JFK's teen mistress addresses relationship

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Let's be honest, Michael Hogan, you have not read Mimi Alford's book "Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John Kennedy and its Aftermath." (Her book is 198 pages long and well written.) Yet you feel uninhibited in rejecting it.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

The fact is, not one member of this forum knows whether or not Alford's account of her relationship with John Kennedy is entirely true. I don't know. It's impossible to know.

I do know that skepticism is both healthy and warranted, and I cast my lot in this topic with Jim DiEugenio, Larry Hancock, Don Jeffries, Dawn Meredith, Robert Charles-Dunne, and Greg Burnham. I've read

their posts for years and they've earned their insightful reputations here for good reasons. That's no slight of the other members I mentioned at the outset of this post. I respect their input on this thread, as well.

What I do reject are your unprovable claims and your apparent lack of critical thinking when it comes to certain topics.

Michael, I have a very simple question for you. Have you read Mimi Alford's book "Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John Kennedy and its Aftermath."

I have read the whole thing. Have you read it?

[Michael Hogan]

Let's be honest, Michael Hogan, you have not read Mimi Alford's book "Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John Kennedy and its Aftermath." (Her book is 198 pages long and well written.) Yet you feel uninhibited in rejecting it.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

The fact is, not one member of this forum knows whether or not Alford's account of her relationship with John Kennedy is entirely true. I don't know. It's impossible to know.

I do know that skepticism is both healthy and warranted, and I cast my lot in this topic with Jim DiEugenio, Larry Hancock, Don Jeffries, Dawn Meredith, Robert Charles-Dunne, and Greg Burnham. I've read

their posts for years and they've earned their insightful reputations here for good reasons. That's no slight of the other members I mentioned at the outset of this post. I respect their input on this thread, as well.

What I do reject are your unprovable claims and your apparent lack of critical thinking when it comes to certain topics.

Michael, I have a very simple question for you. Have you read Mimi Alford's book "Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John Kennedy and its Aftermath."

I have read the whole thing. Have you read it?

I see you have been forced to retract your pernicious and false claim: "Legally speaking, John Kennedy raped Mimi Alford." That brief statement says a lot about your motives, agenda and methods.

Your apology carries no weight or importance with me. Furthermore, the age of consent is not the only issue with your claim. Even if Mimi Alford was fifteen when she worked at the White House,

your accusation of legal rape is abhorrent without corroborative evidence to back it up. Mimi Alford's book is not that.

When you retract your other falsehood (see above) that I uninhibitedly rejected Alford's book and apologize for that, I'll answer your simple question.

But my reply won't be simple and it may be several days before I post it. I've already wasted enough time this weekend on your posts.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Michael Hogan

[David G. Healy]

Let's be honest, Michael Hogan, you have not read Mimi Alford's book "Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John Kennedy and its Aftermath." (Her book is 198 pages long and well written.) Yet you feel uninhibited in rejecting it.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

The fact is, not one member of this forum knows whether or not Alford's account of her relationship with John Kennedy is entirely true. I don't know. It's impossible to know.

I do know that skepticism is both healthy and warranted, and I cast my lot in this topic with Jim DiEugenio, Larry Hancock, Don Jeffries, Dawn Meredith, Robert Charles-Dunne, and Greg Burnham. I've read

their posts for years and they've earned their insightful reputations here for good reasons. That's no slight of the other members I mentioned at the outset of this post. I respect their input on this thread, as well.

What I do reject are your unprovable claims and your apparent lack of critical thinking when it comes to certain topics.

Michael, I have a very simple question for you. Have you read Mimi Alford's book "Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John Kennedy and its Aftermath."

I have read the whole thing. Have you read it?

We have NO doubt you've read the Alford nonsense... just for the record: I suspect Michael Hogan has forgot more concerning the actual assassination record than you'll ever know about that same record.... that includes your titillation subject matter...

[Greg Burnham]

Well said, David. Good to see you posting, my friend--

[Guest Robert Morrow]

I finally found something about Mimi Alford's book "Once Upon a Secret" that I do not like: an endorsement of the farcical "Magic Bullet Theory."

"Mercifully, there was no footage of the actual shooting. That, of course, would come later. So network anchors such as Walter Cronkite resorted to showing photographs of the Kennedys smiling and laughing in the car, then the President clutching his throat as the second bullet passed through him and went on to wound Governor Connally. There was no image of the final shot, which shattered the President's head." [Mimi Alford, Once Upon a Secret, p. 133]

I doubt that Mimi wrote that passage herself; I bet it was added in by one of her "helpers" at Random House.

No credible JFK researcher believes in the "single bullet hitting both JFK and Connally" also known as the "Magic Bullet theory."

As a historical witness, I think that Mimi Alford is as pristine as it gets. Her book is filled with introspection and analysis on what keeping secret her affair with John Kennedy did to her life and her marriage. I think we can believe almost everything that Mimi says in relation to her dealings with John Kennedy.

Where she trips up - not surprisingly - is as a JFK researcher. I am curious to know if she wrote the passage above or whether a Random House gremlin did, subtly pushing the Big Lie about the JFK assassination.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Michael Hogan]

On February 26th, shortly after the release of Once Upon A Secret, Mimi Alford's book made a spectacular debut as #1 on The New York Times' Print and

E-Book Non-Fiction Bestseller list. In four weeks, it has dropped off the list.

This roller coaster ride was undoubtedly fueled by Alford's television appearances and the thousands of news and blog articles that cropped up simultaneously on the internet.

Nearly all of the articles mentioned Alford's spectacular sexual claims without any question. Dallek was often prominently cited, as if this lent authenticity to Alford's accounts.

This was tabloid journalism and it got a tabloid-like response from the public.

The Hardcover edition never got higher than #6 and will likely be off the list entirely by next week.

Probably before the end of the year, Alford's book will be available at AbeBooks.com for a dollar.

[Greg Burnham]

Probably before the end of the year, Alford's book will be available at AbeBooks.com for a dollar.

And it would be extremely expensive even at one tenth of that price!

[Bernice Moore]

and it is not even large enough to be a door stop, come summer...at least the BUGS is... b

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Here is a 1995 letter from Pierre Salinger to author, Jerry Kroth, author of "Conspiracy in Camelot":

"Dear Dr. Kroth, ... Kennedy pushed me to have mistresses, which convinced me he was having mistresses. During the campaign, I got side information from journalists (who in those days were not interested in publishing that information) that John F. Kennedy was having an affair with Pamela Turnure, who later became Jackie's press secretary. There were rumors in the White House about Fiddle and Faddle, but I did not get specific information. And, finally, no employee assigned to my office had an affair with the President. One did in the next term with Lyndon Johnson.

Best Regards,

Pierre Salinger (Source: Personal correspondence, October 20, 1995)"

[Kroth, "Conspiracy in Camelot, p. 206]

My take on this: JFK is asking Pierre Salinger to join in on the debauchery. Get a girl, come be like me, JFK! Kind of like when fat people want you to pig out with them. Or when someone offers you a joint because "everyone is doing it."

I don't think Mr. Salinger knew everything that was happening under his nose as far as JFK and the girls. We *know* Barbara Gammarekian was not not having an affair with JFK -just look at her picture and read her oral history as she seethes with jealousy and justifiable resentment - but it looks like Mimi Alford slipped by Salinger's attention.

"Conspiracy in Camelot:" http://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Camelot-Complete-Fitzgerald-Assassination/dp/0875862462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331444343&sr=1-1

Mimi Alford is in my opinion about as pristine and truthful of historical witness as you will find. Her book is a well-written, introspective look at how keeping her affair with JFK secret affected her in her life and marriage.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Tom Scully]

Here is a 1995 letter from Pierre Salinger to author, Jerry Kroth, author of "Conspiracy in Camelot":

"Dear Dr. Kroth, ... Kennedy pushed me to have mistresses, which convinced me he was having mistresses. During the campaign, I got side information from journalists (who in those days were not interested in publishing that information) that John F. Kennedy was having an affair with Pamela Turnure, who later became Jackie's press secretary. There were rumors in the White House about Fiddle and Faddle, but I did not get specific information. And, finally, no employee assigned to my office had an affair with the President. One did in the next term with Lyndon Johnson.

Best Regards,

Pierre Salinger (Source: Personal correspondence, October 20, 1995)"

[Kroth, "Conspiracy in Camelot, p. 206]

My take on this: JFK is asking Pierre Salinger to join in on the debauchery. Get a girl, come be like me, JFK! Kind of like when fat people want you to pig out with them. Or when someone offers you a joint because "everyone is doing it."

I don't think Mr. Salinger knew everything that was happening under his nose as far as JFK and the girls. We *know* Barbara Gammarekian was not not having an affair with JFK -just look at her picture and read her oral history as she seethes with jealousy and justifiable resentment - but it looks like Mimi Alford slipped by Salinger's attention.

"Conspiracy in Camelot:" http://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Camelot-Complete-Fitzgerald-Assassination/dp/0875862462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331444343&sr=1-1

Mimi Alford is in my opinion about as pristine and truthful of historical witness as you will find. Her book is a well-written, introspective look at how keeping her affair with JFK secret affected her in her life and marriage.

Robert, you were the only member who took me up on my offer to provide the contact info of Mimi Alford's former husband's brother. Can you understand why I doubt you are the ideal person to interview that man in the hope of ascertaining whether or not his now dead brother ever confided in him about Mimi's premarital activities?

Why is your threshold of proof so much lower in matters related to illicit sexual activity than in most other issues. How many people have you encountered who are as sure as you are that Chelsea Clinton was fathered by a mystery man? What proof can you share to persuade that it is reasonable to state such a thing with the certainty you often exhibit? Why are you so eager to accept what others say to you, or are quoted as saying, without any or rather slim, supporting evidence? Do you consider context? Would it not be more interesting if an interviewer with an open mind drew a statement from Mimi's ex-brother-in-law contradicting her contentions, or corroborating them, than if it was you, given your overall record, conducting the inquiry and reporting what you were told?

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Actually, no I can't, Tom.

Did it ever occur to you that just because you have *never heard* something or don't *know* it then it can't be true?

Chelsea Clinton is not the daughter of some "mystery man." Chelsea Clinton is the biological daughter of Webb Hubbell, NOT Bill Clinton. Just look at her big lips; big lips just like Webb Hubbell. Bill Clinton has thin lips.

Short of a DNA test, I say that with 99% certainty.

I am the nation's #1 anti-Clinton activist. I went to Amazon.com and bought literally EVER book written on the Clintons (used books). My bookshelve on them was 8 feet high and 4 feet wide with nothing but Clinton books. I did opposition research on them for 4 years, pretty much every day.

So if I have an opinion on the Clintons, it is at the very least an *educated* opinion.

Larry Nichols, a Clinton insider for 10 years, told author Melrose Larry Green that Chelsea was the daughter of Webb Hubbell. Larry Nichols also tells the story of Hillary coming into a meeting in 1978 of Clinton's inner circle. Bill said "Hill, I think I'm gonna run for governor." And without missing a beat, Hillary replies "I've got to get in Rose Law firm [i.e. make partner], I'm gonna ____ Hubbell."

Now, you have probabably never heard that story before.

Maybe you were just plain ignorant.

Hillary was screwing both Webb Hubbell and Vince Foster. You probably wouldn't know that because you have not spent 4 years putting the Clintons under a microscope and you don't have 300+ books on there.

So, Tom Scully, your uninformed smack talk does not impress me.

One has to understand just how dysfunctional the Clintons were. Bill was having literally hundreds of affairs, many one night stands, and multiple long term affairs.

Hillary was hopping the bed with Webb Hubbell, Vince Foster and Bill Clinton told Gennifer Flowers in graphic terms that Hillary had had more women than he had. Imagine the set of the Jerry Springer show for comparison.

I find it extremely revealing that in 1979 Bill found out that Hillary was pregnant by reading about it in the newspaper Arkansas Gazette which covered the press conference of Hillary’s doctor, not by being told by Hillary. [The Truth about Hillary, p.91] In what other “family” in America does the so-called “wife” (Hillary) hold a press conference to announce her pregnancy and not even tell her “husband” (Bill) that she is pregnant with what is presumed to be their first child? Unless, of course, the child is not Bill’s seed. Also, when Bill left the presidency in Jan, 2001, he pardoned everyone else, including Marc Rich and big time drug dealers, but he sure did not pardon Webb Hubbell.

Larry Nichols, a longtime close aide to Bill, swears that Hillary and Webb had an affair. Larry says Hillary interrupted a meeting of Bill and his advisors in 1978. Hillary said “Bill, what are you doing?” Bill replied “Hill, I’m gonna run for governor!” Hillary immediately replied “I gotta get in Rose … I’m gonna ___ Hubbell.” [Why the Clintons Belong in Prison, Melrose Larry Green, p.270] Hillary may have been referring to making partner at Rose where Hubbell was a partner.

Hillary and Bill are fond of saying that sex is mentioned over 500 times in the 473-page Starr Report, while Whitewater is not often mentioned. In Webb Hubbell’s 332-page book Webb uses the word “Hillary” 396 times. Webb says that he and Vince were “mesmerized” by Hillary and that “Bill wasn’t much of a presence in our lives.” [Hubbell, Friends in High Places, p.56]

Hillary says that “a burly ex-football player” gave her advice on how to hold Chelsea as a baby: “Think of a baby like a football and hold it tight.” [it Takes a Village, p. 8] Hillary is probably referring to her very close friend Webb who played as an offensive tackle for the Razorbacks. Hillary who probably mated with Webb to create Chelsea, may have seen burly Webb as a father figure similar to her dad Hugh Rodham, a tough guy Navy drill instructor who played football at Penn State.

On the night Bill lost the 1980 Arkansas’s governor’s race, Webb says he and Vince were watching Hillary on TV and “I think both of us wanted to wrap her in our arms and comfort her.” [Hubbell, p.86] (Hey, isn’t that Bill’s job – in theory?) When Bill was elected in 1992, Hillary tried to make Bill promise to appoint her very close friend Webb to the U.S. Supreme Court if a vacancy occurred. Hillary ordered Bill to give Webb an interim appointment as the chief justice of the Arkansas Supreme Court: “Well goddam it Bill he’s my friend, you can appoint him by law, so do it!” – said Hillary. [Crossfire, p.81] Webb got the Arkansas Supreme Court appointment.

After Bill was elected President in 1992, Hillary made sure that her very, very close friend (and probable father of Chelsea) Webb was made the #3 man at the Justice Department. The #3 spot at Justice is not subject to Senate confirmation, where unpleasant and embarassing details about the Hillary/Webb Hubbell/Chelsea relationship could come out.

In his book Webb makes a special point of mentioning Chelsea when he says how successful he felt looking out at her from the living room of his big house in the summer:

“On summer evenings, I could sip a drink in my big living room and look out at children- including the Fosters’ and the Clintons’, when Chelsea got big enough- bouncing happily on a trampoline in the shade of my big oak trees. Such a scene made me feel successful.” [Hubbell, Friends in High Places, p.84]

Go check out post #207 here for a Chelsea/Webb Hubbell image: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1157419/posts?q=1&&page=201

Edited March 11, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Greg Burnham]

Wow.

I thought Tom was being rather kind in his inquiry. Where was the "smack" talk in his post?

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Wow.

I thought Tom was being rather kind in his inquiry. Where was the "smack" talk in his post?

I have never said that Chelsea Clinton was the daughter of some "mystery person." I have said for years that Chelsea Clinton is the biological daughter of Webb Hubbell, who Hillary was having an affair with.

I have studied the Clintons long enough to have an informed opinion on this subject, which does not necessarily mean I am correct.

However, I would bet my house on it.

Hillary later was also having a very intense love affair with Vince Foster as per Clinton insiders and the state troopers.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Peter McGuire]

I am about half way through the book and enjoying the heck out of it. The better dead than red comment, however, makes me believe that while true on most accounts, this book is part of the posthumous assassination of Kennedy, in the run - up to the 50th anniversary of the assassination.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Peter McGuire

[Greg Parker]

I have to chime in with Jim on this folks. Let's display some critical skills one this one. There are so many inconsistencies its almost laughable. I mean do we really think JFK took time off during the missile crisis to visit an intern? Is that better dead than red thing reflected anywhere else in JFK's verbiage? So much of this appears totally derivative - plus why right now?

Didn't we just get blasted with the "anonymous" book abut the college kid being recruited to kill JFK...the detailed story of a CIA plot that he won't support in public but just let his lawyer submit to the publisher and film industry for him, the fiction story that's supposed to be really true and has already been optioned for a movie. As no doubt this will be.

-- OK, I'm done.. Larry

I remember when Gunilla von Post claimed in 1997 that she had been JFK's mistress, his supporters claimed it was part of a disinformation campaign. They then ignored the case when she provided his love letters.

http://www.dailymail...00-auction.html

John,

I won't ignore it. None of those letters, save the alleged last - reads like a love letter. it is not without its credibility problems.

"It will be complicated the way I feel now..." Is a bit clumsily written for someone of Kennedy's intellect and general love of language. It kind of reminds me how a European might write it...

What those who take innuendo, smear and rumor as actual evidence will ignore, is this:

http://reopenkennedy...6-fiddle-faddle

this

http://reopenkennedy...pporting-alford

this

http://reopenkennedy...uld-be-so-proud

and this

http://www.reopenken...ini-teapot.html

Edited June 16, 2012 by Greg Parker