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David Josephs

Where is the CHECK/MO for Oswald's $10

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This is why I dread having this guy around.

Well, just ignore me, Jimbo. Simple enough, huh?

Or are you being FORCED by an outside entity to respond to everything I say with your Anybody-But-Oswald claptrap?

DVP KNOWS ALL OF THIS AND HE KNOWS IT IS RIDICULOUS.

I just love it when Jimbo tells me that I "know" that some portion (or ANY portion) of his nuttiness regarding Oswald's weapons purchases is "ridiculous".

No, Jimmy, it's not "ridiculous" to think that Oswald ordered, paid for, and took possession of Rifle C2766 and Revolver V510210.

You, Jim, are in the minority on this issue. Even most conspiracy theorists will acknowledge that Oswald ordered the guns. It couldn't be more obvious that he did. Only the outer-fringe conspiracy hacks actually want to believe that he never ordered the guns at all.

For Pete sake, you're shooting your own silly theory in the foot by pretending he DIDN'T order the rifle. Because it makes much more sense, even from your Anybody-But-Oswald POV, to admit he did order C2766, and then that some evil forces decided to frame him WITH HIS OWN GUN. That's much more logical than your craziness about all of the paperwork being phony, etc.

And, in fact, most CTers also admit that Oswald shot Kennedy (at least based on this 2003 ABC poll, which had 1,031 respondents):

Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was the only gunman in the Kennedy assassination, do you think there was another gunman in addition to Oswald there that day, or do you think Oswald was not involved in the assassination at all?.....

ONLY OSWALD ----------- 32%

ANOTHER GUNMAN ------- 51%

OSWALD NOT INVOLVED -- 7%

NO OPINION ------------- 10%

http://www.pollingreport.com/news3.htm#Kennedy

Edited by David Von Pein

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Guest Robert Morrow
You said you can still get him [Oswald] there for 1:06-1:09. Show me.

Sure:

Earlene Roberts was very likely wrong about her "3 to 4 minute" estimate. Oswald, just like Frederic Forrest in the 1978 movie scene I linked to, probably was in his cubbyhole of a room for about 30 seconds, and not anywhere near three or four minutes.

David Belin & Co. walked the distance from Neely & Beckley to 1026 Beckley in 5 min. & 45 sec.

If Oswald had moved considerably faster than Belin's "walking" pace, he could have shaved some time off of Belin's re-creation time and could have likely been inside his room by about 12:57.

He's in his room for 30 seconds, then heads for Tenth Street.

He can positively get to Tenth & Patton in about 11 minutes (that's been done by Dave Perry and others in past reconstructions).

That puts him beside Tippit's patrol car at precisely 1:09. Which, as mentioned, would also have to mean that Domingo Benavides stood beside Tippit's police car picking lint out of his belly button for SEVEN MINUTES before using the police radio. And that is not a reasonable thing to believe, IMO.

"David Belin & Co. walked the distance from Neely & Beckley to 1026 Beckley in 5 min. & 45 sec." ... what a bunch of garbage. No they did not. And you obviously have not, like I have twice. JFK researchers have been walking that route for decades and they are often stunned at how long the walk takes even if you are walking at warp fast walk speed. I power walked as fast as I could and my 2 times were 11 minutes 5 seconds and 10 minutes 25 seconds at a blistering fast walk pace.

Now that con man David Belin may have SAID that he walked it in under 6 minutes, but there is absolutely NO way he did. None. He would have had to be RUNNING at a 6 minute/mile pace to do that because that is about how far it is. Even if you are cutting corners, walking at angles across the street, and there is no car traffic, etc.

David von Pein, YOU need to go walk that route - even RUN it as fast as you can - and see if you can go from Oswald's boarding room to 10th and Patton and see if you can make it. Get in a car and physically measure the distance. No way does anyone - anyone in the WORLD - walk that distance in 5 minutes and 45 seconds.

Go ahead and walk/run/sprint that distance and then tell me what you think of David Belin. And the very fact that David Belin would even say that he walked that in 5 minutes 45 seconds speaks VOLUMES as to Belin's credibility. David Belin, along with Arlen Specter, also invented the Magic Bullet farce.

Edited by Robert Morrow

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Better look again at what I said, Mr. Morrow -- I didn't say that Belin walked from Beckley to Tenth Street in 5:45. Here's what I said:

"David Belin & Co. walked the distance from Neely & Beckley to 1026 Beckley in 5 min. & 45 sec."

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Can't you read? Archer claims that Ruby using the elevator was added in.

Oh, boy! There's a bombshell. That MUST mean there was a cover-up.

Do you really believe that we take anything that you say seriously?

I sure as heck hope not. Otherwise, I'm out of a nice-paying CIA Disinfo job.

So, please Lee, continue to believe stupid xxxx -- like Oswald being innocent of shooting Officer Tippit. (And NOTHING is higher on the "stupid xxxx" scale than that one.)

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Why did Ted Callaway have to ask Domingo Benavides which way the killer went if he saw him and spoke to him?

That's an easy one, Lee:

Since Callaway didn't actually SEE THE MURDER take place, Callaway was merely confirming that the person he saw with a gun on Patton Avenue was, indeed, the ONE & ONLY KILLER of Officer Tippit.

Callaway, at the time, had no way of knowing if there were one, two, or more killers. So it doesn't seem strange that he would want to confirm (in his own mind) that "THE KILLER" escaped down Patton. And he did confirm that via Benavides.

I achieved my goal though -- Because I just knew beyond all doubt that one or more of you conspiracy theorists here at the "Education Forum" would try to paint Ted Callaway as a bald-faced xxxx. And I was 100% correct. You actually think Callaway DIDN'T see anyone run past him on Patton on 11/22. Beautiful.

And I see that DiEugenio decided to wait until Farley posted his inane remarks about Callaway before he chimed in with his confirmation that he, too, disbelieves Callaway.

Two conspiracy mongers for the price of one. Not a bad day's work.

Now, let's move on to William Scoggins (another witness who verifies the presence of Lee Harvey Oswald on Tenth Street during the Tippit murder):

Just exactly how are you guys going to attempt to discredit Mr. Scoggins in order to pretend that your #1 Patsy for all Nov. 22 murders was totally innocent?

I can't wait to hear the CT brilliance.

Edited by David Von Pein

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This seems like a good time to interject the following spot-on quote from Professor McAdams (the logical man all CTers despise more than Hitler). It's a good time to post this quote since, as we can see in this thread about the Tippit murder and the ordering of the Tippit murder weapon by Oswald, many conspiracists will continually reject the best evidence and latch onto the least reliable evidence connected to the various sub-topics associated with the JFK & Tippit murders (just as Lee Farley and Jimbo D. have done, as usual, in this thread):

"Focusing on the most reliable evidence violates the collector's instinct of conspiracy theorists. They collect evidence assiduously, and whoever has the biggest collection is the best researcher—just as the best stamp collector is one who has the largest number and the rarest stamps."

-- John McAdams; Page 157 of "JFK Assassination Logic: How To Think About Claims Of Conspiracy"

http://Quoting-Common-Sense.blogspot.com

Edited by David Von Pein

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Why was Cadigan's testimony altered if not to cover something up?

Prove that anyone's testimony was "altered" in order to engage in a cover-up in the murders of JFK & J.D. Tippit. (Again the bold text is the key phrase.)

Lee, whether you want to believe it or not, there COULD BE (and are) non-conspiratorial explanations for the many things you CTers find "suspicious". The Hosty note being a very good example. And the burning of Humes' notes for another. And the Katzenbach memo for another. And on and on.

But, being a CTer, you refuse to consider ANY non-conspiratorial explanation if it's in competition with a conspiratorial alternative.

And let's face facts -- most things are NOT conspiratorial in life. And the JFK/Tippit murders weren't either.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Let me hear you say it right out loud, Lee. With no ambiguity attached:

Do you think Ted Callaway saw ANYONE with a gun on Patton Avenue just after Tippit was killed on November 22, 1963?

Yes or no.

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This is the only thing that we have to know A.Hidell ordered a .38

It specifically asks for a CHECK or MO for the $10 (1/3) deposit..

And on the line for CHECK (as opposed to the line for MONEY ORDER) was listed $10 dollars. So the question should be...Where is the Check for the $10 dollar deposit?

Till DVP can cough up a Check, by an Oswald or an Hidell, his trying to steer the thread off course will not stand.

Show me where Harry Holmes was asked to go find a $10 dollar Check/MO to Seaport?

Show me where Harry or anyone took it upon themselves to find a Check/MO to Seaport?

If DVP is right (bear with me) if Lee ordered a pistol, why drop this line of investigation and go after all the other bits to put a rifle in his hands, and we are to believe the Check-Money Order-Envelope-etc were not important to Harry Holmes a quote "trained suspicioner"?!?!

Here is the sum total of this inquiry:

Mr. BELIN. Do you have any information on the money order for the pistol or how the pistol was paid for, or was there a money order?

Mr. HOLMES. No, sir.

Nice answer, and as clear as mud...

Ed

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Oh, come on, Ed. Oswald mailed $10 cash to Seaport. We KNOW that, via Michaelis. And since there was no line for "Cash", Oswald merely used the "check" line on the order form.

Why are you calling Michaelis a xxxx when he verified via his WC testimony that Seaport received $10 IN CASH from Oswald/Hidell? Why don't you believe him?

Edited by David Von Pein

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Oh, come on, Ed. Oswald mailed $10 cash to Seaport. We KNOW that, via Michaelis. And since there was no line for "Cash", Oswald merely used the "check" line on the order form.

Why are you calling Michaelis a xxxx when he verified via his WC testimony that Seaport received $10 IN CASH from Oswald/Hidell? Why don't you believe him?

No line for cash because they should not accept cash through the mail!

It was policy to accept payment in the form of MO or Check.

You should 'check' the procedures at that time for selling mail order weapons too.

For Michaelis to be correct it would need to be demonstrated how he came to the 'conclusion' Seaport received this payment. Again no ledger entries were entered into evidence just an order someone wrote paid on.

No accounting of any sort to show Seaport deposited this odd TEN bucks CASH when its pretty clear Seaport took payments as Money Order or Check. Remember Seaport was an offshoot Mail Order Company. So where is Michaelis' ledger book showing deposits on that day for this mail order company?

Okay David, If we know it was cash and the Warren Commission knew it was cash, then...

Why ask Holmes about a Money Order to Seaport? Was Belin just shooting the breeze with Harry?

Ed

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Okay David, If we know it was cash and the Warren Commission knew it was cash, then...Why ask Holmes about a Money Order to Seaport? Was Belin just shooting the breeze with Harry?

Belin was probably inquiring about a possible money order that Oswald might have used to pay the C.O.D. balance of $19.95 (+$1.27) when he picked up the revolver.

What makes you think Belin was talking about Oswald's deposit payment of $10.00?

We have no idea how Oswald paid REA for the balance of the payment. He could have used a money order. Or maybe he again paid cash.

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It was policy to accept payment in the form of MO or Check.

Then why did the Seaport invoices have a check box for "Cash" (such as the invoice for Oswald's revolver purchase seen below....which, btw, clearly indicates that a "Cash" payment was received)?

MichaelisEx2.jpg?t=1280880552

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Once you go and pass your bar-exam you can ask questions like the one above, just as long as I'm in a court and it's you who are examining me. Okay?

Yeah, I didn't think you'd have the 'nads to just answer my Callaway question Yes or No. Just as DiEugenio will never do either. Because you'd be boxed into a ridiculous position either way--which is why I asked the question.

If you answer "Yes, I think Callaway saw a gunman on Patton", then you've got to admit that your question about why Ted asked Domingo which way the killer went was a completely useless question. And if you answer "No", then you're forced to call Callaway an outright xxxx, plus you'd have to admit that several other car-lot workers were liars too--such as Searcy, Reynolds, and Patterson, who all saw the same gunman Callaway saw.

Either way, you look like a goof. As usual.

You probably should have asked me this question regarding Callaway:

Why the heck didn't Callaway ask Scoggins which way the killer went, instead of asking Benavides? After all, Ted was sitting right next to Scoggins in the cab, and Scoggins was a witness at Tenth & Patton too. And also: why didn't Scoggins speak up and ALSO answer Callaway's question that was aimed at Benavides? *

* = Of course, perhaps Scoggins did confirm it. Who knows. We don't know the verbatim words that were exchanged between these guys on Tenth St. on 11/22.

Edited by David Von Pein

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