Buell Wesley Frazier

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 6:54 PM, Robert Prudhomme said:

This certainly contradicts Buell Wesley Frazier's testimony to the Warren Commission:

"Mr. BALL - You didn't see the President's car at the time you heard the sound?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't.

Mr. BALL - But you stood right there, did you?

Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Stood right where I was.

Mr. BALL - And Mr. Shelley was still standing there?

Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

Mr. BALL - And also Billy Lovelady?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - The three of you didn't go any place?

Mr. FRAZIER - I believe Billy and them walked down toward that direction but I didn't. I just stood where I was. I hadn't moved at all.

Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?

Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?

Mr. BALL - A police officer.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.

Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?

Mr. FRAZIER - Right."

So, Wesley saw Oswald coming down Houston from the back dock a few minutes after it was over?  It would be interesting to see him try to reconcile these two different versions under direct questioning by a qualified attorney not committed to soft ball questions.  O from the back dock is interesting itself, as a statement, from Fraizer.  

All this leads to asking was he standing next to prayerman when it all went down?  

[James DiEugenio]

I hope everyone reads that link to Greg Parker's article about Frazier that David Josephs put up.

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t24-buell-wesley-frazier-linnie-mae-and-bill-randle

And there are even more problems with the Frazier/Linnie Mae story than Greg lists.

Edited January 29, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Trejo]

22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

... I never remembered reading the alleged initial statement by Wesley's sister Linnie Mae that the package Lee put in the back seat was 3' 6". 

I say allegedly because it was reported by Bookout and I've come to question the veracity of his notes of his interviews of Lee, and Fritz's copying them. 

Never read either speculation that maybe she was covering for her brother taking a gun to the TSBD as others posit on the thread.

Ron,

Yes, I do posit that Linne Mae Randle was covering for her brother, Wesley Buell Frazier.

I also posit that many Dallas FBI agents were part of the JFK Assassination , and that FBI agent James Bookhout fibbed when he said that Linnie said that the package was three feet, six inches long.   My evidence comes from the actual words of Linnie Mae herself:

Mrs. RANDLE. What I remember seeing is about this long, sir, as I told you it was folded down so it could have been this long. 
Mr. BALL. I see. You figure about 2 feet long, is that right? 
Mrs. RANDLE. A little bit more. 
Mr. BALL. A little more than 2 feet. 

In terms of relationship to a human body, 3'6" is a great deal of difference when compared with a little more than 2'.

Yet did she really pay that much attention to the package that she saw Lee Harvey Oswald carrying, as she looked out her kitchen window -- enough to measure the package by the inch?

I think that FBI agent Bookhout was trying to forge a case closer to a rifle.   I think that Linnie Mae was trying to forge a case to keep her brother out of the electric chair.   Plenty of fibs to go around.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Pat Speer]

FWIW, Randle never said she thought the bag was 3 feet 6 inches, she said she thought it was 36 inches. This was her making a guess. The FBI later re-created Oswald's movements with a "bag", after which she made a much more educated guess based upon the appearance of the "bag" she saw in "Oswald's" possession. She now said she thought the bag was 27 inches long. Significantly, this was the same length claimed by her brother after the FBI placed "bags" of different lengths and widths on the back seat of his car. Frazier, moreover, claimed as well that the bag he saw in Oswald's possession was but 6 inches wide.

Let's do the math.

Bag in the archives--- 38 by 8 1/2 inches (323 sq in)

Buell Frazier's estimate for the bag he saw on the back seat of his car.  27 by 6 inches (162 sq in, barely half as large as the bag in the archives)

Linnie Mae Randle's estimate for the bag she saw in Oswald's possession. 27 by 8 1/2 inches (229 1/2 sq in, barely 70% as large as the bag in the archives)

So, yeah, the bag supposedly carried by Oswald on the morning of the 22nd was twice as large as the bag recalled by one of the two witnesses to Oswald with a bag, and 40% larger than the bag recalled by the other. The eyewitness evidence is thereby fairly convincing that it wasn't the same bag.

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Pat Speer

[Paul Trejo]

19 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

FWIW, Randle never said she thought the bag was 3 feet 6 inches, she said she thought it was 36 inches. This was her making a guess. The FBI later re-created Oswald's movements with a "bag", after which she made a much more educated guess based upon the appearance of the "bag" she saw in "Oswald's" possession. She now said she thought the bag was 27 inches long. Significantly, this was the same length claimed by her brother after the FBI placed "bags" of different lengths and widths on the back seat of his car. Frazier, moreover, claimed as well that the bag he saw in Oswald's possession was but 6 inches wide.

Let's do the math.

Bag in the archives--- 38 by 8 1/2 inches (343 sq in)

Buell Frazier's estimate for the bag he saw on the back seat of his car.  27 by 6 inches (162 sq in, barely half as large as the bag in the archives)

Linnie Mae Randle's estimate for the bag she saw in Oswald's possession. 27 by 8 1/2 inches (231 1/2 sq in, barely 2/3 as large as the bag in the archives)

So, yeah, the bag supposedly carried by Oswald on the morning of the 22nd was twice as large as the bag recalled by one of the two witnesses to Oswald with a bag, and 50% larger than the bag recalled by the other. The eyewitness evidence is thereby fairly convincing that it wasn't the same bag.

Pat,

That's reasonable -- yet it omits the motive of keeping Buell Wesley Frazier out of the electric chair.

That's a powerful motive to fib.

The more likely scenario is that Frazier didn't really pay much attention to the size of the package -- he was more interested in sucking up to Lee Harvey Oswald.   Also, Linnie May didn't really pay much attention to the size of the package.    She saw a package -- was it a gift for Frazier -- finally some sort of payment for all these free rides?

It was only when the Dallas Police hauled Frazier into custody for questioning about transporting the murder weapon -- and giving him a lie detector test.  The Dallas Police were hot to uncover a Communist ring over near Ruth Paine's place.   Frazier lived down the street from Ruth Paine.   HAUL HIM IN!

Based on the pressures of the time -- it makes sense for the witness to "underestimate" the size of the package -- and for his sister to go along with it as far as she could.   Twenty-seven inches -- that's the maximum they'd allow.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Ray Mitcham]

Quote by PT.

" Twenty-seven inches -- that's the maximum they'd allow."

 

Maximum who would allow, Paul?

[Mark Knight]

Trejo's posts above show to what lengths he'll speculate. 

There is no evidence that Wes Frazier was "attracted" to the sullen and withdrawn Oswald. Implying that there was something untoward in Frazier's behaviour for hauling his sometimes-neighbor to and from work is despicable, even for Trejo.

The truth is, Frazier owned a .303 Enfield rifle himself, IIRC. Since the reports were that JFK was shot with a .30-caliber rifle, when Frazier was questioned by the DPD he was a legitimate suspect...even with the Carcano already in custody (and/or a Mauser, depending on whether you believe the multiple reports of one being found).

If Wes Frazier was trying to save his own a** from the electric chair, why was he doing his best to DEFEND Oswald? Because he was afraid of being charged as an accessory to murder? Frazier was no more an accessory for taking Oswald to work than a certain cab driver and bus driver we're accessories in Oswald's alleged escape.

Trejo knows that. IMHO, Trejo owes Wes Frazier an apology, unless of until he can prove his speculation is true.

[Joe Bauer]

I had never heard nor read about Buell Wesley Frazier having physical yearnings for Lee Oswald before Paul's post.

Wonder where Paul came up with that theory or proposition.

I "have" read a few reports of speculations about Ruth Paine having such for Marina.

Doesn't seem like Oswald had any more interest in B.W. Frazier other than getting free rides although my common sense tells me he appreciated Frazier for this and also Frazier's innocent and rural upbringing unsophisticated goodness, friendliness and generosity.

Frazier was the opposite of many of the characters Oswald interacted with in N.O. and later Dallas. Educated but nefarious agenda men, hot tempered Cubans, George DeM., Michael Paine, etc.   Although maybe David Lewis and his wife Anna were rare exceptions.

Many "Lone Nut" proponents used to love suggesting Lee Oswald wasn't intelligent enough to be a part of any conspiracy on a level of the JFK assassination. That's ridiculous of course.

However, in a good and actually complimentary way, B.W.Frazier could never be part of a similar level and type conspiracy because of his unsophisticated yet much more moral, decent and well meaning makeup. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

For what it's worth and only because it runs parallel to the uncomfortable Frazier toward Oswald sexual suggestion post by Paul.

Ruth Paine (left) and Marina Oswald in 1963

Speculation of a lesbian connection to JFK’s death also persists to this day, though there’s a similar lack of supporting evidence.

At the time of JFK’s death, his accused killer, Oswald, was separated from his wife, Marina.

Marina resided in suburban Dallas with Ruth Paine, a Quaker woman who was separated from her husband, Michael.

Both women had two children, who also resided in the Paine home, while Michael resided in a nearby apartment.

Paine and Marina met at a party in February 1963 and began a brief friendship.

They lived together for about two months, up until Nov. 22,1963, when JFK was assassinated.

Ruth never charged Marina rent, noting the benefits she received from the friendship, including learning Russian, which Marina spoke proficiently.

In his 1967 best-seller “The Death of a President,” author William Manchester repeatedly insinuated that Ruth and Marina were in a lesbian relationship.

Manchester quoted selectively from letters between the women, which were affectionate but could hardly be considered love letters.

 

In one letter, Marina wrote to Paine: “I kiss and hug you and the children.”

 

“I love you Marina and want to live with you,” Paine said in a particularly effusive reply.

 

Manchester also claimed that Paine intended to take Marina to a Planned Parenthood clinic, for advice on achieving sexual satisfaction apart from their husbands. But his book provided no documentation for this claim.

On the evening of Nov. 21, 1963, Oswald unexpectedly visited Paine and Marina at the Paine home, which is now a museum.

During the visit, Marina repeatedly rebuffed his entreaties to “quit Ruth” and live with him, according to Manchester’s book.

“Again and again he repeated that her preference for Ruth was unbearable for him,” wrote Manchester.

Inconsolable due to Marina’s rejection, Oswald went “mad” and shot JFK the next day from a sixth-floor window at his workplace, according to Manchester.

Oswald himself was killed by Jack Ruby two days later, proclaiming his innocence to the end.

Manchester’s book was billed as the definitive account of JFK’s death, partly because it was commissioned by Jacqueline Kennedy, though she later dismissed it as “tasteless and distorted.”

His insinuations of a lesbian relationship between Marina and Paine remain firmly entrenched in the minds of many Americans.

But extensive government investigations haven’t yielded a scintilla of supporting evidence, and both women have consistently denied being in a lesbian relationship.

For his part, Lee told police he was grateful for the assistance that Paine gave to his family. He described it as a “nice arrangement,” while he struggled to get on his feet financially.

In a 1974 People Magazine interview, Marina said, “They called me lesbian, because I had a friendship with Ruth Paine, who isn’t that way at all. People are quick to applynames. I assure you I am normal.”

Marina has also repeatedly expressed her belief that Oswald didn’t kill JFK.

In 1996 on “The Oprah Winfrey Show,” Marina said Oswald had “absolutely nothing” to do with JFK’s assassination.

Marina’s denials apparently didn’t hold any water with staunch anti-LGBT psychiatrist Charles Socarides.

In 1978, he gave a lecture about homosexuality at Lankenau Medical Center in Wynnewood, Pa., during which he repeated Manchester’s canard that Marina’s lesbian relationship with Paine drove Oswald to kill JFK.

When informed of Socarides’ lecture, the late LGBT pioneer Barbara Gittings dismissed it as yet another attempt by Socarides to cast homosexuality in a negative light.

Ironically, Gittings was friendly with Paine, and Gittings’ name appears in the exhibits released by the Warren Commission in 1964.

Ruth and Gittings sang in a madrigal choral group in Philadelphia, before Paine and Michael relocated to Texas in 1959.

Gittings described Paine as a very kind and generous person, who never gave any indication of being lesbian or bisexual.

After Oswald was killed, Gittings added, she felt sorry for the newly widowed Marina, and sent money to Paine.

“I didn’t even realize Ruth knew Marina,” Gittings continued. “But I knew Ruth lived in the Dallas area. And she’s such a caring person, I figured she’d find a way to get the money to Marina.”

Today, Marina, 73, lives in suburban Dallas with Kenneth Porter, an electrician whom she married in 1965.

Ruth, 82, divorced Michael in 1970, and she never remarried.

She lives in a Quaker retirement village in California and has a male companion in her life.

While we may never know who killed JFK, speculation about an LGBT connection to his assassination should be put to rest once and for all.

 

[Tom Hume]

On March 27, 2013, referring to Wesley Frazier, John Dolva asked this question on this very thread:

“Can someone ask him if he knows who James Branum is/was?”

John asked this question at least ten times on various threads (without response), and he was interested in an anomaly he found that appears to be associated with Buell Wesley Frazier’s written statement to the Dallas Police. 

Below are five consecutive links. The first four are Wesley’s written statement, and attached, without explanation apparently, is a fifth gif, something that might be called the “James Branum Doodle”.
 

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0124-001.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0124-002.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0124-003.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0124-004.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0124-005.gif

Did Lee Oswald give this doodle to Wesley? Was it found in the backseat of Wesley’s car? What is it, and why did the Dallas Police think it important enough to photograph it and attach it to Wesley’s written statement (if that’s indeed what happened)?

I’ll rephrase John Dolva’s old and somewhat ubiquitous question: If the opportunity arises, could someone please ask Wesley Frazier about this doodle?

Tom
 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Tom Hume

[Paul Trejo]

On 2/3/2018 at 1:52 PM, Mark Knight said:

Trejo's posts above show to what lengths he'll speculate. 

There is no evidence that Wes Frazier was "attracted" to the sullen and withdrawn Oswald. Implying that there was something untoward in Frazier's behaviour for hauling his sometimes-neighbor to and from work is despicable, even for Trejo.

The truth is, Frazier owned a .303 Enfield rifle himself, IIRC. Since the reports were that JFK was shot with a .30-caliber rifle, when Frazier was questioned by the DPD he was a legitimate suspect...even with the Carcano already in custody (and/or a Mauser, depending on whether you believe the multiple reports of one being found).

If Wes Frazier was trying to save his own a** from the electric chair, why was he doing his best to DEFEND Oswald? Because he was afraid of being charged as an accessory to murder? Frazier was no more an accessory for taking Oswald to work than a certain cab driver and bus driver we're accessories in Oswald's alleged escape.

Trejo knows that. IMHO, Trejo owes Wes Frazier an apology, unless of until he can prove his speculation is true.

Mark,

Actually there is ample evidence that Buell Wesley Frazier was attracted in a romantic way to Lee Harvey Oswald -- and the evidence is right in Frazier's WC testimony.    I posted that last year on thisForum, did you miss it?   Would you like to see it again?

Now -- if Buell Wesley Frazier should announce that he never was gay in his life -- and denies my reading of his WC testimony, then I will -- in respect of common courtesy -- publicly apologize to Buell Wesley Frazier, of course.

I agree that my reading of his WC testimony is speculative, because the situation is only hinted at, instead of directly stated -- but n 1963, nobody would directly admit he was homosexual -- not General Walker, not J. Edgar Hoover -- nobody.

We live in very different times -- thanks in part to JFK.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited February 5, 2018 by Paul Trejo

[Pat Speer]

Having talked to Frazier a number of times about his friendship with Oswald, and having heard him speak publicly about his friendship with Oswald, I can say that there is nothing to Paul's speculation there was more to their friendship (a term which is stretching the facts a bit) than meets the eye. Frazier was a country boy, but he was curious about the world and wished he were more educated. He admired Oswald for a couple of reasons. One is that Oswald seemed worldly and educated--he'd traveled, and he read the paper every day. And two is that he had a gentle demeanor, whereby he would explain politics to those with an interest (including Frazier) and take the time to play with kids.

In short, Frazier thought Oswald was a good guy.

That doesn't mean he was in love with him.

[James DiEugenio]

That's interesting Tom.

I had never seen that.  I don't like to admit this, but after all of these years in this case, I have never heard the name James Branum.

[Tom Hume]

Hi Jim,

I currently think that “James Branum” is not the name of a real person, but part of a very large steganographic puzzle, a “Rebus” puzzle designed to relay information. On and off, I’ve been working on this puzzle for a couple of years, and I believe I’ve got pieces of it. If I ever finish the puzzle, I will surely post my conclusions. 

Tom
 

[Paul Trejo]

12 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Having talked to Frazier a number of times about his friendship with Oswald, and having heard him speak publicly about his friendship with Oswald, I can say that there is nothing to Paul's speculation there was more to their friendship (a term which is stretching the facts a bit) than meets the eye. Frazier was a country boy, but he was curious about the world and wished he were more educated. He admired Oswald for a couple of reasons. One is that Oswald seemed worldly and educated--he'd traveled, and he read the paper every day. And two is that he had a gentle demeanor, whereby he would explain politics to those with an interest (including Frazier) and take the time to play with kids.

In short, Frazier thought Oswald was a good guy.

That doesn't mean he was in love with him.

Pat,

I'm impressed that you have a direct line to Buell Wesley Frazier -- one of the final remaining WC witnesses.   I hope you can publish something about Frazier one day.   In any case, would you kindly comment on this part of his WC testimony?

Mr. BALL - Did Shelly introduce you to him or did you go up and shake hands with him?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; he didn't. I remember, I knew, you know that he was going to be coming to work so naturally I hadn't been there very long, you know, living in Dallas and so I wanted to make friends with everybody I could, because you know yourself friendship is something you can't buy with money and you always need friends, so I went up and introduced and he told me his name was Lee and I said "We are glad to have you."  We got talking back and forth and he come to find out I knew his wife was staying there at the time with this other woman, and so I thought he would go out there and I said, "Are you going to be going home this afternoon?"  And he told me then, he told me that he didn't have a car, you know, and so I told him. I said, "Well, I live out there in Irving,"- I found out he lived out there and so I said, "Any time you want to go just let me know."  So I thought he would go home every day like most men do but he told me no, that he wouldn't go home every day and then he asked me could he ride home say like Friday afternoon on weekends and come back on Monday morning and I told him that would be just fine with me.  I told him if he wanted a ride any other time just let me know before I go off and leave him because when it comes to quitting time some of these guys, you know, some of them mess around the bathroom, and some of them quit early, and some of them like that, and some leave at different times than others.  But I said from talking to him then, I say, he just wanted to ride home on weekends with me and I said that was fine.

Mr. BALL - Did he say at that time he was living in Dallas, he had a room in Dallas?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; he did. He had an apartment.

When I read that testimony by Buell Wesley Frazier, I had to read it again -- then again.   The language for 1964 appeared odd to me, and then I checked to see whether Frazier was ever married or had children, or even a girl friend.  Maybe I'm mistaken, but I found none.   I'm not a homophobe -- far from it -- but I think it is not only interesting, but relevant if Frazier was attracted or hopeful about Lee Harvey Oswald -- it could certainly help to explain his behavioral motivation on 11/22/1963.

If I'm mistaken, I'll retract my opinion publicly.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited February 5, 2018 by Paul Trejo