Websites and Copyright

[Graham Davies]

The following publication is probably what we have needed for a long time. It has only just come to my attention. It answers most of the questions surrounding copyright in the context of the development of e-learning materials. The publication appears at the Legal Information website of the Joint Information Systems Committee (JISC), which is funded by the UK further and higher education funding councils:

Casey J. (2004) Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) in networked e-learning: a beginners guide for content developers: http://www.jisclegal.ac.uk/publications/johncasey_1.htm

The publication is described as follows at the above website:

"This guide aims to provide a user-friendly introduction to IPR issues for e-learning content developers and managers. It is intended to act as a point of entry to the field of IPR in e-learning that will provide a good foundation for building expertise in the e-learning developer community. It deals with the basic aspects of IPR, especially copyright, in e-learning content development, with an emphasis on reusing third party materials to create new resources. The guide has been written by an e-learning content developer who has had to deal with these issues in practice. The style of the guide is practical and approachable with many useful tips and observations but it also provides a sketch of the wider issues. It also provides flow diagrams, templates, case studies and further sources of information and guidance."

Another interesting note:

"The right of John Casey to be identified as the author of this work has been asserted by him in accordance with the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 (as amended)."

[Guest]

I am sorry Graham but I think you are in grave danger of scaring people off from writing a single published word on the Internet ... this is surely not your intention??

[Graham Davies]

Andy writes:

I am sorry Graham but I think you are in grave danger of scaring people off from writing a single published word on the Internet ... this is surely not your intention??

No, this is not my intention at all. My intention is simply to raise awareness of copyright issues and to prevent teachers getting into hot water and possibly becoming embroiled in legal actions against them or their employers. A new profession, the copyright bounty hunter, is emerging. Copyright bounty hunters use software packages to trawl the Web looking for breaches of copyright and then "shop" the offenders to the copyright owners in exchange for a substantial fee. Copyright bounty hunters are well established in the USA. There is also the possibility - and there are documented cases - where a disgruntled employee, student or parent might "shop" a teacher simply out of malice. A parent of a child at my local school reported the school (anonymously and behind their back) to the Federation Against Software Theft (FAST) for illegally distributing copies to children of a software program that I had written. The parent was stupid, however, and could have checked with me or the school that I had a financial agreement with the school whereby they were allowed to distribute copies of my software to children.

However, it's not all bad news. Copyright legislation works in both directions. Under recent EU legislation, you will find that even as an employee or a free-lancer working under a contract where copyright is assigned to a third party, you still have certain "moral rights" with regard to anything you create, such as the right to be identified as the author of a work ("paternity right"), the right not have a work falsely attributed to you, not to have your work subjected to derogatory treatment ("integrity right"), and the right to ask for your name to be removed from unapproved versions of a work and to request that a notice be attached stating that the work is being issued against your wishes.

This has important implications for authors. I often hear from teachers who complain about their work being incorporated anonymously into other works and amended without their consent. Now you can assert your rights!

John Casey's guide, which I cited in my last message, clarifies the confused situation that has arisen as a result of everyone having the opportunity to become an author or publisher since the advent of the Web. The EU Directive that was incorporated in October 2003 into the amendments to the 1988 Act addresses the changed situation that has arisen as a result of the spread of electronic publishing.

[Guest]

I can understand your concern about software theft when your livelihood is in part dependent on software sales. Incidentally I have a rather nice Windows compatible and highly illegal version of John Simkin's old BBC Battle of the Somme simulation software. I downloaded this in perfect innocence from what appeared to be a legitimate business - I paid around £30 for a licence! John being the lovely old geezer that he is still lets me use it despite its origin.

Such activity is however entirely different from a new webmaster say deriving some content from something published freely on say My Webpage and placing a link back to me on their site.

It would be a real shame if this interesting discussion put newbie webmasters off creating useful free content for their colleagues in other institutions to use. This is what I am afraid you are in danger of doing.

[Graham Davies]

Andy writes:

It would be a real shame if this interesting discussion put newbie webmasters off creating useful free content for their colleagues in other institutions to use. This is what I am afraid you are in danger of doing.

I don't see the problem and I don't see the danger. As editor of the ATW-approved (and completely free) ICT4LT website(clickable from the top of the Education Forum page), I have overseen the creation of the equivalent of 600+ pages of A4 of informatiion relating to ICT and learning and teaching foreign languages. It's all original stuff and the contributors were (a) paid fees for creating it and ( properly acknowledged as the authors. There is also a rake of original free stuff available at my business website. I practise what I preach.

Piecing together a site containing chunks of other people's work without asking their permission is (a) extremely discourteous and ( probably illegal. It's this attitude that I am trying to discourage. As John Casey puts it in the document that I cited earlier, it's a matter of "getting the right mind-set". Newbie webmasters should read John Casey's document carefully. If you set yourself up as a publisher - and this is what you are doing if you set up a new website - you have to abide by the rules.

[Guest Chris Sweeney]

Perhaps the point has been reached, Graham, where your viewpoint has been expounded enough for us - your fellow professionals - to have understood it?

In which case you do not need to keep expounding it with quite the vigour that you have done in the recent past.

You say:

My intention is simply to raise awareness of copyright issues and to prevent teachers getting into hot water and possibly becoming embroiled in legal actions against them or their employers.

I think we have understood that through your numerous references to it on many threads.

Unless you are an advocate of the nanny-state and as such do not believe we are capable of making our own decisions, perhaps you could now let us make own own beds to lie upon?

[Guest]

Perhaps the point has been reached, Graham, where your viewpoint has been expounded enough for us - your fellow professionals - to have understood it?

In which case you do not need to keep expounding it with quite the vigour that you have done in the recent past.

You say:

My intention is simply to raise awareness of copyright issues and to prevent teachers getting into hot water and possibly becoming embroiled in legal actions against them or their employers.

I think we have understood that through your numerous references to it on many threads.

Unless you are an advocate of the nanny-state and as such do not believe we are capable of making our own decisions, perhaps you could now let us make own own beds to lie upon?

I am sure we are all delighted to see this development in Chris Sweeney's understanding of these issues. We aim to educate after all

On a more serious note, I agree entirely with Graham's comments pasted below

Piecing together a site containing chunks of other people's work without asking their permission is (a) extremely discourteous and ( probably illegal. It's this attitude that I am trying to discourage

[Graham Davies]

Chris writes:

Unless you are an advocate of the nanny-state and as such do not believe we are capable of making our own decisions, perhaps you could now let us make own own beds to lie upon?

I'm not too keen on the nanny-state, but I do believe in upholding the law. It is quite clear from numerous emails that I have read in numerous discussion lists that awareness of copyright law in the teaching profession as a whole is at a very low level. I'm therefore delighted that the points I have made are getting through.

[Anders MacGregor-Thunell]

In that respect I'm very happy that I could stand out as an ignorant teacher with the need to find out more about copyright on the net.

I must say though (which probably will make you all happy) - my "weblife" got a bit more complicated... I sincerely hope that this discussion will continue when it's necessary. I learned a lot from your postings Graham (and others) and I wish to thank you for that.

[Graham Davies]

Anders writes:

I sincerely hope that this discussion will continue when it's necessary. I learned a lot from your postings Graham (and others) and I wish to thank you for that.

Many thanks, Anders! I am, of course, aware that I do ramble on a bit and I've been admonished three times in this Forum for doing so - but that's water off a duck's back to a curmudgeonly old git of 62 years of age. I therefore promise to shut up, take my greyhound for longer walks and play more golf. In future, I shall just refer people to the Web page on copyright that I have created. It's continually updated, e.g. today: http://www.ict4lt.org/en/en_copyright.htm

[Guest Chris Sweeney]

I would like to get this clear - and Andy may feel it relevant to mock me - but at what point does advice stop being advice?

I value - and I add I really DO value - Graham's contributions to this site about copyright. I have told Graham this on another thread where his advice was sufficient to stop me posting someone else's material and to guide me in taking action against someone who took my material without permission.

But at what point does advice - oft repeated - become simply something which shuts a thread down?

Honestly, Graham, I have added the pages to the links you have suggested to my favourites. But beyond that - should we, the posters on this site, just get on with it?

What ultimately concerns me is that this Board is going to be stifled. I belong to an INTERNET site for the teachers of English upon which I am generally respected - or at at well known! Yet, on the whole, having registered on this board, the members of it no longer use this site. Yet I feel it has tremendous potential and I want to see us all use it to its fullest extent.

If copyright is so tricky, how can teachit survive, or Mark Boardman's Language List? English teacher find these sites a REAL practical - key word - PRACTICAL - help. Yet they will not, as a whole, use this board.

After you have warned us, Graham, surely the responsibility is not yours? Surely the Admin of this board will invite you to help them administer if it they wish this? Until then, allow it To expand a little.

Please - and 'Anders' (how boy's own club is that? Graham?) - I appeal to you too - let us have a go at seeing what us English members can come with.

Honestly, lads, I AM on your side!

Edited October 9, 2004 by Chris Sweeney

[Graham Davies]

Chris raises several interesting points.

Firstly, I’ve promised to shut up about IPR and copyright, so I’m not offering anything new from now on. My greyhound got a long walk today!

Secondly, I don’t feel I am competent to offer the administrators of this Forum professional advice or help regarding IPR and copyright. Everything that I have mentioned is publicly available on sites maintained by professionals – and I have posted details of the relevant URLs in this Forum. From what I know of the background of the administrators of this Forum, they know what they are doing, and I am happy just to play a minor role as Moderator of the MFL section of this Forum – which has livened up a little bit lately – and to contribute to other sections that I find interesting. By the way, my second interest after MFL is English, which I taught as a foreign language for a period of around 20 years to students training to become translators and interpreters. ICT has been an interest of mine since 1976, which initially captured my interest as a translator and teacher of theory and critique of translation, after which I got interested in computer assisted language learning. I am now interested in a wide range of language-related topics, which is reflected in my personal annotated list of "Favourite Websites":

http://www.camsoftpartners.co.uk/websites.htm

Thirdly, Teachit will surely survive. The site looks good, it appears that Siobhain has things well under control, and she had done the right thing in seeking professional legal advice (expensive, as she says!) regarding IPR and copyright issues.

As for the purpose of this Forum, I enjoy it as a general education discussion forum. Subject-specific forums are equally enjoyable, although I find that their contributors tend to focus somewhat too narrowly on their own subject area. I spread myself around a bit, although topics such as the JFK assassination leave me stone-cold, but I can choose to ignore such topics, while appreciating that they fascinate other people. I subscribe to the Linguanet Forum, which consists mainly of MFL teachers in secondary education. It goes seriously white-hot at times, e.g. when the GCSE results came out this summer, but it is also a fun forum, where topics such as (currently) Kennedy’s supposed blunder in referring to himself as a “jam doughnut” in his 1963 speech in Berlin come up for discussion: http://www.mailbase.org.uk/lists/linguanet-forum. Linguanet does offer practical advice too, but mainly in the form of answers to specific questions and problems that MFL teachers have. There is no reason why the Education Forum should not do the same – in fact it does, and I have learned a lot from this Forum. But posting materials for classroom use in a forum is fraught with problems – for the reasons that I have raised over and over again - and better left to dedicated sites such as Teachit and (for French) Linguascope (http://www.linguascope.com), which has an excellent resource sharing area. Linguascope is managed by Stephane Derône, a teacher of French who probably works all hours under the sun to keep his site going. This kind of service does not come for free – at least not indefinitely, as sooner or later people need to be paid to do the work. Linguascope was free at one time but it now operates a subscription service. I am hanging on by the skin of my teeth keeping the ICT4LT site going free of charge, but I am retired, have time on my hands and don’t need the money

[Anders MacGregor-Thunell]

After you have warned us, Graham, surely the responsibility is not yours? Surely the Admin of this board will invite you to help them administer if it they wish this? Until then, allow it To expand a little.

Please - and 'Anders' (how boy's own club is that? Graham?) - I appeal to you too - let us have a go at seeing what us English members can come with.

Honestly, lads, I AM on your side!

I am very interested in what ever can come up since I just now sense a lot of work (not necessarily limitations - but quite some work) to develope the ideas I had about a part of Modern History after 1945... (that includes photographs, audiomaterial, videomaterial etc...). Since I'm obviously not a native speaker (Swedish is my native tongue) I don't understand

(how boy's own club is that? Graham?).

Can you explain this expression? Edited October 11, 2004 by Anders MacGregor-Thunell

[Guest Andrew Moore]

Boy's Own was a comic/magazine that became popular in Britain in the 19th century. See www.philsp.com/data/data041.html

It is normally used as an adjective or adverb phrase either affectionately, or with a mild sense of ridicule, to indicate the values of the magazine - which has tales of adventure in exotic locations, and attitudes to other cultures that might now be seen as imperialist.

The term is often used very loosely by people who do not know the original magazines to indicate values and attitudes that are typical of young men. One of the more popular of the 1990s "boy bands" used it punningly in their name of Boyzone.

I'm not sure what connotations Chris meant to convey with it. It's perhaps not a phrase one would use for an international audience, since it is a peculiarly British (if not English) idiom and rather obscure.

I think that by "English" Chris meant nothing about nationality, but referred to the users of the English (language and literature) area of this Forum...

There is a real and interesting tension in this debate about copyright. We all need to live which usually means that we have, too, to find work. Some of us can do that by receiving payment from the public purse (which, of course, is filled by taxes on private enterprise), and can give things away. Some of us need to be paid directly or indirectly for our activities. That can enable us to work at things full time, and make better products - but means, too, that we need to sell them somehow to keep doing it.

Copyright arose historically to redress an imbalance. In many respects it works well still. But there are contexts where people will use it to frighten us into not doing things that are perfectly legitimate and fair.

[Graham Davies]

"Boys' Own Club"

This implies an understanding of the cultural background of my childhood years of the 1940s and 1950s. Boys and girls all read comic books in those days, one of which was called "Boys' Own Paper". There was also "The Eagle" and "The Rover". There were also comic books for girls such as "Girls' Crystal" and "Bunty". The sexual divide in those days was very marked. Boys were offered adventure stories, war stories and sports stories in their comics. As for the girls' comics, typically I never read them so I don't know what they contained! See:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/British-comics

A "Boys' Own Club" is a club that is exclusively for boys - part of the same culture as the comics to which I refer. I don't think such clubs are so popular now as they were in my youth, and the term now has a strong element of irony, e.g. one might refer to an exclusively male preserve of any sort as a "Boys' Own Club".

Christine Sweeney appears to be saying that this section of the Forum is like a "Boys' Own Club" and she's offering to become a member. No further comment! This article is a good illustration of the use of the term:

http://www.defenestrationmag.net/prose/amcvety.htm

Anders, don't get too anxious about the work involved in seeking permissions. You will probably find that many people are willing to give you permission to make their materials public, providing it is in a non-commercial context. Leaving copyright aside, it is only courteous to ask someone if you can make their materials public.