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Chris Bennett

How did the shooters get in and out of the TSBD?

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The timeline of what happened in the TSBD has been analyzed to death. But most of the onus has been put on whether LHO was (or could have been) on the sixth floor when Kennedy was shot. I accept the fact that it was highly unlikely he was on the sixth floor at 12:35pm that day.

But presuming there was a two-person shooter/spotter team in that building, how did they get in and out at the proper time given that they also had to setup LHO as a patsy? Here are a few data points to start the discussion.

1. The shooters couldn't know the motorcade was running late at least until it left Love Field at 11:50am. So planning would have had them on the sixth floor closer to 12:25pm for the planned approach of the motorcade.

2. Charles Givens testimony stated it was "about a quarter till 12" when he and the other workers left the sixth floor and passed LHO, who was standing at the gate of the fifth floor. And that Givens stated he got to the first floor at "I would say it was about 5 minutes to 12". We'll assume some slippage for memory and possible lack or clocks or watches.

3. Bonnie Ray Williams testified that he "ate lunch on the sixth floor from around noon until 12:15, perhaps even until 12:20, AND THAT HE SAW NO ONE ELSE ON THE FLOOR."

4. I've read no evidence that anyone inside of the TSBD reported any unknown people inside of the building before the shooting. And none afterwards until the police and media started searching the building.

5. All of the conjecture about how LHO was to assemble the rifle and create the sniper's nest in time also applies to a shooter team that does not involve LHO.

I'm sure I am missing many other data points, but these are key to me.

Questions:

1. How did the shooters get in? Where and at what time? Did they need to hide until the proper time? Or could they literally walk in and out without being stopped?

2. How did the shooters get out? What time? Was there a clear path for them to escape before the first police officer entered and confronted LHO 75-90 seconds after the last shot was fired? Or were they forced to stay in the building

3. What if the workers decided to watch the motorcade from the sixth floor instead of the fifth? What if the motorcade was on time?

4. Did LHO know enough about the plot that they would have used him to help with setup or run interference?

Seems like a pretty tight schedule considering they could have been confronted by multiple workers before, during or after the shooting. Since the GK team seemed to use the "hide in plain sight" approach, perhaps the TSBD team was posing as building workers?

Thoughts?

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The timeline of what happened in the TSBD has been analyzed to death. But most of the onus has been put on whether LHO was (or could have been) on the sixth floor when Kennedy was shot. I accept the fact that it was highly unlikely he was on the sixth floor at 12:35pm that day.

But presuming there was a two-person shooter/spotter team in that building, how did they get in and out at the proper time given that they also had to setup LHO as a patsy? Here are a few data points to start the discussion.

1. The shooters couldn't know the motorcade was running late at least until it left Love Field at 11:50am. So planning would have had them on the sixth floor closer to 12:25pm for the planned approach of the motorcade.

2. Charles Givens testimony stated it was "about a quarter till 12" when he and the other workers left the sixth floor and passed LHO, who was standing at the gate of the fifth floor. And that Givens stated he got to the first floor at "I would say it was about 5 minutes to 12". We'll assume some slippage for memory and possible lack or clocks or watches.

3. Bonnie Ray Williams testified that he "ate lunch on the sixth floor from around noon until 12:15, perhaps even until 12:20, AND THAT HE SAW NO ONE ELSE ON THE FLOOR."

4. I've read no evidence that anyone inside of the TSBD reported any unknown people inside of the building before the shooting. And none afterwards until the police and media started searching the building.

5. All of the conjecture about how LHO was to assemble the rifle and create the sniper's nest in time also applies to a shooter team that does not involve LHO.

I'm sure I am missing many other data points, but these are key to me.

Questions:

1. How did the shooters get in? Where and at what time? Did they need to hide until the proper time? Or could they literally walk in and out without being stopped?

2. How did the shooters get out? What time? Was there a clear path for them to escape before the first police officer entered and confronted LHO 75-90 seconds after the last shot was fired? Or were they forced to stay in the building

3. What if the workers decided to watch the motorcade from the sixth floor instead of the fifth? What if the motorcade was on time?

4. Did LHO know enough about the plot that they would have used him to help with setup or run interference?

Seems like a pretty tight schedule considering they could have been confronted by multiple workers before, during or after the shooting. Since the GK team seemed to use the "hide in plain sight" approach, perhaps the TSBD team was posing as building workers?

Thoughts?

Chris,

it took me a long time to understand that you have to throw EVERYTHING out - even the data you consider a "given" and start entirely from scratch.

Some examples...

David Josephs came upon an invitation to the luncheon which led to the following timeline:

Guests to arrive at noon

JFK speech 12:15

Lunch served 12:30.

The INITIAL time the motorcade was due to go through DP was 12:10. The delay in leaving Love Field put it back to 12:25 and a further delay along the route put it back another 5 minutes.

One of the workers (I'd have to go and check which) told the HSCA investigator that interviewed him, that anyone could wander in and out of the building at any time without being challenged. In any case, Danny Arce reported that an elderly gentleman entered the building to use the bathroom. Evidently, no one but Arce noticed him - and Arce apparently did only because the man asked for directions.

Williams first day statement mentioned nothing about going to the 6th floor for lunch. He said he went straight to the 5th with Jarman.

Givens gave a different account every time he opened his mouth.

Dougherty or anyone in management could have let someone in early (Dougherty arrived well before anyone else) with that person (or persons) hiding on the 7th floor.

Baker's first day statement said he ran into someone on the 3rd or 4th floor. No mention of doorways or lunchrooms - and no positive ID it was Oswald despite Oswald sitting right there in the same room as he gave his statement. In fact, his description did not match Oswald - but did match that of the man seen on the 6th floor by multiple witnesses.

Back to the motorcade timeline for a minute... interestingly, the woman involved in the infamous call which originated in the Oxnard area, stated at first that JFK would be killed at 12:10 - right on the original schedule. Very shortly after that time came and went, she amended it to 12:30 -- which leads me to conclude she was in radio contact with plotters in Dallas who were giving her frequent updates.

Edited by Greg Parker

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Greg Parker said, " ... it took me a long time to understand that you have to throw EVERYTHING out - even the data you consider a "given" and start entirely from scratch."

Some good advice.

I think it is a mistake to presume that 3 shots or any shots were actually fired from the "Sniper's Nest", or even from the 6th floor.

There was certainly an effort made to give that impression: the arrangement of the boxes; the empty shells on the floor; a rifle stashed between boxes on the same floor. At the very least, we know there was an accomplice in the building.

The testimony of the two primary witnesses who claimed to actually see the shooter in action was questionable. Euins originally said the shooter was black. Brennan could not pick Oswald out in a Police lineup.

Several witnesses saw men with firearms in the TSBD. Not all of them placed these men definitively on the 6th floor.

The bullet trajectories that hit JFK and JBC in the back could both easily have come from the Daltex building.

In a well-planned shoot, an obvious decoy could have been used in the TSBD to draw attention away from other shooting locations.

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I think it is a mistake to presume that 3 shots or any shots were actually fired from the "Sniper's Nest", or even from the 6th floor

That's bonkers, Richard.

At least three people seen the shots being fired, Howard Brennan, Amos Euins, and Bob Jackson.

Three men on the floor below heard the shells hitting the floor above, and one of them had dust/debris land on his head.

Not at all.

Jackson saw a rifle barrel protrude thru the window, That is not the same as seeing the shooter as the shots are fired. That's why I said "…two primary witnesses who claimed to actually see the shooter in action".

Interestingly, Norman says the 1st shot occurs when the limo turns onto Elm St. The WC has the first shot well after the turn.

And Norman has the first shot hitting JFK.

Norman Also said he looked up out the window after the first shot and saw nothing. Why is this important? The timing of the firing sequence and the contradiction of Howard Brennan. Brennan testified that the barrel of the rifle was protruding out the window. (as did Jackson).

The WC has all the shots happening in under 6-8 seconds or less, according to the majority of witnesses who were asked that question. Not too practical for the assassin to stick the rifle out the window, shoot, pull the rifle back from its firing position, wait for Norman to look up, see nothing, and then set the rifle back, realign and fire again at his target that is continuously moving away.

Several researchers have pointed out that the 3 black men on the 5th floor were especially susceptible to intimidation from the Dallas Police force in1963 (Rep. Ford's questioning of Jarman anyone?). Dallas was extreme right-wing . Many of the DPD were KKK members. JFK made the statement about entering "Nut Country" heading into Texas. The Civil Rights movement was causing considerable tension in the South.

We have to consider the possibility that these men were coached before the WC and rehearsed to give the "correct" answers (as also appears to be a strong possibility with Brennan and Euins).

As far as Bonnie Ray Williams (another one of the men you refer to on the 5th floor below the "Snipers Nest"), here is an excerpt from his WC testimony:

WC testimony(Vol. III - Page 179)

Mr.Mccloy.

How many shots did you hear fired?

Mr.Williams.

I heard three shots. But at first I told the FBI I only heard two--they took me down- -because I was excited, and I couldn't remember too well. But later on, as everything began to die down, I got my memory even a little better than on the 22nd, I remembered three shots, because there was a pause between thefirst two shots. There was two real quick. There was three shots.

Mr. Ball.

Did you hear anything upstairs at all?

Mr. Williams.

No,sir; I didn't hear anything.

(The Bold face is by me.)

So Williams changes his testimony from 2 shots (what he originally told the FBI) to 3 in his later WC testimony.

He also didn't hear anything upstairs.

Excerpt from Jarman WC testimony:

Mr. JARMAN -After the motorcade turned, going west on Elm, then there was a loud shot, or backfire, as I thought it was then--I thought it was a backfire.

Mr. BALL - Youthought it was what?

Mr. JARMAN - Abackfire or an officer giving a salute to the President. And then at that timeI didn't, you know, think too much about it. And then the second shot was fired, and that is when the people started falling on the ground and themotorcade car jumped forward, and then the third shot was fired right behind the second one.

Mr. BALL - Wereyou still on your knees looking up?

Mr. JARMAN -Well, after the third shot was fired, I think I got up and I run over to Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams, and told them, I said, I told them that it wasn't a backfire or anything, that somebody was shooting at the President.

Mr. BALL - And then did they say anything?

Mr. JARMAN -Hank said, Harold Norman, rather, said that he thought the shots had came fromabove us, and I noticed that Bonnie Ray had a few debris in his head. It wassort of white stuff, or something, and I told him not to brush it out, but hedid anyway.

Mr. BALL - He had some white what, like plaster?

Mr. JARMAN -Like some come off a brick or plaster or something.

Mr. BALL - Did Norman say anything else that you remember?

Mr. JARMAN - Hesaid that he was sure that the shot came from inside the building because hehad been used to guns and all that, and he said it didn't sound like it was toofar off anyway. And so we ran down to the west side of the building.

Mr. BALL - Did Norman say anything about hearing cartridges or ejection or anything like that,do you remember?

Mr. JARMAN -That was after we got down to the west side of the building.

Mr. JARMAN - Hesaid it was something sounded like cartridges hitting the floor, and he couldhear the action of the rifle, I mean the bolt, as it were pulled back, orsomething like that.

Mr. BALL - Had you heard anything like that?

Mr. JARMAN - No,sir; I hadn't

Mr. BALL - Had you heard any person running upstairs?

Mr. JARMAN -No, sir.

Mr. BALL - Orany steps upstairs?

Mr. JARMAN -No, sir.

Mr. BALL - Anynoise at all up there?

Mr. JARMAN - None.

Representative FORD - Where did you think the sound of the first shot came from? Do you have a distinct impression of that?

Mr. JARMAN -Well, it sounded, I thought at first it had came from below. That is what I thought.

Representative FORD - As you looked out the window and you were looking at the President's car.

Mr. JARMAN -Yes, sir.

Representative FORD - Did you have a distinct impression as to whether the sound came from your left or from your right?

Mr. JARMAN -I am sure it came from the left.

RepresentativeFORD - But your first reaction, that is was from below.

Mr. JARMAN - Yes,sir.

Representative FORD - When the second shot came, do you have any different recollection?

Mr. JARMAN -Well, they all sounded just about the same.

RepresentativeFORD - You distinctly recall three shots?

So Jarman hears nothing above him and places the sound of the first shot as coming from belowand to the left. That sounds like the Daltex building.

Two of the three men in the 5th floor windows told the WC that they heard nothing above them.

Think about it: One man claims to hear not only the shots, but also the bolt action of the rifle and the empty shells hitting the floor.

The other two men next to him heard nothing on the floor above.

Going through the combined testimony of these 5 men (Euins, Brennan, Norman, Williams,Jarman), they contradict each other on key elements, and at least 4 of them changed their testimony by the time they got to the WC. Not a confidence-inspiring group performance.

The original thrust of my post was that we should not accept without question the assumption that there was actually a shooter or shooting team on the 6th floor. While I do not rule out the possibility of a shot or shots being fired from that location (or other floors in the TSBD), the actual evidence that would support that contention is far from conclusive, and in some respects, rather contrived.

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if it had been so simple as men on the fifth floor heard the shots go off above them, and heard the shell casings hit the floor, they then would have had one of two reactions, peek in the stairwell(s) to see who was coming down, or be too afraid to peak in the stairwell(s). i never saw the followup question, what did you do then after you knew the killer was above you.

brennan's testimony to me seems like somebody is trying to be seen. a shooter on the sixth floor would be sweating how is he going to get down either stairway or elevator after shooting from an open window. he would not be lingering in the window.

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if it had been so simple as men on the fifth floor heard the shots go off above them, and heard the shell casings hit the floor, they then would have had one of two reactions, peek in the stairwell(s) to see who was coming down, or be too afraid to peak in the stairwell(s). i never saw the followup question, what did you do then after you knew the killer was above you.

brennan's testimony to me seems like somebody is trying to be seen. a shooter on the sixth floor would be sweating how is he going to get down either stairway or elevator after shooting from an open window. he would not be lingering in the window.

Terry, you are assuming, as the Warren Commission did, that the assassin would have been hell bent on getting out of their fast, when in fact, whoever the Sixth Floor Sniper was, he was there early - as he was seen walking around the Sixth Floor with the rifle next to a man in a brown sports coat, hat and glasses as much as fifteen minutes before the murder, and someone was seen in the Sixth floor sniper's window five minutes after the last shot was fired, so whoever he was he was pretty lax about leaving. This makes me believe that, like the Patsy, he worked there, or was a cop and was waiting for the search to begin and would join in on that.

We know that the secretaries from the fourth floor came down the stairs a few minutes after the last shot and didn't see anybody come down the steps, Dougherty on the fifth floor didn't see anybody come down, and Baker and Shelly didn't pass anybody either - and nor did Shelly see Oswald ahead of Baker - which he should have, which makes me conclude nobody came down those steps - right away, other than the man in the brown sports coat.

He must have had an excuse to be there too, so he is not an unheard of personality, but had some affiliation with the TSBD, or DPD.

The idea that the Sixth Floor Sniper immediately became a suspect and fugitive is a false premise, and he has still yet to be identified.

BK

JFKcountercoup

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Where the heck did you get this?

he was there early - as he was seen walking around the Sixth Floor with the rifle next to a man in a brown sports coat, hat and glasses as much as fifteen minutes before the murder

DEALEY PLAZA CONSPIRACY WITNESS

Staff Report of the Select Committee onAssassinations

U.S. House of Representatives

Ninety-fifth Congress Second Session

March 1979

http://mcadams.posc....12/hscawtns.htm

I. Presence of two men in the upperfloor windows of the Texas School Book Depository .. 3

Arnold Louis Rowland testified before the Warren Commission that he and his wife standing near the corner of Houston and Main Streets at the time of the motorcade.(20) Rowland said that at about 12:15 p.m. he looked up at the Texas Book Depository and saw a man in a sixth floor window in the west corner of the building holding a rifle.(21) The man was standing back from the window.(22) Rowland described the rifle as a "fairly high-powered rifle" with scope.(23) He thought it might have been a .30 size six rifle.(24) Rowland said he noted also that two windows were open where he saw the man standing.(25) According to Rowland, the man was holding the rifle in a "port arms" military position, with the barrel at a 45 degree angle downward across his body.(26)

1. Rowland described the man as being "tall and slender in build in proportion with his width."(27) He also said the man could have weighed 140 to 150 pounds.(28) He appeared to be light-complexioned with dark hair, possibly "light Latin" or Caucasian, and his hair was closely cut.(29) Rowland said the man was wearing a very light-colored shirt with an open collar and a T-shirt beneath, and he had on either dark slacks or jeans.(30) The manappeared to be in his thirties.(31) Rowland said that he mentioned to his wife that he had seen a man in the window, but the man was gone when they looked back.(32) Rowland estimated the man was standing 3 to 5 feet back from the window.(33)

2. Rowland testified also that before he saw the man with the rifle, he saw another man in another window of the sixth floor.(34) He said that window was in the east corner of the building, "the one that they said the shots were fired from."(35) Rowland said he believed it was a "colored" man and that the man was "hanging" out the window.(36) Rowland said that at that time he noticed there were several people hanging out of windows; it wasthen that he looked again and saw the man with the rifle in the westernwindow.(37) He said he saw both men at about 12:15 p.m.(38)

3. Rowland described the man in the window of the southeast corner of the sixth floor asan "elderly Negro," but could give no further details on the man's appearance.(39) Rowland said the Negro man in the window remained there until the motorcade reached the corner of Main and Ervay Streets at about 12;30 p.m.(40) Rowland said he last saw him about 5 minutes before the motorcade had reachedthe corner of Main and Ervay, the man was gone.(41)

4. In an FBI interview on November 22, 1963, Rowland repeated that as he stood onHouston Street at the west entrance of the sheriff's office at approximately12:15 or 12:20 p.m., he saw a man standing in the window of the second floorfrom the top";(42) there was no further information in that report aboutthe location of that window. The man was standing 10 or 15 feet back from thewindow and was holding a rifle which appeared to have a scope.(43) The FBIreport described the man's position as "parade rest."(44) Accordingto that report, Rowland described the man as a white male of slender build withdark hair.(45) He was wearing a light-colored shirt which was open at theneck.(46)

5. Rowland told the FBI that he heard the first shot about 15 minutes after he had seenthe man with the rifle at the window. He said he did not look at the window again after the shots began.

6. In anFBI interview on November 23, 1963, Rowland was quoted as saying that thewindow in which he saw the man with the rifle was in the southwest corner ofthe sixth floor, which is nearest the overpass on Elm Street.(47) That reportcontains the description of the man as wearing a light-colored shirt and therifle as being a .306 with a telescopic sight.(48) Rowland said he was notclose enough to identify the man and could not say if it was Lee HarveyOswald.(49)

7. Rowlandalso gave a sworn statement to FBI agents on November 24, 1963. In thatstatement, Rowland again recounted that he saw a man with a rifle at about12:15 p.m. on November 22, 1963.(50) He described the location as the area ofthe two rectangular windows "at the extreme west end of the Texas SchoolBook Depository on the next to the top floor. * * *"(51) He said againthat the man was standing 10 to 15 feet back from the window.(52) Thedescription he have at this time was consistent with his earlier reports:Slender in proportion to his height, wearing a white or light-colored shirt,which was either collarless or open at the neck.(53) The man had dark hair.(54)Rowland also described the rifle as having a scope and said that the man washolding it in a "port arms" position.(55) He also said again that hewould not be able to identify the person because of the distance.(56)

8. Thereis no mention in any of the FBI reports that Rowland said he also saw anotherman in a window on the eastern corner of the building. Nevertheless, in hisWarren Commission testimony, Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig stated that soon afterthe assassination of the afternoon of November 22, 1963, Rowland gave him a description of twomen in sixth floor windows of the depository before the assassination.

9. Creigtestified that after the shots, he began talking to witnesses in the area ofthe depository.(57) This is Craig's description of his conversation withRowland:

I talked to a young couple and the boy said he saw two men onthe-uh-sixth floor of the Book Depository Building over there; one of them had a rifle withthe telescopic sight on it-but he thought they were Secret Service agents onguard and didn't report it. This was about-uh-oh, he said, 15 minutes beforethe motorcade ever arrived.(58)

Craig said he remembered the boy's name to be Arnold Rowland.(59)He said the conversation with Rowland took place about 10 minutes after theshots were fired at the motorcade.(60) Rowland told him that the man with therifle was located on the west end of the depository in the second window fromthe corner.(61) Rowland also told him that the two men were "walking backand forth" on the sixth floor.(62) Rowland related that when he lookedback a few minutes later, only the man with the rifle remained.(63) He washolding it at his side and looking out the window in a southerly direction.(64)Craig said Rowland's wife said she had not seen the men.(65) Craig also saidthat at the time he talked to Rowland, there had not yet been a report that theshots had come from the depository.(66) In fact, Craig testified that he had afirst assisted officers searching in the area of the railroad tracks before hereturned to the area of the depository building to talk to witnesses.(67)

10.Rowlandalso gave a report to the sheriff's department on November 22, 1963. According to that report, Rowland saidthat at about 12:15 p.m. he was a man with a rifle in a window on the secondfloor from the top of the depository.(68) The man was about 15 feet back fromthe window and was holding the rifle as high powered because it had a scope onit.(70) He described the man as white, wearing a light-colored shirt which wasopen at the neck; he said the man appeared to be of slender build with darkhair.(71) There is no mention in that report that Rowland described a second manon the sixth floor before the shots.

The Man in the Dark Sports Coat by William Weston

http://www.manuscrip...PQ/sports~1.htm

12:28 A man in a tan sportcoat is seen by Carron the seventh floor of the TSBD.

12:29 A man in a brown suit coat is seen byWalther on the fifth floor of the TSBD, standing next to a gunman.

Edited by William Kelly

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I am unable to source this information. IIRC, Gerry Hemming mentioned in a thread or in Noel Twyman's book, that the "team" had a key to the TSBD and entered around 300 am and stayed on the 7th floor. After the assassination, they repelled down the elevator shaft via ropes and escaped through the rear entrance. This would make some sense as to the elevator being inoperable for a while.

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I've always found all this interesting but have no firm opinions on anything. I not though that the service elevator running next to the front staircase interesting for a number of reasons (plus various other exit points seldom mentioned)

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[...] I not though that the service elevator running next to the front staircase interesting for a number of reasons (plus various other exit points seldom mentioned)

John,

Huh?

--Tommy :huh:

Edited by Thomas Graves

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What?

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[...]

One of the workers (I'd have to go and check which) told the HSCA investigator that interviewed him, that anyone could wander in and out of the building at any time without being challenged. In any case, Danny Arce reported that an elderly gentleman entered the building to use the bathroom. Evidently, no one but Arce noticed him - and Arce apparently did only because the man asked for directions.

[...]

I've always been very suspicious of this old guy. Here in San Diego we have a bankrobber still on the loose known as the "Geezer Bandit". He looks old and frail in all the bank videos, but sprinted like an Olympic champion across a bank parking lot after a dye pack exploded on him after his most recent robbery. :lol: The police now think he's a young man wearing a special mask that makes him look old. Also, I keep thinking back to that great film, The Day of the Jackal...

--Tommy

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Greg Parker said, " ... it took me a long time to understand that you have to throw EVERYTHING out - even the data you consider a "given" and start entirely from scratch."

Some good advice.

I think it is a mistake to presume that 3 shots or any shots were actually fired from the "Sniper's Nest", or even from the 6th floor.

There was certainly an effort made to give that impression: the arrangement of the boxes; the empty shells on the floor; a rifle stashed between boxes on the same floor. At the very least, we know there was an accomplice in the building.

The testimony of the two primary witnesses who claimed to actually see the shooter in action was questionable. Euins originally said the shooter was black. Brennan could not pick Oswald out in a Police lineup.

Several witnesses saw men with firearms in the TSBD. Not all of them placed these men definitively on the 6th floor.

The bullet trajectories that hit JFK and JBC in the back could both easily have come from the Daltex building.

In a well-planned shoot, an obvious decoy could have been used in the TSBD to draw attention away from other shooting locations.

Richard,

Let's not forget the Harper Fragment. It traces back, through JFK's position at Z-313, to a window on the far west end of the TSBD. I believe some witnesses reported seen a man with a rifle in this window a short time before the assassination. And isn't there a man's face in that window in a Powell or Dillard photo taken right after the hit?

--Tommy :)

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I believe some witnesses reported seen a man with a rifle in this window a short time before the assassination. And isn't there a man's face in that window in a Powell or Dillard photo taken right after the hit?

--Tommy :)

Duncan,

Thanks for posting this video.

L. Fletcher Prouty in The Guns of Dallas says that Thomas C. Dillard was riding in the number 3 camera car and took this photo only three seconds after the fatal head shot.

--Tommy :)

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Greg Parker said, " ... it took me a long time to understand that you have to throw EVERYTHING out - even the data you consider a "given" and start entirely from scratch."

Some good advice.

I think it is a mistake to presume that 3 shots or any shots were actually fired from the "Sniper's Nest", or even from the 6th floor.

There was certainly an effort made to give that impression: the arrangement of the boxes; the empty shells on the floor; a rifle stashed between boxes on the same floor. At the very least, we know there was an accomplice in the building.

The testimony of the two primary witnesses who claimed to actually see the shooter in action was questionable. Euins originally said the shooter was black. Brennan could not pick Oswald out in a Police lineup.

Several witnesses saw men with firearms in the TSBD. Not all of them placed these men definitively on the 6th floor.

The bullet trajectories that hit JFK and JBC in the back could both easily have come from the Daltex building.

In a well-planned shoot, an obvious decoy could have been used in the TSBD to draw attention away from other shooting locations.

Richard,

Let's not forget the Harper Fragment. It traces back, through JFK's position at Z-313, to a window on the far west end of the TSBD. I believe some witnesses reported seen a man with a rifle in this window a short time before the assassination. And isn't there a man's face in that window in a Powell or Dillard photo taken right after the hit?

--Tommy :)

Agree Tommy. Harper's Fragment and Dillard photo are two pieces of physical evidence that would support the possibility of a shot from the West End of the TSBD. JBC's wounds could also be a result of shot(s) from the same vicinity.

One other thing, something that ties into a recent, and very contentious thread in this forum ... consider the possibility that a shooter was firing from a Western-facing window in the TSBD:

This would offer a much more concealed location, not visible to the majority of the crowd in Dealey Plaza, which was concentrated primarily near Houston Street and the intersection of Houston and Elm. The main drawback for a shooter in this western location would be the inability to see the target until the Limo was actually in the Kill Zone. One possible solution would be an accomplice on the street that could signal the shooter when the Limo was just about to enter the Kill Zone. You know, Somebody who could give a hand signal, or open an umbrella and pump it in the air, or something similar.

I am sure you have seen other TUM discussions, where the argument has been made that TUM was unnecessary because of a spotter next to the shooter.

From a triangulation standpoint, The TSBD is a natural location for one of the shooters. I am just very suspicious of the confusing testimony surrounding the "sniper's lair" in the East 6th floor location.

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