How did the shooters get in and out of the TSBD?

[Chris Bennett]

That's a good point, Richard. I had never thought of the "sniper's nest" as a red herring before.

[Thomas Graves]

That's a good point, Richard. I had never thought of the "sniper's nest" as a red herring before.

I'm thinking that the guy (LHO-look-alike Tan Jacket Man?) Amos Euins and Howard Brennan saw with a rifle in "Oswald's" sniper's lair was firing blanks to bring attention to that window and thereby better implicate Oswald with all of the "evidence" that would be found there. The real shooter, in this scenario, was at the east window and was, possibly, Jack Dougherty...

Just a thought,

--Tommy

Edited January 2, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Here's a far-out theory to think about.

Suspend your disbelief for just a moment, and see what this makes you think. Let's just suppose that Tom Purvis is right, and there were three shots fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD...and all three shot hit JFK. Let's just suppose that the third shot was NOT a "snap-shot" fired from the southEAST window, but was fired by a SECOND assassin from the southWEST corner of the 6th floor of the TSBD. Let's suppose this third shot did what Purvis claims it did, and entered JFK's downturned head near the collar, exited his head near the rear top center, and then proceeded to cause Connally's wounds as Purvis suggests the bullet did. This would eliminate the need for a bullet from the southEAST corner of the TSBD to have made a left turn upon entering JFK's body, as it would have already been traveling in a right-to-left direction within the space of the limo...something impossible to accomplish from the southEAST corner window, until the limo started into the right-hand turn to enter the triple overpass.

Now, provided you've suspended your disbelief this far and are still following me...suppose this second assassin was using a SECOND 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, with ammunition from the same WCC batch as the assassin in the southEAST window.

Spectrographic analysis would show the bullets to be virtually identical, since the rifles were, for the sake of this scenario, the same make and caliber. And since none of the folks who claimed to see an assassin on the 6th floor ever claimed to see TWO assassins, police were naturally only looking for ONE rifle...which they claim they found. How did the assassins get the second rifle out of the TSBD? does it matter? After all, once the cops found ONE rifle, they STOPPED LOOKING for another. [The second Carcano might have been "hidden" along with Oswald's jacket and clipboard, which only turned up WEEKS after the initial investigation, for all I know.]

BUT...look at the mess this scenario would've made for the Warren Commission! Since they had to fit the assassination explanation to the lone-nut script they were given, the HAD to make the third shot go away...even though the SS, LIFE Magazine, and even the FBI had it surveyed into their original plats. The third shot HAD to "disappear," because the angle of entry into JFK and then into Connally would've OBVIOUSLY had to have come from the southWEST window, which would have PROVEN there was a second assassin. The WC also, having made the ACTUAL third shot by the second assassin go away, then had to construct a "shot-that-missed" scenario AND the asinine "single-bullet theory" to "explain" the wounds in JFK and Connally.

Of course, as Jim DiEugenio and others have pointed out, the Post Office and the FBI could NOT produce evidence that Oswald was the man who picked up the Carcano shipped from Klein's. Add to that the fact that A. Hidell ordered the 36" rifle, but a 40" rifle was recovered from the TSBD...perhaps a 40" rifle was ordered AFTER April '63, when the Klein's ads changed. Perhaps THAT'S where the 40" rifle came from, a later SECOND order from Klein's...and perhaps the earlier Hidell order was actually shipped with the 36" rifle that was actually ordered. Now, I'm not sure what it would mean where YOU come from, but two rifles and two assassins spell C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y where I come from...and that's something that the WC wanted to avoid dealing with at ALL costs.

So instead, they came up with a fake scenario, avoided investigating certain areas, and mad what few facts they actually had twist and bend to ALMOST fit the lone-nut story they were told to peddle...and then initially locked away the evidence for 75 years, lest anyone discover what they were actually up to.

NOW...what evidence do I have to back up this far-out theory? Not much, beyond the information already contained in the WC report and in the TRUE surveys completed by Robert West [not the cardboard copy of a tracing the WC used]. The missing evidence is in the unasked questions, the uninvestigated leads, and the way the questions WERE asked of witnesses to lead them AROUND the truth, without actually TELLING the truth.

How did any second assassin get out of the TSBD? I don't know. How did they get a second Carcano out of the TSBD? I don't know; we're still debating how they got the FIRST Carcano INTO the TSBD. Perhaps the second assassin was an employee of the TSBD, and worked with the first assassin...whom I'm inclined to believe was NOT Oswald, either, based upon the lunchroom evidence. I think Givens, Dougherty, and others who were allegedly on the 5th floor knew the truth, but didn't tell it...either due guilt, complicity, or due to coercion/blackmail.

OK. My longshot theory would explain the actions of the WC perfectly, and would fall in line with what was shown on Mr. West's surveys as well. It would NOT answer all the questions it raises. It would not answer WHO the two assassins were. It would not answer the WHY of the assassination. But it would cover the mechanics of most of the mysteries that the WC Report raised, and it would eliminate any need for body snatching, wound alteration, and bullets making strange turns in midair. It would explain why the USPO and the FBI could [nearly] track ONE rifle...but might also explain why the rifle in custody wasn't the 36" rifle that A. Hidell ordered, and that Klein's SHOULD have shipped. It wouldn't explain whether the Carcano recovered was or was not the rifle that Oswald owned. It would leave a lot of the unanswered questions unanswered.

BUT...it would answer a LOT of questions, and would provide an explanation a lot more in line with what witnesses in Dealy Plaza claimed to have seen and heard than the WC report did. Not saying it DID happen that way; but an objective look would show that this scenario makes more sense than the WC fairy tale.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Mark Knight

[Thomas Graves]

Here's a far-out theory to think about.

Suspend your disbelief for just a moment, and see what this makes you think. Let's just suppose that Tom Purvis is right, and there were three shots fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD...and all three shot hit JFK. Let's just suppose that the third shot was NOT a "snap-shot" fired from the southEAST window, but was fired by a SECOND assassin from the southWEST corner of the 6th floor of the TSBD. Let's suppose this third shot did what Purvis claims it did, and entered JFK's downturned head near the collar, exited his head near the rear top center, and then proceeded to cause Connally's wounds as Purvis suggests the bullet did. This would eliminate the need for a bullet from the southEAST corner of the TSBD to have made a left turn upon entering JFK's body, as it would have already been traveling in a right-to-left direction within the space of the limo...something impossible to accomplish from the southEAST corner window, until the limo started into the right-hand turn to enter the triple overpass.

Now, provided you've suspended your disbelief this far and are still following me...suppose this second assassin was using a SECOND 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, with ammunition from the same WCC batch as the assassin in the southEAST window.

Spectrographic analysis would show the bullets to be virtually identical, since the rifles were, for the sake of this scenario, the same make and caliber. And since none of the folks who claimed to see an assassin on the 6th floor ever claimed to see TWO assassins, police were naturally only looking for ONE rifle...which they claim they found. How did the assassins get the second rifle out of the TSBD? does it matter? After all, once the cops found ONE rifle, they STOPPED LOOKING for another. [The second Carcano might have been "hidden" along with Oswald's jacket and clipboard, which only turned up WEEKS after the initial investigation, for all I know.]

BUT...look at the mess this scenario would've made for the Warren Commission! Since they had to fit the assassination explanation to the lone-nut script they were given, the HAD to make the third shot go away...even though the SS, LIFE Magazine, and even the FBI had it surveyed into their original plats. The third shot HAD to "disappear," because the angle of entry into JFK and then into Connally would've OBVIOUSLY had to have come from the southWEST window, which would have PROVEN there was a second assassin. The WC also, having made the ACTUAL third shot by the second assassin go away, then had to construct a "shot-that-missed" scenario AND the asinine "single-bullet theory" to "explain" the wounds in JFK and Connally.

Of course, as Jim DiEugenio and others have pointed out, the Post Office and the FBI could NOT produce evidence that Oswald was the man who picked up the Carcano shipped from Klein's. Add to that the fact that A. Hidell ordered the 36" rifle, but a 40" rifle was recovered from the TSBD...perhaps a 40" rifle was ordered AFTER April '63, when the Klein's ads changed. Perhaps THAT'S where the 40" rifle came from, a later SECOND order from Klein's...and perhaps the earlier Hidell order was actually shipped with the 36" rifle that was actually ordered. Now, I'm not sure what it would mean where YOU come from, but two rifles and two assassins spell C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y where I come from...and that's something that the WC wanted to avoid dealing with at ALL costs.

So instead, they came up with a fake scenario, avoided investigating certain areas, and mad what few facts they actually had twist and bend to ALMOST fit the lone-nut story they were told to peddle...and then initially locked away the evidence for 75 years, lest anyone discover what they were actually up to.

NOW...what evidence do I have to back up this far-out theory? Not much, beyond the information already contained in the WC report and in the TRUE surveys completed by Robert West [not the cardboard copy of a tracing the WC used]. The missing evidence is in the unasked questions, the uninvestigated leads, and the way the questions WERE asked of witnesses to lead them AROUND the truth, without actually TELLING the truth.

How did any second assassin get out of the TSBD? I don't know. How did they get a second Carcano out of the TSBD? I don't know; we're still debating how they got the FIRST Carcano INTO the TSBD. Perhaps the second assassin was an employee of the TSBD, and worked with the first assassin...whom I'm inclined to believe was NOT Oswald, either, based upon the lunchroom evidence. I think Givens, Dougherty, and others who were allegedly on the 5th floor knew the truth, but didn't tell it...either due guilt, complicity, or due to coercion/blackmail.

OK. My longshot theory would explain the actions of the WC perfectly, and would fall in line with what was shown on Mr. West's surveys as well. It would NOT answer all the questions it raises. It would not answer WHO the two assassins were. It would not answer the WHY of the assassination. But it would cover the mechanics of most of the mysteries that the WC Report raised, and it would eliminate any need for body snatching, wound alteration, and bullets making strange turns in midair. It would explain why the USPO and the FBI could [nearly] track ONE rifle...but might also explain why the rifle in custody wasn't the 36" rifle that A. Hidell ordered, and that Klein's SHOULD have shipped. It wouldn't explain whether the Carcano recovered was or was not the rifle that Oswald owned. It would leave a lot of the unanswered questions unanswered.

BUT...it would answer a LOT of questions, and would provide an explanation a lot more in line with what witnesses in Dealy Plaza claimed to have seen and heard than the WC report did. Not saying it DID happen that way; but an objective look would show that this scenario makes more sense than the WC fairy tale.

Mark,

Maybe you've already answered this question above, but I just woke up and don't feel like reading it again right now. (Probabaly because of your habit of putting so many word in uppercase for EMPHASIS). Good God, man, we're not idiots. We can actually read. Well, at least most of us.

The question: Why would the conspirators have both snipers firing from the same window? How would that have been to their advantage?

In your scenario, do you think the two snipers firing from "Oswald's lair" blew their perfect plan by firing the second and third shots so close together as to preclude those shots from having come from a lone assassin (Oswald)?

--Tommy

Edited January 3, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Tom, in the theory above, the first TWO shots would have been fired from the alleges "sniper's lair" in the southEAST corner of the TSBD...and the THIRD shot would have been from the southWEST corner of the TSBD.

So there would NOT have been two snipers firing from the same window...they would've been merely firing from opposite corners of the same floor of the same building, with the same make and caliber rifle. And without CORRECTLY tracing the paths of the bullets, since all 3 shots had come from the rear [a concept that many researchers are reluctant to consider], lazy investigators would them attempt to show that all of the shots from the rear came from the same location.

It's just that a bullet from the Dal-Tex Building, like one from the alleged "sniper's lair," would have been entering the limo on a left-to-right trajectory inside the limo, after the limo was on the straight section of Elm following the turn from Houston...whereas a sniper in the southWEST window of the TSBD could effectively pull off the right-to-left trajectory in the limo...which would make the LIFE, SS, and FBI surveys all correct about the location of the third shot, and Tom Purvis' theory about the wounds caused by the third shot would also be correct. And the FBI would also be correct in claiming that all of the bullets could be matched to the same batch of ammo, in the same caliber.

Remember, Tom...the biggest lies in the WC Report were not so much in the EVIDENCE, but were in the CONCLUSIONS that were drawn FROM the evidence. The theory I put forward would be more in line with the evidence that the WC had before it than their own. And it wouldn't preclude the use of other shooters; it would just mean that other shooters may have missed, or in the case of a Dal-Tex shooter, may have accounted for the injury to Teague. The theory I have offered doesn't answer ALL the questions; in some respects, it raises a few more than it answers. BUT it better conforms to the WC's actual evidence than their own theory did.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Mark Knight

[Thomas Graves]

Tom, in the theory above, the first TWO shots would have been fired from the alleges "sniper's lair" in the southEAST corner of the TSBD...and the THIRD shot would have been from the southWEST corner of the TSBD.

So there would NOT have been two snipers firing from the same window...they would've been merely firing from opposite corners of the same floor of the same building, with the same make and caliber rifle. And without CORRECTLY tracing the paths of the bullets, since all 3 shots had come from the rear [a concept that many researchers are reluctant to consider], lazy investigators would then attempt to show that all of the shots from the rear came from the same location.

It's just that a bullet from the Dal-Tex Building, like one from the alleged "sniper's lair," would have been entering the limo on a left-to-right trajectory inside the limo, after the limo was on the straight section of Elm following the turn from Houston...whereas a sniper in the southWEST window of the TSBD could effectively pull off the right-to-left trajectory in the limo...which would make the LIFE, SS, and FBI surveys all correct about the location of the third shot, and Tom Purvis' theory about the wounds caused by the third shot would also be correct. And the FBI would also be correct in claiming that all of the bullets could be matched to the same batch of ammo, in the same caliber.

[...]

Mark,

I finally "got" it. Interesting theory.

Thanks,

--Tommy

[David Josephs]

To the point of the thread... they simply walked in and walked out... hiding in plain sight....

I think Baker sees one of these men as does Sawyer... and that Sawyer is involved in some shady stuff here

Baker encountered one of these men:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

and Sawyer, another... This - TO ME - is one of the more strange responses and LACK of follow up... and the constant reference, without prodding to the FIFTH floor

Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?

Mr. SAWYER. Then I went on down to the Texas Book Depository.

Mr. BELIN. Where did you park your car?

Mr. SAWYER. In front of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. BELIN. In front of the main entrance there?

Mr. SAWYER. In front of the main entrance.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?

Mr. SAWYER. Immediately went into---well, talked to some of the officers around there who told me the story that they had thought some shots had come from one of the floors in the building, and I think the fifth floor was mentioned, but nobody seemed to know who the shots were directed at or what had actually happened, except there had been a shooting there at the time the President's motorcade had gone by.

And I went with a couple of officers and a man who I believed worked in the building. The elevator was just to the right of the main entrance, and we went to the top floorDJ: the TOP FLOOR as we see later was the FOURTH FLOOR..., which was pointed out to me by this other man as being the floor that we were talking about. We had talked about the fifth floor. And we went back to the storage area and looked around and didn't see anything.

Mr. BELIN. Now you took an elevator up, is that correct?

Mr. SAWYER. That's right.

Mr. BELIN. The route that you took to the elevator, you went to the front door?

Mr. SAWYER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. SAWYER. We got into the elevator. We run into this man. DJ: and THAT's IT... no more about the man coming off the elevator from what may have been the 4th floor....

Mr. BELIN. Well, when you say you got into the elevator, where was the elevator as you walked in the front door?

Mr. SAWYER. It was to the right.

Mr. BELIN. To the right?

Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Was it a freight elevator or a passenger elevator?

Mr. SAWYER. The best of my recollection, it was a passenger elevator.

Mr. BELIN. Did you push for the top button in that elevator?

Mr. SAWYER. Well, I don't know who pushed it, but we went up to the top floor.

Mr. BELIN. You went up to the top floor that the elevator would go to?

Mr. SAWYER. That's right.

Mr. BELIN. You got off, and were there officers there?

Mr. SAWYER. There was one or two other officers with me. DJ: Always thought this was Haygood and Harkness...

Mr. BELIN. Now when you got off, you say you went into the back there into a warehouse area?

Mr. SAWYER. Storage area; what appeared to be a storage area.

Mr. BELIN. Did you go into any place other than a warehouse or storage area?

Mr. SAWYER. No.

Mr. BELIN. Was there anything other than a warehouse or storage area there?

Mr. SAWYER. Well, to one side I could see an office over there with people in it. Some women that apparently were office workers.

Mr. BELIN. Now Inspector, what did you do then?

Mr. SAWYER. Well, I didn't see anything that was out of the ordinary, so I immediately came back downstairs to check the security on the building.

Mr. BELIN. When you say check the security on the building, what do you mean by that?

Mr. SAWYER. Well, to be sure it was covered off properly, and then posted two men on the front entrance with instructions not to let anyone in or out.

Mr. BELIN. What about the rear entrance?

Mr. SAWYER. We'll, I also had the sergeant go around and check to be sure that all of those were covered, although he told me that they were already covered.

Mr. BELIN. When was the order given to cover the front entrance of the building?

Mr. SAWYER. Well, they had it covered when I got there. There were officers all around the front. The only thing I don't think had been done by the time I got there, was the instructions not to let anybody in or out.

Mr. BELIN. All right, now, did you give the instructions not to let anyone in or out?

Mr. SAWYER. I did.

Mr. BELIN. Did you give those instructions before or after you came down from the fourth floor or top floor?

Mr. SAWYER. After I got down.

Mr. BELIN. Would it be fair for me to assume then that you had not at least completely left your car by 12:34 p.m?

Mr. SAWYER. Correct.

Mr. BELIN. Then when you got to the Texas School Book Depository, well, you got out of the car and talked to some people or to some officers?

Mr. SAWYER. Officers.

Mr. BELIN. And then what did the officers tell you?

Mr. SAWYER. That their information was that the shots had come from the fifth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. BELIN. Did any officers give you any other information about the source of the shots other than the fact that it came from the Texas School Book Depository, at that particular time?

Mr. SAWYER. I can't say whether it was officers or who, but there was a reference also made to the overpass.

Mr. BELIN. All right, in any event--pardon me, do you have anything else to add? DJ: Could BELIN get away from the man, the elevator, the 5th floor and the overpass any more quickly... "IN ANY EVENT"??? yet Sawyer keep it up till Belin shuts him down

Mr. SAWYER. Also, there was a broadcast here in the transcript about the railroad yard.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. SAWYER. And this could be part of what I was thinking about, or what I had heard, was this broadcast on the radio about the railroad yard.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? You went inside the building, is that correct?

Mr. SAWYER. We immediately went inside the building. I took--I believe Sgt. Harkness may have gone with me. I am not positive of that.

Mr. BELIN. Was the elevator on the first floor when you got there, or did you have to wait for it to come down?

Mr. SAWYER. Best of my recollection, it was there.

Mr. BELIN. You got to the elevator, went up, looked around back there. How long did you spend up there at the top floor that the elevator took you to?

Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most. DJ: This is just STRANGE, no? Sawyer and 2 cops run up to the 4th floor FOR A MINUTE - see nothing and then he alone returns.... seems you'd have to walk UP past the 5th floor to get to the 6th.. wonder who moved a rifle from the 5th to 6th floors... ?

Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?

Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.

Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?

Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Baker encountered one of these men:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Nice post, David.

Maybe the man Officer Baker encountered on the third or forth floor was our infamous "Tan Jacket Man" and Truly covered for him by lying, "I know that man, he works here."

--Tommy

Edited January 3, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[David Josephs]

[...]

Baker encountered one of these men:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Nice post, David.

Maybe the man Officer Baker encountered on the third or forth floor was our infamous "Tan Jacket Man" and Truly covered for him by lying, "I know that man, he works here."

--Tommy

Thanks Tom...

Yet I'd really like to hear more about the member's thoughts (and your thoughts) on Sawyer...

Running up to the 4th floor "for a minute to look around" between 12:34 and 12:37 appears very strange and suspicious to me...

Sawyer like a few others, always seems to be in the right place at a good time....

Behind Baker and Truly... Sawyer and friends are the next DPD individuals above the 1st floor TSBD.... on the 4th, 5th and 6th floors, at the BACK DOOR.....

If anyone was to move or plant evidence, he and the two other officers are prime candidates

Cheers

DJ

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Baker encountered one of these men:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Nice post, David.

Maybe the man Officer Baker encountered on the third or forth floor was our infamous "Tan Jacket Man" and Truly covered for him by lying, "I know that man, he works here."

--Tommy

[...]

I'd really like to hear more about the member's thoughts (and your thoughts) on Sawyer...

Running up to the 4th floor "for a minute to look around" between 12:34 and 12:37 appears very strange and suspicious to me...

Sawyer like a few others, always seems to be in the right place at a good time....

Behind Baker and Truly... Sawyer and friends are the next DPD individuals above the 1st floor TSBD.... on the 4th, 5th and 6th floors, at the BACK DOOR.....

If anyone was to move or plant evidence, he and the two other officers are prime candidates

Cheers

DJ

Yes, David. Sawyer sounds pretty fishy to me, too.

--Tommy

Edited January 4, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[William Kelly]

[...]

Baker encountered one of these men:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Nice post, David.

Maybe the man Officer Baker encountered on the third or forth floor was our infamous "Tan Jacket Man" and Truly covered for him by lying, "I know that man, he works here."

--Tommy

[...]

I'd really like to hear more about the member's thoughts (and your thoughts) on Sawyer...

Running up to the 4th floor "for a minute to look around" between 12:34 and 12:37 appears very strange and suspicious to me...

Sawyer like a few others, always seems to be in the right place at a good time....

Behind Baker and Truly... Sawyer and friends are the next DPD individuals above the 1st floor TSBD.... on the 4th, 5th and 6th floors, at the BACK DOOR.....

If anyone was to move or plant evidence, he and the two other officers are prime candidates

Cheers

DJ

Yes, David. He Sawyer sounds pretty fishy to me, too.

--Tommy

Truly didn't have to lie about it, a lot of men in coats worked there - most on the second - fourth floors in offices leased to the various publishers. They didn't work for the TSBD like Oswald but they were contract partners - and shared office space. Just as Oswald the patsy worked there, I would venture that the Sixth Floor sniper also had a good excuse to be there.

Among the Sixth Floor Museum oral histories is one by a guy who drove a truck delivering and picking up books, and he used the second floor lunchroom and bathroom facilities and had full run of the place.

Because of that, the pool of suspects is limited, but not many people want to bother reviewing the backgrounds of those who worked there, or for the DPD.

BK

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Baker encountered one of these men:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Nice post, David.

Maybe the man Officer Baker encountered on the third or forth floor was our infamous "Tan Jacket Man" and Truly covered for him by lying, "I know that man, he works here."

--Tommy

[...]

I'd really like to hear more about the member's thoughts (and your thoughts) on Sawyer...

Running up to the 4th floor "for a minute to look around" between 12:34 and 12:37 appears very strange and suspicious to me...

Sawyer like a few others, always seems to be in the right place at a good time....

Behind Baker and Truly... Sawyer and friends are the next DPD individuals above the 1st floor TSBD.... on the 4th, 5th and 6th floors, at the BACK DOOR.....

If anyone was to move or plant evidence, he and the two other officers are prime candidates

Cheers

DJ

Yes, David. Sawyer sounds pretty fishy to me, too.

--Tommy

Truly didn't have to lie about it, a lot of men in coats worked there - most on the second - fourth floors in offices leased to the various publishers. They didn't work for the TSBD like Oswald but they were contract partners - and shared office space. Just as Oswald the patsy worked there, I would venture that the Sixth Floor sniper also had a good excuse to be there.

Among the Sixth Floor Museum oral histories is one by a guy who drove a truck delivering and picking up books, and he used the second floor lunchroom and bathroom facilities and had full run of the place.

Because of that, the pool of suspects is limited, but not many people want to bother reviewing the backgrounds of those who worked there, or for the DPD.

BK

Bill,

Thanks for pointing this out.

Do you think "Tan Jacket Man" (the guy "captured" twice in the Hughes film, first in the sniper's nest window and later in the parking lot) also worked in the building?

--Tommy

Edited January 4, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[David Josephs]

[...]

Baker encountered one of these men:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Nice post, David.

Maybe the man Officer Baker encountered on the third or forth floor was our infamous "Tan Jacket Man" and Truly covered for him by lying, "I know that man, he works here."

--Tommy

[...]

I'd really like to hear more about the member's thoughts (and your thoughts) on Sawyer...

Running up to the 4th floor "for a minute to look around" between 12:34 and 12:37 appears very strange and suspicious to me...

Sawyer like a few others, always seems to be in the right place at a good time....

Behind Baker and Truly... Sawyer and friends are the next DPD individuals above the 1st floor TSBD.... on the 4th, 5th and 6th floors, at the BACK DOOR.....

If anyone was to move or plant evidence, he and the two other officers are prime candidates

Cheers

DJ

Yes, David. He Sawyer sounds pretty fishy to me, too.

--Tommy

Truly didn't have to lie about it, a lot of men in coats worked there - most on the second - fourth floors in offices leased to the various publishers. They didn't work for the TSBD like Oswald but they were contract partners - and shared office space. Just as Oswald the patsy worked there, I would venture that the Sixth Floor sniper also had a good excuse to be there.

Among the Sixth Floor Museum oral histories is one by a guy who drove a truck delivering and picking up books, and he used the second floor lunchroom and bathroom facilities and had full run of the place.

Because of that, the pool of suspects is limited, but not many people want to bother reviewing the backgrounds of those who worked there, or for the DPD.

BK

Morning Bill...

The question remains though...

Why does Truly testimony corroborate Baker's TESTIMONY yet their tetstimony contradicts his affidavit...

How can Baker completely neglect to mention the door, the window, the vestibule... and yet be able to simple CHANGE the story in front of the WC...

With no questions or concerns...

And if the man on the stairs was not Oswald, and DID work there... who was it?

DJ

[Ian Kingsbury]

David.

Been asking that one for years David.If Truly is to be believed (twice) He Identified two strangers(to Baker)

Oswald in the lunchroom and a man in a Tan Jacket on the 3rd/4th floor. with "he works here"so we know that the tan jacket man was an employee well known to Truly .Baker does not mention Drawing his weapon on the tan man nor does Truly mention a weapon . Speculation:perhaps he recognised him before he turned back towards them and offered the information before Baker needed to ask!:I think this tan man would be in the list of employees .So when the "wheres Oswald?" shout came about Truly could have offered the information that he had seen him in the lunchroom earlier ,Or is this where he stepped away while the authorities spoke?.If Jack Dougherty said "something caught my eye when Oswald came in to work

that morning" We would be arguing that point I believed JD was used in other ways up on the 6th floor and that is why it is so difficult to find out any background on him .I find it hard to believe the early critics missed this one ,after all we found the name of the manhole cover FBI agent who did not want to be found .

How hard can it be? Said the discoverer of diamonds.

Ian

[David Josephs]

David.

Been asking that one for years David.If Truly is to be believed (twice) He Identified two strangers(to Baker)

Oswald in the lunchroom and a man in a Tan Jacket on the 3rd/4th floor. with "he works here"so we know that the tan jacket man was an employee well known to Truly .Baker does not mention Drawing his weapon on the tan man nor does Truly mention a weapon . Speculation:perhaps he recognised him before he turned back towards them and offered the information before Baker needed to ask!:I think this tan man would be in the list of employees .So when the "wheres Oswald?" shout came about Truly could have offered the information that he had seen him in the lunchroom earlier ,Or is this where he stepped away while the authorities spoke?.If Jack Dougherty said "something caught my eye when Oswald came in to work

that morning" We would be arguing that point I believed JD was used in other ways up on the 6th floor and that is why it is so difficult to find out any background on him .I find it hard to believe the early critics missed this one ,after all we found the name of the manhole cover FBI agent who did not want to be found .

How hard can it be? Said the discoverer of diamonds.

Ian

Jack D being used is no big stretch at all... yet keeping him quiet about it seems to me a tough sell.

I was under the impression that JD, on that day, looked ALOT like the man in the SW window per Rowland....

and I can't remember ever reading if they tested the 3 rifle rest boxes for nitrates... to prove the rifle was actually fired from that window... ?

Cheers

DJ