Daniel Gallup Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Daniel, will this gif that bill miller did for all, some time back showing debris out the back of JFK'S head help, there is another re nix when i can find it, i will post it for you..you must click it on to work, for some reason, ..b Bernice, many thanks. That one can see something leaving the back of Kennedy's head in a film of rather poor resolution begs the question why this wasn't seen in the Z-film, which is so much better resolution. Since Bill Miller posted this, I would assume Bill, you have a good answer to this question. If so thank you for it. Best, DAniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Gallup Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Daniel, found the wee other nix gif, that shows matter being seen,flying out of his head.towards the back.....b Again, thanks Bernice. The gif is in slow motion, but the piece or pieces are easily seen. Again, this is troubling to me and seems on the surface, anyway, to contradict Bill Miller's claim that Z-s camera could not catch this motion. I will let him or anyone else weigh in. Best, Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Daniel, will this gif that bill miller did for all, some time back showing debris out the back of JFK'S head help, there is another re nix when i can find it, i will post it for you..you must click it on to work, for some reason, ..b Bernice, many thanks. That one can see something leaving the back of Kennedy's head in a film of rather poor resolution begs the question why this wasn't seen in the Z-film, which is so much better resolution. Since Bill Miller posted this, I would assume Bill, you have a good answer to this question. If so thank you for it. Best, DAniel your welcome Daniel, Bill made the first gif i posted for you,i know, i have it marked, i do not know now who made this second one, sorry bout that but whomever, it is a great little gif, i have asked in the past who made it for us, but no one has ever stated it was theirs so, i have no idea......thanks b ...agreed as they say, seeing is believing...good luck... b Edited June 11, 2011 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Quote: Robin did you notice on the penn jones print out, info, in the other thread on the official w/c pages info, there is no Chaney listed......??? I will have a look Bernice Going by Trask's schematic above the mage below would show Chaney closest to the Limo, and Jackson on his right. Jackson was the motorcycle rider who we see going wide during the turn from Houston to Elm in the zapruder film great snap of hill, thnks..i found chaney...http://www.history-m...Vol20_0255a.htm chaney...page 489 w/c b Thanks Bernice That's a keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Robin, just for the sake of argument: Chaney rides ahead, tells Curry of the shooting as the Limo then speeds up and with Curry they hightail it out of there with Chaney behind since the three other motorcycle officers are already ahead with Curry. This would explain Hargis' claim of Chaney riding forward, the limo stop, and the McIntire picture. Posssible? Best, Daniel The Bell film shows the lead car, the limo, and the follow up car going underneath the overpass. No Chaney The Daneil film shows the lead car, the limo, and the follow up car coming out from underneath the overpass. No Chaney If Hargis is correct about Chaney, could Chaney be with Curry under the underpass in the shadows, and that is why he is not seen in the Bell film? It seems odd to me that except for that black and white you posted where the limo is well beyond the underpass and Curry underneath it, that we have no film showing Chaney's position in the way we have of Hargis and Martin. One might argue he was in the shadows under the underpass just as Hargis said. Would a lightening of the underpass area reveal anything? Just wondering, Daniel In my opinion Hargis isn't correct, that is the point ! i believe in all the confusion it is possible he has mis-remembered the events. Quote: It seems odd to me that except for that black and white you posted where the limo is well beyond the underpass and Curry underneath it, that we have no film showing Chaney's position in the way we have of Hargis and Martin. Thats because there isn't any, doesn't that tell you something. I am just wasting my time here Daniel, we are just going around and around in circles. You seem to have some sort of fixation on Hargis's evidence as though his memory was infalible. He had just been sprayed with blood and brain tissue, was running around all over the place, it was a madhouse Look at him in Bond 4 he doesn't know whether he is coming or going. Remember that Chaney was on the rear right of the LIMO to get to Currys car he would have to swing from right to left across in front of the limo or follow up car. Altgen's 7 just as the lead car reaches the shadow area of the overpass No Motorcycles to be seen anywhere, and that includes Chaney If you wan't to stick with Hargis's evidence as the last word Good luck I am done with it . Edited June 11, 2011 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Gallup Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [ Remember that Chaney was on the rear right of the LIMO to get to Currys car he would have to swing from right to left across in front of the limo or follow up car. Altgen's 7 just as the lead car reaches the shadow area of the overpass No Motorcycles to be seen anywhere, and that includes Chaney If you wan't to stick with Hargis's evidence as the last word Good luck I am done with it . Robin, thanks for the information. Didn't mean to annoy you -- my questions were sincere and I am glad you answered them. Best, Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Rigby Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Since we don't see it on film, Yarborough was probably smoking pot when he described what happened. (Sarcasm intended)chris There must have been quite a bit of that sort of thing going on that day, Chris - and I thought Texas was a conservative sort of place: 1) Earl Cabell: “No; we couldn't tell. We could tell, of course, there was confusion in the presidential car--activity. The Secret Service men ran to that car,” 7WCH479.2) James Chaney and other unnamed Dallas officers, as related by fellow motorcycle outrider, Marrion L. Baker: “I talked to Jim Chaney…during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get into the car…from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped…I heard several of them say that, Mr. Truly he was standing out there, he said it stopped. Several officers said it stopped completely,” 3WCH265. 3) Norman Similas: “I swung back to look at the car. A Secret Service man ran up with his gun drawn…The Secret Service man opened the car door and I saw the President slumped down to the floor…,” Source: “‘I saw president fall’ – Willowdale man,” Toronto Daily Star, (All Star Night edition), Friday, 22 November 1963, pp.1&13 4) Robert Baskin: “The motorcade ground to a halt. There was a good deal of activity round the President’s car, with Secret Service men running about,” “Day Began As Auspiciously As Any in Kennedy’s Career,” The Dallas Morning News, 23 November 1963, p.2 5) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles): "After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car," Larry Sneed. No More Silence (1998), p. 134 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [ Remember that Chaney was on the rear right of the LIMO to get to Currys car he would have to swing from right to left across in front of the limo or follow up car. Altgen's 7 just as the lead car reaches the shadow area of the overpass No Motorcycles to be seen anywhere, and that includes Chaney If you wan't to stick with Hargis's evidence as the last word Good luck I am done with it . Robin, thanks for the information. Didn't mean to annoy you -- my questions were sincere and I am glad you answered them. Best, Daniel No Problem Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Hi Daniel, in looking i found a couple of studies done by Jack White,and frank agbat a great imo, slo mo, gif of the motorcycles movements from nix i believe..... fyi........b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Quote: from a previous thread Robin, The officer in the south lane in your Daniel film blowup is B.J. Martin. Martin rode at the left rear of JFK with Bobby Hargis. The officer in the north lane in the McIntire photo is Jim Chaney. Chaney rode on the right side with Doug Jackson. Both men slowed, but Chaney took off right away. That Daniel frame is 15-20 seconds after the head shot. As Chief Curry told me in 1979, he spoke with Chaney on the access ramp to Stemmons. At that time, the McIntire photo was unknown, but now I know that the area to which Curry referred was past McIntire's location. And Mel McIntire's photos were never out of his possession at any time. They were first published in 1983 in a Dallas Times Herald 20th anniversary special. Gary Mack My reply It is now clear to me that Chaney didn't catch up to the Curry car until AFTER they reached the Stemmons access ramp. After the McIntire photo's were taken. Taken from the thread: Motorcycle Officers "Martin & Chaney" http://educationforu...showtopic=15281 Edited June 12, 2011 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) New Email Robin, The Chaney matter was solved decades ago: http://educationforu...showtopic=15281 In addition, Chris Scally is correct saying Chaney appears in the left edge or sprocket hole area of the Daniel film approaching the triple underpass. Groden made blowups from the original Daniel film (which NO investigators ever saw until he sent it to the HSCA) and there are a couple frames in which he can be seen. Groden didn't put that sequence on his DVD, but he gave me a video tape dub. Gary Mack Quote: Robin: You beat me to it. An ISP connectivity problem prevented me posting this a few days ago: - DPD Officer Earle Brown, on the railway overpass above Stemmons, told Earl Golz in March 1980 that he saw the limo and 4 other cars stop on the Stemmons on-ramp for at least 30 secs. Brown later repeated his story for Gary Mack; - Officer Doug Jackson told Mack in 1981 that he and Chaney raced after lead car, caught up with it after about 30 secs, and Chaney spoke through window to Curry; - Curry told another researcher (whose name I cannot recall at this moment) in 1979 that Chaney caught up with him as they began climbing the Stemmons on-ramp; - Curry told Mack that he slowed down in order to find out if anyone had been hit, as he was unaware that anyone had been hit until Chaney told him. He also said he then had to tell the limousine driver, Secret Service agent Bill Greer, how to get to Parkland Hospital, before issuing “Go to hospital” order; - Curry told the Warren Commission that he did not transmit on Channel 2 until after he spoke to Motorcycle Officer Jim Chaney; - DPD Officer Courson said lead car had slowed sufficiently for him to catch it on the Stemmons access road, and Courson was 100-120 feet behind McLain in the motorcade, and McLain was himself about 140 feet behind the Presidential limo when the shots were fired. (Courson was appprox. 80 yds behind JFK at Z-313); - Chaney is in the extreme left edge of the Daniel film (in the inter-sprocket images, I believe) , and in the Mel McIntire photo - in both cases, he hasn't yet caught up with Curry; Chris Scally Edited June 12, 2011 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Quote: Here's a photo showing the second underpass. In 1963 you had to pass under three lanes of freeway to get to the Stemmons on ramp from Dealey Plaza. Jerry Logan Quote: As Chief Curry told me in 1979, he spoke with Chaney on the access ramp to Stemmons. At that time, the McIntire photo was unknown, but now I know that the area to which Curry referred was past McIntire's location. And Mel McIntire's photos were never out of his possession at any time. They were first published in 1983 in a Dallas Times Herald 20th anniversary special. Gary Mack Overhead showing the " access ramp to Stemmons " where Curry say's he spoke to Officer Chaney Photo Credit : Jerry Logan Edited June 12, 2011 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 In Summary Hargis's Testimony was probably correct. But Chaney was too slow off the mark, and didn't manage to catch up to the lead car and speak to Curry until it reached the Stemmons access ramp. After the Limo had already past the lead car and was on it's way to Parkland Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Here is Curry's testimony...b.... http://mcadams.posc....mony/curry1.htm A sharp report as a firecracker or as it was it was the report of this rifle. We were just approaching an underpass, and there were some people around on each side of the underpass, up in the railroad yards, and I thought at first that perhaps this was a railroad torpedo, it was a sharp crack. Inspector--no, it wasn't Inspector, it was Lawson of the Secret Service and Mr. Sorrels of the Dallas office of the Secret Service, and Sheriff Bill Decker and myself were in this car. Mr. DULLES - I may be anticipating. Mr. RANKIN - That is all right, go right ahead. Mr. CURRY - I said what was that, was that a firecracker, or someone said this, I don't recall whether it was me or someone else, and from the report I couldn't tell whether it was coming from the railroad yard or whether it was coming from behind but I said over the radio, I said, "Get someone up in the railroad yard and check." And then about this time, I believe it was motorcycle Officer Chaney rode up beside of me and looking back in the rear view mirror I could see some commotion in the President's car and after this there had been two more reports, but these other two reports I could tell were coming behind instead of from the railroad yards. Mr. RANKIN - What do you mean by reports? Mr. CURRY - Sharp reports as a rifle or a firecracker, and looking in the rear view mirror then I could see some commotion in President Kennedy's car. Mr. RANKIN - You could distinctly hear and tell that the two later reports were from behind? Mr. CURRY - Behind. Mr. RANKIN - Rather than front? Mr. CURRY - That is right. Mr. RANKIN - You weren't sure whether the first one was from behind or in front? Mr. CURRY - I couldn't tell because perhaps of the echo or the---- Representative FORD - Where were you sitting in the car, sir? Mr. CURRY - I was driving. Representative FORD - You were driving? Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir. Representative FORD - When you heard the first report, did you grab a communications set and give this order? Mr. CURRY - Almost immediately. Representative FORD - What was the order that you gave? Mr. CURRY - As I recall it, "Get someone up in the railroad yard to check those people." There was already an officer up there. Mr. RANKIN - How do you know that? Mr. CURRY - They assigned officers to every overpass. We went with the Secret Service, Batchelor and Chief Lunday had went over this route with Secret Service agents Lawson and Sorrels and they had run the route 2 or 3 days prior to this and pointed out every place where they wanted security officers, and we placed them there where they asked for them. Mr. RANKIN - Did you see an officer there when you looked up? Mr. CURRY - I couldn't recognize him, but I could see an officer whoever it was. Representative FORD - Did you get this order over the PA system before the second and third shots? Mr. CURRY - I don't believe so, I am not sure. I am not positive. Because they were in pretty rapid succession. But after I noticed some commotion in the President's car and a motorcycle officer ran up aside of me and I asked him what had happened and he said shots had been fired, and I said, "Has the President been hit or has the President's party been hit? And he said, "I am sure they have." I said, "Take us to the hospital immediately," and I got on the radio and I told them to notify Parkland Hospital to stand by for an emergency, and this is approximately, I would say, perhaps a couple of miles or so to Parkland Hospital from this, and we went to Parkland and I notified them to have them to be standing by for an emergency, and we went out there under siren escort and went into the emergency entrance. As I recall, I got out of the car and rushed to the emergency entrance -- Edited June 12, 2011 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 In Summary Hargis's Testimony was probably correct. But Chaney was too slow off the mark, and didn't manage to catch up to the lead car and speak to Curry until it reached the Stemmons access ramp. After the Limo had already past the lead car and was on it's way to Parkland Robin. Hi Robin, thanks for the underpass shot......rereading Curry it does not sound like the limo has passed the lead car as Curry states he looked behind and could see the commotion in the pres.car..''.And then about this time, I believe it was motorcycle Officer Chaney rode up beside of me and looking back in the rear view mirror I could see some commotion in the President's car and after this there had been two more reports, but these other two reports I could tell were coming behind instead of from the railroad yards.'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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