Neely St Questions

[Thomas Graves]

edit

Greg,

You used to be one of the very few people here whose posts I actually looked forward to reading. But now it seems to me that you're acting a bit like a child who, angry at his playmates, leaves the playground in a big huff and takes all his toys with him.

I wish you all the best with your book and with your website.

--Tommy

Edited October 25, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Howard]

Several pages back on this thread there was mention of the "portion of Cox's boxtop" in LHO's possession. Did anyone dig further into this? In that era there were two Cox Department stores, one in Waco that went bankrupt in 1995

The other was in Fort Worth and according to Wikipedia, [granted not the most reliable source] it later merged with W. C. Stripling & Sons

fortwortharchitecture.com, writes on their website

W.C. Stripling Middle School

2100 Clover Lane - 1927; 1955; 1958; 1989 (CFW)

This school was constructed in 1927 as W.S. Stripling High School to serve the growing population of the Arlington Heights area and to replace the 1922 Arlington Heights High School. The building was designed by Wiley G. Clarkson and constructed by K.H. Muse. Clarkson also designed for the same school bond package, William James Middle School in the Polytechnic area of the city. The plans for the buildings were identical, but Clarkson put different facades on the two schools. The school was named after W.C. Stripling, founder of Stripling's Department Store. The Stripling building is a 3 story "H" shaped plan and has some Georgian Revival details. At the projecting entry, inscriptions of "Knowledge", "Citizenship", and "Character" appear above each arched opening. The campus was landscaped as a part of the Works Progress Administration by Hare and Hare of St. Louis. The school was converted to a junior high school in 1937, when the current Arlington Heights High School opened. With the West Side continually growing, eight classrooms, designed by Jim D. Vowell were added in 1955 and twelve more were added in 1958, thereby extending the wings of the building to the west.

I thought that was worth a post, especially since Oswald went to school there. It might not mean much, but it might at some point in the future.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Robert Howard

[Ed LeDoux]

Several pages back on this thread there was mention of the "portion of Cox's boxtop" in LHO's possession. Did anyone dig further into this? In that era there were two Cox Department stores, one in Waco that went bankrupt in 1995

The other was in Fort Worth and according to Wikipedia, [granted not the most reliable source] it later merged with W. C. Stripling & Sons

fortwortharchitecture.com, writes on their website

W.C. Stripling Middle School

2100 Clover Lane - 1927; 1955; 1958; 1989 (CFW)

This school was constructed in 1927 as W.S. Stripling High School to serve the growing population of the Arlington Heights area and to replace the 1922 Arlington Heights High School. The building was designed by Wiley G. Clarkson and constructed by K.H. Muse. Clarkson also designed for the same school bond package, William James Middle School in the Polytechnic area of the city. The plans for the buildings were identical, but Clarkson put different facades on the two schools. The school was named after W.C. Stripling, founder of Stripling's Department Store. The Stripling building is a 3 story "H" shaped plan and has some Georgian Revival details. At the projecting entry, inscriptions of "Knowledge", "Citizenship", and "Character" appear above each arched opening. The campus was landscaped as a part of the Works Progress Administration by Hare and Hare of St. Louis. The school was converted to a junior high school in 1937, when the current Arlington Heights High School opened. With the West Side continually growing, eight classrooms, designed by Jim D. Vowell were added in 1955 and twelve more were added in 1958, thereby extending the wings of the building to the west.

I thought that was worth a post, especially since Oswald went to school there. It might not mean much, but it might at some point in the future.

Cox's box top could be a signal, clue, or key.

Could be something in Cox's history or location? > R. E. COX AND COMPANY and or The Fair and King Candy Company ;-)

LERNER SHOPS (originally The Scott-Harrold Building) - 601 Houston - 1895, 1936, 1946; demolished September 1996. This building was probably one of the largest structures built in Fort Worth in 1895. It spanned across the entire block along 5th Street between Main and Houston. Entrances were on all three streets. Originally, the building had a brick facade with cast iron and wood columns, and was constructed for The Fair Department Store. In 1936, R.E. Cox & Co. moved in and remodeled the store by placing stucco over the brick. The stucco was scored with joints to appear like stone. In 1946, Cox's moved out and The Lerner Shops moved in and remodeled the building again --

So, some flip flopping between Cox and The Fair happens not just with employees, it happens with whole stores! (sarcasm mine)

"Over at 7th and Throckmorton, Cox's had the first 5 or 6 floors of the FW Club Bldg" ~ (?Fort Worth Club Building)

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1149

"The Fort Worth Club is a multi use Class B office building located between the corners of Taylor and Throckmorton on 7th Street. This beautiful historic building houses The Fort Worth Club, which is a 5 Star Platinum level city club, The Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. and many distinguished oil and gas firms, law firms, banks and more. Since 1885, The Fort Worth Club has held a unique place in the heart of Fort Worth. Originally developed to give business leaders an attentive and elegant environment to discuss city commerce and politics,..."

http://www.dfwi.org/what-we-offer/real-estate/office/35-Fort-Worth-Club-

The overall height of the building is 12 stories. Fakes & Co. were the original tenants of the 6 story base of the building up until 1946, when R.E. Cox & Co. occupied the space until 1955.

www.fortwortharchitecture.com/fwclub.htm

http://hometownbyhandlebar.com/?p=8940

Whatever the city leaders were thinking, West Berry was a relic in the new urban landscape. Stripling & Cox's department store symbolized the stagnation when it closed in the mid-1990s after more than 40 years as West Berry's retail anchor.

"That was the bottoming-out point," Barr said. "When Cox's moved out, there weren't any anchors left."

But some good may have come from Cox's demise.

"That decision sounded an alarm for leaders of the surrounding neighborhoods," Costa said. "They finally came to see that the time had come to do something about the decline of Berry Street because the street was no longer a great asset for the neighborhood or for the city."

(Pictures show "Cox's" sign at this location pre dating the merger)

http://www.magarchive.tcu.edu/articles/2007-03-CV.asp?issueid=200703

Front view of the Stripling and Cox store at 6370 Camp Bowie.

This store was originally R.E. Cox and Co., better known as Cox's.

In the early 1980s, Cox's and a rival department store known as Stripling's

were both doing poorly and I believe were nearly out of business.

They decided to join forces and became Stripling and Cox, which gave them

at least another 25 years of life. They closed permanently not too long after

this picture was taken on June 6, 2007. Photo by John Cirillo.

http://www.fortworthyesterday.com/stripling.htm

http://www.fortworthyesterday.com/pics/Howell-beach-n-belknap-1978-web.jpg

It is worth noting that the FBI failed to interview a single co-worker or employer of LEE Oswald's tall-nice-looking mother when she worked for Goldrings, Kreigers, and Holmes Dept Stores in New Orleans and for Clyde Campbell's Men's Store, the City of Ft. Worth, Paul's Shoe Store, Family Publications, and Cox's Department Store in Ft. Worth from 1956 through 1961. The FBI never obtained any employment information, w-2 forms, payroll records, employment applications or anything else from any of her employers. The FBI simply didn't want to interview anyone or gather records..."

http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html

Cox Box Tops ran in the family!!

Basically in Dec 1958 MARGUERITE got hit in the nose "by a box of candy" in COX'S? (Said Oswald and Pic) Or FAIR RIDGLEA Dept. Store? As employee of candy counter ran by King Candy Company at Fair Ridglea she filed a claim for workers comp.

Joh Pic said it was Downtown, which does not sound like The Fair Ridglea thus she must have worked the candy counter at Cox's in Oct '58... Who's telling the truth?

Did she work at Cox's in '58???

This is part that could use some nailing down:

When and where did MO work for Cox's? How do we know?

Where did Cox's move into a new location in '55-'56 after moving from the FWClub Building? Where were its locations in 1958?

Is there a Cox's Candy Conspiracy, I don't know, but definetely some areas to explore further. (sarcasm mine)

NOTES:

http://books.google.com/books?id=I1VBUrmaMPkC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=marguerite+oswald+cox&source=bl&ots=M-eHdKBGhx&sig=Gqt5PxICWXOxoLwtbHIyAauXmJY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DMorVJuSL4epogT1qYHQDA&ved=0CGgQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=marguerite%20oswald%20cox&f=false

The Fair at Ridglea circa 1958

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kamaaina56/2870778269/

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gcf19iJnAk4C&pg=PT174&lpg=PT174&dq=fair+ridglea+department+store+fort+worth&source=bl&ots=I-AXBbEiHH&sig=avkLJn4n4jbjCddsT-tTof-5ujQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6c8rVKGiGYLMoATTvYGICQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=fair%20ridglea%20department%20store%20fort%20worth&f=false

 Stanley Nyberg, who was Mrs. Oswald'ssupervisor at the King Candy Company in Fort Worth in 1958, said, "Shecame here with her children from New York and had good references" (95).("Children" -- plural -- this after John was married and Robert hadjoined the Marines.)

[Tom Hume]

My take on the Cox's boxtop is in Post #20 on "The Oswald Code" thread.

Tom

Edited October 7, 2014 by Tom Hume

[Thomas Graves]

Could it be this placard that was "found" in the Neely St [Dallas] apt?

From what I've found the Dallas [placard] supposedly said "VIVA CASTRO" yet Lee

Double post deleted by T. Graves

Edited November 17, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Could it be this placard that was "found" in the Neely St [Dallas] apt?

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

From what I've found the Dallas one supposedly said "VIVA CASTRO" yet Lee [...]

[This post was inadvertently truncated - T. Graves]

Dear Forum Members and Forum Lurkers,

It may be common knowledge already, but I thought I'd mention that Oswald's elusive August 9th, Canal Street placard can be glimpsed twice in Black Op Radio's "50 Reasons For 50 Years; Episode 4" video which is viewable on youtube.

It can be seen at 3:58 and at 4:02. (It's hard to spot In both instances, so you may have to stop the video and "click" your mouse several times to advance the video in very small increments until you see it.)

At 3:58, while Oswald is walking past a big, muscular, dark-complected man who's wearing a gray suit and continuously scratching the back of his neck (more about him later in another thread.), you can see the upper right corner of the placard against Oswald's chest.

A few seconds later at 4:02, while Oswald is talking with a policeman and pointing at the sidewalk while leaning forward, the edge and back of it can be seen as it swings back and forth a bit away from Oswald's body. (Note the light colored piece of paper that's attached to the bottom of it.)

Both of these 8/09/63 Canal Street placard sightings are from the elusive James Doyle Film (not to be confused with the John / "Jack" T. Martin Film.)

The "Oswald" part of the Jim Doyle Film runs from 3:50 to 4:05 in this Black Op Radio video:

Martin Shackelford writes about both the Doyle Film and the John ("Jack") Martin Film:

:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/MS/3pe.html

 2b. The James ["Jim"] Doyle Film (8-9-63)                James Doyle was a 16 [sic] year old teenager, visitingNew Orleans with his family in early August 1963. His film  begins inLafayette Park, New Orleans, and includes a view of the Andrew Jacksonstatue. He, too, then noticed a commotion along Canal Street, crossedover to investigate, and began filming. Lee Oswald, back to the camera,is talking with Carlos Bringuier, when a police officer arrives, pushesBringuier aside, and talks with Oswald, who gestures. Oswald is then seenthrough the crowd, under arrest, obscured, moving to the left, and we seehim and the officer at curbside. The film ends with harbor views. To myknowledge, this film has only appeared in one television program, theBritish "Dispatches: The Day the Dream Died," available (as are frames)from The Collector's Archives or from All That Video (405 Hopkins Court,North Wales PA 19434, phone (213) 361-1365.) A still from this film wasalso first published in the 1995 Groden book. [The Oswald part of it can beviewed from 3:50 to 4:05 in rhe "50 Reasons For 50 Years - Episode 4" video by BlackOp Radio.com on youtube; see above link]                  

2a. The Jack [sic] Martin Film (8-9-63)                         In another of those aforementioned ironic twists, a tourist named JackMartin was in Dallas in August 1963. His film records his view from theairplane. Next, he visits General Edwin Walker, under whom he had served,allegedly target of an assassination attempt by Lee Oswald in April ofthat year. The film documents the scene of that attempt: the windowthrough which the shot was fired, the bullet hole, and the wall frombehind which it was most likely fired, ending with  shots of Walker'sflag and mailbox, and a nearby building under construction (allegedlyalso photographed by Oswald prior to the attempt!) . Then we see theentrance to a movie theater, cypress trees, a seal at the edge of a pool,and the statue of Andrew Jackson in Lafayette Park in New Orleans.Aroused by a commotion on Canal Street, Martin crossed to see what washappening, and began filming. We see Lee Oswald, leaflets in hand,standing on the sidewalk, being harangued by anti-Castro militantsincluding Carlos Bringuier. Four police officers are seen arriving. Thefilm ends with a view of the yellow leaflets scattered on the sidewalkafter Bringuier knocked them out of Oswald's hands, and a brief aerialview of a subdivision. Parts of the film have only been used, to myknowledge, on the French television documentary, "Le Mystere Kennedy." The documentary is available on video, and frames from the film as well,from The Collector's Archives. A still from this film was finallypublished in Robert Groden's 1995 book, The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald,an essential photo archive on Oswald.   

[it's also viewable here:]

http://emuseum.jfk.org/view/objects/asitem/term@Home%20movie/6/title-desc;jsessionid=5DEFC9891B70CC9909BCC446E9E5E7AE?t:state:flow=48c4e7da-93f7-43cd-bceb-c6960c78dac1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Doyle was 14 years old in August of 1963, not 16 as Shackelford says.

Jim Doyle's eleven-year-old sister, Sharon (now Sharon Cosgrove), was also in New Orleans that day with her brother "Jim", their parents, and some family friends, and she saw the placard. She told the Portland, Oregon office of the FBI on or around 11/27/63 that Oswald's placard said "Viva la Fidel", according to page two of this FBI report.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Martin%20John%20Minneapolis%20Film%20Enlargments/Item%2023.pdf

Doyle died in 2003 at the age of 54. Here's his obituary:

http://obitz.us/obits/Index%20D3/notesobit_d3_1335.txt

--Tommy

PS I suggest going back to page 7 of this thread and reading post #98, the 2011 post by Ed LeDoux that was inadvertently truncated by me, above.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Simpich]

Marguerite worked at the Cox Department store in 1952, says this document

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=145250

In April 1959, Robert Oswald testified that in April 1959 she was working at the Cox's in Fort Worth

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1621639

I've been thinking that the Cox's box top (pointing to Marguerite Oswald)

and the James Jackson slip (a previous Neely St. resident)

may have been tools that Oswald carried to prove his identity (whether truly or falsely - it would indicate that this man knew that

there was a history of impersonating Oswald!)

The Cox's slip being torn in half, of course, still looks like a tool being used to find his contact.

Ed LeDoux, I wanted you to know that upon further reflection, I am pretty sure that what I saw at the Archives referred to

the placard being found in the attic of the Magazine Street house - not the Neely Street house.

I thought that the Neely Street house was in New Orleans, when I realized it was in Dallas I found myself saying oh-oh.

I hope this helps and I haven't wasted a lot of your time.

Bill

[Bill Simpich]

I note that Oswald said to Officer Martello in August 1963 before his court hearing that he had a placard, made of brown cardboard, with several pieces of his literature on it around his neck, and with the hand-printed "Viva Fidel" at the bottom.

Since the placard was in the court's possession, I would think he was telling on the truth on this one.

His main flyer said in big letters "Hands off Cuba" (with more language in smaller font), which would have dominated the placard. The placard had the hand-printed "Viva Fidel" below the flyer.

I still can't find the reference to the placard in the attic that I seem to have remembered in the archives, but I do see a brown piece of cardboard found at the Magazine residence on 11/23/63, two months after they moved out, with the aforementioned Hands off Cuba flyer pasted to it. No reference to "Viva Fidel", for whatever reason - maybe Oswald removed this hand-printed statement at some point?

The August placard also seems similar to the April placard, which reportedly said from the hasty glance of a cop: "Hands Off Cuba. Viva Fidel."

This may explain a lot of the placard story.

How did his neighbor Gladys Rodgers know or remember that Bill Stuckey visited Oswald in August? That's probably true, but bizarre that she knew or remembered.

[Thomas Graves]

I note that Oswald said to Officer Martello in August 1963 before his court hearing that he had a placard, made of brown cardboard, with several pieces of his literature on it around his neck, and with the hand-printed "Viva Fidel" at the bottom.

Since the placard was in the court's possession, I would think he was telling on the truth on this one.

His main flyer said in big letters "Hands off Cuba" (with more language in smaller font), which would have dominated the placard. The placard had the hand-printed "Viva Fidel" below the flyer.

I still can't find the reference to the placard in the attic that I seem to have remembered in the archives, but I do see a brown piece of cardboard found at the Magazine residence on 11/23/63, two months after they moved out, with the aforementioned Hands off Cuba flyer pasted to it. No reference to "Viva Fidel", for whatever reason - maybe Oswald removed this hand-printed statement at some point?

The August placard also seems similar to the April placard, which reportedly said from the hasty glance of a cop: "Hands Off Cuba. Viva Fidel."

This may explain a lot of the placard story.

How did his neighbor Gladys Rodgers know or remember that Bill Stuckey visited Oswald in August? That's probably true, but bizarre that she knew or remembered.

You can catch two glimpses of a placard around Oswald's neck in the footage young James "Jim" Doyle took of him on 8/09/63 in New Orleans. Doyle's sister saw the placard and claimed that it said "Viva la Fidel" (which my Hispanic friends tell me is bad Spanish -- it should have said "Viva Fidel"). See my posts, above.

--Tommy

[Tom Hume]

My brief take on the 214 West Neely Street address is on the Oswald Code thread.

Tommy, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that you are correct, that the sign actually read: “VIVA FIDEL”. This anagrams to:

“A DF LIE. IVV”

“DF” would be “David Ferrie” and “IVV” would be “Igor V Vaganov”.

Also, using “ICO’s” binary code, “VIVA FIDEL” decodes to (Footnote #1):

“D ‘E’. LEE IVV”

“D” would be “David”, and “E” is the “ICO” puzzle designation for the assassination.

Tom

Footnote #1 – VIVA FIDEL

VIVAFI = 101010, and, 010101, plus tags DEL

Yield: EDEL

LEDIFA = 101010, and, 010101, plus tags VIV

Yield: EVIV. Total yield: EDELEVIV anagram: “D ‘E’. LEE IVV”