John Simkin Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Irving Kupcinet was given his own column for the Chicago Sun-Times. Over the years, his column was distributed to more than 100 newspapers around the world. In 1952 Kupcinet became a television talk show host on CBS. Five years later he replaced Jack Parr on NBC’s America After the Dark, which eventually became The Tonight Show. He also appeared in two movies produced by Otto Preminger, Anatomy of a Murder (1959) and Advise and Consent (1962). His daughter, Karyn Kupcinet, became an actress and appeared in The Ladies' Man (1961). Irv Kupcinet knew Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones Irv kept in contact with Ruby and discovered that he was involved in a plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn. In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones reports that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed." Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved. Some researchers claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case." http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKkupcinet.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Collins Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) Irv and his daughter Karyn, had no foreknowledge of the Kennedy Assassination. There was an Oxnard, CA call, but it wasn't Karyn. I have read absolute bull---- written about her on the Internet. A woman got onto an operator's phone and was saying Kennedy would be dead at 10:10 am PT. Kennedy was shot at 12:30 pm CT, a result of the motorcade being late. This woman was performing a Rosicrucian ceremony and the telephone, being electronic, helped her do this. Karyn Kupcinet was in West Hollywood, packing to go to Palm Springs for the rest of the weekend with her boyfriend, Andrew Prine (with whom she was having problems) and another couple. Karyn died in her house on Thanksgiving and wasn't found for 3 days. The coroner said she died from strangulation. A short time afterwards they exhumed the bodies of 2 women who he said died from strangulation. They both died of other causes. The coroner was let go. I don't know what happened to him. All of this must have reached Irv. But the entire family believed David Lange, her neighbor downstairs, killed her. He told the cops he came home very drunk that night at 12:30 am and fell into bed. This was the time sheriffs felt she was murdered. It just fit in that way. But they could not connect him to the crime. Irv Kupcinet and Jack Ruby were mere acquaintances from decades earlier. Ruby took over the Unions in the late '40's, but didn't last. He moved to Dallas. Was Karyn actually strangled to death? Was she murdered? Even Cyril Wecht pondered this. You can't call it. Missing were 100 methamphetamine pills. She had the prescription filled 2 days before her death. Kathy C Edited September 18, 2011 by Kathleen Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Irv Kupcinet had to know much more than he ever disclosed.: ........... Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Page 179by Peter Dale Scott - History - 1996 "....Blakey chose to link Rosselli to Trafficante, by citing his "management role" in the Havana Sans Souci casino. More pertinent was probably the fact that the Sans Scouci was operated, at this time, by Dave Yaras and Lenny Patrick, the suspected killers of James Ragen (9 AH 948). Also at this time, Rosselli's most constant companion was "Major" Charkes "Babe" Baron, a suspected murderer who was also a brigadier-general in the Illinois National Guard. Baron was a protege of Chicago Democratic machine leader Jake Arvey, as were Yaras and Patrick; and an even closer friend of Patrick Hoy, the Henry Crown employee at General Dynamics who arranged for Sidney Korshak to work for Hilton Hotels. Hoy was also the general manager of the Sherman Hotel in Chicago, a hangout frequented ny Ruby and Jones in 1947 (22 WH 366; 24 WH 518 Chicago crime commission, report, 1963)" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=queen+seat+pat+hoy+at+his+farm&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= "Back in 1958, when Queen Elizabeth II dropped in to the Pump Room and its ... Then they shipped the 'throne' off to hotelier Pat Hoy's farm,... http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=hoy+%22know+nothing+about+mixing+concrete%22&btnG=Search+Books Kup's Chicago - Page 53 by Irv Kupcinet - Chicago (Ill.) - 1962 - 286 pages "But I'm a hotelman," Hoy protested. "I know nothing about mixing concrete." "Maybe not," said Crown. "But without being a cook you've done an excellent job of running the Pump Room." Yielding to Crown's persuasion, Hoy began a new career at the age of..... http://www.nwitimes.com/entertainment/columnists/offbeat/article_371aff14-0c99-565a-8204-5f89adb0007e.html ...I feel honored that I had the chance to become friends with Kupcinet late in his career, after I joined the Chicago Headline Club. And when I'd visit him at the apartment home he shared in downtown Chicago with his beloved wife Essie, who died in 2001, he loved to point out he had the original Pump Room Booth One in his home... ....Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1289 - FBI report dated June 5 ... - Dec 25 File of Ivan Bunny which appears frequently in Irv Kupcinet's column... JACK L . RUBY. IIe bought the Clover Bar next to the Sherman Hotel on Clark. Street after selling the Realto .... group of Jewish people which included Ruby, Colitz and their ... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1289.pdf Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1236 - FBI report of interview ... Union Local 20467,. AFL, is quoted in IRV KUPCINET's. column "Chicago ... COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1235. 2. On November 25, 1963, mini, 74PR II : ... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1236.pdf Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1199 - FBI report dated ... - 12/27/08 Commission, IRA COLT= owner of the Clover Bar, and LOUIS. SCHNITZ were friends of RUBY. ... RUBY was at the Clover Bar about five years ago . RUBY at the ... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1199.pdf http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/20th_Issue/arrb_13.htmlARRB 13th Batch The Federal Register February 20,1996 p. 6346-6347 Reviewed by Joseph Backes FBI Documents: Open in Full ...Document # 124-10068-10016 Is a two page document from SAC, Denver to Director dated 11/25/63. DN [ ]-C frequented Clover Bar next door to Sherman Hotel, Chicago, Illinois, 1946 to 1949. He described this bar as a hangout for hoodlum element. At that time it was operated by Ira Colitz who was described as a personal friend of Colonel Jacob Arvey, well known Chicago political figure. Colitz possibly was recently a candidate for Alderman in Chicago and resides in penthouse apartment on Michigan Boulevard. Informant related Jack Ruby, whom he identified from Newspaper photographs, frequented Clover bar in about 1946 or 47 and was an acquaintance of Ira Colitz and possibly was a former school mate of Colitz on the West Side of Chicago. He does not know nature of Ruby's activities in Chicago. ....................... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1451973 NO TITLE pg 2 Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: Gus Alex EXPENSES A D THAT HER JOB AS A CLERK AT THE CONRAD HILTON HOTEL IS ONLY A FRONT TO KEEP HER OCCUPIED DURING THE DAY ALEX ARMED AND DANGEROUS WITH SUICIDAL TENDENCIES .RECEIVED 7:12 AM MN ter If the RIF#: 124-10209-10118 (02/13/62) FBI#: 92-3182-434 Displaying two of the seven pages.: Highlights: (Richard Cain is also involved in the "investigation".) It begins with mobsters talking about the first paragraph of the above article, related to White and the dismissed drunken driving charge. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=136523&relPageId=2 Sid Korshak is instructed to contact Pat Hoy, General Dynamics V.P. to contact the Hilton and instruct employees there not to cooperate with the investigation.: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=136523&relPageId=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Collins Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Irv Kupcinet had to know much more than he ever disclosed.: ........... Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Page 179by Peter Dale Scott - History - 1996 "....Blakey chose to link Rosselli to Trafficante, by citing his "management role" in the Havana Sans Souci casino. More pertinent was probably the fact that the Sans Scouci was operated, at this time, by Dave Yaras and Lenny Patrick, the suspected killers of James Ragen (9 AH 948). Also at this time, Rosselli's most constant companion was "Major" Charkes "Babe" Baron, a suspected murderer who was also a brigadier-general in the Illinois National Guard. Baron was a protege of Chicago Democratic machine leader Jake Arvey, as were Yaras and Patrick; and an even closer friend of Patrick Hoy, the Henry Crown employee at General Dynamics who arranged for Sidney Korshak to work for Hilton Hotels. Hoy was also the general manager of the Sherman Hotel in Chicago, a hangout frequented ny Ruby and Jones in 1947 (22 WH 366; 24 WH 518 Chicago crime commission, report, 1963)" http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai= "Back in 1958, when Queen Elizabeth II dropped in to the Pump Room and its ... Then they shipped the 'throne' off to hotelier Pat Hoy's farm,... http://www.google.co...nG=Search+Books Kup's Chicago - Page 53 by Irv Kupcinet - Chicago (Ill.) - 1962 - 286 pages "But I'm a hotelman," Hoy protested. "I know nothing about mixing concrete." "Maybe not," said Crown. "But without being a cook you've done an excellent job of running the Pump Room." Yielding to Crown's persuasion, Hoy began a new career at the age of..... http://www.nwitimes....89adb0007e.html ...I feel honored that I had the chance to become friends with Kupcinet late in his career, after I joined the Chicago Headline Club. And when I'd visit him at the apartment home he shared in downtown Chicago with his beloved wife Essie, who died in 2001, he loved to point out he had the original Pump Room Booth One in his home... ....Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1289 - FBI report dated June 5 ... - Dec 25 File of Ivan Bunny which appears frequently in Irv Kupcinet's column... JACK L . RUBY. IIe bought the Clover Bar next to the Sherman Hotel on Clark. Street after selling the Realto .... group of Jewish people which included Ruby, Colitz and their ... http://www.history-m...H22_CE_1289.pdf Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1236 - FBI report of interview ... Union Local 20467,. AFL, is quoted in IRV KUPCINET's. column "Chicago ... COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1235. 2. On November 25, 1963, mini, 74PR II : ... http://www.history-m...H22_CE_1236.pdf Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1199 - FBI report dated ... - 12/27/08 Commission, IRA COLT= owner of the Clover Bar, and LOUIS. SCHNITZ were friends of RUBY. ... RUBY was at the Clover Bar about five years ago . RUBY at the ... http://www.history-m...H22_CE_1199.pdf http://www.acorn.net...ue/arrb_13.htmlARRB 13th Batch The Federal Register February 20,1996 p. 6346-6347 Reviewed by Joseph Backes FBI Documents: Open in Full ...Document # 124-10068-10016 Is a two page document from SAC, Denver to Director dated 11/25/63. DN [ ]-C frequented Clover Bar next door to Sherman Hotel, Chicago, Illinois, 1946 to 1949. He described this bar as a hangout for hoodlum element. At that time it was operated by Ira Colitz who was described as a personal friend of Colonel Jacob Arvey, well known Chicago political figure. Colitz possibly was recently a candidate for Alderman in Chicago and resides in penthouse apartment on Michigan Boulevard. Informant related Jack Ruby, whom he identified from Newspaper photographs, frequented Clover bar in about 1946 or 47 and was an acquaintance of Ira Colitz and possibly was a former school mate of Colitz on the West Side of Chicago. He does not know nature of Ruby's activities in Chicago. ....................... http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1451973 NO TITLE pg 2 Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: Gus Alex EXPENSES A D THAT HER JOB AS A CLERK AT THE CONRAD HILTON HOTEL IS ONLY A FRONT TO KEEP HER OCCUPIED DURING THE DAY ALEX ARMED AND DANGEROUS WITH SUICIDAL TENDENCIES .RECEIVED 7:12 AM MN ter If the RIF#: 124-10209-10118 (02/13/62) FBI#: 92-3182-434 Displaying two of the seven pages.: Highlights: (Richard Cain is also involved in the "investigation".) It begins with mobsters talking about the first paragraph of the above article, related to White and the dismissed drunken driving charge. http://www.maryferre...523&relPageId=2 Sid Korshak is instructed to contact Pat Hoy, General Dynamics V.P. to contact the Hilton and instruct employees there not to cooperate with the investigation.: http://www.maryferre...523&relPageId=7 Tom, this is something I came across. It's a post I made years ago on Websleuths.com. I had forgotten about this, but I'd like you to see it. Irv was a Zionist. What is this saying about him? Kathy C "Kathy C12-29-2004, 12:51 AMDear Joellegirl, I looked up that book today re Kupcinet and it returned a weird story of these German children who were molested and killed. It said Irv Kupcinet raised a lot of money for them in the '50's. And then it said maybe it was hush money from the Jewish Sector. I'll keep plugging away on it. Thanks a lot. Kathy C" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Collins Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Tom, this is something I came across. It's a post I made years ago on Websleuths.com. I had forgotten about this, but I'd like you to see it. Irv was a Zionist. What is this saying about him? Kathy C "Kathy C12-29-2004, 12:51 AMDear Joellegirl, I looked up that book today re Kupcinet and it returned a weird story of these German children who were molested and killed. It said Irv Kupcinet raised a lot of money for them in the '50's. And then it said maybe it was hush money from the Jewish Sector. I'll keep plugging away on it. Thanks a lot. Kathy C" I have an interesting quote about the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr. Penn Jones said Jr was kidnapped to shock America. And this is how I feel about Karyn Kupcinet. Her death shocked Chicago. She was so well-known there. She appeared in theater, doing The Chalk Garden, as well as other great plays. Her father always mentioned her in his column. This was a big shock, serving to get Ruby out of the headlines. Kathy C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Collins Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Kathy, Do you really believe that the Karyn and Frank Jr. incidents were enacted to push Ruby from the headlines? This sort of tactic is a standard practice IMHO, but it's hard for me to clearly see how this would really be worthwhile. Were so many Americans really hoodwinked by these crimes? Was providing a small diversion from Ruby really enough to submerge the whole case from public view? Of course, such tactics work very easily in the present day; our attention spans are historically the shortest they've ever been, I'd wager. However, I don't know enough about 1963 to support your theory. If this is your theory, then my guess is that there would have been even more stories generated during that time. Do you know of any? Tom The only stories generated about her were in newspapers. She was found nude, sheets were half pulled off her bed revealing 2 twin mattresses put together, closets open, clothes on the floor, expensive fur and other clothing not touched. A pair of red high heels near the closet. The coroner called it manual strangulation. 3 years later the coroner who worked on Karyn, Harold Kade, made headlines. He was fired because he had a fetish regarding strangled women. They exhumed 2 women he had worked on and neither one was strangled. He said about Karyn in '63 that she had a fractured hyoid bone. His other employees said he was often drunk, and had kidded once, saying, "At least I didn't break the hyoid bone on that one." This had to reach Irv Kupcinet. I can't believe he didn't know this. In March of 1964 movie magazines had picked up on the story. There were a couple of layouts of her with actor Andrew Prine. Some people believe she committed suicide over him. She'd had an abortion in July '63. Mark Goddard, who discovered her body, paid for it. Prine was the police's main suspect. But the Kupcinets believed it was downstairs neighbor, David Lange. He worked as a gofer and was the younger brother of actress Hope Lange. The police couldn't connect him to the crime. He was a heavy drinker, who drove home at 12:30 am and told the police that when questioned. That was the estimated time of death. He said he went right to bed when he got home. Her bathroom was described as neat and orderly. In the medicine cabinet there were several prescription pill bottles. One, filled 2 days before she died, was for Desoxyn, methamphetamine. All 100 tablets were missing. Could someone have killed her for the pills, as nothing else was taken? And made the apartment look like it had been ransacked? Writer James Ellroy wrote about the case in "Crime Wave" and in a December issue of GQ. Another great source is "The Lost World of Kup," in Chicago Magazine shortly after Kup died. Personally, I have a dilemma. It could very well be that Lange killed her. But it could also be a hit from the Chicago mob -- they didn't want anything to do with Kennedy. Or it was suicide. Not even accidental suicide. Did she swallow the 100 missing pills? I'm sure that would have raced her heart and killed her fast. I don't know if they're big pills or little pills. 100 is a lot to swallow. She was also taking thyroid extract, which was outlawed. But female suicides are rarely found naked. She spoke to Prine at midnight and was dead in a half hour. Kathy C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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