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David Josephs

Where is the CHECK/MO for Oswald's $10

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This is the only thing that we have to know A.Hidell ordered a .38

It specifically asks for a CHECK or MO for the $10 (1/3) deposit..

There was no envelope, and once again no proof of delivery.

Since Seaport did ship the pistol, SOMEONE sent a $10 deposit..

Who did - When - & Where is it? Along with the transfer of the $21.22 to Seaport for the balance....

thanks and happy holiday

DJ

The other image is a compilation of the Railway shipping doc and Seaport's doc showing they got the $10 deposit but Not the $1.27 COD charge...

So Kleins ships different rifles for their C20-T750 orders

Lipschultz is okay saying that 900lbs of rifle and cartons costs the same to ship as 750lbs

and now Seaport is just fine with not collecting their COD charges...

good thing all these add up, huh?

DJ

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When interviewed Michaelis stated a number of interesting yet unsupported things including

That the $10 deposit was in cash... yet he says they only rec'd the coupon... no envelope and no mention of the coupon's request that the deposit be check or money order....

He also says that RAILWAY collected the $19.95... NOT as DVP says that Railway sent the pistol to the PO BOX...

and collected the $1.27 and forwarded that to Seaport...

He offers the below Railway doc as proof... not so much, right?

DJ

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David,

Per DVP's website:

HEINZ MICHAELIS -- "That is a copy of the receipt which we got from the Railway Express Agency showing that on March 20, 1963, one carton with a pistol was shipped to A. Hidell, P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Texas. It shows, furthermore, that Railway Express is instructed to collect a c.o.d. fee of $19.95. And it shows furthermore the number of the original receipt, which is 70638."

Seaport shows it got ten dollars CASH, and Josephs correctly asks how the money got to Seaport?

Well if the PO was forwarding monies around for Lee, (hanging my head low in disbelief) then they must have just forwarded the ten bucks too. (picks myself off floor, straightens my tie, and continues typing)

as DVP says:

"I suppose it's possible that I'm wrong about how these types of "COD" transactions worked..."

Ya think?!?!

Yeah have DVP cough up the Jackson pay stub while he's at it.

Oh that's right he can't....Just like a Seaport Check/MO or envelope that would need to hold the coupon and/or ten dollars.

They doesn't exist.

And at this point are fable.

Plus Jim DiEugenio correctly describes the gun as a S&W .38 Special not a Commando. Seaport just called it a commando to prevent confusion with a higher priced snub nose revolver.

DVP tries to argue Smith and Wesson called it a Commando....WRONG! Wrong as wrong can be! Just as he is wrong when it comes to the transactions.

Mr. BALL. It is described as an S. & W. .38 special, 2-inch Commando. What is the meaning of that?

Mr. MICHAELIS. Two inch is the barrel length. Commando is a description which we more or less gave because we have another 2-inch gun at a higher price and, in order that the order filler is able to identify between the two types, we have this type described as Commando.

Facts are not DVP's friend.

Production:

38/200 British Service Revolver (S&W Caliber) - There were over 571,629 of these models produced between October 1941 and May 1945 for the British Common wealth countries. These countries include the Union of South Africa (21,347), Canada (45,328), and Australia (8,000). The remaining 384,100 shipped between 1941 and the end of World War II were supplied by the U.S. Army Ordnance through the lend lease program to Britain for distribution.

Victory model 38 Special – 352,000 shipped to the Army and Navy. Some of these were shipped to a commission responsible for supplying the civilian industries. They will usually have no property marks. Uses included guarding factories, ports, and federal/local government agencies.

Note: You can find all kinds of variations, with additional war and post war markings. These include rebuild markings, country ownership markings, unit markings, and much more. For a complete listing see the books referenced below.

Recommended reading:

US Handguns of WW II - The Secondary Pistols and Revolvers by Charles W. Pate

Americas Right Arm - The S&W Military and Police Revolver by John Henwood

Smith and Wesson 1857 - 1945 by Robert J. Neal and Roy G. Jinks

The Victory model was so named for the "V" prefix which was placed before the serial number and represented "Victory" against the Axis powers in World War II.

Serial numbers for the .38 special Victory model began at about V1 in early 1942 and ran until VS811119 with a date of late August of 1945 (end of production). V1 to approximately V39,999 were predominately .38 S&W Caliber (I have observed revolvers in the 1-40000 range in .38 special caliber). Serial numbers are located on Inside right grip, frame butt, Cylinder, extractor star, and bottom of barrel. Crane and crane recess are also serial numbered to each other, but this is a different number then the revolvers serial number as is correct for Victory model revolvers.

http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/victory_model_smith_and_wesson.htm

The word PAID on the DL-28 was for the TEN DOLLARS deposit. It shows that the $10 was PAID in CASH. If a bad check came in and was rejected by the bank then the word PAID hopefully would not appear on the original invoice... But if cash came in, then yes it would be marked on the DEPOSIT slip as paid and the transaction moves forward.

Jim also tears a new one for Michaelis' accounting. The ten dollars was marked paid on the order, but the $19.95 isn't and we are to accept that. Not so fast! Jim is correct when he says there is no proof the monies were paid.

There should be as that was Michealis' job as a supervisor/manager!!! I would have Seaport rethink its 'management' by Marketeers. I mean for an 'accountant' or supervisory to say the money was paid because I have an order stapled to another copy of the order is flimsy. Yes the white slip was attached to the red one so I know it was paid????

(He NEVER says I know it was paid because I marked it PAID or it was marked paid, I have a signed receipt, cashed check, postal receipt, ledger entry, etc.)

I have to remember not to hire CPA firm of Michaelis and Co. to do my taxes next year or expect an audit.

Ed

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This is the only thing that we have to know A.Hidell ordered a .38

It specifically asks for a CHECK or MO for the $10 (1/3) deposit..

There was no envelope, and once again no proof of delivery.

Since Seaport did ship the pistol, SOMEONE sent a $10 deposit..

Who did - When - & Where is it? Along with the transfer of the $21.22 to Seaport for the balance....

thanks and happy holiday

DJ

The other image is a compilation of the Railway shipping doc and Seaport's doc showing they got the $10 deposit but Not the $1.27 COD charge...

So Kleins ships different rifles for their C20-T750 orders

Lipschultz is okay saying that 900lbs of rifle and cartons costs the same to ship as 750lbs

and now Seaport is just fine with not collecting their COD charges...

good thing all these add up, huh?

DJ

Whose the witness on the recipt - B. F. Drittal again?

BK

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Just because Seaport Traders preferred customers to make payments using check or money order (as all mail-order companies prefer, quite obviously [and today, with credit cards too, of course]), that doesn't mean that Oswald HAD to use such payment methods.

Oswald sent Seaport $10 in cash and paid the COD balance when he picked up the revolver (regardless of WHERE it was that he picked it up, which was probably at the REA Express office in Dallas).*

* = I was originally incorrect about how REA handled "COD" shipments to P.O. Boxes in 1963. And I fully acknowledge that fact in my article on Oswald's revolver, here:

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/DVP Vs. DiEugenio/Part 42

But do the conspiracists in this forum (whose job seemingly is to cast continual and unrelenting doubt on Oswald's guilt, regardless of how flimsy and/or silly their nitpicking theories are) actually think that if Oswald had sent Seaport Traders a ten-dollar bill through the mail (instead of sending the preferred M.O. or check) that Seaport would have REFUSED Oswald's/Hidell's order for the revolver?

Seaport obviously DID receive a $10 payment from Oswald/(Hidell). We know this is true via Heinz Michaelis' WC testimony. And Michaelis said the payment was IN CASH. Michaelis said -- quote -- "We received, together with the order, the amount of $10 in cash."

So why in the world does this thread even exist? It's meaningless and useless. It was started merely for the purpose of casting a shadow of doubt over a subject (Oswald's $10 deposit for the revolver) where absolutely NO DOUBT exists. And such doubt about this matter never did exist.

In short -- There is no doubt whatsoever that Lee Oswald ordered, paid for, and received Smith & Wesson Revolver #V510210 from Seaport Traders in Los Angeles in early 1963. The only people who have the slightest doubt about that fact are people who WANT Oswald to be labelled "innocent" of murdering Officer J.D. Tippit. And to believe that Oswald was innocent of THAT murder too is, frankly, just too silly for a reasonable person to even contemplate.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Jimmy D.,

The proof that Oswald picked up the revolver, regardless of where he picked it up, is the undeniable fact that Mr. Oswald had Revolver V510210 in his hands when he was arrested in the Texas Theater on 11/22/63.

Duh!

Edited by David Von Pein

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And the two NON-POE bullet shells found at the Tippit murder scene match the gun that you conspiracy clowns want to take out of LHO's hands.

Given that FACT, now try to pretend Oswald was innocent of shooting Tippit, Lee. (I'm sure you'll find a way, though, no matter how much real evidence [and witnesses] you have to toss in the trash.)

Edited by David Von Pein

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...and left an indent on one of the shells.

So what? Who cares?

Oswald's V510210 gun was obviously in perfect working order at approx. 1:14-1:15 PM when he plugged Officer Tippit four times with it.

But, as always, hard-nosed conspiracists always prefer to concentrate on meaningless chaff, instead of focusing on the wheat field that is Oswald's guilt.

TIME FOR A THANKSGIVING DAY COMMON-SENSE BREAK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGm_yQsKH0k

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/11/john-mcadams.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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Helen Markham's regular bus had long gone by 1:14pm.

Untrue.

And how did the indent disappear that the arresting officers saw and wrote about in their official reports and discussed with the media?

Do you have any idea WHY this chaff matters in the slightest degree when it comes to proving Oswald's guilt in Tippit's slaying?

You REALLY think the cops switched guns? AND switched the bullet shells that littered Tenth & Patton?

Therefore, if the above things were true, the Dallas cops couldn't have cared less about Tippit's real killer getting away. They were concerned only with framing an innocent man named Oswald for the death of their fellow officer.

Come now, Lee, you don't REALLY believe that kind of silliness, do you?

Edited by David Von Pein

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I already said it doesn't matter to you.

It doesn't matter--period (as far as being able to determine whether or not your prized patsy murdered two people with his own guns on 11/22/63, that is).

Edited by David Von Pein

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...this thread is HOT!

No, this thread (as I mentioned before) is useless and worthless. Merely started to cast doubt about something of which there is NO DOUBT -- Oswald took possession of Revolver V510210. We KNOW he did, because that SAME gun was in his hands in the theater.

Why this stuff is even debated is a mystery to me. (Well, really it's not much of a mystery after you've hung around CT boards like this one for a while. CTers want LHO to be innocent of ALL murders he committed on 11/22. Simple as that.)

Maybe DiEugenio missed this one:

http://hnn.us/articles/mel-ayton-review-jfk-assassination-logic-how-think-about-claims-conspiracy-potomac-books-20

"John McAdams’ book is the final nail in the coffin of conspiracy theorists who have grabbed the attention of the mainstream media for far too long—mainly because the media understands all too well how the public loves a mystery. If John McAdams’ book is read in conjunction with the excellent books mentioned earlier in this review the JFK assassination will be no mystery at all." -- Mel Ayton

Edited by David Von Pein

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As per the DPD being proof that Oswald picked up the revolver, Davey Boy, did the DPD go to REA to check on any witnesses or receipts that Oswald left behind?

Why on Earth would the Dallas Police Department have needed to go to the Railway Express office to confirm Oswald picked up the revolver, when Oswald had that very same gun in his hands when he was arrested in the theater?

Regardless of HOW and WHEN that gun made its way into Oswald's hands on 11/22/63, the undeniable fact is that it DID make it into his hands on November 22nd in the Texas Theater.

DiEugenio's theories are so bizarre that you'd have to be a resident of R.P. McMurphy's asylum to even begin to believe them.

Edited by David Von Pein

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"John McAdams’ book is the final nail in the coffin of conspiracy theorists who have grabbed the attention of the mainstream media for far too long—mainly because the media understands all too well how the public loves a mystery. If John McAdams’ book is read in conjunction with the excellent books mentioned earlier in this review the JFK assassination will be no mystery at all." -- Mel Ayton

More spin than even the great Abdul Qadir could muster.

I have been monitoring media stories during this anniversary. The vast majority came under 4 categories:

King's book

The Lost Bullet documentary

Praise for Posner & Bugliosi and/or ridicule of conspiracy theories

The giving of an award to Johnny Brewer

Most of the remainder were simple remembrances of the event ("where were you when" type pieces...). Those that actually came out in support of a conspiracy could be counted on one hand.

But as usual, you guys won't let the facts get in the way of your propaganda.

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