John Simkin has dropped out. He is correct, this community of researchers does feed on itself.

If the responses to my finding and posting the address and tel. no. of Tucker-Manning Insurance Co. in Dallas and it's ownership background, posted by you and by Tom are typical of the research community, it is no wonder that information about Tucker-Manning had remained unknown for so long.

I got two small details, compared to the bigger picture in this matter, wrong....TCU instead of SCU, and this, which I misinterpreted in my

haste to mean that the contest described took place in the Rose Bowl, instead of as a prelude. I was attempting to establish ties of those with

a role in fabricating the Neely St association.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCU_Horned_Frogs_football

...Dutch Meyer/Abe Martin era

1935 began the first year for TCU coach Noah Everett. That year TCU and SMU again met to decide not only the SWC title but the first trip to the Rose Bowl for a team from the SWC. Grantland Rice of the New York Sun called it the "Game of the Century" and reported the following:...

Jack White is mistaken.... according to these sources, Davey O'Brien was FBI for many years.

http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2009/11/

http://www.thealumnico.com/TCU.html

....but he retired after the 1940 season to join the Federal Bureau of Investigation. After completing his training, he was assigned to the bureau’s field office in Springfield, MO. O’Brien was a firearms instructor at headquarters in Quantico, VA, and spent the last five years of his FBI career in Dallas. He retired in 1950 and went to work for Haroldson L. Hunt in land development and later entered the oil business working for Dresser-Atlas Industries of Dallas and eventually started his own business.

By the way Jack, I strongly suspect the man in the upper right portion of the photo is IB Hale, because I recently posted photos of him on this forum from the time when he was a High School athletic director.

I discovered this obit. Did you know before I posted this recently on another thread that Hale's wife was a Kingsbery?

Fort Worth Star-Telegram : OBITUARIES

‎

$2.95 - Fort Worth Star-Telegram - Feb 2, 1997

She was preceded in death by her parents Joe Kingsbery Jr and Belle Birge Kingsbery and by her sister Virginia Kingsbery Hale and by her beloved grandmother .

The point, gentlemen, is not that I posted TCU as SCU, or that I posted the wrong venue establishing the acquaintance of Sammy Baugh with a man married to an owner of Tucker-Manning Insurance Co... The point is that the FBI withheld a sensitive report about Hale's twin sons doing a B&E of an apartment rented by Rosselli, just 18 months before the WC convened, and that the FBI and WC failed to mention IB Hale when they reported to the American people that Virginia Hale of Fortune Rd., Ft Worth, sent LHO to a successful job interview at Leslie Welding, and that, over the subsequent 29 years until his death, John Connally did not seem to notice that the mother of the young man who claimed he tried to slap away the shotgun that killed Connally's daughter at the moment that it discharged, was the same woman who sent LHO, the man the government "established" as the shooter of Connally, to a job interview at Leslie Welding.

You're making me wonder why I am sharing anything on these threads. Is that your intent?

Tom,

Please keep posting. I love reading your long, convoluted, "deep-deep-deep-deep politics," "seven-degrees-of-separation," works of art. They remind me of certain scenes of A Brilliant Mind.

Keep up the good work,

--Thomas

Edited April 13, 2011 by Thomas Graves

[Jack White]

Jack, I would love to read an apology posted by you, but I expect I'll wait a long time for it to appear on these pages. You posted a description of IB Hale having a "brief pro career". Although it was true Hale was drafted by a professional team, I doubt you can prove Hale ever played a minute of pro football. Why not start a thread to debate how "brief" is brief?

It is no wonder John Simkin has dropped out. He is correct, this community of researchers does feed on itself.

If the responses to my finding and posting the address and tel. no. of Tucker-Manning Insurance Co. in Dallas and it's ownership background, posted by you and by Tom are typical of the research community, it is no wonder that information about Tucker-Manning had remained unknown for so long.

I got two small details, compared to the bigger picture in this matter, wrong....TCU instead of SCU, and this, which I misinterpreted in my

haste to mean that the contest described took place in the Rose Bowl, instead of as a prelude. I was attempting to establish ties of those with

a role in fabricating the Neely St association.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCU_Horned_Frogs_football

...Dutch Meyer/Abe Martin era

1935 began the first year for TCU coach Noah Everett. That year TCU and SMU again met to decide not only the SWC title but the first trip to the Rose Bowl for a team from the SWC. Grantland Rice of the New York Sun called it the "Game of the Century" and reported the following:...

Jack White is mistaken.... according to these sources, Davey O'Brien was FBI for many years.

http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2009/11/

http://www.thealumnico.com/TCU.html

....but he retired after the 1940 season to join the Federal Bureau of Investigation. After completing his training, he was assigned to the bureau’s field office in Springfield, MO. O’Brien was a firearms instructor at headquarters in Quantico, VA, and spent the last five years of his FBI career in Dallas. He retired in 1950 and went to work for Haroldson L. Hunt in land development and later entered the oil business working for Dresser-Atlas Industries of Dallas and eventually started his own business.

By the way Jack, I strongly suspect the man in the upper right portion of the photo is IB Hale, because I recently posted photos of him on this forum from the time when he was a High School athletic director.

I discovered this obit. Did you know before I posted this recently on another thread that Hale's wife was a Kingsbery?

Fort Worth Star-Telegram : OBITUARIES

‎

$2.95 - Fort Worth Star-Telegram - Feb 2, 1997

She was preceded in death by her parents Joe Kingsbery Jr and Belle Birge Kingsbery and by her sister Virginia Kingsbery Hale and by her beloved grandmother .

The point, gentlemen, is not that I posted TCU as SCU, or that I posted the wrong venue establishing the acquaintance of Sammy Baugh with a man married to an owner of Tucker-Manning Insurance Co... The point is that the FBI withheld a sensitive report about Hale's twin sons doing a B&E of an apartment rented by Rosselli, just 18 months before the WC convened, and that the FBI and WC failed to mention IB Hale when they reported to the American people that Virginia Hale of Fortune Rd., Ft Worth, sent LHO to a successful job interview at Leslie Welding, and that, over the subsequent 29 years until his death, John Connally did not seem to notice that the mother of the young man who claimed he tried to slap away the shotgun that killed Connally's daughter at the moment that it discharged, was the same woman who sent LHO, the man the government "established" as the shooter of Connally, to a job interview at Leslie Welding.

You're making me wonder why I am sharing anything on these threads. Is that your intent?

What is up with Scully?

TCU NEVER HAD A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH NAMED NOAH EVERETT. Where does he get all this false information?

Hall of Fame Coach Francis A. Schmidt was followed at TCU by Hall of Fame Coach Leo R. "Dutch" Meyer, who

coached the 1936 National Champion Frogs. There was NO coach Noah Everett in between Schmidt and Meyer!

Scully would do better to study I. B. Hale's sons, one of whom married a daughter of John Connally, but later "accidentally"

shot her to death. And it is well known that both Hale and O'Brien became FBI agents, so what is the big deal, introducing

fictitious coaches at misnamed schools playing in erroneous bowl games? Does this pass for scholarly research?

Jack

[Thomas Graves]

What is up with Scully?

TCU NEVER HAD A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH NAMED NOAH EVERETT. Where does he get all this false information?

Hall of Fame Coach Francis A. Schmidt was followed at TCU by Hall of Fame Coach Leo R. "Dutch" Meyer, who

coached the 1936 National Champion Frogs. There was NO coach Noah Everett in between Schmidt and Meyer!

Scully would do better to study I. B. Hale's sons, one of whom married a daughter of John Connally, but later "accidentally"

shot her to death. And it is well known that both Hale and O'Brien became FBI agents, so what is the big deal, introducing

fictitious coaches at misnamed schools playing in erroneous bowl games? Does this pass for scholarly research?

Jack

Jack, you old nitpicker, you. Maybe Boise State I mean the CIA slipped that into the Wikipedia article as a "barium meal." Please stop picking on Tom. LOL

--Thomas

Edited April 13, 2011 by Thomas Graves

[Jack White]

What is up with Scully?

TCU NEVER HAD A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH NAMED NOAH EVERETT. Where does he get all this false information?

Hall of Fame Coach Francis A. Schmidt was followed at TCU by Hall of Fame Coach Leo R. "Dutch" Meyer, who

coached the 1936 National Champion Frogs. There was NO coach Noah Everett in between Schmidt and Meyer!

Scully would do better to study I. B. Hale's sons, one of whom married a daughter of John Connally, but later "accidentally"

shot her to death. And it is well known that both Hale and O'Brien became FBI agents, so what is the big deal, introducing

fictitious coaches at misnamed schools playing in erroneous bowl games? Does this pass for scholarly research?

Jack

Jack, you old nitpicker, you. Maybe Boise State I mean the CIA slipped that into the Wikipedia article as a "barium meal." Please stop picking on Tom. LOL

--Thomas

It is not nitpicking to declare that REAL RESEARCHERS DO NOT USE WIKIPEDIA as a source. Anyone can put ANYTHING in Wikipedia.

Jack

[Greg Parker]

The pay stub and the torn box top were discovered at the same time as the bus transfer and shells. But all four of those items should have been found in the initial search. The only item I believe "may" not have been planted is the box top. It's possible he had been looking for a person in the theater who had the other (matching) half.

The only two people who placed Oswald as living on Neely St were two people whose names keep morphing in the records. None of the neighbors could recognize Oswald as having lived at that address - with one couple (the Friddles) being certain the young couple who did live there for a short time IN APRIL AND MAY had two children.

The gas company had the gas on in the name of Oswald, but admitted they did not know if Oswald had attended in person, or merely phoned them. Either way, whoever put the gas on, obviously needed no proof of who they were.

A Dallas Electricity & Light employee had noted the name "Oswald" as the new resident, but had no idea where he got that information, nor did it apparently go on official records. Meanwhile, the meter reader reported that the place was vacant as at February 19 and again on March 20. He does NOT report it as occupied until the next reading on Apr 19. On the face of it, the indication is that the apartment was unoccupied until some time between March 20 and April 19.

This is within the range given by the Friddles for when the couple with two kids moved in - but well after the Oswald's had supposedly moved in. Unless we assume, with Liftonesque audacity, that the meter reader was incompetent, I'm sticking with my original thought that the Oswald's never lived there.

And this is where the break and enter comes into play. The payslip was planted on Oswald simply to add further "proof" that he had lived at that address. It may be that there were two were taken from the trash after the place had been cleaned in June, with one being placed back inside during a b& e and the other simply claimed to have been found on Oswald. Unlike the box top, I can divine no intelligence need for the pay slip - but it works as evidence of residence (assuming you don't stop too long to ponder why Oswald would keep the dam thing after "finding" it in the apartment!). Such slim evidence was better than nothing - and nothing was what they had by way of a paper trail (e.g no rent receipts etc)

A question: Is it possible the BY photos were taken during the two month period that the B & Es occurred (obviously not with Oswald, but with his head later pasted on?)

[Guest Tom Scully]

What is up with Scully?

TCU NEVER HAD A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH NAMED NOAH EVERETT. Where does he get all this false information?

Hall of Fame Coach Francis A. Schmidt was followed at TCU by Hall of Fame Coach Leo R. "Dutch" Meyer, who

coached the 1936 National Champion Frogs. There was NO coach Noah Everett in between Schmidt and Meyer!

Scully would do better to study I. B. Hale's sons, one of whom married a daughter of John Connally, but later "accidentally"

shot her to death. And it is well known that both Hale and O'Brien became FBI agents, so what is the big deal, introducing

fictitious coaches at misnamed schools playing in erroneous bowl games? Does this pass for scholarly research?

Jack

Jack, you old nitpicker, you. Maybe Boise State I mean the CIA slipped that into the Wikipedia article as a "barium meal." Please stop picking on Tom. LOL

--Thomas

It is not nitpicking to declare that REAL RESEARCHERS DO NOT USE WIKIPEDIA as a source. Anyone can put ANYTHING in Wikipedia.

Jack

Hey Jack, do you even find it mildly interesting that Dr. Bonner Frizzell possessed the Ardmore, OK, address of the mother-in-law (Oma Pace Holloway) of the man the WCR states was LHO's Neely St. landlord?

On page 11 of 12, with no. 92 at top, as Oma Pace....

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:2XXvV0ZFpZUJ:freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~owen2owens/owendavidallen4.pdf+bonner+frizzell+oma+holloway+ardmore&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShAOD4oZpaImgoGnzHwgDxEpY0vAOHgdQjuf5XqV_jpAOjfIdWX8w5Q-bf01G8VK0oToqBk9cpA5ck3HgptO-d0RvvwSxGaWNpFEjpIlliBE_8v-Ux04TbifUPa5Rx4YsS8R6bV&sig=AHIEtbQiX4sqQ61THKa1Qlwwr3DqzFRS9A

http://palestineherald.com/local/x7458899/Longtime-educator-Bonner-Frizzell-to-be-honored-with-historical-marker

Edited April 14, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Jack White]

Do you find it mildly interesting that the WC was interested in the PUBIC HAIRS of LHO and the FALSE TEETH of Jack Ruby's mother?

[David Andrews]

Do you find it mildly interesting that the WC was interested in the PUBIC HAIRS of LHO and the FALSE TEETH of Jack Ruby's mother?

I can see the PH snip as an obsessive harvesting for tracing Oswald's house-to-house movement, if needed.

I can see, hypothetically, how the PH sample might have been ordered to compare to samples gathered from multiple Oswalds.

But can someone remind me why the WC needed Mrs. Ruby's plates, and why it put them in the Report?

Edited May 8, 2011 by David Andrews

[Greg Parker]

Do you find it mildly interesting that the WC was interested in the PUBIC HAIRS of LHO and the FALSE TEETH of Jack Ruby's mother?

I can see the PH snip as an obsessive harvesting for tracing Oswald's house-to-houe movement, if needed.

I can see, hypothetically, how the PH sample might have been ordered to compare to samples gathered from multiple Oswalds.

But can someone remind me why the WC needed Mrs. Ruby's plates, and why it put them in the Report?

David,

Her entire existing medical file was obtained - which just happened to include the dental stuff. And why her medical file was obtained is easy to see when you read it: it shows she had psychiatric problems, was highly strung, could cry at the drop of the hat and had verbal diarrhea. In short, Fannie's medical records were used to shore up the post-assassination picture being painted of Jack. IMO, most of her medical problems were in fact created by being used in radiation experiments at Michael Reese Hospital, and perhaps continued at Elgin State Hospital. But that's another discussion...

edit: I thought they may have obtained the PH because Oswald had his pistol shoved down his Y-Fronts.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Greg Parker

[Greg Parker]

In addition to Oswald writing the 3519 Fairmount address on the back of his Leslie Welding checks:

He also had the address listed on his Employee ID card at Jaggers Chiles Stovall:

Thanks Lee. I see it has "602 Elsbeth" written above it in what appears to these untrained eyes as the same hand - indicating that they gave the form back to him to add that address when he (allegedly) moved there (notwithstanding the fact that the address was supposed to be "604"). Unusual that the company would not add the new address themselves and then cross out the other address.

3519 Fairmount is the address of Gary Taylor who was married to George DeMohrenschildt's daughter and the address appears nowhere in Oswald's official biography. Taylor denied Oswald ever lived with him. Strange indeed.

And of course, they allegedly moved to 214 W. Neely St while he still worked at JCS, yet this address is not added. I note that he was fired on the April 1 - which is one of the dates given for when he moved in...

And just a quick shout to Greg. Here is a link to the Reily Coffee application where Oswald originally listed his cousin from New Orleans, William Oswald, as a character reference, but this is crossed out and the name Sgt. Robt. Hidell is written above it:

http://www.maryferre...9&relPageId=122

Even if William didn't know him, they were actually kin. Surely all he had to do was go introduce himself and explain he had trouble coming up with references and would he mind if he used him. The only innocent explanation I can think of is that, at the time he handed the form in, he was told he could not use relatives, so he crossed William out and added the fictitious Rt Hidell. Of course, Lillian was related as well, but that wouldn't be obvious. I honestly don't think that is what happened, but it's possible - otherwise, it is just bizarre behavior by Oswald (to cross out a real, living relative for a figment of "his" imagination - if in fact, h did it.

I know Richard Gilbride has talked about Bobby Brown reportedly being the only Officer who went to the Neely Street address to take photographs, but there is a report here from the 12/12/63 that states that:

"It was determined that the photograph of Oswald found in his effects and showing him holding a rifle, was taken in the backyard of the Neely Street address. On November 29, 1963, accompanied by Captain Will Fritz and Detective B. G. Brown, Police Photographer, Dallas Police, SAIC Sorrels and SA Blake went to that address and took photgraphs of the backyard area."

http://www.maryferre...49&relPageId=54

Richard didn't actually say Brown was the only man to go, he was quoting from "First Day Evidence" which said Brown was the only person from the Crime Lab to go.

And on a final note, from the same 12/12/63 report (link below) you will notice that Bledsoe's story has begun to evolve, but you will also notice that the writer of the report in December is stating that Bledsoe's "recollections [were] that Oswald was wearing an old brown shirt, with holes in the elbows of the sleeves, and possibly with the shirttail hanging out."

There is no mention in this small overview of Oswald speaking a foreign language, even though it contains the information that he used the phone, there is no mention of a "job hunting/death map" being found by Bledsoe because it says he "left nothing in the room, and once again, when "Oswald" gets on the bus, he goes to the REAR of the bus.

http://www.maryferre...49&relPageId=56

This woman's story is a complete fabrication.

Unbelievable. I'm beginning to think Mary was a complete fabrication! Maybe it was Porter doing his Anthony Perkins doing Psycho impersonation!

Good Grief. After writing the above, I noticed in the report that the next person to move into that room after Oswald was a female. Did they find the peephole? Or the body?

Back to Neely St. Richard Gilbride has brought to my attention, the fact that Ruth Paine's calendar had "Marina" written down on March 20 and that she testified that she went to visit Marina that day and could possibly have taken her back to Irving - thus when the meter reader came, the sparsely furnished apartment would appear vacant and the small amount of electricity used would be put down to the owner coming by to fix the place up. When I get time, I want to return to that issue having now looked into it a bit more.